*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

With a quad boot (not counting the Linux installation) system, it's fairly easy for me to answer factually and pragmatically which version of Windows performs best.
Test, reboot, test, reboot, test... numbers don't lie. But, fanboys do.

When I am chasing numbers, I use the one that produces the best numbers. It's basically never the latest and not-so-greatest. Each version release of Windows is worse than the one it replaces. When you are comparing scores with the people beating you on 3DMark benchmarks, always remember to check the version of Windows and the GeFarts driver they are using. Both of those things can have a dramatic impact on performance.

 

Or just as simple as “the lack of knowledge”. Blinded by “new has to perform better” can also be added in. Several ways to see it.

 

Right. Newer is seldom better. Almost never. Smart people realize that. Sheeple always assume the opposite. This applies to OS, drivers, and firmware. Sometimes hardware, too.

To add to this... so can the version of 3DMark. So check that as well when you are comparing against those that are beating you.

It is always amusing when benchmark scores magically go down for almost new EOL hardware when the only thing that has changed is new hardware has surfaced that needs to distinguish itself from yesterday's best to make people feel compelled to buy it. It's amazing what software and driver developers can do to "tweak" results when they are paid to create an image that benefits a partner in crime.

 

when installing new drivers, can they be installed over the old drivers? Or should old drivers be removed first?

 

Hi, I ordered one of these laptops from Eurocom with the 780w power adapter, the 10900K, RTX2070 and have been watching the videos about thermals and optimizing it and don't know where to begin.

Primary functions will be Capture One, 3D Studio, Divinci Resolve, CS6, some gaming here and there, and of course checking email and web surfing.... lol

 

It's better to install drivers cleanly, not over existing drivers. Sometimes files can be locked/in-use and not updated properly. But, the bigger question is why? This is not something you should just do because you can. In fact, that is a really bad plan. Other than fixing a problem (if there is one) or enhancing performance (which is extremely unlikely) there is no reason to update drivers or firmware simply because there is a newer option. Newer options are often inferior, reduce performance, or induce problems where none existed before. The only drivers that an update will typically provide a benefit is GPU, and then only if needed for a specific game title that requires optimization or instability fixes. Older video drivers also quite often perform better than newer ones.

 

Can add in this. Install many new drivers at once will make it more difficult to pinpoint what driver that add in problems/bugs to your system. Nothing new, that new drivers can screw up your system.

How to hide unwanted driver updates in Windows 10 bleepingcomputers.com | December 5, 2020

Almost every month, the Windows Update catalogue is updated with new drivers prepared by OEMs and driver vendors.

These drivers are designed to fix bugs and performance issues, and add new features. Microsoft also uses Windows Update to deliver drivers for Intel, Nvidia, AMD, ASUS, Lenovo, Dell, HP, and other products.

Unfortunately, bugs may be encountered after new driver updates are released. Some of these driver updates could break features, reduce performance, or result in infinite update installation loop.

 

Installing drivers on top of older drivers in an operating system that has messed up file permissions due to the inherent flaws in NTFS file system is a recipe for disaster.

 

Indeed, besides, there are some good scripts to delete old and unused drivers, like I mentioned, the good Autorun64. I installed these drivers and doing a wipe because of a lack in perf. and problems with audio drivers causing a crash in windows something graph isolation, I think it may have been sound blaster atlas. Anyway after this "driver cleanup" cinebench r20 went up 100 points and battery duration went on from barely 3 hours to almost 5, so I am not complaining.

 

Good one, I indeed used the tool MS promptly removed from the windows update setup to hide unwanted optional driver updates like they trying to shove a 2017 XTU driver down my throat.

this one should help

 

So I'm trying to install the Obsidian PC Clevo Lighting software so I don't have the static blue light as my keyboard color and I keep getting a VCRUNTIME140_1.dll error when I try to open the software after downloading it. I tried this for the control station software as well assuming maybe it was needed to use the keyboard lighting software? Same issue. Kinda bizarre and wasn't sure what else to try other than redownloading. Which did not work.

 

Take my advice and follow part 1 of my guide here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-cpu-oc-component-completely-x170sm-g.834715/
It'll save you a LOT of headache and nuisance. Obsidian softwares are a bit glitchy imo and probably not fully compatible with this model either (yet).

