*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

Exactly. Donald and I discussed that at length. It's never wise to over-promise and under-deliver, especially with a demanding niche market that expects to get what they pay for (as they should).

 

BGA and LGA laptops are both costly. At least with the X170, you can make the necessary mods to make it a great laptop. Being confident in making those mods is the challenge. Unless you have done it before (I haven't) or can journeyman with someone experienced (does a Parsons terrier count?), some things are better left alone. That isn't to say I've become ignorant in my old age. Just not as eager to accept the risk of breaking something because I could.

Your poinrt @Mr. Fox is such a critical one. How many other laptop buyers out there are like me who expect an out of box experience without first investing the time and energy? Chock it to a society where enabling has been encouraged.

 

shoe wax use for easy disassemble silicon casket from radiator and socket
it usually use for gun bedding to disassemble epoxi from barrel
for barrier layer i use two-component urethane varnish
shoe wax comprises carnauba wax the melting point is about 90 degrees Celsius, which I fear could be dangerous

 

Very true points. I think almost everything is overpriced now, especially computer stuff. The main selling points of the X170, like most of the big Clevo DTRs that came before it, are its modularity (CPU socket and MXM) and the potential to be transformed into something special. I can't remember the last time I saw a laptop that is excellent as shipped. Most of the BGA turdbooks are very limited potential because there is so little to work with. Never mind the fact that the CPU and GPU are soldered to the mainboard, the parts like fans and heat sinks are so poorly made and undersized that they are borderline mod resistant. There are things you can do to make them better, but the fans and heat sinks don't have the capacity to effectively handle more watts. In most cases they are under-built. With those you can only do so much, but you can often make modest improvements. Sometimes the gains are great, but still not enough to remedy malfunction.

 

The high end is certainly more expensive, you can put together a very decent rig though if you spec it right.

 

I told @Donald@zTecpc in a email and @Mr. Fox in a pm I may have something that may change the x170sm in a very good way but that they will have to wait for me to receive the product and test it. I don't wanna recommend it yet. I'm getting it from my friend over in China early production product not ready for sale yet. It should be in hands to me early feb. Full product should be available early march.

P.S I will not loose lips what it is.

 

Well, naturally laptops have been more expensive because they are "small" and maybe back in 1998 or even 1992 when the first notebooks/laptops were being designed , there was some R & D cost. But in 2020 /2021 we have had laptops for 40 some years. It is not a new concept, so why is cost so much more?

I mean I can buy a "fancy" desktop case for $99, there is no way the case for the X170 costs more than $99 (and that is retail with a profit). Then I know what the desktop CPU's cost either they go in a full tower or laptop case. Ram .... come on.... 64GB for $200-$300, (with a retail profit) but vendors want $900 for the same ram? So in an X170 there is some research in the GPU and CPU heat sink, but come on it is not anymore cost than a fancy one for the tower computer. The laptop motherboard uses a PCB about the same size as an ITX motherboard....... but it is double the cost? The price of windows does not change.... and backlite keyobards are so common and cheap now. Trackpad is very little cost. Ethernet and wifi cards / chips..... also not very expensive. It is not like they are putting $50,000 Focal speakers in the laptop.

 

The prices are high because they (OEM/ODM, not the shop selling it) can get away with it. People are willing to overpay. The shops that sell them do not make huge profits on the machines. It is rather disappointing how little they make on each laptop they sell. So, they sell parts upgrades like drives and RAM for more because they are trying to offset the small profit made on selling the laptop and because they do not get a huge discount on those parts. I can see 20-25%, maybe 30%, markup over cost on parts being reasonable. They would not be able to keep the lights on if they didn't turn a profit. They are in business to make money like everyone else, and they should. We should want them to. They have mouths to feed and bills to pay like the rest of us.

But, charging $900 for RAM that one can buy from Amazon or NewEgg for $300 is dishonest. The only thing I can think of that is worse is a consumer being stupid enough to pay $900 for a RAM kit that sells for $300. That's a crime called extreme stupidity. Unfortunately, it's pretty common and we have them to thank for helping things get ruined for everyone else. The same group of dullards is partly responsible for how crappy laptops have become over the past 5 to 8 years.

I never bought into the idea of an MXM GPU costing more because it is small. That is poppycock. I will never believe an MXM GPU with a smaller PCB, less RAM, no external connections, no heat sink, no fans, no marketing materials, no advertisement cost and no fancy packaging, costs more than a desktop GPU. Baloney. It's because they can get away with it and because they don't mind taking advantage of people that value stuff more than the money they work so hard to earn to buy more stuff.

