Xoticpc.com v. Powernotebooks.com

Some posts have been deleted in this thread. Again, this forum is not for flame wars.

If there continue to be harassing posts, I ask that anyone involved report the posts rather than fuel the flames.

 

It wasn't my intention to cause any strife between Xotic PC and PNB - I just have never had two great companies to purchase from at once. I didn't know if there was any reason to pick one or the other.

Of course, now that I have been told about the Force and the Power Pro models - I have no idea what to do and I'm even more confused than before.

I suppose it's better to have more information than less, though.

I just wanted a portable laptop with the ability to play Morrowind Oblivion, which I think the Sager 2096 does really well, but this GDDR3 memory stuff has me more confused.

 

I priced them out with the same components, except for the GDDR3 video card and the POwer Pro 15:3 came out to 300 dollars more. I am not sure that is worth it in my case, as the latest game I plan to play on my PC is Morrowind Oblivion (everything else is on my 360).

I was wondering if anyone could explain to me, however, why on the Sager 2096, Vista Premium 64 bit edition is only 97 dollars (and comes with the 32 bit CD as well). But on the Power Pro 15:3 it is $120 and doesn't come with the 32 bit CD?

 

You'd have to ask Paladin44, or someone else at PNB, that question to get a sure answer, but my guess is that it probably has to do with different licensing schemes from Microsoft - one coming through Sager, which probably distributes more licenses than PNB, and one coming through PNB.

 

megaman001 - this is because Sager has a special contract with Microsoft on supplying 32/64 Bit. (also special pricing). The Licenses used on the Force/PowerPro are standard OEM copies to which you only get 32 or 64.

 

Oh, okay - that makes sense. I think my decision is pretty much made for the Sager 2096 as I think the system will be more than adequate for my needs.

This thread can be locked unless there is more discussion to be had on XoticPC v. PNB - there are plenty of threads that are already talking about the 2096.

 

Since powernotebooks has a physical presence in california (factory) does this mean that sales tax will be charged to orders shipped to locations in CA? I just noticed sales tax being calculated on orders to counties within Nevada.

 

I've worked with Justin at Xotic for almost a month now during my research into various laptops, and he has been a great help. I have also spoken to Donald a few times and he was very professional and courteous.

I personally will be purchasing through Xotic once the new MSI is released due to the amount of time Justin has spent helping me. Other than that, both companies are beyond reputable, with identical pricing.

 

@fire268

No, PowerNotebooks.com does not have a physical presence in California, only Sager does.

We do not collect California sales tax because all shipments to California are shipped from Nevada, not California.

 

Oh of course, duh! I really have to start paying more attention. Thanks for the clarification. I keep thinking Sager = all the resellers. Sorry about that.

 

Who exactly makes the FORCE 3515? I was thinking of getting a NP2096 because I've heard a lot of good things about Sager. So I'm wondering if the quality of the FORCE 3515 is comparable to Sager's.

 

The Force 3551 and the PowerPro P 15:3 are both built on the MSI 1651 barebones.

When comparing quality of one model and another, you have to be specific with the model numbers you want compared...not just the brand.

These models for example have virtually identical build quality to the Sager NP2096 but as has been posted several times in these forums the PowerPro P 15:3 and Force 3551 are much more feature rich than the Sager NP2096, PowerPro P 12:15 and Force 3310, all of which are built on the Compal JHL90 barebones.

 

it took me a while to decide on 2096(1.5k) then i saw the FORCE 3551, Built on MSI-1651, (1.62k) ... now im lost again
i can spare another $100 to get the Force if it will be as well built as the sager2096 ... or just plainly the sagers...i havnt done much reading about the Force/MSI unlike the sager w/c have a great number of followers here.

 

The build quality on the JHL90 and the MS-1651 are identical, when both of these barebone models are configured with the same specs there should be very little difference in the price. ($20-$30 difference) with the current pricing available. Definetly worth the difference to go to DDR3 VGA.

