*** Official Clevo P870KM1/P870KM1-G/Sager NP9876 Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 3.0 ***

I can only draw from my own experience and those I know that have owned one. Personally I've had a DM1 and DM3 both with shoddy heatsinks. 100% strike rate right there.

I can't agree with your point above either. This is because out of the people I talk with directly on these forums I've found more of them have had issues far in excess than have not - be it CPU HS or the VC HS. These aren't members just found in 'problem' threads either. They are members I talk with who also took possession.

Just imagine how many people didn't take to the forums and decided either

1) (if they were savvy enough) that these machines run stupid hot for stock clocks. Lesson learnt, and they'll just quietly avoid buying a Clevo on their next purchase.

2) (the general consumer) "wow these machines run too loud" - which I've often stated isn't actually true.
They actually run friggin quiet at stock with good HS contact, especially considering the HP they're putting out.

You don't have to look very far to find dozens of examples of people getting rubbish heatsinks shipped out. The manufacturing tolerances are obviously low. Im a little concerned that Clevo is doomed to repeat these mistakes as you and many others have passed this information up the hierarchy, but nothing has come down.

I'm not directing this as you personally. I'm sure you're fighting the good fight. They should take a leaf out of your book on what you deem as acceptable because that's not what I'm observing being shipped my friend.

 

You mean 99% of Clevo owners?

• CPU 100c without delid, still possibility of bad temperature after delid due to bad heatsink contact,
• CPU contact plate is flimsy, this is why Mr. Fox had to use a soldered shim to prevent the heatsink from bending in the middle,
• IC Diamond still being offered as a PAID UPGRADE, although everybody knows the reason is for lazyness to fix the aforementioned heatsink issue and just use a paste that resist dryout. Oh and scratching dies are ok, NOT.
  
• GPU 82c+ (pascal stops most boost at 80c+, so anything above is unacceptable).
• Vapor chamber needing complete thermal pad rework (lets celebrate most resellers out there won't do it AYYYYY).
• Resellers having excuse using stock factory thermal pad work since they are "clevo approved."
• Reduction in heatpipe count on the KM1 vapor chamber model.
• Reduction in girth/thiccness of KM1 vapor chamber fins (okay this one is still pending explanation).
• Halfassed attempt at making an airflow seal for the problem above.
  
• BIOS limitation of 480w even though machine is marketed as gaming / enthusiast.
• Bad airflow design for bottom cover, why is the middle fan blocked?
• CPU fan is flipped over, look at how small the intakes are for the CPU fan -> https://i.imgur.com/3YKNdny.jpg
• Excessive gap between fan / heatsink fin even before the KM1 model (I really appreciate thigh gap, but not gap between fan and heatsink).
• Software for OS is badly designed and integrates XTU which messes up BIOS requiring a CMOS battery pull or even a full OS wipe @TBoneSan (sadly I have lost the xtu-less installer, and obsidian-tools went paid-only)
• Almost impossible to download drivers from Clevo own website

But nah, lets ignore everything because the manufacturer's TJmax is still within range.

But less and less people are buying Clevos and regarding them as bad computers! I really wonder why?






ps: if anyone still has that xtu-less installer please PM me...

 

Intel making trash lid for Kaby. Don't blame everything on Clevo. Even Bitspower lid sucks!!

 

When desktops have no problem?

¯\_(?)_/¯

 

Higher pressure!! Hit up my and @Mr. Fox lapping results.

 

Actually not quite. The Intel IHS works great. The Clevo Heatsinks , suck. Clevo needs to adapt and improve.

Also weirdly enough lappy my Bitspower IHs did nothing for me. I get better results with my Intel IHS still. Even though the contact on both is perfect.
Both my Heatsink and IHS are lapped.

 

Thinner IHS means better heat transfer?

 

That makes sense. But then im not sure why @Mr. Fox is having great results. I tested Conductonaut, Kryonaut and KingPin Cooling. All 3 of these were within 2C of each other @ 4.8Ghz.
Next step is to try my other CPU heatsink.

 

I don't put everything on Clevo. But they need improving.

Bitspower Skylake lid is thicker and can be lapped.