 

You'll be encountering issues with other software at some point. This should fix that. Run this as admin.

Visual C++ Redistributable Runtimes All-in-One Aug 2020

 

That did the trick. You'd think in this day and age we'd get "You're missing this please install it."

 

Error messages are getting worse if anything because the range of potential errors just gets bigger.

 

Yes, unfortunately that is true. Most people will not see an issue with this unless they do a clean OS install and haven't installed all of the versions of VC++ that are being used. Most games and many other software packages bundle dependencies like Java, DirectX, and VC++ runtimes and install them silently, so people that have already downloaded and installed a lot of crap (especially games) won't encounter the issue that you did.

Indeed! File permissions got a lot more messed up with Windoze 8.X, and then often messed up progressively worse with each update to Windoze OS X. The Redmond Reprobates keep us safe by screwing things up for us. Personally, I will take a less secure--even insecure--OS that functions correctly over a secure OS that malfunctions.

I take ownership of all files and folders in the root directory of each volume and use NSudo with all privileges as "Trusted Installer" whenever permissions are an impediment. I almost never had a need for that sledgehammer approach with Windows 7. The M$ UWP app trash doesn't like that, but I don't use that rubbish much anyhow. Mrs. Fox says that I am possessed by the "spirit of Bubba" but I just call it opening a can of whoop-ass on Windoze OS X.

 

That happens to be the C++ redist I use. I am a systems integrator in the Army (until I am retired in about 6 months...) so I have a "Programs to install" on any new system I create, including that, Java, and many others. TeraCopy is a definite for file transfers, among others.

 

Yeah.

New big update of Futuremark 3dmark scoring lower and crashing constantly on stable clocks that i used before in older 3dmark suite
https://community.hwbot.org/topic/2...cks-that-i-used-before-in-older-3dmark-suite/

Seems Futuremark UL follow in Microsoft's foot steps making their products worse.

More bloat beats reliability.

 

When OS makers start thinking of their customers as their own private property, start running third party researches and surveys using their machines without their consent, shove BioEnrollment and other crap down their throats without even notifying them, embed spywares and even legit trojans and webshells in the service handler code itself then they do deserve a drum (not a can) of whoop-ass. I did something similar yesterday. Finally got my hands on a 2019 copy of Win10 Enterprise LTSC and bought a cheap oem key for a few bucks. Most of the crapware was already gone by default. I still managed to find a lot of crapware hidden in it such as MAPS, BioEnrollment service, XBox garbage and lots of other junk which I got rid of fast (I restore backups within minutes so playing around like this gets easier). Also got rid of delivery optimization backdoor (dosvc, domgmt), the Windows Update Medic Service, telemetry services, Killer and Intel crap (that windows update pulled despite me banning driver updates both from GPEDIT as well as system properties) and IE. It's pretty much a barebone Windows kernel now with just search, file explorer and basic system utilities. I left it stress testing throughout yesterday night and after 15 hours it is still running without a hiccup and here I am messaging using the same machine while it is running a stress test in the background. My bench figures have also gone up due to all that garbage gone. Inching closer to the threadripper now (stock clocks)!

 

Very nice! Great job on the CPU tuning and the OS tuning.

Yes sir. TeraCopy is awesome. Very useful tool. I have a lifetime license for it purchased a very long time ago.

And, thank you for your service!

 

Here is the very simple open bench I am using to bin CPUs. My original plan was to do it on air using a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO that I had in my stash of junk just as an emergency CPU cooler. That didn't work out, so I ended up grabbing a Corsair H100i GTX AIO on eBay for $65. What was good about that was the experience and realization that the CPU cooling on the X170, (with my thermal mods inflicted on it,) was actually just as good, maybe even slightly better, than that renowned and popular desktop air cooler. I had to move to the 240mm AIO to experience better temps than the X170 so I could identify the 5.1GHz chips without thermal throttling on the air cooler. That was a real eye-opener and speaks volumes about the X170's potential with some TLC.

https://hwbot.org/submission/4623342_mr._fox_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_780_ti_13185_marks


This freshly-binned batch of cherry-picked 10900K procs uses less voltage than what is on offer from Silicon Lottery (same as the last batch did, but even better samples this time).

