*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

Sorry, I more meant it as agreeing that he shouldnt sell his second card if he is on 4k.

@Rage Set are you on 4k?

BTW: fast sync lower benchmarks score if you can hit 120+fps.

 

Get the ocz nvme or the sm961! Better hard drives if that's what you are going with. Check the comparison on ssdreview!

Also, why get the 2800 instead of the 3000 or 3333 g. Skill? If you are going for ram, get the better. Talk to the reseller to get those of you want their warranty. Otherwise, buy them and have manufacturer's warranty. Also see if they have compatibility issues (some did awhile back, but don't know if fixed since the dm).

As far as lending goes, I'll volunteer for this sacrifice of labor and send it back no worse for wear (hopefully the cpu is delided when you get it our you give permission to delid and lap)...

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That's a symptom of slothful game developers that cater garbage in mass quantities to console peasants and the wayward offspring of PC gamers who have lost their elitist mojo.

Today's it's SLI... tomorrow something else will become unpopular, like using too much electricity for gaming. Having a good job with nice benefits and working hard to get ahead in a work environment that offers performance-based compensation will be viewed as acts of bigotry. It will be a crime to own powerful computers, fast cars and guns because those things are known to cause global warming and cancer. Drinking large sodas pops, eating whatever you feel like eating, using tobacco in any form (recreational marijuana will still be OK) and playing violent video games will be against the law... Bugs Bunny, Yosemite Sam, Roadrunner and Tom and Jerry cartoons will be identified as major contributors to child-bullying and teen violence, so they will be banned. But, that's OK because clinical studies by the world's top psychologists have shown that vulgar trash TV sitcoms promote tolerance and help build self-esteem. As such, those are perfectly acceptable as primetime entertainment for children of any age. Then they'll come after the rest of us for not embracing change.

 

I didn't see the 3333 on Newegg, only the 2800 and 3000. I was going with the Samsung 950 because of the better warranty. I'm ALL about the best warranties (you'll notice that once you get to know me). I seem to be unlucky with my tech for whatever reason. At this point, I'm reading up about everything so I can get the best possible build with the best possible price. My overall budget for this DTR is 5500 (barebones is going to cost me a little over 4k).

Btw, I'm not going with 4k. No reason to at this point. I won't truly invest into 4k until a single card can handle all games at 60+. We are almost there. Maybe in two cycles.

 

Should be 6k or 8k by then lol.

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Yeah, tell me about it. All of this talk about 4k, 8k and the majority of gamers are still, comfortably mind you, at 1080p.

 

What is your opinion of delidding a cpu? It voids the cpu warranty from Intel. You may be able to get it delidded from your reseller our ask them if you can delid and maintain warranty on the other components. No matter what your contact that says it is ok, get it in writing unless already written in the warranty.

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As the infamous @Mr. Fox has stated, the CPU is replaceable. I asked about about delidded CPU's earlier in this thread and if I should get one...pertaining to gaming of course. The majority have stated that I should just get a "normal" unlocked 6700K. However, after the 6 months of play, I will leave it up to the bencher to decide if delidding will fit the bill.

 

I don't know if you remember all this nonsense that was posted earlier in the forum... Some sort of clever heads here, said that newer laptops would be delivered with a weaker Power supply. One of the reasons was more BGA and less need for more powerful PSU. Aka all the talk about Tree hugger's - taking care of the climate and the need for use of lower power consumption <conversation in our community>? So wrong they take on this!! It became the totally opposite with pascal and desktop core i7, LOL

 

I think i forgot to add the /s

 

I was thinking similarly. Since Rage Set is waiting for the 120hz 1080p screen like me, the 960 Pro might be available by then. The SM961 can be found on ebay now but no warranty and the 960 Pro will be faster. Even the SM961 is significantly faster than the 950 Pro, so the 960 Pro should be great.
http://tssdr1.thessdreview1.netdna-...016/06/Samsung-SSD-Comparison-Chart-pcper.png

Or, maybe by Clevo will come out with the 1440 120hz G-Sync screen that PrimeTimeAction mentioned. That would be awesome. I would gladly do that if it were an option:

 

There are two issues that got conflated here. All HEAVY benchers delid! Whether or not they got a binned CPU, most have not. Most have delidded the CPU themselves. One of the best things that can be done for heat (and thereby longevity). I can still understand leaving it to someone else. But wanted to clarify that point.

