Clevo Overclocker's Lounge

Aight off to buy 10 Gbit NIC's
I have been using my NAS over standard Gigabit, Since my NAS is self built it should be easy enough to implement in both the NAS and my desktop's.

But yeah i really didnt know they made Multi Channel linking PnP, thanks for that
Ill see if i can jimmy up a power supply for the TB3 card and maybe test out a NIC with the DM3.

 

I just wanted something simple so I just bought one, but it didn't have a 10/20 or 40gbps link. Only 4 1gbp ports for link agg. Which is great for multi lan traffic, but not so much for a single link of 4 gbps.
MCL only works with certain versions of Windows 7/8/8.1/10 just like nic teaming. So I'm told.

 

I wonder how long it will take for them to be able to integrate it, just had a look at thunderbolt to 10GBe and ouch.

 

Interesting, Yeah i know i can get it to work in Linux manually. But if it works PnP for most of the part in Windows well worth it. Because i have a **** ton of caches i read from and write to on my NAS.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8745/asrock-announces-x99-wse10g-dual-10gbaset-and-quad-x16
Unless of course you are talking about our laptops.
@bloodhawk I think even Mac OSX can do it.

After testing that out. I'm inclined to move my main stuff to 10 gigabit and running thunderbolt cables all over the place doesn't seem really the way to go.
Remember when I did that test a while back. Burst rate of damn near 3 gigabytes for the first 3 seconds.

 

Well integrated into the chipset proper so it's a lot easier to put into all devices. Or will they just not bother?

 

I was referring to Desktops mainly, with trying to test it with the DM3 later on.

Yeah i still get those using a 20Gbps cable, i do a lot of data transferring still between the desktop and the DM3. And over TB3 the transfers are freaking fast.

 

I think they will in the next few years, but if they bring down the cost of Thunderbolt to 10 GBe adapter....That might hit us rather sooner than later.

They now have 40 gbps a bit longer....
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...=aps&field-keywords=40+gbps+thunderbolt+cable

I don't understand?

 

Nice, might grab one sometime in the future if i decide to use eGPU's with the DM1.

I referring to the Anandtech link. And testing something similar with my x99 desktop. Curious if MCL would be able to pair up 2 x 1 Gbps connections.

 

I'm using this because this board only has a single nic.


Like @Papusan Time to overclock the internet on a budget.

 

Which one is that exactly?
Im trying find second hand - Intel E10G42BT X520-T2's.

 

If you wait a day you can buy this one from me. Im done testing now I want to go faster.
I bought it like a little over a week ago i think. Let me check.

Edit. April 1st is when it showed up.

 

Gotcha, im looking for 2 though. How much does that one cost normally ?

 

I got this one because I wanted an Intel card and not try to break the bank until I figured out if it worked or not.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003A7LKOU/ref=psdc_13983711_t1_B003A7WPB2

What are you trying to do?

 

Ah im also actually looking to jump over to 10Gbps. Going to MCL out with the 1Gbps ports already present on the desktop board first, since its an Intel NIC (not sure if 2 different ones or not, but both are 1 Gbps). Will let you if i change my mind.

 

The nics have to be the same else you will only get one link.
You can use nic teaming, but you need a capable router with lag/lacp setup. Which is what I tried first.

And just for kicks I just tried two different nics and it does not work. Both Intel.

 

Yeap, thats why trying to find a pair. I tried this with my friends system a while back and didnt quite realize why it wasn't working properly. Now it makes sense.

My NAS has a single 1 Gbps port, desktop has 2. Might as well get 2 x 10Gbps NIC's and set those up first.

 

@bloodhawk
You going for a crossover or a 10 GBe switch?

It's in the picture on the other page.

 

Crossover. I use the Dm3 over TB3 Networking with the desktop.


btw. the image on the other post was not loading for some reason.

 

Okay, cool.

Intel Ethernet Server Adapter I340-T4 1Gbps RJ-45 Copper
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003A7LKOU/ref=psdc_13983711_t1_B003A7WPB2

I might have went that way if my nas had thunderbolt, but then that nas is doing a whole bunch of other things as well. And all my machines need to be able to access it.

 

Yeah my main goal is to be able to move and read/write caches to the NAS from my Xeon Workstation and the Desktop faster than i can right now.
Data transfer between the DM3 and other systems is just games and the odd uncompressed RAW videos. 90% of the heavy transfers are between the other 3 systems, if this works works well ill move the NIC to the workstation and then ill invest in a decent switch plus another NIC to include the desktop in the loop as well.