 

That vapor chamber really does work well, no doubt about it! I bin my own chips and so far have been lucky enough to find great chips out of a bulk buy of 4-5 of them (I keep the best one and sell off the rest). So far I have noticed that this is a cheaper way than buying a binned chip as the minimal loss in selling off other CPUs adds up to be significantly less overall. I use my handy dandy Noctua NH-U12S.

 

The way I bin them it was just too much for the Hyper 212 EVO to handle, even with push-pull fans. Each one has to pass about 60 minutes of Cinebench R23 and AIDA64 stress test with FPU enabled (50/50) before it gets the stamp of approval with less voltage than the same clock speed bins from Silicon Lottery. Those that don't cut it have to find a new home. Those that make the cut are worthy of finding a home in the X170. The motherboard is a fairly weak one by desktop enthusiast standards, with not many power phases (the least expensive Z490 mATX mobo available) to more closely resemble the X170 motherboard.

Here's a nice video that Brother @B0B released today.

 

I found the culprit for my audio graph isolation crashes, it's Sound blaster atlas and relative components that apparently cause them, not the realtek audio drivers.

Also latest windows update forces install edge with prompts to use it, so much for "security updates for edge and other components".

Wish they'd hurry up with a more usable linux distro, sick and tired of this windows ****.

 

As much as I love Linux, I do not see it as having the ability to replace Windows completely for me. It cannot run all of the software I want to run and it would be too limiting. It is a better product otherwise. Plus, installing Linux on a system that doesn't have working CSM Support means further limitations. You cannot use Grub and cannot install Windows 7. I have spent hours trying on the X170 and none of the Windows 7 UEFI mods work and neither does using a fully working UEFI-enabled Windows 7 image installed on a system that does. So, thanks to the morons at Insyde. I was able to install POP!_OS because it does not use Grub for a bootloader. Linux distros that use Grub/Grub 2 will not work... same problem as Windows 7.

But, there is no reason to put up with Micro$lop's latest cancer OS crap. You don't have to and shouldn't. Relying on rubbish from Windows Store is ludicrous. You're better off keeping that feces out of your life.

https://www.cdkeysales.com/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019-cd-key-global.html

Download ISO

 

Considering how cool this thing stays in games while overclocked I don't think we could ask for anything more. Considering out of box without it would just have it throttle at stock speeds. I'm gonna preload cyber punk for it's grand release and see how this machine holds up to the latest game from the company that always seems to destroy current gen hardware. Let alone last gen.

If that had been the 17" model I may have been a bit sad, as I actually really like the Omen 17. If things don't go as planned and the MXM 3080- 3070 never becomes a thing I'll be watching for you to be modding an OMEN 17 with great interest. Though that won't be until like. . .2022 atleast.

BTW has anyone noticed they can't charge their laptop with one charger? I was just trying it to see how slow it would charge the machine on one brick doing casual desktop work and was surprised it didn't work. Even though it worked in Bob's model?

 

I didn't notice a drain with one PSU for just tooling around the internet. Then again, using this like a laptop the way I use a laptop was an experience I prefer to not embrace lol

 

I’ll have to give that a try later. I left it plugged in over night on one brick and it did not charge at all. Not that this is really an issue for me. I don’t see myself using it in any other way besides at a desk and always plugged in.

 

Got back my X170SM-G from RMA. Literrally every major component was replaced (motherboard, vga, cpu) and even the screen got upgraded to 300 Hz panel.

Unfortunately I can confirm that neither of these solved the inverse ghosting issue and the same minor ghosting seen on the 240 Hz panel is visible with the 300 Hz panel.

However I also can confirm that it is definitely a software issue and there is something wrong with the panel settings/G-Sync timings.

I have made a custom resolution and reduced the refresh rate from 300 Hz to 299 Hz. This has solved the ghosting issue and the inverse ghosting was gone, even G-Sync felt much more smoother than with the default 300 Hz. Only problem is that because of this the VRR window gets messed up and when the FPS is too low and G-Sync reaches the lowest value (50Hz/50FPS) instead of turning off, the screen starts to flash.
So reducing refresh rate by 1 Hz made G-Sync smoother and fixed the inverse ghosting, however cut scenes are flashing because G-Sync gets confused and forgets how to turn off.

