*** Official Clevo P870DM/Sager NP9870-G Owner's Lounge - Phoenix has arisen! ***

The Voodoo 3 with 3DFX Glide was my first 3D GPU. Nothing blew my mind till date as that difference I felt going from an S3 standard VGA Card to a whooping Voodoo.....that name had character and performance behind it.......nowadays, all I feel is a few extra 3DMark points but nothing that makes me go like WOW

 

I have never owned a stick shift car and always wanted one. But now I want to buy a 2009 M3 E93 but the manual is 0.2 seconds or so slower in the 0-60 run. I guess manual shifting speed can never keep up with the snappy SMG Transmission shifting

 

Cars are far less friendly for the user to self service this days so that analogy is not helping you very much.

Companies sell what people want, people wanted thinner machines than MXM would allow.

 

I surprisingly do not have bad response times with the keyboard... It also doesn't make the weird noise that the other guy talked about. Makes me wonder if the quality varies that greatly per region purchased from. Mines from XPC.

 

I have no issue with the noise, my issue is with the size. The keys are way too small for my liking I can never get used to them.

 

I remember the voodoo 2, then the banshee were my first two cards. I forgot which card I got after that, but that card and an amd thunderbird 3200+ was what I worked with through undergrad. Wish I still had it for classic OC on hwbot.org! Think the CPU is here, but the motherboard isn't... God those were good days with warcraft/2 and Diablo on the banshee (or voodoo 2) can't remember which card was in it second, they were in one of the computers in the house)...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

the first time I saw a 3D Accelerated game was FIFA 1995 or 1996 on a Voodoo 2, my jaw dropped when I saw what computer graphics could do At the time though, I couldn't find it as it was replaced by the Voodoo 3 which was a full 3D Graphics Card not just an accelerator

 

I am partially agree. But what about the cost if you have to use a repair shop after the warranty has expired and you can't fix it self? I was also referring to what it costs to repair everything vs just one part. This is the same as with computers. When the warranty is expired, it becomes more difficult to obtain parts/ more expensive to fix a BGA machine. It will be cheaper to loosen 13-16 screws on your machine to fix it in a repair shop vs +50. Nor is it cheap to pay for an extended warranty to guard against higher costs.

 

I think it is even worse.

Because when BGA fails, it usually fries something in all components. Like, even if you replace motherboard with GPU + CPU, once you do that, other components usually fry within 3 months, or even worse, the new motherboard fries.

BGA is like buying a one time usage machine, that cannot be upgraded, cannot be changed, cannot be repaired. Must be thrown in the recycle bin when it fails.

In fact, why does BGA exist ? Only for the thinner build. I mean that is it? Because there are people who cannot carry +2KG, but still want to carry a laptop ? I feel so left out of this. I mean, most humans to periodic body training, or at least walk if they need a laptop. Carrying another KG should not even feel. And for what would anyone need a slim laptop. I can get slim smartphones and tablets. But laptops anyways need to be opened.

BGA achieves worse temperatures, speeds, reliability, cost/performance. The only two things it achieves are less power consumption, which is possible with a lower tier socketed, and less weight / size.

It is almost like they want to have laptops as small as possible, while there is little reason for it. I mean, they will blow hot air into your pants either way, as a male, you cannot really sit with one on lap and game and be healthy. So, for gaming you anyways need to place the thing on the table.

I think it is unfair to advertise it as thin and light without telling that it is a one piece product, not repairable, and if bought BGA regardless of how much you paid, it cannot last more than 4 years. Maybe 6 if you really take care of it. But probably the performance will not be worth keeping it by then. But resell value is awful too for BGAs.

 

My keys are fairly quiet so I think something may be wrong with your machine

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

the problem these days with non-BGA machines is, we have very limited choice. Who other than Clevo makes non-BGA machines?

 

Remember the earlier days, mobile phones became smaller and smaller in size every year. Now have mobile manufacturers started to increase their phones in size. Look at Acer... Predator becomes thicker now because Acer will use 980. Laptops can not be slimmer if they should contain real hardware. However, some OEMs have not understood this yet. Shall not mention names

 

I am not sure if anyone else makes them non BGA machines. This is why I am so bashful of BGA. Because everyone started using it. Laptop makers know that when it has limited lifetime, and they make sure people will buy again after a while. Not to mention that BGA being here means that everything socketed is more expensive because it is a niche.




I read in this thread that windows 10 is not good. What is wrong with it? Is there a discussion about this? I have been running windows 10 without problems, but would really like to know if it is broken.