But thanks a bunch for mentioning MCL compatibility with Windows, i always thought i was a headache to set it up with the latest OS', with the reading i have done all day, i doesnt seem as complicated as it used to be.

 

Wow, I missed a longgggg conversation about windows today.

I'll chime in my little bit.

Spoiler: book

My main problems with W10 are solely that it tends to do what it wants rather than what I want, usually without telling me that it's doing so. And some things just don't work.

My key is an 8.1 Pro key that was tied to my M$ account. I use a local account on the PC. I was testing something for @Mr. Fox and I had to download a game from the store to do so, to use the UWP platform. Aside from the fact that I never got downloading to work properly despite trying almost every fix I found online except reinstalling my OS entirely, the main thing is I needed to sign into the store using my M$ account to download things, obviously.

Next reboot? It logged me into my M$ account in windows without asking or telling me it was going to do this. I actually was a bit scared since I have a long time before my screen turns on at boot, and my second screen was not turning on first like it usually does. Lo and behold, when my main screen turned on I had to enter a password for my M$ account, and my full name was displayed as my account name. Y'know. Without my permission, at all.

Next, OneDrive, which I don't use or care for, was turned on because I once signed into a M$ account on the PC, even though I left it off before. Even when I changed my account to use the local account in Control Panel, it was still on. And my hot links to pictures and whatnot went to a different area on the PC linked to OneDrive, and I had to disable OneDrive using group policy editing to get it to work again.

But when I disabled OneDrive, my clock stopped working so I had to reboot again. There was literally an empty space between my language and the edge of my system tray.

Also, when Windows Update is running, the OS attempts to install GPU drivers it feels like (changing hotfix ones to game ready ones) and changing my wifi/bluetooth/etc drivers as it sees fit. There was no way to turn this off, and when on one install (WITHOUT adjusements) the defer updates option broke, it simply forced the update on me as it wished, and I had to do a clean install. In fact, we tried an in-place upgrade from 10 Pro to 10 Pro and for exactly 15 seconds after booting I could tick "defer updates" but after this, it grayed out itself again. So a fresh install was definitely needed.

I know there is an option to block driver updates without use of a 3rd party tool (and that third party tool needs to be re-run whenever a new update shows up, mind you) in the Creator's Update, but I'm going to wait until business branch gets that. I've heard of and seen a few bugs so I'm fine with waiting for it.

So until then, my connections are set to "metered". But guess what? This prevents things using the update service from installing easily, like network printer drivers etc. And I'm using ethernet, not wifi right now, so to make THAT metered, I had to hack the registry (thankfully HowTo Geek helped swimmingly with that). And then, on principle, I've disabled telemetry etc. Not that I actually MIND telemetry existing, but it's too aggressive and turning it off without hacking the OS (which is what ShutUp 10 basically does) is impossible. You don't include buttons to turn it on or off and then tell me that the buttons don't really work or get the whole job done, and not telling me that it resets itself on update is even worse.

Further and final to this, there's a CRAPTON of menus I need to go through to get access to what I want which is easily accessible with a couple clicks from Vista to 8.1, like access to the date and time settings, etc. There's useless new GUI menus that don't actually offer enough options for me to tweak or change what I want, but have replaced everything else. I can no longer do something as simple as left click for volume mixer, something I use often when launching new games and programs, as my headset is very loud and in-game/in-app/in-program volume settings are often not enough to get it quiet enough for me. I have a very good balance with audio from anything running on my system such that my voice chat programs don't ever talk heavily over them, but that I can hear everything properly enough to be competitive in games, AND that when I record my microphone volume is JUST enough over the games/voip programs that you can hear me more clearly but still hear and understand everything. And Windows 10 just makes it harder to do, EVEN IF IT'S ONE MORE CLICK. It doesn't need to be there.

See all of this? I never had to deal with this on Windows XP (used from 2002 to 2008), Windows Vista (used from 2008 to 2011; stopped when programs I needed to use just discarded Vista), Windows 7 (used from 2011 to 2013), and Windows 8/8.1 (used from 2013 to 2017).

Now I realized after moving to Vista and using it for more than a week that I much preferred it over XP, but let me list the necessary things I have to do to an OS on install:
Vista - Set up windows update to my liking.
7 - Set up windows update to my liking. Disable Aero shake.
8.1 - Set up windows update to my liking. Disable Aero shake. Install Start8.
10 - Set up windows update. Replace multiple programs like calculator with superior, previous versions. Run O&O ShutUp10 and properly change settings I want. Kill OneDrive with group policy, as it has no off-button I can simply find. Turn off a ton of M$ apps that I don't use but keep running in the background and updating themselves. Re-turn these auto updates etc after signing into the store once, because doing so turns back on all their updates. Set system to stop signing into my M$ account because I signed into it on the store, because I want a local account. Hack registry to let me use metered connection on ethernet so Windows doesn't screw with drivers. Bunch of other tweaks that I picked from Phoenix's clean install guide that I can't even think of right now.

