*** Official Clevo P870DM/Sager NP9870-G Owner's Lounge - Phoenix has arisen! ***

You are experiencing the same? This isn't normal at all... Keyboard itself is awesome but... this is insane! :C

http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/klawiatur_ssaxprn.png
"u, i, o, j, k, l, n, m" keys are insanely loud and are bending & hitting interior...

 

I would love to see any kind of competition as that breeds innovation.

 

Isn't it reasonable to like both? I like having a thin gaming computer, and I like having an enthusiast rig as well. The Sager just replaced an M18x R1 with a 2920XM and 680m SLI. When time came to replace it, there werent any similar options so hence the Sager. But I have to tell you, the Blade is very convenient and useful as well. I understand the hate (sort of) at so called BGA enthusiast laptops, but what's so bad about thin gaming? While I sure traveled with the M18x, I could never whip it out on a plane like I do with the Blade. And I use the Blade as my work computer rather than the bland POS Dell or HP of the moment my company gives out. It serves a purpose for me.

 

Razer blade is not exactly most expensive nor most cutting edge performance either. More like mid-end (?).

Yes, but at that price point, you would rather want to break the benchmarks with it.

Laptop CPUs comparation:

Clevo P870 - 6700K + OC + stock cooling + breaks benchmarks - 88 degrees.

Acer Predator gaming laptop - 6700hq + no OC + ice core marketing thingy + cannot reach good benchmarks results at all - 99 degrees on all cores, throttles.

Please tell me where is the fairness. The difference in price is about like this : For the same RAM and SSD and HDD and Display, Acer PRedator costs 3/4 of P870.

Predator is heavy too, it is a gaming laptop, but heavy, and makes noise.



This is what BGA does to laptops. IT is like a plague.



EDIT ::: I considered getting a predator before, so I know what I am talking about.

 

Hope is always a good thing. Two things need to happen, and they need to happen in this order:

1. AMD releases an unlocked CPU with unlimited TDP that has performance equal to or better than a superior-binned 6700K running at 4.7GHz or higher and includes DDR4 support
2. AMD releases a GPU in MXM with performance equal to or better than a 200W GTX 980 on MXM... one that performs the same stock and overclocks as good or better than a maxed out 200W GTX 980 MXM and supports CrossFire
3. Clevo releases a "desktop laptop" 17-inch or larger DTR-class notebook that uses these AMD products in sockets and slots (no BGA options whatsoever)

If they do that and the products do not have a disturbing failure rate like 6990M and 7970M, count me in. But, I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I have been burned too many times to be an early adopter. I am no longer an early adopter if my money is required for participation. I prefer watching others jump off the cliff.

 

So, because I trust you guys (and there isn't a good recent thread on it in the accessories category), which mechanical keyboard would you recommend. I'm getting either Brown or Blue Cherry MX switches (want more tactile):
K95 Corsair RGB Cherry MX Brown
Das Keyboard 4 Professional Cherry MX Brown
K70 Corsair RGB Cherry MX Brown
Razor Black Widow Chroma

I'm looking, first, at what is best to type with and most comfortable. Second is utility to game, but that is a far second. It will be primarily at my home desk. Money is not an issue. Condemn me, if you will, for off topic (but good peripherals are, in my opinion, related).

 

Been using my OG Blackwidow with the blue switches over the years, love this keyboard. Other than that one i like using my Ducky with Cherry MX Brown switches every now and then.

 

How do you like the Brown v. Blue? Only reason I'm hesitant on that for the Das Keyboard is the loudness...

 

I use a ducky shine with MX brown switches personally.

 

I have the K95 RGB w/blue switches. Love it.

 

How loud is it with blue switches?

 

I think the first one and the second one is about guaranteed. The third one, maybe not so much....

AMD's relationship with OEMs has been... frosty lately.