I wish @j95 was still with us, he was able to fine tune G-Sync timings in his modded driver and this issue would have been long fixed with one of his special modded drivers.

 

I ordered my X170SM-G from zTecpc today. It should be here soon, maybe next week. Thanks for all the help and advice, Donald.

 

My pleasure, Sir!

ENJOY!!

 

Funny since I was having the reverse issue today. I was messing around in The Witcher 3 finally giving this thing a good gaming test to see how thermals were. I had RDR2 downloading in the background because I was trying to overload the CPU and see how hot it would get it spiked to 90 a couple of times, but stayed in the 80's most of the time. Once the download was over it went back down to the 70's. I was floored by that. That's nuts it can run at those temps while playing a game and downloading another in the background. Well I thought that was why my game was being jittery. But turns out I forgot to turn G-Sync back on and that made everything smooth again for me.

Maybe if I have to send this bad boy in for repairs one day I'll get a screen upgrade too. But, it's fine for me for now. I've been using DSR to play at 2560x1440 in games and it's pretty darn crisp to my eyes.

Noice. Donald will take care of ya. You know we want to know what specs you got?

 

And now happily writing to you from a far more cleaner win 10 ltsc. I was able to run the cleansing scripts and tool a couple of tips from the useful guide @S.K wrote. Thanks very much!

just missing these 3, the other 2 are acpi drivers.

On a much more positive note, LEDs are off by themselves , such a bliss.

 

LCD Panel 17.3" 16:9 1920x1080 Matte Flat
Display Warranty 30 Days Zero Defective Pixel Warranty (perfect panel guarantee)
Display Calibration None
Custom Prema BIOS For ZTecpc Custom Prema BIOS For zTecpc
Thermal Design By Mr. Fox THERMAL DESIGN BY MR. FOX
Thermal Solutions Coollaboratory Liquid Pro on CPU + Phobya NanoGrease Extreme on GPU and Premium Thermal Materials on all heat sensitive areas
Wireless Cards Wi-Fi 6 AX201
Operating System Clean Install Clean Install of Windows 10 including 32GB Clean Install Flash Drive.
Recovery Media None
Office Software None
Branding No-brand
Extended Warranties 1-Year Warranty
CPU Delidded Intel 10th Generation Comet Lake Core i7-10700K
RAM 8GB (2x 4GB DDR4)
GPU NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2060 192-Bit w/ 6GB GDDR6
OS Windows 10 Home OEM
Display 17.3"
M.2 Slot 1 Global Brand 256 GB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe SSD

 

I am surprised that Grub doesn't work on the X170. It is odd because it worked fine with the NH58AF1 which is also running Insyde.

Do you think the project manager for Windows 10 has the guts to respond like this to poor programing?

 

Guys, have any of the partners started prema bios distribution as paid service?

I have a friend's x170 from Obsidian, but it's stock glitchy bios..

 

YES!! Cracked the top 50!! It isn't showing on the site yet, though...
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/24291160

 

I am using a fully updated Linux Mint Cinnamon in a dual boot mode with Windows 10 on my X170 with GRUB as main bootloader. I wonder why it didn't work for you as it was quite flawless in my case; granted for the first boot I had to add nomodeset keyword to the linux bootloader directive in order to boot in fallback display mode since the default display driver craps out during startup. Once inside though, I installed latest nVidia drivers and even the LAN driver so now it works without any additional arguments at boot. Could you share your grub config files (in case you took the headache to back them up somewhere)?

 

I am not sure. And, I cannot do any further testing at this point because I no longer have the developer unit. It is possible there was user error, but what was happening was at the end of the Linux installation I kept getting an error message that the volume was not bootable and it was not. I tried like three times and it always ended the same. i also tried a different M.2 drive in case that was causing it and the result was the same. POP!_OS does not use Grub and it installed without a hitch. And, everything worked flawlessly. I simply had to install Cinnamon Desktop because I can't stand Unity or the hideously ugly default theme.

Seems like he was talking about Windows 10, LOL. Some of the colorful language is equally applicable. But, no... Micro$lop leadership is feckless and lacks the ability to identify the magnitude of the trash they produce.

