*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

Can you post a pic of your CSM configuration and also the boot menu where you select the DVD?

 

If gsync wasn't the problem, then a throttling EC was. The stock non-throttle EC isn't the one that most companies provide by default, and OriginPC most certainly doesn't know enough about their systems from what I've seen over the years with them.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a paid ad, but... they certainly generally don't know what they're doing for the most part. I've yet to see one of these reviewers even use max fans for a clevo >_>. But honestly they'd have needed the non-throttle EC and I don't think they have it, so the GT83VR would outperform that notebook in most tests even if they did fix the gsync issue.

It's why I say every single laptop review that comes from a random youtuber or website like that is pointless. They don't know what they're doing, don't review the laptops well, and don't add NEARLY enough information. All you should be taking from reviews of laptops is raw numbers, like how Notebookcheck does the screen reviews, or battery life tests, etc? Those are numbers to take. For non-clevos they don't generally need to enable max fans, so you can take temperature tests from those as well.

What EC is it using? I think if it's using the non-throttling one (1.05.04 I think) it would be fine.

 

Oh its the 1.06.00 from the kaby lake update

 

I heard that thing is throttle-prone. But Prema showed his stock run, did you post any?

 

I think he meant every stock EC is throttle prone hmm :/
I'll post one soon once I get my hands on it again.

 

The 1.05.04 EC is not throttle-y. But that's more because it's bugged, lol.

Looking forward to the EC; it should basically match Prema's run =D

 

Thank you for the info! Any idea if I can downgrade safely?
Thanks.

 

Not if you have a Kaby Lake in there. Then you need either the Kaby Lake BIOS/EC or the Prema mod.

 

1.06.xx BIOS / EC & ME 11.0 work hand in hand
1.05.xx BIOS / EC & ME 11.6 work hand in hand

Don't mix them!

 

Wonderful many thanks.

 

This is Clevo update SOP:

Spoiler

 

^ only needed to refresh seven times to see that

 

Guess the reason behind that is different nvram data?

 

Not at all, nvram gets wiped during flash. It's a bit more complex...

 

Here's a too good to be true deal, but, it may be true. Or not. I don't know if I'm helping or hindering the community here. But I saw this: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/sys/5968569159.html

 

well someone might buy it but i think its a rip off even at 1400$ especially given that its soldered junk

 

It beats that configuration in your signature

 

i havent updated my signature for a long time, besides, that rig is optimized for cpu work load and mass storage. that laptop can't fit 5x 2.5" and msata can it?

 

Yet you can't imagine other systems tuned to other needs?

 

sure can, just that 6820hk overclocked to 4.3ghz will be around 4.7ghz ivy. in terms of graphics it prob wins other than that, portability & iGP? of course i was commenting based on how i think of it, small display, low storage space and bga etc, not my cup of tea.

 

This is all strictly firmware right? Because I'm on 1.06.01PM but I'm using the ME 11.6 software.

 

Sure, just use the latest stable software with whatever firmware is on there, it contains all previous patches in order to run properly.
I only mentioned it because people had a bunch of bricks by up/down-grades and partial flashing of posted update files in the past week and I see those threads, which also contained the warnings not to mix files, have now been deleted...I guess to stop more people from flashing those files and causing more bricks.

 

Actually you'd need about 5.1GHz to match 4.3GHz on a skylake.

 

depends on what benchmark u run with i guess? multithreaded it performs a bit better than single threaded. i take 13% single threaded over ivy core per core performance on the same frequency, with legacy software, non new instruction sse/avx etc

 

Skylake is 25-30% above Sandy Bridge. Ivy Bridge is about 7% faster than Sandy Bridge, so skylake should be 16% to 19% faster than Ivy Bridge. Even at 16% it's still 5GHz needed to match it. With 19% you need slightly over 5.1GHz. I just compromised. Each gen indeed has been an incremental upgrade in performance, I won't deny that. But people are a *little* too overestimating toward Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. They're still great CPU architectures, and I'd honestly take an Ivy Bridge XM over a Haswell MX, but they're not still so close in performance. And then DDR4 is going to make even more of a difference when laptop RAM actually gets decent.