 

Why I don't like Windows 10

I use it because Windows 7 sucks on NVMe drives. I learned to live with it. Windows 8, I won't use even if you paid me as it requires me to login with a Micro$h4ft account if I want to use OneDrive. With Windows 10, I can have a local account and still use OneDrive

 

Using a car analogy, BGA is more like this...

Shop: "So, the automatic transmission in your tree-hugger hybrid turd car is slipping."
Owner: "Dang, I just spent $2,000 having the tranny rebuilt in my wife's SUV two months ago."
Shop: "To fix it, the grand total is going to be $8,000."
Owner: "WHAT!?! Are you nuts, man? The car only cost me $10,000... this is insane."
Shop: "No, you're insane for buying this piece of trash. $8,000 also includes the engine, alternator and starter."
Owner: "Hey, it's a cute car. I got a good deal on it and it meets my needs. Just the transmission, please."
Shop: "LOL, didn't you know all of those components are welded together? You can't fix anything. It's a disposable piece of crap."
Owner: "Forget it. I am going to buy another car. And, find another shop. Your insults really piss me off."
Shop: "Hey pal, don't get all sassy. All I did was tell you the truth. Next time pay closer attention to details."

 

A lot of people moved to BGA because intel stopped selling mobile CPUs in a socket and if one part is now BGA you may as well make the rest of it for the space savings.

 

The sad part is that there are like one company making sucketed laptops. We need more to do this, to make competition, in both prices and quality. Then invest for innovation. Like, companies could easily design a liquid cooling solution that would dissipate head through entire bottom part by having the plastic termo conductor, and have a large plate where liquid recicles.(This is me with hopeful thinking)

 

Well, all I can say is, better them than me. Go with the flow and life's gonna blow. Only reason Intel can get away with selling it is consumer ignorance. Wrap a turd in a shiny foil wrapper and tie a bow on it and somebody's going to buy it and insist it's a chocolate bar. Why? Because the guy that sold it to them said it was.

Two wrongs don't make a right. It was wrong for Intel to go that way, and it's wrong to go with the flow and buy it "just because" that's what they sell, and the end result is totally wrong. Three strikes.

 

You want a laptop that is designed to burn your lap or the table you put it on?

CPUs really do not tend to fail, it is more of a problem for GPUs.

 

Liquid cooling in a laptop? Here you go......if only it wasn't from ASUS....... not touching any laptop that has the name ASUS on it:

 

Bro, 99% people here in Dubai don't even know what is a non-BGA laptop, don't know that laptops can have desktop components and be upgraded and swapped in case of an upgrade or repair.

They just want to buy a shiny laptop with cool lights (hint: Dellienware) and play a few games

When I tell some of my friends the specs of my laptop, their jaws drop as it is more powerful than their gaming desktops

 

But is there reason to do it the same way as this guy? He threw out ALL socket hardware when he first started You said... make a lower quality system!!! What with the new slim JUNK @Alienware-Frank ?


@Phoenix Asus make useless cooling. Is this portable?

 

Yes, but we live in disposable times - annual iPhones and tablets started this. Even routers now if you look at Netgear. I think most are happy to get 2-4 years out of a laptop (depending on their economic situation) and then they move on. Who among us hasn't lusted for the latest, next technology? 98% of people out there aren't putting a screwdriver to their laptops, even if it was non-BGA. You cant fault [insert company name here] for understanding that and building to that market. I agree with all of you - would be nice to have more options, as competition brings out the best. I just see it as an 'and' and not an 'or' when it comes to BGA.

 

Excuse me, bro! My first computer which I created was computer with Z80 processor supporting 16-bit (64 KB) memory (code name - Spectrum). And I don’t soldering processor as BGA - only installed by using socket and for memory also...

 

the water cooling thing is detachable, so when you are on the go, you don't use it and must revert to lower clock speeds to keep the heat down. When you are at home, you connect it and enjoy better cooling and more overclocking headroom.

With that said, ASUS cannot simply make USB ports in their laptops, since the past 5 generations, their left USB ports are flaky and if you connect an external HDD, it would randomly disconnect. I had my last ASUS G751JY refunded because of this issue as ASUS tech couldn't repair it

 

What should I do with such a cooling when this garbage not even deliver better than what I already have. Read the comment on the final ..

 

GX700 is a BGA turdbook with a colostomy bag. The Edsel was also unique. It was also synonymous with failure.

1958 Ford Edsel - The 50 Worst Cars of All Time

Since we all love automotive analogies, here is a sample of something for thin and light fanboys...

 

Would be great for you with extra luggage when you travel for business. You need to replace some of the other baggage with it, unless you can get some help from a colleague or your wife. Buy clothes when you need it on your journey. Or You can put in your extra clothes in it and leave the other luggage being home




@Mr. Fox traveling in his job...