 

See also my post HERE

 

Nice link me man. I seem not to be getting notified when I'm tagged lately

To be clear. Clevo is the only game in town I'd ever consider for a future laptop. But not before they step up. They win by default since the others are disposables toys. In all honesty that's not the nicest way to win.
Having said that though, they do get a lot right - quite a lot . But I don't see them going to the next level if they keep making excuses rather than acknowledging there is room for improvement.

 

I actually did that test, and mine was weirdly flat.
Both a brand new 7700k IHS and my old one :S

 

I haven't forgotten you bruh. But using a small phone for posting(Vacation) is a damn mess

Maybe this is a lottery also? The silicon lottery, heatsink lottery, the clamp attachment lottery. And the lid lottery

 

@Papusan all good man.. you've been tagging me but the forum isn't passing me the tags as alerts. No idea why.

 

Clevo P9000DMx-G - Jackpot edition.

 

Skylake is hot with the standard thermal paste that intel has used, even in a desktop.

You said you don't want IC diamond and the associated cost and scratched die but then you say it should be default. You can't have it both ways.

Pascal boosts up until 82C then will slowly drop the clock to maintain that temperature, it will not cliff edge like older designs.

I came up with the thermal pad re-layout, thicker pads ensure consistent contact between all units and resellers. It's a trade off that all notebook manufacturers make with larger heatsinks (I started this back in the GT680R days). It has a large vapor chamber that no one comes close to offering.
Sometimes you all make me wish I kept my mouth shut on that mod as it always gets thrown at me.

The heatsink change is still under investigation.

I never got hard proof of wall measured power limits (video of hard benchmarking run and wall power meters showing draw rather than any software would have been ideal) of the EC that I could pass onto sager/clevo for comment from those claiming it so I never had anything to go on it.

To increase airflow under the keyboard and over the M.2 drives and ram.

To increase airflow under the keyboard and over the M.2 drives and ram.

There is no big gap between the heatsink and fins in earlier revisions that I can see.

I personally never ran into the XTU fan bug, which I found irritating as obviously something is going on. XTU was used for a universal kind of interface to the CPU to try and standardise how the software interfaced with the firmware, I guess it could have gone better.

We offer downloads for drivers to everyone on our site.

 

So it should come delidded, as a service to the customer instead of just sticking to the TJmax value and saying it's within the manufacturer's operating range

I'm not saying that ICD should be default, I'm saying that ICD shouldn't even be an option due to the only advantage it has is dryout resistance (and that's why resellers love it).

At 80c you have already lost considerable boost speed

Yes, you use too thick thermal pads to compensate for poorly QC heatsink? I think the heatsink should be fixed first before a compromise is made.

Fair enough

I can show you the 480w power limit using eurocom PSU, fox and bloodhawk experience it with DM3. And you even sided for the bios cripple.



Yes but according to @D2 Ultima and @Mr. Fox the RAM and pcie drive never overheat, according to sensors on my DDR4 ripjaws the modules are under 60c even when fully stressing the system (bottom vent baffle removed, fn+f1, occt+3dmark fsultra sli)

Yes there is, not as big as KM1 but still worth taping up due to the temp improvement gained

I'm saying for Clevo themselves, I am aware that Sager has own website for drivers

 

Delidding is not something Intel is going to stand for in volume and it opens up all sorts of warranty issues.

Engineering and economics is about compromise, as an engineer I wish we could all have the very best materials that exist for all products. However there are trade offs to be made.

And yes how DARE I suggest that some kind of limit is sensible, did I say that 450W sounded the best option? No. I am also not omnipotent I can't read EVERY post as much as I try. Can you link those results to me?

At 80C I believe you have lost around 10% of your maximum boost clock. At around 70C you gain 2% of that clock speed back.

Firestrike is not an SSD benchmark. Loading the GPU and CPU on the other side of the board will have little impact on SSD temps. Turning the fans up to max will draw at least some airflow.

The stock config has to account for all use cases in all climates. If you want to play with that I don't think most resellers will give you much push back on that.

Clevo does not sell direct to end users, the resellers are there to provide the end user facing experience.

 

There are two boost clocks.
Boost 2 clocks start throttling at *42C, IIRC*.-13 mhz for every 5C.
Boost 1 clocks throttle much higher.