 

^-^
Well, not exactly when you compare the warranties.

The Sager NP2096 comes with a standard 1 Year Parts and Labor Warranty with West Coast business hours support Monday Through Friday.

The PowerPro P 15:3 and Force 3551 come with a Standard 3 Year Parts and Labor Warranty w/Next Business Day Shipping paid both ways, plus Lifetime DOMESTIC 24/7 Toll Free Telephone Tech Support.

 

good to hear that, thanks.

anyway here is the pricing with the specs

FORCE 3551 (Built on MSI-1651) PRE ORDER=$1629
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050) `
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- -Intel® P8600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.40GHz w/3MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 9600M GT DDR3 DX10
- - 4,096MB (Corsair, Kingston, Major Brand) DDR2 800 (2 SODIMMs) Dual Channel Memory
- Standard Matte Bllack with Silver Trim
- - Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software
- - 320GB 3GB/S SATA II 5400RPM Hard Drive
- Internal 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Carying Case Optional (Select if desired)
- Smart Li-ion Battery (6-Cell)
- -Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- 3 Year Complete Care Full Parts / Labor Warranty - Next Business Day Shipping - Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Tech Support

+$69 if fingerprint reader is to be added

Sager NP2096 Custom Laptop (Built on the Compal JHL90) PRE ORDER=$1493
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050) `
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® P8600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.40GHz w/3MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 9600M GT DDR2 DX10
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 800 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- Standard Finish
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 320GB 5400RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- Internal 3-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Carying Case Optional (Select if desired)
- Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- ~Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- Sager 3 Year Parts & Labor Warranty, Lifetime Sager Toll Free Support

 

Take a minute and go back to Post #20 to see the rest of the significant differences between these two models.

Also, keep in mind the 24/7 support vs. the West Coast business hour support Monday through Friday with the Sager...and the Next Business Day shipping paid both ways vs. 3 day shipping with the Sager.

 

24/7 posting too! Wow. I just got off playing about 10 rounds of RFOM online and you guys are still at it!!! Hard core man, hard core!

 

Something to do after the dinner break...and of course we are on Pacific Time so it isn't even 10 PM yet.

Hard core?? Of course!

 

thanks.
so reliability wise its ok to get the MSI 1651?

another problem

i have to set a limit here($$$) otherwise ill probably end up buying a laptop with the price close to an np8660=))

 

I have some specific questions about pro 15:3 and force 3551. Would Mr. Justin or Mr Donald help me to answer this important question plz?

first;
Would pls post the picture of the back of PRO 15:3 and Force 3551? I need it for choosing better cooling pad for specific system either Zalman nc 2000 or NZXT cryo LX.

second;
If I order the vista ultimate OS 64 bit, will you include the 64 and 32 bit CD in the package? I really need them, in case if some games are not really good in 64 bit environment than I have to reboot in 32 bit by myself

third;
since I dont know the model and type of your battery? Is it any other battery fit in to Pro 15:3 and Force 3551, which have better cell inside or longer usage? such as if (just if) Sager 2096 battery can fit in the Pro 15:3 and Force 3551.

Thank you very much in advance for taking time to answer my questions.

 

Yes, the build quality of both models is virtually identical.

 

Any word yet on the screens? Its the one thing I am really hoping for on the 15:3 (great screen). Id love a LED screen but I doubt its offered.

 

I'm also almost sold on the Power Pro 15:3 over the Sager 2096 - could anyone provide photos of the system from all sides? The stock photos don't really show much.\

EDIT: Also, please someone tell me if that Power Pro symbol is just photoshopped in and doesn't actually appear on the notebook? That really ruins its sleek look.

 

Unfortunately those are the only pictures available at this time. We will post more as soon as they become available.

Did you look at the pictures on our website?

 

Hmm, I did - it sure looks nice.

Is there anyway to confirm that the HDMI out supports dual audio and video output like the HDMI cable on my 360? I've heard some disturbing things about some HDMI ports only outputting video.

