**Official Sager NP9270 / Clevo P270WM Owners Lounge**

anyway, i would love to see some extreme redesign and hopefully a few others like yourself and MR2 would buy this laptop and test it out before me, then i can make my choice when comparing a *stable* 9270 vs m18xr2.

 

The 8 min. I mentioned was a guess about what I'd save in running all the concurrent multiple VMs, compilers, etc. Not scientific by any means, but again, just a hunch based on what other colleagues are seeing in their XPSs. What I really could use is 64GB of RAM.

Anyway, in regards to this particular model, I thought you were going to abandon it unless it came with a new 21" panel.

 

21 inch sounds nice.. ive got a 5 years old HDX 9494 20 inch laptop and that thing is a beast, even now. the thing is heavy as hell though, 16 lbs including adapter and 2nd harddrive.

although i wouldnt mind a 21 inch sager, i would pull the trigger right away for that 21 inch but all the companies which made 20" ones lost money hence they all stopped making them 5-6 years ago. (Acer, sagers, alienware mlx, dell m2010, hdx9000 and maybe 1 or 2 more)

 

I could never do anything larger than what I have..the current one barely fits in my backpack, I'd love a screen that has a thinner bezel (so maybe a 18"?) + all the specs of the best Dell screens (and 3d)

 

well, I gotta say this CPU stuff is rubbish, when is the real 22nm flagship going to come out? the 3970x is not impressive at all nice that they got a 3770k to 7Ghz but that's just the top of the midrange.

Intel Core i7-3970X comes in Q4 2012



where the hell is the 22nm version of this
Intel® Xeon® Processor E5-2687W (20M Cache, 3.10 GHz, 8.00 GT/s Intel® QPI)

that's what this should be running, this is exactly the crap Intel was pulling before AMD smashed them 8 years ago.

 

Does anyone remember what the price of this was with a 3930 and two 675m?

 

I think it was flirting with the $3000 USD range. Don't quote me on that, however.

 

The config I had with powernotebooks was going to cost me around $2500. I only had 1 gpu, though.

 

again, 3770k will not be able to OC to even 4.5 in this notebook. tbh i think the flaw is their design. small air vent, small case. if they going to fit 4 fans inside this lappy why not just make it 18.4 inch, just can't seem to understand sagers/clevo.

with 18.4, 4 fans and more properly designed cool vents, its going to get a lot better. its not like they are afraid of losing money, just look at how well m18x are being sold. aluminum chassis, bigger screen, more fans than alienware, better CPU, possibly better cooling after redesign, supports as many harddrives or possibly more than m18x, then im handsdown for this laptop.

and yes you're exactly right about intel. but i think what they are trying to do right now is getting ready for haswell. At least i hope haswell is somewhat compatible with ivy/sandy even though i already know it wont be compatible. 3970x is definitely a joke, will just a clock bump that is simply retarded. just wish intel would release a 8/16 core/thread processor for consumer already for sandy, instead of waiting till mid 2013 for ivy E.

 

^ Don't forget the awesome unlocked BIOS where we can adjust our fan tables on all the models without the need for Prema to mod them. /s

 

LOL

 

heres a post i made in another thread, watch out those getting IVY E or newer released sandy E, or perhaps even haswell CPU..


"edit: looks like i most likely wont be getting R2 this year at least not 3920xm or 3940xm =/. quote from tom's hardware "Intel counters the smaller die by dropping Ivy Bridge's thermal ceiling. Overclocked, Ivy Bridge must dissipate close to the same heat as a Sandy Bridge-based CPU, but across less surface area. It is pretty clear that Intel's decision to use thermal paste instead of thermally-conductive solder puts a vice on the frequencies this CPU can stably achieve. The end result is a more pronounced and rapid thermal ramp-up that can only be effectively addressed using more aggressive cooling solutions. In a nutshell, for an average system builder, there are clear limits to overclocking Ivy Bridge. We will have to wait and see if future products from Intel employ better material between the processor die and heat spreader." so there, intel decided to use thermal paste that might run out after 3 years or perhaps just 2 years after strong OCing to 4.5ghz, this most likely apply to all ivy mobile as well as ivy mobile extreme.