 

But, top be fair on those relationships, they've been burned by amd products not performing well for a good while and they want proof of quality and performance as well as sales. They hold the cards. Meanwhile, amd seems to have a solid deck now and are even releasing timelines again. That makes me more hopeful...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

It's up to AMD to prove now, it's make or break.

 

thinking of buying some stock in them tbh

 

You should have done it a couple days ago. 61% increase in one day....

 

Best would have been last fall or after the dump before earnings were released.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

I think they are wanting their console graphics cards getting game developers used to their hardware, then that might pay benefits in the long term for their PC graphics.

 

It's loud but I love the sound and feel.

 

Guarantees are nice. Execution is better. Sometimes guarantees are worthless. But, I really, really, really do hope all three become reality. I just find it extremely difficult to trust anything from AMD due to bad experience with their trash. But, I am also very forgiving when I see evidence of change. I really don't care about brand names where technology is concerned. I'll kick NVIDIA and Intel to the curb like a chunk of dirt without so much as batting an eye if AMD gives me a good enough reason to.

 

I tried MX black and certainly prefer the browns as a rounded option.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm going for Brown. Blacks are the linear version like red, but with double the pressure, I believe. Brown is the same pressure as red, but designed to have more tactile to it, but without the extra piece that blue has.

I'm also looking at the ducky you mentioned. I do like it being set independent of software!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

I want yellow, with black stripes. Chrome tips add a nice touch.

 

Blues are definitely louder than the browns, but they have this satisfactory click. The browns have almost the same feel, but without the loud click.

 

The best ones make a faint sound that is much like that of a whoopy cushion, which is so subtle that is only audible in quiet places, like a library.

 

TVS e-gold, original cherry MX blue keyboard for under 30$! Sadly (not for me ) it only retails in India

Sent from my Micromax AQ4501 using Tapatalk

 

Duude ! I still have that keyboard from my high school days. It is one freaking amazing piece of manufacturing, specially for the price. I can afford better ones now, but the only thing was wrong with it was the slight key wobble. Other than that, legendary.

 

The only keyboard around in my high school days was a manual typewriter.

 

It's not that I despise BGA in general, it surely has its uses. But not in a gaming rig which is advertised for Performance!

The Problem with BGA is, that due to the slim design of the Notebook a proper cooling solution is not possible (yet). Therefore all ultraslim, lightweight BGA Gaming Notebooks are crippled and not able to utilize all the power it theoratically could be able to due to throttling (thermal and/or power related). What makes me angry is, that the manufacturers follows and saturate the Mainstream for lighter, thinner devices by advertising lies as "new" features like throttling for protecting the devices being damaged and therefore cripple their Performance. It throttles due to the inability to proper cooling the components, which in return is the result or Price you pay for having a nice and thin and superdupa light Notebook which performs like crap other than being ultraportable and looking good.

Second: with BGA you have to buy new Hardware on a regular Basis and throw away the old device other than customize your rig for your needs. I don't like conformity and being unable to use my rig as I intend to and not the other way around. It reminds me of East Germany with their "Trabbies". To have no choice and getting a car which is crap and is forced to you buying it.

So yeah! BGA and Gaming/Enthusiast is CRAP!

 

The problem with BGA is... if more and more people begin to buy such trash without knowing what they buy. Then will computer OEM's such as Dell, MSI, Asus, Acer, Razer +++ designing / producing much more of similar garbage... You will then never ever get rid of this junk... It's like if you get a disease that you'll never get rid of. Your illness will be only worse and worse. Finally, you die... Same as real proper socket hardware. Don't come here and say <it surely has its uses>

 

Ah, I see! No mercy and "Pow, right in the kisser", then! Aye, Cap'n!

 

Hahaha!!! Lol!!!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Edit: "bang, zoom, to the moon, Alice!"

 

LOL. My first PC, an 8088, was invented a few years after I graduated from high school. I was lucky though... I had an electric typewriter in high school. It was so high tech at the time.