See any differences?

All W10 needs to do to get my approval is:
- Don't change things without my permission. Alert me if some setting wishes to be changed and let me approve or deny the change, like whether I now want to sign into my M$ account instead of my local windows account.
- Let me determine if I want drivers updated via windows update, and let me choose if I want it. I.E. W7/8.1 style where it would be under optional updates in a list.
- Give me a grace period of about a week to schedule or run updates so that it does not happen when I don't want it to. Anybody not using a PC that's on for over a week I would suppose has no complaints if it runs an update, and a week is enough for any even prosumer PC to prepare I'll say.
- Make telemetry on/off buttons actually work properly, and encompass everything so hacks are not necessary.
- Not require group policy updates to change things like OneDrive being on or off.
- Make the bloody thing stable. Store being broken is EXTREMELY common, and has been since 8.1. Except in 10, it's rather integral to things. Task Scheduler for tasks that occur without a user being logged in is completely broken, with M$ reps blaming it on antiviruses and telling everyone to just clean install. There's a whole list of issues going on that they seem to not care about fixing, and would rather sweep under the rug because most people won't notice. The answer to a broken windows store is not "reinstall my OS". It's "you fix the store, or make it fixable without reinstalling everything and crossing my fingers".

I mean, realistically, it's a small list. I didn't say a THING about killing telemetry, or killing forced updates for the OS. There is nothing to lose for them to implement any of these changes... if they really are pro-consumer.

I'm going to continue using W10, certainly, but more because I have to. I'm not gonna say it's entirely worthless. There's some things I've noticed in usage that are welcome changes, certainly. But it's not enough to get over the downsides, and amount of work I need to do to make it behave, and most of the new things (Menus, and applications) they put in like the new calculator and the useless popup when clicking on my audio icon? Combined with stuff like hiding windows photo viewer requiring hacks to get it back etc? It's just a HUGE net negative. Saying that these things will appear in later scenarios are, while welcomed, not above scrutiny because they were there in the past and should have been there from the initial conception. But hopefully, since we'll all have to use it sooner or later, they DO come.

 

@D2 Ultima, have you considered purchasing a Windows 10 Enterprise licence, and then using W10 Enterprise LTSB? That should definitely save you a lot of trouble. If I remember correctly, it's what @Mr. Fox uses, and it's what I plan to use on a new machine going forward.

 

It does not have the Windows Store, which I will inevitably need. I did consider it, I can guarantee that. LTSB would be ideal, except that it doesn't actually update and needs reinstalling to get to the next tick of update (which some games will require). It works better for Mr. Fox who generally only cares about his benchmarks, but for someone whose usage is as diverse as mine is, it will cause more headache in the end than not.

 

You can add Windows Store and XBOX gaming stuff to Enterprise 2016 LTSB. I did and it worked the same as Pro. It's just that it does not come with it by default. I know it's kind of ironic to add cancer to it, since Windows 10 UWP is absolutely dog feces. It's a sin and a crime what they are doing to destroy PC gaming. Hopefully, Windows 10 UWP gaming will ultimately fail and they will stop supporting it altogether. There's really nothing in the store that is worth a damn. A few random games that they are using to try to coax more oatmeal brained minions into switching to the cancer OS. If not for Gears of War 4 I absolutely would not allow that sewage to be resident, but that's the only way I can get it. Just shameful and a dishonest way to run a business. It's much like all of the PlayStore garbage for Android... literally dominated by bloatware trash.

 

I will then more consider it in the future. I don't care much for the Xbox stuff but I will eventually need the store for something I'm sure.

If/when I need to reinstall I will consolidate more info about this then!

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

I don't like it either, but if you're not signed into XBOX then your game progress gets lost and on those with point or power-ups, you don't get them without it. So, as nasty as it is, if you're going to play UWP games, you're more or less stuck with XBOX garbage, too.

 

Seems like Enterprise 2016 LTSB might be for me since I only like w10 for playing Forza.

 

Indeed. The only good thing about Windows 10 is that it has support for DX12 and support for future CPUs—both of which happen to be artificial limitations by Microsoft, which wishes to force users to 'upgrade or die'.

 

I really like it when you talk like this. A major improvement over some of our other exchanges. Awesome.