 

Was that error on one of Prema moded machines? If yes then it could be a firmware glitch too, not sure though as I am not using a Prema modded firmware (yet).

They are focusing on pushing out public spyware these days. Not much focus or build effort goes into the actual OS itself. I have heard from people inside that there are a handful of codeheads keeping the core of the project alive and maintained while the entire remaining army of "developers" are just building spyware and hack tools.

 

Well seems I spoke too soon.
Seems the 300 hz panel is also suffering from the overdrive being enabled in the bios.
Some games are good and the inverse ghosting is barely visible however in some games it is really noticable.

It is really noticable in metro last light for example. In the first room where we first fight enemies the windows are sealed with wire fences (at ast I think it is). On p775tm1-g with 144 hz gsync panel it looked fine when moving in front of it however the x170 with 240 and 300 hz gsync panel can not display it correctly and when moving around there is a white ghostly outline coming from the edges of the textures.

I believe this could be resolved if Clevo would finally get their act together and add an option in CCC to disable panel overdrive.

I tested the panel with ufotest and it is giving closely the same results as my 1 ms TN monitor regarding ghosting.

This means that the inverse ghosting when using Gsync is definitely not a hardvare issue or because the panel is too slow.

A bit disappointing that Acer, Asus and MSI allows users to disable panel overdrive but Clevo does not.

The only panel I did not try is the 144 hz panel however I would guess Clevo forces overdrive there too.
The only question is that regarding the characteristics of the panel is it as visible as with the 240 and 300 ones or not ?

It seems to me that overdrive kicks in above 60 fps/60 hz. Gears of War Ultimate edition is really buggy regarding vsync and frame lock, however when I enabled 60 fps lock the game got locked at 75 fps and the inverse ghosting visibly became less noticable. This did not fix the problem but made the game more playable, however if the only way to make it go away is to lock the game near 60 fps, what is the point in paying for a 240 or 300 hz panel ?!

Clevo has direct access via their software to the bios, with just a few days of development they could add that extra button like MSI, Acer and Asus did with their own software, but no, Clevo just doesn't care ... Perfect example is their bios. If they cared about the software issues Prema would not have to work his @ss off making a new bios almost from scratch.

I am not saying that the laptop is not usable because it is and most games play fine where inverse ghosting is minimally visible. Most people who are not so into stuff like this might even consider it normal.

The true reason why I am ranting is because I am angry that Clevo does not follow other manufacturers to fix this basic problem with a simple software update.

 

I will test this. I have an Eluktronics x170 with the 240hz monitor. I will see if I have ghosting.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

 

Load up Metro Last Light with Gsync enabled . After killing the first wave of enemies move left-right in front of the window and check if the black wire fence has white trail or not.



It should look like this even during movement however when I move I get white trail on the edges due to overdrive+Gsync.

 

@Prema has not released a paid service for his Custom Prema BIOS at this time. Should he do so at some time in the future, he will most likely announce it on Notebookreview.

 

I sure hope he does since Eluktronics isn't a Prema partner right now.

Sent from my OnePlus 7 Pro using Tapatalk

 

I think that is the part you are missing. It's not a "simple software update" to correct this. Below is what was previously posted. It would be complex and carry many caveats.

 

Yes, it is the PremaMod, but the mod is based on a newer codebase. It may be different on the original X170 BIOS if that is what you have and it works for you. The glitch (i.e. defect) is the Insyde BIOS, (at least the "latest and greatest" version,) has no code that supports CSM. You can maybe unlock a menu showing the option, but it's not connected to anything that actually allows CSM to work.

 

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, that complicated things. Not impossible to do but I doubt Clevo would take the chance and apply this to the CCC . They don't even have to since more people just believe this is normal or just use it like this than the number of people who would like to get it fixed.

Wish I had someone near me who has an x170 with 144 hz panel to check if this overdrive problem affects that the same as it does the 240 and 300 hz panels.
If I knew for sure that the 144 hz panel does not have inverse ghosting / overshoot I would immediately downgrade. I am not playing esports anyway, ray tracing games won't even reach 144 hz let alone 240 or 300.

 

I think white listing is always such a bad idea.

 

Well I found what those 2 damn acpi drivers were alright, the fantastic LEDs which are now stuck on regardless of me having removed said drivers from the face of the earth