EXACT-A-MUNDO. BGA must die! No forgiveness... no wiggle room... no mercy and no place for it. Because it cannot be contained and tends to creep into places where it does not belong, this filth needs to be eradicated completely. To those that say they don't like thick, I say, "Get an iPad." But, don't go away mad... just go away.

 

Good People,

Excuse me for budding in, do you know where I could get a pdf of the CLEVO P870DM-G service manual?

Thank you!

 

I wonder if anyone will make a gaming tablet with socketed CPU and RAM and SSD. That would probably make it pretty thick, but would be fun to have one just for the fun of it.


And about BGA, it is horrible. Just horrible. They created a reason to change entire laptops at a time period, and think that they can be done with us power laptop users. On the other hand, after 4-5 years, you also need to change the display, so going full modularity would be even better. I want to have from where to chose what fits best, not to chose an entire product that is crippled anyways.

And this is why I like P870. At least they offer a 4K display too, not only the FHD one.

 

I remember going to my friend's house and hacking around on his Commodore-64. We thought we were so cool that we could write 'code' and make it beep!

 

https://repo.palkeo.com/clevo-mirror/P870DMG/

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

When I was little it was the BBC micro (with tape drive!) that I played around with, my mum used to program games in for us.

Our first x86 computer was a 486 DX2 based machine with a 100mb HDD.

 

Thank you very very much. I had a heck of a time on Google and after many hours
still could not find the manual.

 

The first system we had in the house was an 8088. I remember all of the x86 systems. I played so many apogee games back then and sabatour, bowling, etc. I had a desktop in my room by 93 or 94 with a 386 sx with math co! I later had a 486 sx 66 with 4mb ram while testing Windows 95...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Bump, Does any1 else is experience this? These keys are almost unusable... Tomorrow I'll upload video of sound that it makes... Edge of insanity. Im asking for answer, not only "Clevo makes worst keyboard ever" since keyboard itself is good. Chassis sucks as hell... I just want to know if this is normal (to be precise: these keys always bend and make very loud sound?).

 

My 8088 replacement was a 486SX purchased at Costco for what seemed like a ginormous amount of money (young man, young wife, early career path with a rapidly growing family may have skewed my perception of the cost - everything was out of budget then) which I later upgraded with an Evergreen Technologies (remember them?) DX co-processor. I remember cursing Windows 1.0, 3.1 and 3.11 as being demonic McIntosh clone OSes and swore that real men only used DOS. It wasn't until Windows 98 that I surrendered to the "machine" with the sissy-girl UI.

Ah yes... Commander Keen and Goodbye Galaxy was one of my first. Apogee was awesome... still remember typing 'keen4e.exe' and 'wolf3d.exe' from a command prompt on my employer's laptop when I was out in the field where nobody could see I had games installed on the cream-colored Compaq (pre-HP days) 286 portable. I thought I was hot stuff and high tech with that laptop and my "bag phone" (cell phone that doubled as a center console arm rest it was so huge). When I got my battery-powered dot matrix printer with a cigarette-lighter charger and tractor-feed paper I knew for sure I had reached the apex of awesomeness.

No, I have never experienced this with the Sky X9 or Panther keyboards. Mine seem fine. I have no issues with them.

 

See, true to Microsoft's form, Windows 95 beta was WAY BETTER than the released build!!! Started with dos, jumped to Windows at 3.0, then 3.1, then 3.11 for workgroups... At least you didn't start with the abomination that was ME! Talk about turning you to Linux forever!!! I primarily used dos until Windows 95. Including word perfect and lotus 1-2-3.

I used to play those games all the time, along with catacombs and I can't remember the name of the game flying a starship going across the screen. Then the first masters of Orion (MoO), Dune... Memory lane! I was still a young pup and remember using a blanket draped over the desk and chair to feel like I was in a cockpit to play that starship game...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, Millenium Edition was pretty icky. I didn't really start to appreciate Windows that much until XP. XP was awesome. Windows 2000 Pro was good for me, and I had no issue at all with Vista. But, of course Windows 7 is the best OS of all time. Windows 8/8.1/10 are all the modern equivalent of ME (malware edition).