 

@cookies981 - I respect your right to have an opinion that differs from mine, but I must take issue with your comments because they are totally inaccurate. They did not do ANYTHING to support new hardware in Windows 7. Their support is NOT REQUIRED. Support for Sky Lake, Kaby Lake and Ryzen was present without them lifting either cheek of their lame Nazi arse. Intel and AMD provided the driver support. And, you are 100% wrong in saying they are not intentionally breaking system. They are doing EXACTLY that because they are a dishonest business that has to resort to slight of hand, lies, deception and bullying to get their piece of crap OS rammed up all of our butts whether we like it or not. Their wickedness is going to come around and bite them in the bottom. As some like to say, Karma is a female canine.

 

This is why I refuse to allow either on my system. I'll buy other games (like I just got wildlands and watch dogs 2 gold editions for $130), even with the pains of some other game designers. The only thing I miss is the calculator. I remove all ability for any apps, and it will not allow later addition of earlier versions of calculator. That is the only app I miss. The rest can go **** itself. Even if M$ releases the new halo only through the store, I'll live without. Destiny 2 can fill that hole in my life. Then there is Shadows of War this year as well, so I have no need of store locked ****ware. It will either come to steam like Fable series or they won't get my money. Period.

Edit: also, the new call of duty coming soon! Taking it back to where the franchise does well!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57177/nvidia-launch-next-gen-volta-based-geforce-q3-2017/index.html

Further proof of how scared Nvidia is of Vega!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Just install the old Windows calculator and be done with it. Remove the atrocious piece of garbage calculator that ships with Windoze OS X.

http://winaero.com/blog/get-calculator-from-windows-8-and-windows-7-in-windows-10/

I have always been a huge Gears of War fanboy. This is the ONLY reason I have Windows Store and XBOX installed. For the most part, anything that is made to be a Windows Store UWP exclusive is a piece of trash, but there are a about as many exceptions that I can count on one hand. What makes it different (and objectionable) now is you cannot just go to Control Panel and open Add/Remove Programs to get rid of this feces when you are done playing it. The Nazis have integrated this filth into the OS.

I still have my original Gears of War for Windows Vista that I purchased back in the day. It's still a great game, and since then I have found a modded EXE file to make it a totally portable game that does not require the optical media or Games for Windows Live. I just drag and drop it on whatever machine I want to play it on.

@D2 Ultima - XBOX is the substitute for what used to be Games for Windows Live. Remember all of the Micro$loth Studios games that required that to be installed? Some of them were pretty good. I have the same user name and logon for XBOX that I established back in the Windows Vista days. There are very few game titles I care enough to stoop to this level. Most of the stuff I care about it on Steam, Origin and UPlay.

 

Here is a video demo...

Click to view on YouTube...

@Ted@HIDevolution @Donald@HIDevolution @Zoltan@HIDevolution @Eurocom Support @thattechgirl_viv @John@OBSIDIAN-PC @Prema @Larry@LPC-Digital @Prostar Computer @Phoenix

As soon as my Bitspower IHS arrives I will be sending this donor P870DM3 heat sink back to HIDevolution for further testing and evalution. Still working great for me. Temps are excellent. The sample I started with was warped and never would have produced good results without a shim. A Bitspower IHS may eliminate the need for this mod, but it's still an excellent way to fix Clevo's mess.

Spoiler: Benchmarks - Max Fans on U3 Cooler

For Brother @Papusan

 

@Phoenix


Edit. Can as well put it here... Intel 300 series chipsets to integrate USB 3.1 Gen 2 and Gigabit WIFI - Guru3d.com

BGA Trash will also come with 6C-12T as rumors have said.

"Intel 300 series desktop processor motherboard will be based on the current LGA 1151 socket. Earlier rumours stated that the 300 Series chipset's Coffee Lake-S processor will provide 6 Cores 12 threaded CPUS, which is Intel's first in the mainstream platform to enhance the number of processors and threads."

 

Yeah because the only thing that determines whether or not an update will work is the driver support right?

Not like they have to code, not like they then have to test it to make sure it works, not like they then have to be responsible if it ****s up. Not like all of those things cost money. Only thing that matters is the driver support for the CPU. 8 years of supporting an OS is a long ****ing time and you and I both know that there's a lot more to supporting hardware with an OS than just drivers. Like I already said Windows 7 (like every version of Windows that came before it) is in extended support and mainstream support for the OS has ended.

Once again you can STILL use Windows 7 with those processors, it's not like if you plug it in it's going to not boot or work. You just won't get any of the security updates that MS releases (since its in extended support the only updates are security related anyways). So trying to claim that they are intentionally breaking your system is a massive stretch, its not like they went in and disabled the OS from starting if it detected a Kaby Lake or Ryzen chip.