 

It is photoshopped but there is a groove there so a logo would have to be put in to make it flat. Ask donald or justin if their logo is flat when inserted.

 

The HDMI port supports both audio and video.

The label is PhotoShop'd into the picture.

Our labels are domed and fill the indent in the LCD cover and LCD frame on the inside. If you don't like them you can easily remove them and replace them with something else. If you don't replace them you will have the naked indent in the LCD cover and the LCD frame on the inside where it is designed for the installation of the OEM labels.

 

Paladin44, your attention to detail is rapidly gaining my trust.

Now I just need to find the extra 400 bucks or so to get the Power Pro 15:3.

 

Paladin44, can you confirm that the HDMI supports both audio and visual in the Sager 2096 as well? I've thought about it, and I don't think I need the upgrades in the Power Pro 15:3 that much.

 

Megaman001, I'm certain that the HDMI supports both Audio and Video. HDMI w/o audio is basically a DVI port (technically speaking) from what I know.

 

Yes, HDMI supports both audio and video...it will also support data. If it were otherwise...it would not be HDMI.

Where are you seeing any HDMI that does not support at least audio and video?

 

It's an anecdotal thing, a friend of mine mentioned it was sometimes common that video card HDMI outs were just DVI signal. Then I googled "HDMI laptop audio" and saw a lot of threads and questions about people who couldn't get audio across with the HDMI signal.

 

I thought I would come on here and correct this, it seems as though the new student discount for xoticpc is $25 off. If you use it with the cash discount, the cash discount is now only 2%. When I ordered, it came out to be a little cheaper if I chose not to use the student discount lol.
So this means that powernotebooks and xoticpc should be almost the exact same. I dont know what powernotebooks student discount is and if you can combine it with the 3% cash discount, but I would assume it would be competitive to xoticpc's. I will let Donald inform us about how the discounts work and if they can be used at the same time if he feels that the explanation is needed. Sorry for me earlier posts mistakes.

 

Like megaman, I read this thread wanting to buy the sager 2096, now I am just as confused.

Sager? Force? Power P??

 

Take a few minutes and call all 3. Then do business with the one with which you feel most comfortable.

 

Thank you for this thread. All the help is wonderful

 

This is not my area but I will give a shot at clearing up. Do you understand ODM vs OEM? Original Design Manufacturer vs Original Equipment Manufacturer.

ODM's are the ones that make and assemble either partially or completely that most have never heard of. The OEM is the company that you know of, the brand name so to speak.

Sager at least with their popular gaming models are the OEM they get those from Clevo or Compal then slap their name on. They sell direct but also thru resellers. Looks like PNB and XoticPC are the resellers in that situation? Even though PNB and Xotic may actually finish assembly of end product. That looks like licensing restrictions and Clevo (not Compal) does not deal direct with PNB or Xotic (guesses).

Power P and Force look like PNB and Xotic respectively OEM offerings. They may have more but I see them getting barebones from ODM's Compal and MSI. Completing assembly and selling under their brands. Making Power P and Force the OEM.

Over 80% of notebooks originate from Taiwanese companies. Of the ODM's Quanta is the largest with an estimated 33% share of the world notebook market. Have you ever heard of them? Compal is the second largest ODM.

So look at the three you mentioned decide what fits your likes/dislikes and budget. I find it amusing the people who must have what they consider brand name so they go buy a notebook made in the same plant as one they would never consider. Many times paying more for less.

You are now in the high performance notebook zone. Much like car and motorcycle enthusiasts. We know the best not just the biggest. We honor and respect performance and quality, are not tricked by fancy marketing. We my friend have just a little bit too much time on our hands.

 

I have to admit. After finding this place I feel like I have slipped into the Rabbit's Hole of notebook enthusiasm. I had no idea such powerful rigs were possible, or even affordable.

It's like I just opened my eyes for the first time and stared directly at the sun - it's a little disorienting.

 

I like, I like...well stated..I sorta feel the same way.