unless some proof or some source stated clearly ivy mobile extreme processor do not use these cheap thermals, i wont be getting a 3940xm or R2 this year. if i do end up going for R2, it'll just be base R2 with graphics upgrade, then purchase 2960xm myself. good bye alienware year 2012 :'( "

 

First of all, 18 inches of laptop isn't going to happen, it's called the P5 70WM, after all.
Secondly, why is everyone so darn insistent on having an 18 inch laptop?, I fail to see how adding less than an inch to the laptop is going to make it more appealing. Oh well, I guess so people are just never satisfied >.>

I would like to note that only desktop Ivy Bridge processors have the issue with dissipating their heat effectively, because if I'm correct, the thermal paste that is the source of their heat problems is just below the IHS (Internal heat spreader, aka the metal plate on top) which is only present on desktop processors, where-as mobile processors have no IHS, their heat is taken away directly from the CPU.

TL : DR - The mobile Ivy bridge chips don't have heat issues unlike their desktop counterparts, and should IN THEORY run cooler then Sandy Bridge

Proof to back this up:

Code:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/proof_%E2%80%93_switch_fluxless_solder_thermal_paste_cause_poor_ivy_bridge_overclocking_temperatures

 

Yes, and with the P570WM that would be a major, major concern as it will use those same desktop processors.

 

I only brought it up because he seemed to be trying to make a point that mobile ivy bridge CPU's would run hot.

As for Ivy Bridge-E, well, I give Intel the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they will use solder this time instead of thermal paste.

 

Ah, I see. Yes, you are correct. I didn't see his last sentence about the Mobile chips running hotter.

I had already seen this about the desktop CPUs in another article, and have been concerned about what will happen when this lappy is released. I tend to tune out any news regarding mobile CPUs.

 

This is only an issue for someone who is into overclocking. I'm an IT professional, but overclocking was something I just never found the need to learn. The average user (who probably doesn't even know the computer has a BIOS) won't have to worry about this particular problem.

As far as Alienware is concerned, I chose not to buy one of them because of the extreme cost, not because of the hardware they use to build them. No matter how I look at it, I just can't seem to find anything that justifies why Dell charges so much for them. The components inside are not solid gold, so what is the reason for the astronomical pricing?

 

and THANK YOU SIR for proving me wrong. good stuff now i can go ahead and get myself 3940xm =D. really would want to see 3940xm OC compared to 2960xm, probably the same though at the same frequency.

EDIT: wait, i just read that article and says nothing about mobile IVY >.>

 

i get 10% off, free express shipping + a free bag for the alienware m17xr4 i bought. i dont see why i cant do that on my next m18x purchase to save about 400-500 bux again. where as sagers is definitely cheaper, but not as well built and only save $100 and that was final.

 

Allow me to re-clarify/explain

This is a desktop CPU. Note the metal top it has. This is part of the IHS.


This is a mobile CPU. Note that it doesn't have a metal top. The shiny or otherwise black part on top is where most of the CPU's heat is produced, and where is taken away.

Desktop versions of Ivy Bridge "run hot" not because they produce more heat, but because they have issues moving the heat they produce. Why is this? Because unlike Sandy Bridge, which used solder between the CPU and it's IHS, Intel used thermal paste between Ivy Bridge and it's IHS. On mobile Ivy Bridge, this isn't an issue because mobile processors don't have an Internal Heat Spreader (IHS) in the first place, ergo, they will run cooler like they are supposed to.

​

There, I hope I cleared everything up.

 

Desktop processor without the IHS:




Here is some more articles to further explain it:

Ivy Bridge proven to suffer from poor thermal grease by VR-Zone.com

Ivy Bridge Temperatures – It’s Gettin’ Hot in Here | Overclockers

Ivy Bridge heat problem is caused by Intel TIM choice

 

That would be due to the amount of plastic around the outside of the actual LCD, they could reduce this to get another inch of display in there without increasing the size of the Laptop, specifically in my post I'm not suggesting increasing the footprint of this laptop...which is something that I feel needs to be avoided at all costs.