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Indeed. I think a lot of people forget that there are more reasons to benching than in just trying increase the size of their non important / nor relevant e-peen, vs. benching to see what one can obtain for practical use.

Benching is indeed a sport / hobby and I get the kicks out of it as much as many of the enthusiasts do, however, where the humbleness shifts that separate the good sports from the not so good sports is when one has to start bashing on others in a completely different league (mobile vs desktop) to make themselves feel better. If everyone can be a good sport about it, that would be great. I hope to see more of that as it's more fun that way.

Apples to Oranges. If my kid started to classify an apple as being an orange and an orange being an apple and swore by it, I would take him in to get examined. It's that simple, yet it's occurring here so I am just baffled.

A 6700K should be compared to a 6700K LOL, not 6700K vs 6820HK... is that hard to comprehend?

 

IDK man, the influence of BGA laptops will more likely cause this future outcome:

Idiocracy...

Spoiler

 

Yes the TDP at that range is not good, but that doesn't mean that all platforms running at that speed runs hot. To be fair, it all depends on the system and how well it can cool the hot potato.

A respectable overclock in a desktop / (even DTR with superior fans) vs a mobile platform is very subjective. To be able to even reach an OC at a range above what is advertised in a mobile platform is a good thing and honestly, because it's not something you see everyday in a mobile platform, if it can do it...heck I'll take it, efficient or not. That doesn't make it not respectable as thinking so is only an opinion, because to others it can mean a bonus to have that even possible, on a mobile platform.

Moral of the story....I'll take whatever I can achieve in a mobile platform, hot or not, bad mpg or not...whatever it is above and beyond is just a bonus.

For the record, I am not condoning bga in a true gaming laptop in anyway; of course a dtr is the way to go for portable true power house break down the roof gaming. (But not everyone needs that power to play minor games.) It's sad see the meaning of a true gaming laptop diminish by the communist act of bga'ing amazing chips like the Pascal line up, but the only remedy I foresee in the future is to make sure you have a darn good warranty if we all end up in a trap one day. Let that not be beneath us for that to happen, or we'll be stuck on the current dtr offerings forever. Better cherish that piece.

 

DTR ARE MOBILE! They are a special class of mobile, but mobile ask the same. When companies are claiming bga chips as DTR, then DTRs are compared as apples to apples. When you compare those two processors, one that is from an actual desktop and one a mobile platform, in desktop replacements, you are comparing different categories of apples. Some are sweet and made for directly eating the fruits of your overclocking labor, others are meant to bake into pies, and if ran at the same frequency, you could cook a pie on before it dies at a much lower frequency!

Cooling system variance is a point, but this **** on those processors not being comparable is bs, except for the fact one clearly outperforms the other!

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I beg to differ.

A 6700K (Desktop) is not a 6820HK (Mobile).

Are you seriously stating that those two are equal? If so, that is indeed bs

Let's not get too off track here...what was being described is not hard to comprehend.

A car with a V10 engine is not the same as a car with a 4 cylinder engine. Yet, they are both cars.







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If you call a 4 cylinder a sports car or a race car, now it is time to compare a 10 cylinder and a 4 cylinder! The second they called those chips in a laptop a DTR, you put them in the ring with other DTRs. Just because you have a 4 banger and a 10 cylinder behemoth does not mean they don't get compared! Just goes to show they shouldn't be thrown in the same class because one obviously stomps the **** out of the other!

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I believe you are missing the point here.

Facts:

* A Desktop chip 6700K is not the same as a Mobile 6820HK.

If you wish to believe that they are, then I can't help you any further in trying to explain this fact.

I think you are getting heavily confused in that I am not even talking about the chassis of a platform, rather the components inside which make up the machine itself.

* Just because a company calls their laptop a DTR, does not mean that it's a DTR. LOL...We all know this...BTW what mainstream company is calling their gaming laptops a DTR? (Please don't say Clevo/EuroCom/EVOC etc..) that's not what I mean. I'm talking about the AW's, MSI's etc..

* My reference in the mobile 6820HK, if you want to get specific, is founded on the laptop that I own, which is an Alienware 17R3 that has a mobile 6820HK. This is a gaming laptop, not a DTR!

* Even Dellienware states, "Gaming Laptop, not DTR."

* MSI's flagship GT Series laptop with 1080 SLI is referred to as a, "gaming notebook," not DTR.

* For anyone to feel big or accomplished in any shape or form in comparing a mobile chip to desktop chip...well there's a lot that's in question right there with that individual, because the difference is something a child would be able to comprehend. With all sincerity.