 

I like the idea of a unified vapor chamber design, as it's the logical evolution for this platform and the mod can be done with low temperature solder. Even advanced HiK plates use low temp solder paste for heat pipes/vapor chambers, and still offer great heat dissipation due to their design. Only downside is that vapor chamber surface can be slightly uneven (contact pressure matters a lot) and unless they are nickel plated will react with LM. (this isn't as big of an issue since you can either bake or apply several coats until the copper is saturated and no longer reacts)

 

A lot less produced MXM cards vs desktop cards due the intro of the dreaded BGA. This can explain some of the higher costs but not at the disgusting level we can see. And proprietary design won''t make it more appealing price vise. The higher price point vs desktop cards is still 50% too high. GREED "works" is todays word...

 

So why are you being dismissive toward experts such as the people at zTecpc, Mr. Fox, et al., when you lack similar qualifications.

It's no secret that Clevo DTRs come in a dire state from the factory wrt thermal management, power/current limit throttling, barebones BIOS options, etc. As the power envelope and thermal density of the components go up, the need for proper QC is greater than ever.

Proper QC such as what zTecpc provides takes a lot of time, effort, and money. I know this firsthand.

The system in my signature, when I bought it, was in a terrible state, especially the GPU. I got it from a reseller who did not do their due diligence on QC aside from repasting with Kryonaut. In full 3D load, the GTX 1080 would hit thermal runaway within minutes, sitting at the 91C throttle limit, as the clocks dropped from 1800MHz to 1700MHz to 1600MHz, and GPU power from 190W to below 150W, with performance dropping lower and lower.



It took me a lot of time, effort, and money to mod my system to get the temperatures under control. Now, it maintains ~2000MHz at 190W when overclocked and stays below 80C, even after a 20-minute Time Spy stress test.



Not everyone has the know-how fix Clevo's broken messes. That's where places like zTecpc come in, as they'll make your system right where Clevo could not, while covering everything they do under warranty.

Fixing broken messes is not free. Period. End of story.

 

To build on this thought, resellers like HidEvolution and Ztecpc will certainly improve upon the product than what they received as barebones from Clevo. Reality as I have learned is that these computers, though much improved over what you could have received otherwise, still need a lot of physical TLC before they become enthusiast-grade. That was a misconception I wrongly held when I made my purchase. I didn't know any better. But, I learned quite a bit from these forums. I can undervolt, overclock, and fine tune any system thrown at me. At some point, I will run into barriers that can only be fixed by mods, My friends in these forums got me hooked on desktop performance. Again, I've pushed my desktop as hard as I could without further mods such as VBIOS flashing or shunt mods. As with the laptop, I have a healthy respect for motherboard components, GPU downclocking due to temperature, memory overclocking.

Last weekend, I broke my first fear barrier when I cleaned the desktop. Bought a dust blower, and cleaned out the fans and radiator. I had to remove my GPU card to blow the dust out of the blower. But, I did so and didn't break anything.

Resellers will get you started. They will make sure there are no component/warranty defects. But, they are not responsible for me knocking Kingpin off the leaderboards with the equipment I purchased. Word to the wise - awesome laptop performance will never come out of the box regardless who you buy it from.

 

I removed numerous posts from a few pages back that were largely back and forth. Some legitimate posts got caught in the crossfire; they didn't make sense on their own so I removed them as well. If anyone wants the contents of their posts back, message me and I'll retrieve it for you.
Charles

 

Can someone who has had access to the prema modification post some screenshots how it looks like now and how stable it is? Thank you!

 

The @Prema BIOS looks exactly the same as the stock BIOS with more menu items. There are no aesthetic changes to the firmware interface. I did not make a video of it as I used to because simply unlocking all of the Insyde H2O BIOS menus only takes a few mouse clicks if you have the software and knowledge needed to do it. However, there are many things on Insyde BIOS menus that do not work, malfunction or even brick the laptop if changes are made out of adventurous ignorance. Simply toggling the menus from hidden to exposed creates a sloppy mess and a dangerous minefield of hazards. It took Prema many weeks of trial and error bricking and unbricking to determine what was safe, what worked and what needed to be hidden to avoid problems. For that reason it was not shared. It would only benefit wannabe copy-cat BIOS modders that don't want to take the time to do a proper BIOS mod.