I'm with that other guy....I'm not going to overclock, overclocking just always seems to screw things up, but I AM after the fastest I can get short of actually hauling a desktop around

Edit: I'm also going to go ahead and assume that when Intel do release their hardcore 22nm desktop chips, they will have that issue fixed (Intel are pretty good at eventually getting on top of their stuffups ) maybe that's why Clevo are waiting?

 

sounds like a waste of money to me not OC these CPU when it says based 3.2/3.3ghz can go to 3.7-3.9. why pay for something and not use it to it's potential? and i know exactly where you're coming from cause my thought was exactly the same, couple months back. the ONLY reason you should not OC should be because the cooling capabilities of this laptop, not because CPU would die. sandybridge extreme CPUs are crazy i tell you.

from the 3 desktops and 6 laptops i have owned. i have OC on all of my desktop and two of my laptops. my two laptops are still from this year and last year so they still work just fine. as for my desktop they were quite old and died but not because of CPU but because of outdated support hardware, motherboard/GPUs. OC CPU with proper cooling will NOT die, you will NOT be risky anything.

 

I'm no expert, but from most of the posts made by AW folks who have also owned Clevos, all seem to agree the Clevo's cooling wins hands down. Where they fall short is forcing you to use SW to OC rather than opening things up in the BIOS, and even that can be overcome w/ an unlocked BIOS from Prema or you can do it yourself.

However, in this model, since the TDP footprint is so large, it begs the question, is the cooling system adequate to keep an OC'd desktop cool. I still maintain since the model is not out, who knows. Perhaps they're working on their best cooling system to date.

For those doubters who think it is still too hot, then you should consider a different model - like the P370EM - rumored to be available in Aug. I believe it will be similar to this model, but with a mobile CPU - since the mobile CPU has a lower TDP footprint, it might have greater OC'ing capability - again based on what kind of cooling system is placed in either model.

 

there are many different types of clevo laptops the same with AW. tbh the cooling from 11x to 17x are joke, comparing them to ASUS laptop its like comparing 40-50C idle temp to 28-32 idle temp. what im comparing is the flagship laptop. m18x vs clevo with desktop CPU. my 18x at 4.4ghz on all 4 threads can stay under 75C during heavy load, i simply get hwinfo and turn fan to near max. the DEFAULT cooling system which i never get use to for alienware, seems to be flawed in someways, easily going over 55C idle temp for just sitting there.

if its me i wouldnt compare default settings vs default settings, thats just dumb. you could have a laptop switchable between intel HD graphics or nvidia graphic, and its set to intel as default and comparing it a lower version of nvidia graphic in another laptop, it just doesnt make sense. what i am looking at is at max performance, at many types of situation and what can be the best without having issues, and AW seems to be on top atm, with OC that is.

if this new clevo is going to use sandy E with a redesign and possibly make its cooling way better than before i just might make the jump even if its a 17 inch laptop with mostly plastic chassis on the outside. if they were to use ivy E, things could get a bit different but when that happens, maybe a new model would be out who knows.

 

Or Clevo could just, ya know, shorten the laptop a bit width-wise which would make the bezel smaller and decrease it's overall footprint (although in my opinion the gains in both areas wouldn't be very significant)

No, this is already fastest 'thing' you can get short of hauling a LAN box + monitor around. Also, if overclocking seems to always screw things up for you, you're doing it wrong!

While Ivy Bridge certainly does have an "issue" with running hot, it's not something to be 'fixed' more than it is something to be improved on. Eh, I'm probably just nick-picking at your wording, but I don't want the idea going around the Ivy Bridge is somehow broken.

If you are purchasing the P570WM, hopefully it's because you need or have a really, really good reason to want a SB-E CPU for it's raw processing power on-the-go. That's the whole point of the CPUs being used in this case, if you really need the CPU to be overclocked then go build a desktop for it. That being said, I certainly wouldn't mind having the option to overclock these processors even just a little bit if the cooling system will allow for it. I think the i7 3820 could really shine here as it's performance is already ahead of the 2600k, and with only 4 cores it has a better chance at being overclocked vs the 3930k/3960x

 

well, when I did have a desktop I did OC (back in the day) but with laptops I find it's just too hard, when actually being used as a laptop to keep the environment stable enough to maintain it. with my laptop every so often it's not sitting on a level surface, or there is something sitting under the laptop that maybe partially blocking an intake or vent and an OC'd chip would most likely have a heart attack!

if Clevo were to change anything...making it thinner would be nice

 

So basically any time the fan intake is being blocked, causing the CPU to overheat? Well of course it's unstable, the cooling on it sucks! [/pun]
Also it's hard to tell whether or not you are implying that the laptop was overheating at stock clocks or if it was overheating after being OC'd.

