*** Official Clevo P65xSA/SE/SG / Sager NP8650/51/52 Owner´s Lounge ***

806 in the benchmark? Is the XTU benchmark heavily affected by RAM? Because I still haven't gotten around to upgrading to 16GB, and I am only getting ~370 marks.

 

Dunno, but I've got 16Gb RAM in dual channel mode running at 2133Mhz Cas 11

 

XTU bench is heavily affected by single vs. dual channel memory

 

WTF? I am getting 430 on battery in XTU benchmark, and around 820 when plugged in! Are you sure you are running it plugged in and on balanced/performance mode?

EDIT: saw your post octiceps, would make sense then (16Gb dual channel here)

Anyway, for those interested in this benchmark, here is how it looks with my settings: first run is stock, second undervolted with throttlestop, third one overclocked with throttle stop, lot of power throttling.

 

You sure you didn't overvolt? When I bsod'ed I accidentally scrolled the wrong way on voltage and my temps were higher.

 

Both over and undervolting can result in higher temps. I know, seems counter-intuitive when you undervolt. But if your undervolt allows the CPU to run faster you can end up with more heat.

 

The undervolt should balance out the clock speed increase in terms of temps, if not run cooler. Getting higher temps after undervolting is truly weird.

 

I think if your goal is lower temps you are going to get quicker results lowering your turbo multipliers, then undervolting.

 

1 - TDP bottleneck slider is pointless unless it's under "57W" for short power max and under "47W" for power max. You could set it to 200W if you want; that CPU, regardless of a 1000W power brick, will NEVER draw more than 57W for 2.5 minutes and 47W after that 2.5 minute time limit.
2 - undervolting = less power drawn = less heat generated + TDP limits go further. The more you can undervolt, the better, to be honest.
3 - Stutters/spikes when gaming is indeed a problem, and if you keep getting these issues with Throttlestop/XTU set properly/undervolted, then you have cause for a RMA. That's how I see it. You did not buy a $1000+ piece of equipment for it to "half work".

 

Power consumption is a linear function of frequency and a quadratic function of voltage, so it should be the other way around. But I guess it depends if lowering the multiplier also lowers voltage automatically.

 

I'm not saying that undervolting is going to always raise temps, in fact I'd guess it usually reduces temps, I'm just saying it seems to me that it would be possible for temps to go up in some situations. Take for example:

1. Under full load and at stock clocks and voltages your CPU hits the 47w power throttle limit at 3.0GHz
2. You undervolt, now your CPU only consumes 44w to hit the same 3.0GHz
3. Your CPU would, if I understand correctly, start clocking itself higher until it hit 47w again, say for argument's sake, your CPU now hits 3.2GHz.
4. Couldn't this situation possibly result in more heat (or no change)?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this stuff so, be easy on me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

 

So does the limit throttling mean it can't draw enough power from the 180w power brick (which seems unlikely if not overclocking, which I wasn't, and I only have the 970M GPU). If not, what does it mean?

 

If it's only a small undervolt, they might balance each other out. But a decent undervolt should free up well over 3W and result in not only a faster but also much cooler processor.

 

BTW I ran the XTU Benchmark again with a -80mV undervolt (no other changes) I got a score of 805, but max temp was down to an impressive 73 C. Max processor frequency was 3.33Ghz

I'm still a bit confused about what the "limit throttling is", though

 

There are 3 throttles listed in XTU. Thermal, Power limit, and current limit. Which one are you asking about?

 

Current Limit - it's the only one that seems to kick in for me on the 5 minute tests

 

According to prema's response to my question on T|I his bios mod makes the turbo power adjustment possible. Haven't tested yet because I'm waiting for him to make a mod based on 306 EC/BIOS

 

I just received my machine and I am having trouble getting the WiFI working. Presumably it is an issue with the Intel AC 7265 that is referenced on the original post on this thread. When I click those links though there doesn't seem to be a fix aside from a bios MOD which I am not really interested in. I have tried the latest drivers from Intel. Any other ideas or people that have this problem?

 

Yep, current limit (Amps) is a bit of an unknown for me as well so far. I see in Throttlestop where you can, presumably, fiddle with the limit of 70A but I don't know how safe that is to do. I don't recall seeing anyone else mention messing with that setting.

 

I believe that quite a few members have set their limit from 70A to 100A. I would try it myself but I have yet to flash with Prema bios and the option is not available to me on stock.

However, I would add that I am a nothing but a curious newbie and that you can probably get confirmation regarding how safe it is from someone else here .

 

That setting is a cap, so during normal operation it has no impact. Of course by raising that cap you allow more power to be used and all that power will of course turn to heat

 

If you can get it to listen to the TDP adjustment, please show me. You'd need to make the CPU draw 60W+ for over 4 minutes somehow. If this can be done, then the 4720HQ chips (and by extension anyone who buys the 4870HQ from places which offer it like Eurocom) will have a far better machine than they'd initially have thought.

 

Ok, with a -60mV undervolt and a 5 year old cooling pad, I have brought my max temps in XTU from 95C down to 80C, which is awesome. But now I'm looking to flash my Bios and EC. Are the stock ones listed on Prema's site the most recent version and/or the version I should be using?

 

Updating to the latest stock bios/ec is not really required. Only flash it if you are having an issue or if you have decided to mod the machine (and all that entails).

 

What benchmark/stress test are you running when you see the 80c max? Seems like maybe you mean the XTU stress test but I hate to assume.


Thanks.

 

Yeah, that was in the XTU stress test and benchmark. I am in the process of ordering 16GB of RAM; once I get that, I'll run more tests. Right now I was just trying to shave a few degrees off of my processor temps in the mean time.