Oh and for the record, there are 4 cylinder turbo charged cars at the track that can run with and or faster than a V10 at the track in the 1/4. It's all about tuning. But let's stick with computer stuff here shall we...

 

Proof that a 4 banger can be categorized as a sports car our racing car and it be appropriate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Atom

If you do it right, then the comparison is proper, otherwise, it is categorized incorrectly!

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Oh gosh...mmm...I am a bit speechless because you are completely missing the point here.

Please read the post above.

 

No, you seem to miss the point. Platform to platform comparison. The engine is one component and desktop chips in laptops have restrictions on performance due to cooling limitations. Limits are limits! A 10 cylinder in an atom wouldn't perform as well as the lighter engines, even with more power. The fact that a bigger engine in a specific chassis performs better than a different engine in a different chassis doesn't lessen the comparison. We aren't comparing jet planes to cars here (desktop cooling or ln2), we are comparing engines within similarly restricted cooling forms. There are times it doesn't work. Look at the problem with cooling the 4790k in the zm upon release and some running into the 90s at stock or even 4.2ghz after a little bit of tuning! Are you saying that doesn't compare with a 4.2ghz 6820hk? Sounds like you are missing the point here!

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Actually not as you are replying to my posts that have a clear meaning and purpose behind it. Then after the car analogy, which was a big mistake btw, you're getting way off track with it.

Okay, to be fair... two properly tuned cars with two different engines can compete, within reason. (I'm agreeing with you here...)

However...

With me agreeing with you also sheds light to something else in that a mobile CPU like the 6820HK can hang with a desktop 6700K in someway, shape or form...follow me?

Now with that being said, based on your misunderstanding of the point in whole and with my understanding of your misunderstanding, by default you're agreeing to the following:

* The 6820HK is a mobile chip. (In a lighter weight division than the heavy weight division.)

* The 6700K is a desktop chip. (The heavy weight division.)

* Pound for pound, there should be absolutely no contest, lets say in this boxing match.

* By you're misunderstanding and my understanding of how you're choosing to see it means....that anything the mobile 6820HK (lighter weight division) can do to compete with the heavy weight (6700K desktop chip) is
impressive regardless of opinion.

This is the conclusion of the facts. It's okay to agree to disagree, but when you miss the point all together, then that's bordering on something all together. I can't help you there mate.

 

I haven't necessarily seen that to be true:

 

When the average overclock of desktop chips is limited by heat, it is limited, even though it performs to spec in the device.

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Oh, I agree it's not going to overclock as well as a desktop, but I'm still impressed with the fact that laptops have actually come as far as they have today and actually support desktop CPUs and desktop GPUs in them. If someone said that even 10 years ago, they would have been seen as crazy. These days a laptop with a 6700k and SLI GTX 1080s would smoke most desktops, that's incredibly impressive to me. Technology is amazing.

 

Btw, stop with the condescension. I know what you are saying and am rejecting the premise while proving the analogies for comparison wrong.

Now, you are saying that they compete in different classes. Comparing to boxing is better, but I put them as a welter weight versus a heavy weight. Now, in martial arts, that distinction matters less, but still matters, but let's keep with boxing.

The problem I have is companies calling these high end gaming machines, a space also occupied by DTRs. So, when advertised as high end and costing the same or more than a DTR in some cases, it may be worth comparing. The welterweight champion can hang with some heavy weights, but not the champ.

Now, what the goal of the people here in bashing and showing how bad the two compare is trying to get the masses to realize they are not getting their money's worth by purchasing lower performing chips. If they purchase on another basis, fine. But if it is on performance, and many here have seen people with bga chips try to hang with the heavy weights, then they need put in their place. If a welterweight shows they can hang, then props will be given for what it is and has done. That does not mean it will ever be seen as equal, and we've seen people try. We are performance nuts, true enthusiasts. If we see less, we call it!

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Fair enough. And I'm not condescending by the way, just clarifying. We're on the same team mate.

I completely agree in that a company that rocks a 6700HQ and a 970M, or even a 965M should never be allowed to be called a high end gaming laptop.

However, do understand that a dtr really is in a class of its own. The only commonality in terms of form is that you can too pack it up and be on the go in seconds, compared to a desktop. Now compared to a gaming laptop, that's another story.