Not sure what you are asking about stability. Do you mean stability it terms of having menu items that are broken? If so, there are not any. Everything present works. Anything that doesn't work right is hidden. If you mean stability in terms of how a machine runs and functions properly with the PremaMod, the low level thermal throttling crap was eradicated from the BIOS and EC by Prema's hex editing wizardry, which is something merely having an "unlocked" BIOS will not correct.

 

Perfect. All i wanted to know

 

He’s the only salesman I trust. Whether I’m just paranoid or super picky every other sales rep has said something that makes me feel like they’re just pushing a product. He actually seems likes he cares you pick the right machine for you.

Or he’s just that good and has me fooled.

 

You know if I like them then they gotta be good

All bass frequencies all well heard at every volume level set, shows you how well made the foster sub unit is. It’s literally double the size of the subwoofer I’d crown the best (aka MSI GT70 sub)...

I can’t wait to buy another barebones man I miss the sound quality

 

The X170 has the best laptop audio that I have personally experienced. It sounds really good considering how small the speakers are. They are very large by laptop standards, although small by any other standard.

 

It's worth pointing out that advertisement isn't permitted on the forum and this message looks exactly like one. But even this is not the biggest problem. Everything that is presented on these pictures fits a description of standard marketing.

1. There are no numbers, charts or comparison between original and modified systems. No reliable tests or benchmarks. Short test found in the video review isn't enough in this case, it can be faked easily.
2. There are no pictures that would show that there were changes made. In that video cooling is hidden. Some may say that it's a "product" but it's not a reason to hide it. Some customers will definitely share the pictures at some point and everyone will be able do similar changes. This extra secrecy is only creating more reasons to doubt. Manufactures never hide their cooling solutions and they have much more money to lose.
3. Prices are actually SUBSTANTIAL and should be justified too. I'm not going to say how much cheaper TM is on amazon, I realize that I'm also paying for the service here. But most users here are capable of changing TM. I also have concerns that LM can cause some problems after warranty ends. Clarification needed on this too.

Overall there's nothing that would indicate that this addition is worth the money. Since there is a representative on the forum, I'm sure it's pretty easy to get a clarification. Word "SUBSTANTIALLY" should be justified by numbers. Otherwise it's logical to assume that it's simply a way to get more money out of the customer.

I do realize that most trust users with high reputation without doubt and it's their business. I have fair questions that should get fair answers.

If mods are to delete this message like it happened before, contact @ custom90gt first since we have discussed this matter.

 

I was actually shocked at how good the audio was from the built in speakers and sub.... still not at the Focal level but compared to the Best Buy Special laptops for $499 it is 200% better.

 

You and me both lol, I was expecting maybe 50% of what I heard bass wise but frankly I was blown away. It just goes to show enclosure size does matter, not only more watts (which is what the ear bleeding p870tm has)

 

I think we have all gotten the message by now, repeating it ad nauseam does NOT help.

Also you may not grasp the concept of a forum - you are not a paying customer here and nobody owes you anything.

That's it from me and now I would like to know if we can have an ignore list on this forum. I have never needed it but this may change soon...

 

Is it only me or when I try to install creative software ( from drivers download page ) I only get an empty folder and no app? Not to mention I still do not know where to find creative sound blaster atlas app seen as I do not have the microsoft store

 

It is a UWP piece of trash, so it enables it to be metastasized through Windoze $tore. You'll have to go to the $tore to get it or live without it.

I've used it and viewed it as basically a worthless piece of bloatware that added no value.

 

i know, but i run ltsc , and can't find it on the online store from where to get the link package

 

Afaik only windows updates/store updates in win 10 pull those apps

 

You can install Windoze Store on LTSC if you don't mind digital STDs. But, I think you will find it as worthless as I did. I don't use the Creative app on my TongFang turdbook either for the same reason. Only the legacy Realtek control panel is worth a damn. The Creative overlay is trash that merely steals CPU clock cycles and RAM without giving anything useful in return. It looks fancy and the kiddos like that.

I would look on station-drivers.com for a Realtek audio driver package compatible with the hardware ID and use that. It will have the legacy Realtek audio control panel with as many or more useful features as the Creative UWP app.

 

We sure do! Click on the members profile picture and a little window will pop up. Lower right is the ignore button. Simple and works great on obnoxious people.