 

Not delidding and claiming 99c is within manufacturer is not something that users would tolerate, at that point I would just urge the buyer to return the machine due to faulty performance

Ah sure, sure. Let's market this $3K laptop as an extreme hardcore gaming machine but gimp the power limit so we partially compensate for the crap heatsink contact. Hmmm... And if magically your heatsink is alright, why would you even limit the power consumption on a performance laptop? Not even a BGA jokebook should have that. Maybe you should remove the false advertising and replace it with "partially extreme maybe hardcore gaming machine."

I agree, but a trade off is made when a component is already performing / being produced at an acceptable quality and you wish to pursue an improvement at another aspect. At this moment, Clevo does not have quality nor any acceptable performance to speak of.

@D2 Ultima @bloodhawk @Mr. Fox can comment on the 480w cancer, and I will make a video for you as soon as I get my heatsink back

Anyone here with a removed bottom baffle and an m.2 drive care to show temps? I currently don't have any pcie drive on the KM1

The stock config works in all climates? Talk to D2 ultima and how the stock config works marvelously well on his climate. Or did you simply ignore that tropical countries exist? My GPU is at 86c and CPU 100c when I got the stock KM1 on an ambient temp 22c.

And no service standard that someone needs to adhere to, perfect.





MFW hearing someone say that their Clevo works out of box with acceptable performance.













Oh, and what a really nicely binned laptop that got sent for a very cherry picked review. If only all production laptops sent to customers are like this.

But I guess ensuring tip-top performance on every notebook costs too much manpower and effort.

 

We actually have Sager - 1 x Dm2 and 1 x Dm3, at my work place and both had severe heating issues. Because of our hectic production schedules i convinced Systems Department to let me take care of things.
Only if they listened and bought these from HIDEvolution as i asked them to. @Donald@HIDevolution .

Just because of the issues we faced, and normal high end users finding, what i did to fix those systems way too complicated and time consuming, they hate Clevo Systems now.

 

My CPU would be in the 90s using max fans even playing runescape without delidding at night. With a delid and undervolt (not even using LM between ihs and hs) auto fans doesn't hit 80c anymore in the daytime

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

Still though, I feel sorry for you and the company having to pay 9.25% sales tax to /k/alifornistan.

@Meaker@Sager ¯\_(?)_/¯

 

Let me see if I can make this simple. Clevo needs to understand that if you're going to sell an unlocked machine, it cannot be at its limits when stock. I know there's now a forced -100mV adjustment on the P7 series for Kabylake but this isn't really much of a fix. Either engineering design or improper fit tolerances need improving... likely both. I'm baffled as to how coffee lake is going to fit in this shell, which it inevitably will be selling with.

Down to us calling people like Falcon Northwest and Origin-PC and Digital Storm to ask their tolerances, every single one says 100c is fine, and more than one of them said they "suggest" we get i5s and 1070Ns so that the heat is managed better.

If Clevo is unable to work out a deal for replacing TIM from Intel then the chips should at least be able to not overheat out of the box with their stock cooling design.

As for that power limit? Just tack on another 100W and it'd be fine for 99/100 users, really. The last 1/100 users? There is Prema.

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

Edit: Lemme add one last thing. I have never actually asked that a machine handle any level of overclocking. I will recommend that it exists to users who have machines that can handle them, but realistically it's not a selling point except for the 7820HK chips. All I want is that these machines take stock with a little bit of overhead to account for atmospheric conditions. If someone wants a machine for overclocking *THEN* they can start hunting for the shops that offer what they want or be prepared to do their own modding.

 

The amount of time and work you need to make some systems have good temperatures is insane.

A monster with 7700K and GTX 1080 with proper work - Delid, Repaste, Cooler fitment test, cooler mod if needed, all temperature testing, doing a profile with UV/OC, will take a full day from a staff member, even if he can work 4-5 units at the same time, we are talking 4-5 units a day from a staff member.
It will probably greatly increase the laptop price and you will probably have problems keeping competitive prices. If you do not have competitive price you do not sell and you do not grow.
So in the end i think it will be a rare thing for brands to go into that level of work, specially if they are surrounded by other brands selling a lot cheaper.
I would say around 90% of units like P775 and P870 and P751 even new P6HP6 and P6HS in the market are throttling and clients do not even notice or do not care.
I will keep saying this, if everyone keeps calling the units "CLEVO" and putting them all on the same bag, then we have a problem.