Classes that are being referenced:
1. Desktops [A]
2. Desktop Replacements. (Portable)
3. Gaming Laptops. (Portable) [C]

A + B does not equal C

B + C does not equal A

A + C = B

In terms of power, very different. However, with the release of Pascal, the gap has narrowed with:

C =almost= equalling B, in terms of performance.

If we're taking gaming, there will be little to no difference between:

DTR: 6700K + 1080 or SLI

VS

Pascal Gaming Laptop: 6820HK + 1080 or SLI.

We are not talking 980M VS 980 desktop card anymore.

Times have changed. However, what has not changed is that bga is absolutely terrible at DTR prices. Even at cheaper prices a bga is still a very limiting purchase. (Subjective of course.)

I've clearly stated this in one of my threads informing all new comers to shy away and not support such companies who are trying to charge DTR prices for their bga pascal laptops.

Ok so if you consider me a welterweight with what I've shown with a bga 6820HK, so be it. I've shown OC potentials, benchmarks and stability all out of the love of pushing things to the limit. NOT because I condone bga.

(All for the art of the sport / hobby.)

Despite any differences in views, here's something we can agree on.

With the stupidity of MSI, ASUS etc... (AW is TBA until Sept. 2nd - PAX West Event) releasing bga flagships at DTR prices is an absolute no Brainer to not support such idiots. I'll predict, AW...bga cpu and bga Pascal. No go. But, who knows...only Sept. 2nd knows.

bga does serve its purpose whether we like it or not. Phones, Tablets and some ultra portable non gaming laptops.

Different times now that Pascal is here though. It's a battle between two in closer weight classes now than ever before.

Long live socketed DTR's.

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Before 6700k desktop parts were used in performance laptops there were decent mobile chips - ie. 2960xm 3920xm that were pretty much exactly what the quad core k desktop chips were.

 

I have always said that BGA should only be used in Phones, Tablets and some ultra portable non gaming laptops. This is the correct proper use of soldered hardware!! Ingeniously in a phone, but tragic in a high performing laptop!! That's it.

 

Single 1080 (D2) or 1080 SLI (D3)

Is the question running through my head over and over and over again. It's driving me crazy.

* I travel ~2x a month.

Maybe D3 and sell the 1x 1080 to secure upgradability and offset cost for the time being. That way no need to hassle with trying to find heat sink and chassis mods in the future.

Hmm....

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If you get it delidded from the factory like when buying from HIDevolultion, they cover it under their warranty.

 

Just checked some Benchmarks and it seems that single 1080 laptop is enough for every game in 4k and 60fps.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comput...eselect[]=214&gameselect[]=204&gpu_fullname=1

Now that's a cute looking link

At any rate, everyone, from benchers to gamers should be really glad that we have 1080 with us!

 

That single 1080 MXM card is worth many times it's weight in gold today, you could recover a significant % of the cost of the laptop.

The only problem is, what will you pay for the 1080 MXM card replacement when you are ready for SLI?

If the timing is within the manufacturing period of this DM3 model, you might break even. But, if you try to find one after the fact you might need to buy a whole laptop to get one freed up.

 

Another problem is the amount of buyers for a 1080 MXM would be tiny now. They'd be DM2 people looking to upgrade a 1070 ( unlikely this early on) , or DM people looking to try their luck.

 

Benching is actually a way to compare parts against other parts using the exact same pattern. While showing the possibilities of those parts.

Benching is indeed an expensive hobby to say the least. Gaming is a far cheaper hobby, but also more time consuming.

I will agree that a 6820HK should stay going up against other mobiles, but when the users of this mobile think they are on par with desktop cpus, then that whole line of reasoning goes out the window. And that is the case about 70 percent of the time with users that really do not know the difference. Until they are "benchmarked". Then a realization kicks in and reality hits home. A 6700K is not even the best over all DTR chip in a laptop. A 4930K/4960X/Xeon V2's-1620-1660-1680 are. Although it is the cheapest extreme you can buy though.