 

couldn't agree more, however i did use the equalizer and the "booster" or whatever it was, I suppose I could find a counterpart, anyway thanks mate

 

The legacy Realtek control panel has that.

https://www.station-drivers.com/ind...tory&Itemid=352&func=fileinfo&id=4370&lang=en

 

Before starting the transition, use DDU to remove the current DCH/UWP or native Windows audio driver and have DDU tell Windows to not automatically install drivers. Also, disconnect from the internet. Might be overkill, but that is my M.O. on most things. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure when it comes to Micro$lop's Windows 10 digital feces.

 

I already run realtek drivers but yes I do also have driver store explorer to remove drivers if needed, I will see whether it is worth it at this point or simply get the store back, temporarily

 

Not sure how accurate the render on this page is, but the 3080M card shown is identical to the Clevo 150W 2080 and 200W 2080S.

https://www.clevo.com.tw/ces_2021/X170KM-G.html

3080M:


200W 2080S:


So it should be a drop-in upgrade (with a BIOS update) for current RTX 20 Series models.

PCB shape, core and power connector placement are same as Clevo 190W GTX 1080 as well, just some VRAM/inductors/MOSFETs got moved around, so it should be upgradeable with some minor heatsink modding.

190W GTX 1080:

 

nb body not changed so new mb fit for our laptop
now mb price about 350 eu - i think so will be same price
https://clevo-computer.com/en/spare...ard-edp-w/tpm-usb-board-clevo-x170sm-g?c=2484

 

I no longer use any sound control panel supplied by drivers. Instead, I use Equalizer APO: https://equalizerapo.com/

This application is extremely light on resource usage, and I find it provides better tuning capabilities than the equalizers packaged into the sound control panels installed by audio drivers. Turns out, my Ranger's sound card is quite good. You can really amplify the bass output, and it sounds fantastic.

 

I'm currently using the creative one, but when I finally reinstall windows (which I do once a year), i'll be getting this.

I had this + Peace (really awesome GUI for Equalizer APO) on my wife's old laptop (A very old Clevo with an i7-4710MQ and GTX 765M) and it ran great to boost the sound out of the speakers.

Though lately, i'm just using my ath-ad700x headphones on the laptop and just skipping the speakers.

 

Going from a 200w to a 150w card seems more like a side grade tbh, plus minus better temperature. Eventually they will poop out a 200w sold as super duper variant.

 

Will definitely have to see what performance is like. But, if it’s a modest bump I’ll definitely bring doing that upgrade. Still skeptical with how power hungry the 3080 cards are if they’ll basically be not worth it once they shave down the watts so much compared to the desktop counterparts.

 

It’s yet to be seen what the TDP of the Clevo 3080M will be.

The 3080M is not based on the same GA102 GPU as the desktop 3080. It uses GA104, similar to the desktop 3070 (220W) and 3060 Ti (200W).

 

Eeeew. So we’re officially back to the days where the step down top end card is being called something it’s not in laptops? Eeeeh. They better work some magic to make it worth over a 3070 then.

 

Yup, back to -M days for mobile GPUs. And the preliminary performance isn’t looking so hot either, between desktop 2080S and 3070, closer to the former than the latter.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/First...mpere-desktop-class-performance.514698.0.html

 

Well that is good news for the thin and light crowd. Seems like our best bet is the 4000 series will be more energy efficient and give us worth while upgrades. Oh well. Besides cyber punk there isn’t much a 2080S can’t handle at High detail.

 

Its officially stated that 150w is max tdp.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-3080-Mobile-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.497450.0.html

 

I'm expecting some 200W variants, same as before. Nvidia lists 150W+.

 

But but, I think the gap between mobile and desktop cards will continue as with 30xx series cards. 40xx series Mobile cards won’t change on this. Be happy we still have more varieties in design than the 80W 3080 Max-Q cards

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...scale-on-laptops.834039/page-36#post-11070515

 

For now XMG/Schenker RTX3080 will top out at 135w, 150w is with nVidia dynamicboost: https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/kvwj4k/launch_rtx_3000_series_in_xmg_gaming_laptops/

However, the table (scroll down further in the thread) does not include the X170SM

 

Man it’s gonna be sad if people with their Max-q 3080 laptops have there souls crushed when my 2080S is better.

 

wait for next gen 30xx ti mobile
china insiders said it will be may-june 2021

 

Thanks, good to know

The 30xx series mobile roll-out is a complete mess so far but I am still hoping that there will be an option to have a 200W RTX 3080 MAX-P.
That should bring us relatively close to 2080 TI performance with a 30+% upgrade even over the 2080 Super mobile. Still crippled compared to the desktop cards but at least a worthwhile upgrade.