If people keep complaining in the same way then the problem wont go away, people complain about CLEVO not about the brand where they bought. Complaining about the manufacturer damages all of us, complaining about the brand you chose will make the brand aware that they need to step up, even if by "stepping up" they have to demand better build parts from CLEVO.

If you demand FROM YOUR BRAND better support, drivers, bios, cooling solutions, they will have to step up, if you demand only from CLEVO then the brands get away with it, it´s not "their fault". There are already brands with amazing support, drivers, bios, and amazing temperatures, so starting calling things by the name instead of naming CLEVO.

I made a similar post like this one a while back.

 

I dont know where to put this, but I thought on the Clevo overclocking forum would be the best place to put it as it involves heat conductivty...

Has anyone payed Bits power.com.tw by credit card. My PayPal verification is taking the micky!! An error message keeps coming up.

They sent me this link via email after when i questioned them about an alternative payment method:
http:// www.bitspower.com.tw/creditcard_other_form.php

 

No I used PayPal

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

Thank you for your insight. I need to know if it's safe to pay by card. Is this a reputable company anyone know?

 

I had no issues paying with PayPal, got the product quick and it was quality as far as I could tell

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

The way things are right now this is very true and thank you for pointing it out (again).
There are resellers/brands out there that are actively finding appropriate solutions. Yourself and HIDevolution seem to be leading the charge with that (forgive me if I've missed anyone). I think Prema's BIOS has also gone along way in highlighting that there are unique offerings to be had. The brands aren't all the same.

Going forward though, I'm not sure I can fully agree that Clevo need not 'step up'.
Whilst I totally understand the better resellers that take pride in what they dispatch don't want to be grouped in with the slap-dash resellers that basically forward the machines onto the customers, I believe the criticism about stock Clevo's from the factory is fair and entirely constructive. If just not a good practice. A rising tide lifts all ships, and the good resellers can still take lead and pioneer, just on other areas.

 

But it's not regular online complains that will change things.
Complaints need to go to the brands and then brands need to relay to CLEVO.
Otherwise we are not going anywhere with this.

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

 

Some resellers don't understand that at all.

 

Hi guys, sorry to interrupt your serious discussions here

I have P870KM1-G with 7700k delidded and a single 1080 gtx. I've been pondering one thing for a while.

How does your gpu fan act when reaching high temperatures like 80 C on P870KM1-G ? For me once the temperature gets to 80 C it goes to full speed (still not fn + 1 full speed) . I'm fine with that, however when the temperatures get lower again the fan still remains there at full speed even if I close the game and such. It will stay there about a minute and then start going down when the GPU temps decreases to 50 C or below but I think it's more of a timed thing in the system.

My question is, is this normal behavior of the fans? It seems kinda strange it doesn't lower the fan speed when the temperatures get lower like it does before reaching that 80 C and "full" speed. It's a bit annoying since I can see the temperatures on my other screen and I know the fans could be blowing a little more quiet when goes back to 75 C for example.

I would like to know your experiences.

Sidenote: It does this with locked core Mhz and with the stock settings.

Otherwise the machine is a beast from Obsidian-PC , CPU temps stay low and nice

 

The EC Firmware is the one who controls that, we are actually testing new BIOS/EC and trying to implement our own specified EC curves in all next BIOS updates. So please wait for the next BIOS update and then let me know if you like it better.

 

So it is normal behavior? Sounds great John any ETA on that bios with the EC curves?

 

It takes some time to spin down yes. I think it´s doing Thermal regeneration of the particulate filter...
( ps. it´s a car joke )

 

It's a maximum performance fan curve when it does that effectively. By being aggressive you keep the clocks as high as possible.

 

I see. Thank you for your input. I guess I need to live with that fact then for a while.

 

If the fans were to spin down too quickly as temperatures dropped it would not be as effective at expelling the remainder of the heat stored in the heat sinks. People would also be more likely to complain of spastic fan behavior. The fans would be erratically ramping up and slowing down on a frequent basis and that would be viewed as fairly obnoxious to most people.

 

I can see that would be an issue as well. Thanks for the input.

 

Does quality of thermal pad matters? i'm choosing between https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MQ6D97M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_19?smid=A15YNZR7YB053N&psc=1 and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A91FCLQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ABYQ6TEUUVPZH&psc=1

Go with the expensive one or the cheap one?

 

get Arctic ones, they are a good VFM.