 

I've never OC'd the Laptop, I'm suggesting that if it was OC'd it would be considerably more unstable, at the moment if the vents etc get blocked it actually keeps operating quite nicely, the fans just gradually start to spin up... I expect that when you start to OC in a big way you get more noise and more heat...

Clevo could learn a lot about making effective cooling from HP's server department.

 

there are only several reasons for cpu to overheat in a laptop.
dead fan, heatsink not intact properly, dead thermalpaste needs to be repasted, poorly designed vents/blcokd vents, poorly designed heatsink, broken heatsink/pipe. theres probably a few more but thats the general ones.

 

Yep, and even partially faulty/blocked of the above is why I figure it's easier to just not overclock...that way you have a larger safety/thermal envelope before the machine becomes unstable, I can well understand overclocking from a Value standpoint, but work bought this laptop so they can spend an extra dollar as required.

 

imo its better to find out the faults and fix it. OC and reach a instant 85-95C will alert you that something is wrong and needs to be fixed. instead of having it without OC and not knowing any issues, put the computer to do overnight work (encoding, 3D rendering at near full CPU usage at stock speed) only to find out computer toasted in the morning.

 

Thats kind of what they did with the 'back to the drawing board" redesign.

I would sure like to get a status update on where they are and what design changes have been made. I'm planning to wait it out before replacing my Asus. Hopefully it doesn't totally crap out before the end of the year. By then it will be 4 years old. I've certainly gotten my moneys worth out of it, but its time to move on to current technology.

 

Win 8 is scheduled for 10/26 release date, I guess there is no chance of seeing the NP570 before then..................

 

We can always order it without an OS, then install Windows 7 ourselves. I know I will.

I always figured the P570WM would be released sometime around November, with shipments arriving sometime in December. I am still hopeful for such a time frame.

 

Regardless, I hope ppl will refrain from pre-ordering this time around. It was painful to read those posts.

 

lol clevo wanted money pretty badly, putting laptop out for preorder in feb and delayed till april, may, then on hold till end of this year or possibly early next year for release. it looks like haswell mobile cpu most likely wont go to 6/12 cores, it'll stay at 4/8 so i'll just get m18xr2 if this laptop takes too long to come out.

 

The resellers were just as guilty by using pressure tactics to get buyers on the first lists with threats their orders would be significantly delayed by not doing so. I didn't feel bad getting on a preorder list because I was going to purchase a new laptop regardless of whether I was first on the list or #10,435 in line.

Fortunately, I was able to get a full refund with no hassle whatsoever, but this time I'm going to wait until the laptop is actually released. If Clevo continues to have problems with production of this model I will cross it off my list and move on to something else. My goal is to make a purchase by the end of the year; it will either be a Clevo or something else, but the Clevo is my first choice. Hopefully they don't let their customers down again.

 

Totally agree with the above.

You can't push a desktop CPU to far in a laptop, the power consumption spikes quite a bit and as a result not even the best cooling can handle the heat.


Mobile CPU's shine when OC'ed. The [email protected] (totally stable in the M18xR2, even with the stock/locked BIOS) outperforms the 3960x (stock) even in heavily multithreaded benches. Dell did a great job and the cooling system in the m18xr2 got beefier. If the bios is unlocked the CPU can go all the way up to 5ghz stable, IMHO. For Clevo to compete, they have to make a 250W heatsink. Dunno if it's possible but let's hope...

 

Yes. We agree. A totally redesigned cooling system. One that is capable of cooling off an 8 core CPU. As I've said more than once, you guys are probably right, but I'm holding off judgment until the actual release.