Now yes you can say that well all MS has to do is warn people that the update hasn't been tested on their new hardware and they are, therefore, not responsible for any **** ups. But you and I both know, again, that doesn't work in the real world. Granted, not like Windows 10 updates have been issue free either.

Yeah because you know just right clicking the app and clicking uninstall is so much harder to do when it requires even less steps.

Are you seriously complaining about an easier way to uninstall apps that don't require the developer to use some garbage ass uninstaller that doesn't always get rid of everything? Seriously?

I do find it amusing you prefer uplay to xbox/windows store.

Origin I can understand because while I dislike having to use separate programs for exclusivity crap (EA for Origin, Valve for Steam, MS for Xbox store, and Ubisoft for uplay), the origin app isn't that bad. But uplay? That **** has been awful from the very first day it was released. It's especially more annoying when you purchase a game on steam and then have to launch uplay just to play the ****ing game.

 

http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/ram/104695-li-ram-conducts-information-via-light-instead-electricity/

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Great Video there Brother Fox. It turned out really well. I wonder if this method at the end of the day will be the better solution for more people since it essentially addresses and fixes a warped HS.

I'm keen to see what a Bitspower IHS brings but I still need to get hold of a flat HS for it to do its job

 

Nvidia is scared of what exactly? AMD have disappointed with Ryzen, and I'm willing to bet they're going to disappoint with Vega too. We desperately need a competitor to keep Intel and Nvidia in check and competitive but so far I don't have high hopes for AMD to fill that spot.

Plus I really don't understand what they're trying to go for with the stupid Polaris refresh (Rx 500 series) they released today.

 

One thing to keep in mind before ordering the Bitspower IHS is that the Kaby Lake version is 3.4mm High and the Skylake is 4.4mm. I Would go with the Skylake version for our Clevo systems. Since we already have issues with the stock Kaby Lake IHS being slightly lower.

 

Thanks, bro.

Try flattening yours out. I have done this a few times with good results. Removing the c-clips on the screws is usually very beneficial as well.

Lay it on a concrete floor pipe-side down. Place your thumbs, or the ball of your palms below the thumbs, on the outer edges where the screw holes are. (Remove the screws of course and leave the c-clips off.) Apply pressure on the outer ends of the heat plate to flatten it out. The pipes in the middle will act as a fulcum. Just go easy and make small changes and check with a straight-edge. The copper plate is soft and if you go crazy you will bend the crap out of it. It takes a decent amount of pressure, but if you pounce on it suddenly with like 300 pounds of force it will be too much.

 

C-clips were tried a while back - no dice. I did try some elbow grease on it earlier yesterday morning and it showed some minor improvement on visual inspection. I'll give it some more love later this morning if I get the chance.

 

Yes, I ordered the Skylake version for that very reason. It is 1.0mm taller than Kaby Lake version, but otherwise identical.

https://www.bitspower.com.tw/index....Path=322_323&zenid=8m51tcgvfa4ifun01u4f1sctf7

 

You are wrong. The 7 series didn't match on IPC, but didn't have to. Gaming isn't the only use. If you encode, encrypt, etc., Ryzen wins power price. On the 5 series, it actually matches and beats the equal priced CPUs. Yes, it has memory issues (waiting for AGESA update), but it caused Intel to revise expected earnings down, citing lower margins, increase Xeon core count to 32 from 28 originally planned for highest chip (from Naples), and planned price cuts on Skylake-X and misleading advertising data by counting the 24 pcie lanes on the pch while still only having 4 dmi lanes between the PCH and CPU. It will have fewer PCIe lanes in the HEDT platform than Threadripper and both will have roughly the same data transfer fabric rates. So you prove your ignorance by not discussing nuance on Ryzen.

Further, Nvidia released the 1080 Ti, released the Titan Xp, thereby proving they are willing to cannibalize profits. Moving up the release of the next generation by 6 months and only doing the 80 and potentially 70 lines means further being willing to cannibalize sales of 1080Ti and Titan Xp, because you have zero reason to release if it isn't faster than those cards. But, this move means it will likely be on TSMC's 16nm rather than 12nm process which was expected. Vega gets released next month. This means they are scared as **** of Vega! If you can't use your ****ing brain and read the writing on the wall, just stfu and move on. I will not tolerate ignorance.

Further, this card is reported to cost more than the recent 1080Ti, meaning they are having lower sales because of Vega and lower margins. Volta is the same tech gen as Vega. They did not want AMD to enjoy 8-9 months on top. Also, they needed a product with better margins and plan on a refresh of Volta on 12nm next year.