 

At that point why not carry around a Mini ITX?

 

No need to drag around with a screen as well

 

Flexible OLED displays will soon solve this issue . LG demoed displays at CES 2016 that rolled up like chart paper.

Sent from my Micromax AQ4501 using Tapatalk

 

You wanna have watercooling in your rigs? Here we go:

 

@ Splintah, @Phoenix
I've recorded typing on my keyboard. Sound tells everything :/

 

What the.. that is abnormal. Sounds like a 20 year old IBM keyboard. All my 3 previous keyboards which I replaced were 99% silent.

The good news is the fix is easy. Simply contact your reseller and tell them to send you a replacement and you will send the old one back once you replace it. It's not so hard to install. HIDevolution has sent me 3 replacement keyboards so far. Piece of trash Clevo keyboards even Acer would be ashamed to put such a keyboard in their low end systems

 

function and design in one modification

 

I removed keyboard about 3 times. After taking it out -> it seems perfectly fine. Unfortunately, it seems to me that something inside is too low than it should be. I will send them whole unit to avoid wasting time...

I love this keyboard but this issue drives me to the edge of insanity... few more days and I'll be worse than Joker...

 

Rads are too small....way too small to cool SLI 980 and 6700k.

 

This is not the Phoenix. Actually it is a Dell Inspiron 17R SE from a friend of mine!

 

I know

Just saying WC on laptops is not realistic unless we make them a lot thicker.

 

Sounds like the keyboard might be bent or bowed in the middle there, allowing enough space to make that sound. Or perhaps the keyboard cavity in the chassis itself is warped.

If you place the keyboard on a flat surface, does it wobble at all?

 

@Netherscourge, on flat surface it seems ok. :-(
I sent message to my reseller. I'm waiting for reply...

I bet 70% on keyboard cavity inside and 30% on keyboard.

 

Seems like the metal plate is bent inwards/concaved. Bending it back to fix it is risky, might as well just replace it.

 

Just to point out the first thing that comes to mind, did you make certain you put the 1 keyboard screw back in it?

 

Can you tell if the are under the keyboard looks bent in at all? If you put something straight on it do you see a gap? Hopefully its not the frame, and might be something with the keyboard itself.

 

Keyboard seems ok. Outside of laptop it's working perfectly fine.
It bents too deep that it could be it's fault. Keyboard cavity seems quite fine. :/

Of course I did. And even without the screw, it would change nothing. It only prevents taking keyboard out of chassis. And it's located on the left side.

 

Well, I wasn't calling you incompetent, so sorry if that's how it came across.


I work in IT all day, and over the years even I can miss small things like forgetting a screw. Simple things are often overlooked.


I would echo what others have suggested, that is: either the keyboard is warped slightly, the keyboard tray on the laptop is warped slightly, or the keys themselves are damaged.


The first two can be checked with a straight edge. The latter I'm not so certain about. Most laptop keys can be removed without damage. Unfortunately I do not have the procedures to properly remove individual keys on this model without damage.


This keyboard is from a different model, but disassembly of the keys may be similar:


http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/a-key-pulled-off-keyboard-np8278.773429/


It looks like the top edge of the key can snap upwards, and then slide the key downwards off the lower clasps. Once the cap is off you should be able to inspect the key further.


Of course, you may not want to do this if it's still under warranty.


Has anyone else removed any keys without damage?

 

Your keyboard seems slightly different than mine. Attached is how my keys look compared to yours... makes me wonder if there's a different keyboard based on vendor (with mine originating from Sager/XPC).

EDIT: My keyboard has a metallic base and does not bend. Has magnets along some parts of it due to the design and ease of installation/replacement. Also, my keyboard doesn't really make any noise when typing... this might explain why some people have issues with their keyboard bulids over others...

 

Nobody up to this point hasn't made a good implementation of 2XGTX980. This is amazing. Maybe Pascal is so good, it will make this redundant, but I would not put my hopes into Pascal 1080 being more than 30% better than a 980.

I don't see very big differences there. Maybe it is less evident in the picture vs the video. I thought that all P870 keyboard are the same, with the same magnets.

 

I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it. In terms of the letters/numbers, my keyboard looks like yours, not the other guy who's having issues.

I don't know if it's just a localization thing or not, though. His keyboard has a different font altogether and I don't have that "E" symbol next to my #5 key.

 

You can take a look at the J keys and how some of the others look compared to what I attached.

The sound his keyboard makes is vastly different compared to what I have. Once I get back home, I can probably do a low-quality recording of how mine sounds.