 

nope, cooling isnt a problem, clevo lose at power phase, i mean even 300w heatsink or dry ice/ln2 cooling, clevo still blocked by poor power supply circuit
even new p370em is 3+1 phase(1 dedicated for igpu).........far behind 5 phase m18x

and again, intel's mainstream-refresh-first marketing has ruined their high end platform(2600k oc beats 980x)(4770k? oc beats 3960x)

 

So you pretty much are saying that this laptop will pretty much be behind with other high-end brands when it comes out in the market?

 

I wonder how a company like Clevo could miss something as important as power phase and cooling capacity. 3960x is the top dog and requires more than just a proper socket. I'd love to have a laptop with this processor but only if it was possible to fully utilize its potential. Of course, I'm not asking for 5ghzx12threads in a laptop but even at 4.5ghz this cpu would be a marvel.

 

thats all for marketing, money$$$$$$$
i would say only 10% or less who buy clevo desktop cpu dtr knows what is "overclock", and 3% or less of them really oc it, and 1% or less not just oc for benching but for long-term usage.........(alienware probably 30%-10%-3%? i think)
clevo have no reason to provide more heat/power to the machine, 90%+ buyer never need or care about it......

btw remember msi gx600, it first have "turbo button" on it which let user easily oc/max out battery, and thats my first gaming lappy

 

yes, intel really shoud correct their roadmap to this:
sandy-e>>>sandy>>>ivy-e>>>ivy>>>haswell-e>>>haswell>>>broadwell-e>>>broadwell.................high end first, always be the best
but not
sandy-e>>>ivy>>>haswell>>>ivy-e>>>broadwell>>>skylake>>>haswell-e....................always mainstream refresh beats old high end

 

reason i could think of getting extreme CPU out after mainstream is because they want to test the CPU more before letting it go. i can certainly say that an extreme CPU 12 threads would lose to a extreme CPU 12 threads simply because intel tend to put more work towards later released cpu, which is why we get 3960x and 3970x.

it is almost certain that 3970x (lower the speed) at the same frequency as 3960x would run cooler and hopefully faster? probably just cooler though. reminds me of core 2 duo T5750 vs T8100, 2.0ghz compare to 2.1 but t8100 is like +20% performance and runs hella cooler.

but nevertheless i would love 8c/16t ivy E in this thing even at 4ghz tbh with great or decent working condition. it's 4 fans struck me as a must have but no point owning one if it cant do its job releasing heat lol.

 

Just found this: P570WM CLEVO Europe - assembleur ordi PC portable clevo

Seems the configuration page is based on the old P270WM template (note only 675M available). Interesting. Says it's not available yet. Bummer.

 

sorry mate, this thing is looking pretty down right now as to using a CPU thats 3/4 year old. clevo will probably and hopefully redesign this for ivy E or haswell E and bring out the 8c/16t or no chance im getting this. even if the cooling in this thing gets better, wont be enough to OC it past 4.5 and fosho i wont have my hopes up, not to mention ivy mobile is about 10-15% better performance than sandy mobile core per core.

basically im looking at a 4.5ghz ivy comparing to 4.5ghz sandy but with 10% bonus boost, not to mention this will still be SANDY E for the desktop, lower in clock frequency. either get this with IVY E or no go, or perhaps they could bring k5000 in SLI? but i highly doubt it. not to mention problems with IVY desktop cpu having issues OCing

k5000 just announced today, seems to be faster than 680m by quite a bit, of course with 4GB of ram but probably wont support SLI.

 

It's all marketing BS, there's no extra performance or stability in the X versions. In fact, there are some reviews that claim the x to be weaker than the k, since it runs hotter due to the extra cache and as such can't be pushed too far. So what's the point of having that cache if it's hindering the CPU in benches?

If Clevo ever releases a machine capable of handling such processors without stability issues, I might consider a 3930k or higher as it has more chances to be OC'ed and costs 1/2 the price of the x.

 

now that made sense. i guess mainstream CPUS get worked on more so better ones come out later but the market for extreme cpu is so small they wont bother with it.

as for the cache, im sure intel would know that by now just curious why they dont release something like 3960x or 30k but with only 8mb cache like most of their highend but not extreme cpu.