Vega incorporated tiling, a primitive shader bypass, and other features that Nvidia, in their own press conference, attribute more than 1/3 (up to 50%) of their performance. So research or go the **** on. Cite facts and do analysis. Don't be a ****ing fanboy.

Edit: as to the Polaris refresh, it is made on a refined process and is to capture the low and mid-range market. If you follow market share, AMD captured more of those segments with Polaris. Vega is purely high end cards. So, the refresh steaks up slightly better against Nvidia's lower end. They also OC better than the last gen, although still not quite as good as Nvidia. It isn't supposed to appeal to us. But this further shows you think it is a simple rebadge with higher clocks. That is part of it, but using a newer process will give slightly more performance as well.

As to Vega base clock, 1500+mhz is what to expect. Using math and leaked early silicon benchmarks at 1200mhz, sisoft, I believe it was, showed performance above 1080, but lower than the Ti by about 30%. By increasing the clocks 25% and taking into account the drivers at the time did NOT support Vega, and it being early silicon (C1 when they were on C3 at end of March, beginning of April) and you've got a contender on your hands.

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Thanks for proving my point, for the VAST majority of people Ryzen is not an upgrade. It's simply a worse processor and there's a reason why the vast majority of people are ignoring it (hint the vast majority aren't regularly encrypting data or encoding videos)

And yes I will fully agree with you in that the kaby lake series chips aren't that great, and quite likely the coffee lake series chips are not going to be that great either.

The Ti and the Titan refresh have been expected for months now. Wtf are you talking about when you say cannibalize profits lol? Last I checked they're absolutely killing it with the 10 series (especially with the 1080 and Ti) and the Titan Xp has also been relatively popular.

You want to talk about ignorance without failing to see what Nvidia is doing to AMD. Releasing the Ti and releasing the Xp means people upgrade NOW and don't wait for Vega to see if its better. You also fail to see what Intel and Nvidia is doing with prices. Both those companies have billions of cash on reserve, both those companies know that AMD simply do not and have been burning through their reserves faster than they can afford. Intel and Nvidia can play the price game all year long, AMD cannot. That doesn't mean they're scared of AMD, it just means they're locking out people from going AMD by making them buy Nvidia/Intel now.

I'm going to laugh so hard when Vega turns out to be the disappointment that it actually is and all you fanboys who've been sitting there hyping up Ryzen and Vega get disappointed again, and again.

If you think I'm a fanboy for Intel and Nvidia I'm not. I dislike their locked up crap, I dislike their incremental performance increases that aren't all that great. Had AMD released something great I would have switched immediately, they didn't and they won't.

Simple proof of that is how quiet AMD have been with Vega, they hyped it up a great deal before the previous conference promising to do some exclusive reveal and then what happened? Oh that's right Nvidia showed off the 1080Ti and AMD's spicy reveal suddenly went to nothing but a name. That gives us two options:
1. AMD is just retarded and were hyping up a name to get people excited.
2. AMD were surprised with the 1080Tis performance/1080 price cut and didn't want to reveal a product that wasn't better.

Add in the fact that if AMD really wanted people to wait for Vega they would be revealing a **** ton more information about it to hold people off from upgrading to the 1080Ti, buying the cheaper 1080, or going all out on the Titan Xp. They haven't done jack **** aside from a few leaked reveals and meanwhile Nvidia has been killing it with sales.

After all if I had a superior product and my competitor came out with an upgrade, I would be pushing out as much information as I could to the press to keep people interested in my superior product and make them consider waiting a month or two. AMDs silence is quite telling.

 

Reposting my Edit containing analysis since you didn't see it:Edit: as to the Polaris refresh, it is made on a refined process and is to capture the low and mid-range market. If you follow market share, AMD captured more of those segments with Polaris. Vega is purely high end cards. So, the refresh steaks up slightly better against Nvidia's lower end. They also OC better than the last gen, although still not quite as good as Nvidia. It isn't supposed to appeal to us. But this further shows you think it is a simple rebadge with higher clocks. That is part of it, but using a newer process will give slightly more performance as well.

As to Vega base clock, 1500+mhz is what to expect. Using math and leaked early silicon benchmarks at 1200mhz, sisoft, I believe it was, showed performance above 1080, but lower than the Ti by about 30%. By increasing the clocks 25% and taking into account the drivers at the time did NOT support Vega, and it being early silicon (C1 when they were on C3 at end of March, beginning of April) and you've got a contender on your hands.