I have been looking at Sager computers lately as a future notebook that I might be interested in; and I've come to realize (from NBR) that XoticPc and PowerNTBooks are the top two Sager resellers out there...So now from this thread I don't even have to ask how reputable they are again...as I've seen the posts for myself.

Okay, some questions/concerns I had was with this "dead pixel" story. Is this that big of a problem? Is this especially or specifically a known issue w/ Sager models and not Asus/Compal/MSI notebooks? How come i've never heard of this issue before w/ notebook manufacturers like HP? Is it worth it to spend the extra $ to safe guard against the dead pixel problem?

All responses welcomed!

 

My understanding is that Dead Pixels are pretty much a possibility with any LCD screen - regardless of whether or not it is a notebook, a desktop monitor, a large HDTV, a DS, PSP, etc. etc.

I personally don't think the Zero Dead Pixel Policy is worth it. Though, I'm getting a Personal Article Policy under my Renter's Insurance with State Farm, which will cover everything - so your own personal mileage may vary.

 

^--^
memgaman001 is correct in that Dead pixels and stuck sub-pixels are a result of LCD technology. It is much less of a concern today than it used to be because the technology has improved so much. There are 5,292,000 sub-pixels on a WSXGA+ screen (1680x1050x3), so a few stuck sub-pixels is really quite understandable. The defective pixel policy for Sager, PowerPro and Force computers is the best in the industry. If you have more than 5 dead pixels or stuck sub-pixels it is a warranty issue and will be replaced. If you have fewer than this and decide return it for exchange, there is no guarantee that you will get a screen with no dead pixels or stuck sub-pixels.

Therefore knowing this you would have to decide if a tiny little dot of light (stuck sub-pixel) or a tiny black spot (dead pixel) would bother you enough to make it worth buying the warranty.

Another thing to consider is that if you bundle it with an extended warranty it only costs $100 instead of buying it stand alone for $200.

As for your Renter's Insurance policy, you should check that because I doubt very much that it would cover a defective pixel situation.

 

^^ As long as this thread has gone free form. Donald I have a related question. Are you more likely to get dead/stuck pixels on higher resolution (same size screen)? Beyond the greater numerical explanation? Or does the continued reduction in pixel size for example aggravate the situation?

 

I don't think screen resolution increases or decreases the probability that there will more or less dead pixels or stuck sub-pixels.

The only real difference is the higher the resolution (e.g. at WUXGA you have 6,912,000 sub-pixels) the smaller the sub-pixels are so even if a few are permanently lit, or "stuck", they will be less noticeable.

 

^^^This woulda been my next question....

Thanks for the answers guys!

 

YAAY! Free-form posting! I call shotgun!


BTW, anyone have any idea how the relative incidence of dead pixels on the equipment supplied by Sager compares with that of the other major brands (hint, hint) such as _HP, _Sony, _Dell, etc?

 

^--^
I don't know about that not having anything to do with those other brands, but what I can say is their warranty replacement policy requires MUCH higher defective pixel/sub-pixel counts before they will do anything about it.

Did I mention they are MUCH HIGHER?

 

"Their" being a reference to the other, non-Sager, major brands, correct? And just how much higher?

 

I remember Hypersonic or someone else has specially designated areas that are exempt from warranty/repair, like a 2" border around the edge or even bigger.

 

Paladin44, I am having trouble deciding between the Sager 2096 and the Power Pro 15:3 - as is probably already evident, since I've gone back and forth a few times in this thread.

Can you give me a brief run down on both models, like what barebones they are based on?

Right now I want to lean towards the Power PRo 15:3 because it looks better and the battery doesn't stick out the back, as it does with the 2096.

I'm leaning to the Sager 2096 because of the price and the fact it's Sager.

I need you to convince me that Power Pro isn't any less reliable than Sager.

EDIT: Also, could you post any real life pictures of the Power Pro 15:3 you have around the office - or maybe of one made for someone else? I looked at the photos you have hosted on PNB and you just can't tell much from them.