 

Hey guys, I was having a weird issue with my secondary GPU turning the laptop off at around 70C so I took my GPUs out and replaced the 0.5mm pads that weren't touching with 1mm arctic pads then put them back in. Now my laptop is making it into Windows fine but there is no display at all, other than the backlight going on when I can tell the login screen is showing. The GPUs have power, because they are heating up eventually and fans starting but nothing is reaching the LCD. I tried DP and HDMI and neither are receiving any video either.
So I swapped them. Exact same results. Tried each of them by themselves in primary slot, same results. Called HIDEvolution and they told me to try an EC reset, RAM swap, etc. no results.
Hoping one of you guys might have an idea of what went wrong before I go spending $200 to ship it for repair.
I used conductonaut for my delid and cpu heatsink since it has a perfect surface match, and kryonaut on my gpus (gpu surrounded by scotch 33 to prevent leaking paste), AFAIK it's non-conductive and I have no loose screws...maybe some shreds of screw/black paint from taking heatsink screws out a few times? I dunno, I blew dryed air at them, used a 99% isopropyl alcohol on a qtip to remove anything that could possibly be any kind of debris...out of ideas.

 

Are you getting no picture even during POST and nothing visible in the BIOS as well, or only after Windows loads? If only after Windows is loading, does the LCD function and display properly up if you boot into Safe Mode? If so, DDU the drivers in Safe Mode and reinstalled them after rebooting into Windows normally.

If not the above, it is possible the EDID is corrupted or the LCD panel is bad. You're going to need access to parts to do some trial and error diagnostics.

I do not suspect the GPUs are the issue here. They were working before and it is extremely unlikely that both went bad at the same time. That's why I think it is likely a driver issue or a problem with the LCD panel.

 

No visible POST, only the backlight goes on and only when it reaches windows, but no pixels are turned on, it's just a black backlight. Pretty sure I can get into the BIOS just can't see what I'm doing. I know for sure the LCD is fine, I have 2 and they are doing the same thing, also DP and HDMI are not working either. It must be some kind of display circuitry between video card and LCD/hdmi/dp ports possibly on the motherboard? :S

BTW my GPU are not touching my heatsink so I have a very thick layer of thermal paste on it until I can come across some copper shims... hasn't leaked past the scotch 33 though. (also shipped stock with very thick thermal paste lol so they must have noticed)
also what in the world is up with the GPU heatsink tops on an angle with that massive gap into the fan, why didn't they make them straight and match up! like 40% of the airflow is going out that gap :|

 

If it is still under warranty, ship it back and let them fix it for you. That all sounds really goofy.

Go into the BIOS and see if you shine a flashlight at an angle, can you see anything on the screen? You may not be able to read everything, but what you would be looking for is a picture with no backlight to illuminate the image.

What model? DM-G with 980M SLI or DM3 with 1080 SLI?

Stock BIOS or Prema BIOS? Is the vBIOS on both GPUs the stock vBIOS?

 

KM1-G 1080 SLI completely stock BIOS/vBIOS (haven't seen anything available yet)
Absolutely nothing on the screen. I think I have to pay $100 there $100 back shipping as I only have 1yr US warranty but in Canada. (11 lbs UPS Ground International?) Not too excited to do that, but no good local repair shops so maybe no choice.

Update: If I remove the battery from the laptop w/ no accessories then ship only that with secureship.ca it looks like I can get away with $34 there and $48 back through UPS Ground! ($0 declared, pretty risky)

 

I would bite the bullet and send it back. The GPU die not making contact with the vapor chamber at all may have ruined something. Glad it is still under warranty. Whether it needs GPUs or motherboard, it's not going to be cheap to fix it. Think of the $200 as a deductible on your insurance policy. It will cost a lot more than the deductible to fix whatever is wrong from the way you describe the problem. Just one 1080 is ludicrous-crazy-retarded beyond reason or comprehension sinfully expensive. If it needs a vapor chamber, motherboard and one 1080, imagine how devastating that would be if the warranty were expired. You'd be better off parting it out or throwing it in the trash and buying another machine. $200 doesn't seem like much when you consider the possibilities.

 

These fans likely uses PID control and would ramp up/down based on the change of temperature.

 

I think my old Asus G751 did just that. Sped up after gpu hitting 75 got lower again when hitting under 71 . That was a 980M though.