 

I remember I was like 8 and I was using 2000 to play chess? God seems like so long ago.

 

I went to Windows XP to 2000 NT, which worked beautifully. Went back to XP, then jumped to Win 7, skipping Vista entirely. Skipped Windows 8/8.1. Beta tested win 10 tech preview and loved it. Had such high hopes. Then they switched to insider and killed it with spyware. The final nail was killing my laptop. I did considered going back, then a person had the exact same thing happen to their system that happened to mine this past month. I decided to avoid it until I upgrade the MB and screen to an eDP version. Wondering if, when it is more common, the chi mei 4K will fit in the ZM. Supposedly the AUO won't fit because the eDP port on the display is positioned too low. But, considering it is primarily lvds displays plagued, I'll wait on it (about $650 for that upgrade, but waiting for a more cost effective video card upgrade that can drive a 4K display easily).

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

dude the more on type of this piece of trash keyboard, the more crazy ideas I get. I am almost about to sell this beast of a machine that I have and get a BGA Alienware 17.3 inch or perhaps an Acer Predator just for the keyboard. I still have to correct 10s of words while typing and I've had it for 5 months now. Never in my life had I typed on a worse keyboard really.

 

My first computer that I owned was a celeron 333a with 4mb AGP card, I went to a pentium II 400 with new motherboard after that as it was all hot glued inside. My first real GPU was a voodoo3 3000 which i saved up for out of my pocket money for most of a year, later I moved to a radeon 8500 (in the same computer). Before that I had spent £100 on a 128mb stick of ram to go from 64mb to 192mb. It was a huge upgrade for loading times in games like kingpin.

Good times

 

Is it that most people don't know or don't care? Certainly some of the former, but I think there is an awful lot of the latter mixed in - just check out some of the other forums here that are also for performance PCs. Most people just want to game and not benchmark or aren't enthusiasts. When I got my M18X, I had no clue what it could do until I started reading these forums and becoming an enthusiast (and this was after owning an M15X for 2 years) and trying my hand at overclocking and upgrades.

I agree with @Georgel in that if you have two similiar machines, same price, and BGA vs. socket, I would choose the non BGA - but I had the pleasure of upgrading my M18X to the 680m's (thank you Mr. Fox for your videos and tips years ago) and wanted to make sure that whatever I got for my newest gaming computer had MXM so that I can do that again in the future (and stretch it over 4 years). You cant fault a manufacturer for making something cheaper for them and at greater margin if consumers dont care. Dell, MSI, Asus, Razer are designing and selling products that cater to the market, and unfortunately enthusiasts are always going to be on one side of the spectrum and have a harder time moving the impact needle.

And, good or bad, those BGA products to serve a purpose. If there was a non BGA available with the same profile/weight/performance of the Razer, I wasnt aware it, would look into it when I look for the inevitable replacement (which is a non-issue for me because I have 3 sons who gladly take whatever computers/tablets/phones I am done with ). Again, I bet most Razer buyers dont care if they get an 8000 or 9000 3dMark score.

Since we are using analogies - I have a manual sports car, and have only ever driven stick shift cars. Does that make all automatic sports cars bad or do they serve a simiilar purpose but with a different way of achieving the same goal? Are those cars (or drivers really) lesser because they opted for an automatic?

 

This becomes a bit too flimsy comparison. A sports car with a manual or automatic can have allmost the same performance today + the selection of both is much greater. A BGA machine vs socket becomes a completely different world... What would you say if you had to replace the engine, drivetrain, wheels and front suspension if you got problem with your manual transmission? While your neighbor who had the car with automatic only needing to replace the automatic transmission in his car? Or put it another way... You have to replace all parts on your car as opposed to your neighbor? Of course you can blame the computer manufacturer for creating JUNK.