 

what the heck. skylake is at most %20 faster than sandy. going by percentage isn't exactly accurate though, only need to run a quick benchmark at same frequency and compare, do that multiple times with different software and have a better idea. cinebench r15 single threaded shows around 12-13% and thats with all new ddr4 ram and stuff.

as for ram, i'd only take capacity and power consumption as the only plus in ddr4, not so much in the performance area. having high bandwidth is good too, when it comes to avx workload, the high latency kinda kills it though

 

I was going off direct comparisons at the same clockspeeds. I don't remember where I found them right now, but that was it. Some tests (mostly gaming ones) tended to range around 20% difference, but the highest was 30%. The average is 25%. Games rely on other things though. The best way to check pure differences is Skylake with DDR3L vs Sandy Bridge also using the same RAM, both preferably at 2133MHz. But it isn't 13% clock-for-clock.

DDR3 tops out around 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31 dual channel for out-of-the-box sticks. DDR4 has 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 dual channel and quad channel out of the box. It's a straight, massive upgrade. DDR4 is now entering the realm where DDR3 can't catch up and I now consider it a solid upgrade. Laptops have yet to arrive there yet though, our best is still 16-18-18-43 3200MHz, and I think not so stable. Good RAM is so beneficial that a 4.8GHz 7700K with 2133Mhz 15-15-15-35 (basic) DDR4 RAM loses to a stock 7700K with 3000MHz RAM with unlisted timings. By a large margin too.

 

anand got some pretty decent comparison but donno how accurate they are as some numbers they taken is from long ago to. ddr3 to ddr4 upgrade gives smallest improvement to computing unless you need massive amount of bandwidth for a very selective software to see the benefits, ie video editing, software that takes advantage of avx extension.

 

It makes a good difference in games. Programs that are not RAM-focused is different, same for programs that are like video editing.

DDR4 has good enough RAM now (for desktops anyway) that I consider DDR3 to be effectively the worse choice if you want the best performance. Previously I said 4790K and 2133MHz good-timing RAM was the way to go, because DDR4 had insane timings of cl18 for 3000MHz. Now they're at cl14 for 3200MHz. The timings are low enough that the speed cascades into top notch usefulness.

 

strange thing is, with most of the review ive read, 4790k got best gaming performance even put up against skylake, and by using same ram or ddr3 with 4790k theres barely any difference, maybe a few selected games? dont get me wrong ddr4 is great cause max capacity at 64GB is pretty amazing, same with 1.2v low power.

 

When the 4790K came out, stock v stock, it was 4.2GHz vs 4GHz and people were testing 2133MHz 15-15-15-35 RAM in the 6700K, hindering it greatly. I watched those extensively, and I found that there was no point to get Skylake as a result.

NOW, I wouldn't recommend a 4790K unless someone needed the cheapest way out (good DDR3 is still cheaper than good DDR4, and cheaper motherboards can be used to OC 4790Ks due to FIVR)... Skylake OCs easier/further with less heat and power draw and DDR4 has surpassed DDR3.

I wouldn't have a haswell user upgrade to Skylake or Kaby Lake, however someone wanting the best stuff or isn't running near 5GHz for their Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge I'd suggest take an upgrade. Especially Sandy Bridge, as its max memory speed is 2133MHz, and use PCI/e 2.0.

 

You're also supposed to have Nvidia Control Panel Global 3D setting "V-sync" enabled, and game V-sync disabled.

If you don't set Global V-sync with G-sync enable on some games you will greatly exceed the screen refresh rate of 120hz -> 120 FPS, but on other games your FPS can randomly drop below "normal" and / or have other performance anomalies - like not even reaching FPS matching the refresh hz.

Lots of weird performance anomalies have been solved by setting Global Vsync On.

Fast V-sync, why? The panel isn't going to increase it's refresh rate. How would it know what the maximum refresh capable over 120hz would be? You need to experiment to find that OC value.

I can imagine maybe fine tuning the refresh around max FPS without G-sync, but you'd still want V-sync On not Fast Vsync so as to "sync" with refresh rate.

 

Prema, Papusan, Mr. Fox or all other

Hi guys,

Question: Could you have a MSI GTX 1080 mobile with the Clevo BIOS flash?
And would then run on the P870DM3G?

That would be interesting for SLI!

 

How is SLIC data preserved for example? I remember making full dump of the bios chip with the p150sm for fixing bios, flashing image without previous nvram data didn't work, guess this series is different in someway? :curious:

 

Does anyone have a copy of a ICC Profile for the AUO B173HAN01.2 (FHD, 120hz, non-gsync) that I could have? Thanks!