 

I mostly flashed my BIOS to the Prema one so that I could run my memory at it's rated 2133Mhz speed, I don't intend to OC the CPU, as that seems to be the weak point as far as heat is concerned on these machines and the reason I've been looking into undervolting. I'm going to leave the machine at -60mV for now and see how that works out.

 

Guys, for the sake of comparison, I would be interested in knowing what paste each one of you has (if it has been repasted or using stock paste), if laptop is flat on table, roughly room temperature ... Would give more meaning to your temps.

 

Mine came shipped with Arctic MX2 thermal paste, MySN ship all their XMG Clevo's with the I think. Not 100% sure if it's just on the CPU or on the GPU as well, though

 

Did you replace that MX-2? Because MX-2 is about as good as toothpaste for these CPUs.
Gelid GC Extreme, IC Diamond, Arctic Céramique 2 and "Shin Etsu X23-7921 5" are the best non-liquid metal pastes

 

Describing Mx-2 as "as good as toothpaste" is a bit of exaggeration, all the reviews I've read say that it's perfectly decent paste, if not up there with the very best, but the temps difference only seems to be a few degrees, for which I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of re-pasting

 

For the temps it depends in which range... Desktop and laptop have different temperature of work usually, the gap between pastes being bigger with laptops since they operates at higher temps. Only a few degrees like you said, but I am interested in comparing too and understanding the cooling performances of the laptop.

 

Okay. What you have there is "desktop knowledge". What you have is a laptop. Most of the time when you check desktops, you're checking IHS, high-mounting-pressure, powerful cooling systems. The higher your temps get, the more variance there is in thermal pastes. We also have fairly low mounting pressure environments, which does make a difference in how pastes work.

If you're hitting say 73 with MX-2, you might hit 70 flat with ICD, sure. If you're hitting 90 with MX-2, ICD might have you hit 83-85. If you're hitting 95 with MX-2, you might hit 88 with ICD. etc etc.

When desktop users check MX-2 and MX-4 and AS5 and ICD and notice say a 3 degree variance and the difference is 62 and 64-65 degrees, they don't care. It's great and cool enough for them. But laptops are a different story. I keep trying to explain this to desktop users, but they keep demanding "proof" from "reputable websites" like Anandtech. As if Anandtech is going to buy a clevo and overclock it while checking a bunch of different pastes.

Anyway, I'm a little off topic. MX-2 for these machines is not very good. A good application of AC2, Gelid or ICD can mean a lot cooler running in your most demanding application. Especially if you're already undervolting for temps etc. Believe me, my laptop's CPU cooling is rather pathetic compared to the P17xSM and P17xSM-A models, far less an AW17 R1 or AW18. I've been stretching this thing for quite some time, and now with a healthy application of Liquid Ultra paste, propping up my laptop and the good old foil tape mod, I can sit under 80 degrees doing XTU stress test while at 3.9GHz at stock voltage. I can render my videos out barely hitting 90, where with original applications I would barely render 1/5 of a 5 minute video before I hit 97 degrees on cores 1 and 2 and began thermal throttling like crazy. If I set it back to my original 3.5GHz with -50mV undervolt, my CPU doesn't know the meaning of "80 degrees".

Anyway, I was indeed exaggerating about it being about as good as toothpaste... but more because toothpaste doesn't last as long XD. Mayonaise I've heard does the job well too. Ask Jaybee

 

I just received my Eurocom M5 Pro, everything works great except the touchpad because I can't get scrolling to work on it. I installed the latest drivers and I see no option ANYWHERE to enable scrolling. Can anyone share some insight on this? Thanks.

 

BTW I've read some scare stories about using diamond paste on mobile CPUs e.g. the surface of the CPU being damaged, or is that only with certain pastes?

 

I use Liquid Ultra...

 

based on user reports and on personal experience, i can say that ICD does cause some scratching on the chip, but i havent seen a single case of hardware failure due to this. its mostly just of cosmetic nature also, if u follow D2 Ultima´s instructions on soaking the ICD with stuff like arcticlean or isopropanol for a few minutes, it comes right off without any scratching

 

You should contact Eurocom support and see if they can't get it to work.

As Jaybee said, this is from improper removal techniques. Their website and removal techniques state clearly to soak it in cleaning solution then it wipes off, but many users use alcohol-soaked wipes etc, and it does not dissolve. I can confirm that if you remove improperly it scratches, and if you remove it properly it does not.

Brother! *high five through internets*

 

Is that a metal-based one?

 

yes

 

You're braver than I am!

 

I played SC2 last night for 2+ hours and the machine stayed cool and "quiet".

Quiet as in the fans were audible but not loud or annoying. This machine is quieter than PS4.

Question, I have plenty of dell PSUs that are slimmer in profile but none of them mention watts. How can I figure the watts out?

 

I doubt a PSU for a Dell laptop has enough power to run one of our machines adequately...

 

Hi, can you please explain what you mean by this? Thank you!

 

Wich paste do you use?

 

He said Liquid Ultra - presumably this: http://www.coollaboratory.com/en/products/liquid-ultra/

Reviewed here:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/thermal-paste-performance-benchmark,review-32804-3.html

I'm just a bit scared of using a metal-based thermal paste in my laptop, as they're electrically conductive, which is not good if you get some in the wrong place, but maybe I'm being over-cautious?

BTW are people here repasting the GPU as well, or just the CPU?

 

I repasted both. No issues since I received my unit. Application of CLU is quite easy for me...

 

When repasting the GPU, did you have to replace any thermal pads over the GOU's memory modules, or is the GPU itself the only thing in contact with heatsink?

 

I didnt replace any pads.

 

My P650SG has finally arrived! However.... my F11 key is wonky. It's a little bit crooked and feels different.





Does anyone know how to safely remove a key and put it back in place? I think that might do the trick