Now, on to your points. First, gaming CPU sales amount to $2-4B (closer to $2B). Intel has about 94% of this market. Ryzen now has a product that allows to stream from the same computer you are gaming on with a loss of 10% performance in gaming and working better than GPU based capture or Intel's capture on detail (on the hardware side, not counting capture cards on separate computer). There is a video from one of the larger gaming review sites on this. These chips kill any of their prior offerings. Also, the Ryzen 5's 6-core performance goes above Intel's in higher multi-threaded gaming where IPC is not the be all end all. So, that means they will capture market share, which means they win.

On to the server and workstation market, which is worth $14B (some suggest as much as $16B). Intel owns over 99% of this market. AMD, in Naples, has created a product that scared Intel enough to move the server products to the first release starting with the 10nm+ process, meaning after Cannonlake-X, likely the earliest they could have made the change. Intel then added 4 cores to the Xeon lineup top end and pushed a benchmark of 50,000 score on Geekbench 4 with the 32-core CPU using Linux x64 distro. AMD's 8-core at 4.0 reaches 27,000 on the same bench and OS. The 16-core Threadripper will have the same speed, but will have to communicate between two dies. That means the 16-core will be nipping on the heals of the 32-core Intel on certain workloads. Think about that! Further, AMD's Naples has more PCIe lanes than Intel Xeon chips and 8-channel memory which will allow for infinity fiber to have as much as 176GB/s compared to Intel's 100 omnipath at 100GB/s transfer rates. Plus, for AI, most is done on GPUs, meaning more lanes = more cards = better platform for this use. I could step you through where Intel is better and AMD is better, but no need. The point is, AMD will likely increase the presence in this segment to a couple percent. Intel will remain dominant, but this is a larger win than "GAMING," proving YOU ARE WRONG SAYING THEY LOST!

Finally, you never addressed the reason to move a launch 6 months or the price cuts. The price cuts were to make sure they didn't get caught with their pants down like Intel. But, the moving of a launch date that much says they have real fear.

Also, you say AMD isn't doing well with Ryzen. Well, we'll find out in 3 days with earnings release. Also, why would AMD purchase a wireless VR tech company if they didn't have the money to do so? Could it be that they feel so comfortable meeting the debt obligations next summer (or being able to refi) that they will spend money for long term gains in VR gen 2 with wireless? Further, see the analysis above.

EDIT: https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/03/23/intels-data-center-monopoly-is-coming-to-an-end.aspx


https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-rx-vega-sisoft-benchmarks
https://videocardz.com/67242/amd-vega-with-64-compute-units-spotted

" Q: Motherboard players are optimistic about Ryzen's performance and expect AMD's desktop CPU market share to have a chance to return to 20% by the end of 2017 for worldwide and 30% for China. Can AMD meet its partners' expectation?

A: AMD's goal has always been to develop and release high performance PC platforms and products. I am very optimistic about Ryzen's overall computing performance and its sales, and believe Ryzen will help increase AMD's share in the worldwide desktop CPU market and the growth in China will be even stronger thanks to the country's large PC DIY user base and ecosystem."
http://www.digitimes.com/pda/a20170328PD210.html

Edit 2: @cookies981 - I could keep going all day pumping information at you about how ****ing wrong you are. You listen to hype, I listen to market analysis and follow numbers while creating my own analysis. Do you get it yet? Or are you just listening to the Goldman Sach's analysis that said AMD cannot stand a price war? The purpose of that was to stimmy the rising share costs while approaching earnings. To capitalize on the earnings release and call, you need a dip in the price leading up to the release of the data. After release, if the numbers are good, you then see a pop. But, you cannot play attrition if the stock does not depress before earnings. So you create an analysis like this to then create that artificially. Meanwhile, the price war will come, but Intel had like a 60% margin. Nvidia has it's own issues on margin and market share. If you lose too much of either, it depresses revenue which then means less distributions and potential loss of market float, meaning people value your company at less in the secondary market. This is why I say you are wrong, analysis from others, public information, etc.

 

With max fans.17C and 110mv more about 200mhz.

 

It still doesn't make sense to release it right now. I know what its for and I know why it exists, I just don't think it makes sense for AMD to release it at this point of time. Maybe they're hoping to quickly capture the people on the fence who are going for a low-mid end card.

Yet again, nobody here is talking about servers. I'm talking purely from a consumer view.

So yeah AMD may end up making the gains they so desperately require in servers and workstation usage, in regular consumer usage they'll likely not.