I understand the need to classify a 6820HK as mobile. Nothing wrong with that, but..... (Yes there is a but) but people think they should be able to pick and chose what they compare. Then make excuses because it's not up to par as the original or full blown product. Then they overclock it and that now makes it something it's not. Like, If i overclock this 6820HK to 4.0 ghz I will have a 6700k. This is about 95% of everyone doing some sort of comparing. Why is it alright to compare then? Don't worry, that argument goes both ways....In a sense that if you down clock a 6700k to match 6820HK specs you can get pretty much the same results. ( I now have a the tdp of a bga so that means better battery life at a better bang for buck. Since the 6820HK cost more than a 6700K)

P570WM3 vs P870DMG
In most overall testing, the P570WM3 beats a P870DMG. Why? Because of it's ability to run an 8 core cpu. And if it could run today's GPU's it would still be King, but it can't so time to move on.
The argument now becomes.....You have 8 cores vs my 4 cores. I have newer tech than you so i'm better. My gpus scores higher than yours, but my overall score is lower so I win. NO! You still lose.
Or
My engine runs 10K RPM And the winning car ran at 7K RPM and won. The guy with the 10K thinks he should win because he ran a higher rpm. NO! You lost. Your overall score is 2 seconds slower. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

So to answer your question...They are not equal. They never ever were equal....Until...people kept over clocking them and acting like they are equal to a 6700k @ stock. And making comments about having a mobile 6700K. That is why this argument keeps being an on going argument.

Yes, that heat sink does look pretty awesome though.

 

Who is crazy enough to kill their new Sli setup, with braking the Sli?

 

I was totally puzzled by that as well. Apparently, someone that can afford to waste lots of money buying something they don't even want and selling pieces of it instead of just spending less money and ordering it configured the way they want it on day one. It's kind of like ordering a new car with the high performance V8 option, paying extra to get that option with the intent of replacing it with a V6 engine.

 

Yeah, we've gotten that exact question a number of times in the GT80* threads.

People want the potential, but can't afford the full bill up front.

Some just wanted the 18" screen or keyboard, but were happy with 1 GPU - little did they know what they were opting out of, losing that 2nd GPU misses the whole point of the laptop.

In the GT80 it's not possible to pull a MXM card out of a GT80 SLI configuration, the cooling components use that MXM card as a mounting point, and the cooling system would flop and flex and crack over time.

It would be nice if Clevo offered a 2 stage purchase of the SLI laptop, especially with the 2nd 1080 costing so much.

 

Dad? Is that you?

 

These temps scare me to be honest. A design flaw sharing the gpu/CPU hs like they are? Our only hope is prema can tweak the bios of the motherboard and gpu's to have them run more efficient and cooler? I think these temps we are seeing not even liquid ultra can make enough difference.

 

I absolutely agree and have thought about that too....availability in the future...it was more so thinking out loud. After all, who doesn't want the biggest and the baddest of the beast eh?

 

I'm actually surprised that a simple reasoning among the many that can be valid is found puzzling? You didn't even take a moment to think about anything?

I wouldn't have expected from an enthusiast, out of all people, especially from one that participates in the W7/W8 threads....getting the hint yet? Then to like a comment to support such a shallow thought is quite surprising.

So you're making the assumption that the future will always continue to support w7/w8 with the new architecture?




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Great reply, thanks mate and I agree with you. It's one expensive hobby indeed, but an enjoyable one at that.

Regarding your last sentence of why this argument keeps on going...well some people tend to think the complete opposite, which baffles me as they don't understand that a mobile chip 6820HK is not equal to a desktop 6700K.

Have you seen the earlier posts from early this morning? Just unreal. I'm with you 100% ...6700K > 6820HK, but some people don't get that and classify them as the same!

 

Perhaps someone crazy enough to be able to afford one. And?

The whole idea was more of a thinking out loud idea due to the uncertainty of the future of Windows. Not everyone wants to fall victim to M$ W10. SMH...

 

Actually that system you are looking for can be bought as a barebones...Meaning a single 1080 and vapor chamber heat shield. As to how well it will work with one card...remains to be seen.(Also, I don't think anyone is going to guarantee it works either)..I may give it a go once my machine shows up.

 

Going through my news feed, the tech media keeps placing "gaming laptops" like the Asus ROG GX800 and Origin EON17-SLX as the best ever. Here's a quote "Video gaming website Kotaku performed some benchmark tests revealing just how powerful the GX800 is. Both the single and dual-GPU laptop models keep up, and sometimes beat a desktop with similar specs."

Now that's funny.

 

Pascal runs up to the thermal limits so not surprising. This machine will want some intelligent tweaking.

 

For me it's not a matter of not being able to flip the bill, it's more so to secure a machine that may be among the last to support W7/W8 I know you're very familiar with this territory.

As for the others, if one can't afford one in the first place, they shouldn't be buying something at this caliber in the first place

Nevertheless, my post was just a thinking out loud blurp about the single or 1080 SLI.

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That would be stellar. Thanks mate.

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