 

If we alter anything in the BIOS and force it on the chip it'll fail during next security check trigger and halt post (brick the system).

 

+1 would be really kind.

 

Guys! T_T
I delidded my 6700K in my Sager NP9873, and the CPU is a piece of paperweight now. The scalpel damaged the PCB and I can see exposed copper, and no surprise the laptop won't POST anymore.

So now I need to buy a new CPU, and I decided to go with Kaby Lake. Question is I don't know whether my motherboard will support Kaby Lake chips or not since it need a BIOS update. What will happen if I just slot in a, let's say, a 7700, will it work?

If it won't, my only option will be to borrow a Skylake chip and update the BIOS, and then use the new CPU? Is that right?
Thanks a lot...

English is not my native language by the way, so apologise for anything weird.

 

You will need firmware for Kaby lake. Speak with your reseller. Start to borrow a Skylake chip.

 

Crap... I should probably just settle with a i7-6700 non-K.
There're many used options too.

 

I was going to give you a link to SiliconLottery Skylake CPU's, but it looks like they have completely dropped them for a Kabylake only inventory:
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/lga-1151

 

Yes I know that website, but unfortunately I live in the UK and seems it's a American website, I need my computer running again ASAP.

By the way, I am always skeptical about their claims. They say they apply Liquid metal TIM for you and glue the IHS back on, so we can use it as a regular CPU. Sounds great but people say liquid metal TIM will degrade after some time and need to be redone once in a while. Sometimes liquid metal will even flow out of place causing overheat, so leaving the IHS 'floating' is better.

 

It's one of the best applications of LM, the IHS is pressed down onto the carrier helping to seal in the LM so it won't migrate and corrode components on the motherboard. That seal should protect it from oxidizing as well.

Where LM can get dangerous is finding that fine line of "enough" vs "too much" on an open edged heatsink/IHS meeting, same for non-canned dies.

Not to mention the "flicking" effect of application causing tiny particles to get atomized and air-borne, and then migrate to other components or even worse into our lungs.

It's also good to apply LM off the laptop, and application on a removed IHS application is ideal, way off the motherboard.

IDK where in the UK you can get parts, but check the local "marketplace" listings for people selling from their tray's of CPU's - likely selling lower binned parts to recoup costs, but for a hopefully rewarding savings

Intel i7 7700k kaby lake - $280 (danville / san ramon)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/sop/5964928081.html

 

Do not listen to everything that is said. I have the same old CoolLaboratory Liquid Ultra on my 4930mx chips from Feb - 2014. No problem... Count on that SL know exactly what they're doing.

 

How it degrades or fares depends entirely on the heatsink. A sealed chip or great-contact heatsink will not degrade anything. I had it for 1.5 years on my main GPU and it was still completely perfect when I removed it after the GPU died for an unrelated reason.

Edit: forgot to list a comparison... the paste on my CPU was dried to all hell after about a year though. It needed re-application, but my CPU heatsink is not very good.

If they're sealing it inside there, I suspect it'll be perfectly fine for many years to come (especially since very little air will be getting in/out).

 

When you call Sager Tech support ask to speak with Allen. He is the one who sent me the bios for the 7700K.

 

I'm bringing bad news for those hoping that nano silver paste would provide superior thermal conductivity over CLU. At it's current state, the material is not usable for our needs as there still doesn't exist application technology that would provide homogenous contact surface. We've tested two samples:
1. pressure-less paste - this one requires at least 200°C for activation, therefore, not useable
2. conventional paste that requires high pressure for creation of sufficient thermal link. Even after application 15MPa of pressure, the contact area had many pores and the surface was far from homogenous. It works well only for very small applications.
So far it looks like that we will have to wait until this material will evolve. This one is currently just in experimental state, so maybe after some time we will be able to test it on our computers.

 

That's what I had feared after reading the spec sheet... It would require curing or excessive pressure to be a good enough benefit. But kudos for trying something new!!

 

@ ALL P870DMx KabyLake user:

NVIDIA has finally updated their driver to support us natively without .inf Mods:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-geforce-drivers-378-49.800767/#post-10443751

 

no worries mate, just get yourself the cheapest socket 1151 cpu you can find, flash bios update and then give it back once your 7700K is installed itll set you back like 30-40 €, thats it