Once again no it doesn't. The price cut to the 1080 was because they had the 1080Ti coming out at the same price as the original 1080. And it puts the x80 series back on the same pricing scheme as previous generations instead of the inflated $200 they originally charged.

Moving the date up also means nothing, they're moving it back to the original date it was rumored to come out on. If it does come out end of this year then its been about 18 months between the 10 series release and Volta, which is just about average for Nvidia. It also gives them an advantage because they get to go "hey look we have a new processor, AMDs is old".

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day Intel and Nvidia have tons more money to play the price game, AMD doesn't. You can go check their financial statements which are available on their website.

Nvidia has more cash in the bank than AMD's revenue for 2016. Intel has vastly more than both of them. This is why the price cuts are rather meaningless, they're designed to force AMD to either match their competitors on price and hope performance will be equal, or to force AMD to reduce their prices and therefore reduce their profits as an attempt to bring in customers. They're not an indicator that Nvidia / Intel is scared of them.

You do realize you're quoting the CEO of AMD right? Meaning her opinion is largely worthless. She's not going to go there and go "oh well guys you know, AMD will struggle with these new processors"

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My biggest issue with AMD right now is the silence. If they really do have a better product then why the **** aren't they doing anything to promote it now? I know its not 100% ready but its close and they should be out there publishing benchmarks and all that to hold people off from purchasing Nvidia 10 series cards. Right now nvidia 10 series sales have been great, especially with the Ti. The majority of those people who just bought new nvidia cards are not going to be upgrading to vega in a month or two when it releases, even if its better, which means AMD have basically lost those potential customers and yet they're still silent.

That silence alone is quite telling. Especially when they teased a big reveal and then on the day in question went so guys...it will be called Vega! Either AMD were caught completely of guard with the Ti and they didn't want to reveal anything for fear that the performance wouldn't stack up and even more people would jump ship or...they're incompetent. Tbh both are equally likely and that's why I'm not holding out too much hope for it. AMD right now should be doing everything they can to get people to hold off from a Ti and wait for vega, and they're not.

 

Ahem. Well. You cannot uninstall biometrics, telemetry, Cortana the digi-slut, Skype, OneDrive and other key pieces of trash they insist everyone needs whether they want it or not. All of this crapware requires either third-party muscle and/or hacking to exorcise it.

So... Yes, seriously.

If you are talking about the extra Modern crApp bloatware trash that can be installed as optional filth from Windows Store, I agree that the right click removal is a nice feature. But, I am wondering if not having a "garbage ass uninstaller" means it leaves behind extra trash or not. I haven't looked into how effective the clean up is. I suspect it is not a thorough uninstall and probably leave some crap behind. But, as I said, I haven't looked into it. Probably don't need to since I don't let all of that cancer infect my system.

And, for some really retarded reason they don't think anyone has a right to go poking around in the Windows Apps folder. You've got to open a can of whoop-ass on that folder and doing so breaks some of the apps. Maybe they are scared someone is going to pirate some of their worthless freeware, LOL.

Maybe there is an example that I cannot remember, but I am not able to identify an example of Micro$loth ever taking responsibility for their mistakes. If you can point me to one that would be great. Even when they were still a good company they did not do that, so I would not expect them to start now. Skunks don't change their stripes.

The lack of "support" for Skylake and Kaby Lake truly is a non-issue for those of us that do not care about getting any security updates, but there are plenty of folks besides me that do care, and their draconian position is wrong. You're certainly free to think the Redmond Mafia's position is OK if you would like to. Knock yourself out. The rest of us that don't agree with you won't change our minds based on any rationale presented. It's clearly just another tactic to try to make ignorant consumers believe they need Windows 10 to have their computer function correctly. My opinion is what they are doing and the way they are presenting it is totally unethical. But, that has been par for the course since the introduction of Windows 10.

I don't hate the idea, only the implementation. I never like GFWL either, but it was not a big deal because it never interfered with how I choose to operate my computers. My preference is to have Windows Update service permanently disabled. If I want to use the Windows Store stuff (most of which is feces that I would never consider downloading) I have to re-enable the service and expose my system to their digital STDs. That's not cool. Being a Nazi is never cool. I don't have to allow Ubisoft to poop on my carpet to use Uplay, and I should not have to allow Micro$loth to have that liberty. But, those are the chintzy rules so one has to decide whether they want something from the Windows Store bad enough to have to stop and clean up the mess when they are done using it.

For every one good feature they get lucky with, we get multiple features that suck. I'm not saying they cannot do anything right. What I am saying is they intentionally choose to do wrong. Making mistakes is OK as long as they are limited. Making really bad decisions on purpose is not OK. They seem to excel at only the latter.