*** Official Sager NP9877 / Clevo P870TM-G Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 4 ***

I have a bitspower, the Rockitcool IHS and a custom IHS with the die pattern milled into it. Plus a couple of others that were sent to me to play with.
So .5mm shim+ (+-).5mm extra height of IHS = some warping. Hopefully I'll get a chance to snatch the laptop apart tomorrow for a repaste and make a valiant effort on lapping a IHS and trying a thicker shim to correct that warping I'm getting. Once I get the center of the plate back down on the IHS I'll give the ICD Thermal Pad another go.
I'm wondering how much I can actually bend the Heatsink itself and not have to apply as much pressure per screw .

 

IIUC you dremeled a bigger cutout on the underside of the IHS to fit the bigger cfl-s die?

 

Correct

 

All laptops everywhere throttle when they hit 90+ something Celsius, it's possible to change this in the unlocked bioses from EUROCOM (as an example) as well, but the trick is actually not hitting that temperature to begin with, with proper cooling. The CPU will throttle itself regardless at something like 104C no matter what anyways, thats built in and not able to be changed.
Usually things will break before that, if the system is running that hot anyways, in the long run, no bios is going to change that, but do you remove that somehow ? If so is that not dangerous ?

I mean can you explain better the differences between your bios and one that gets the menu's unlocked, and gets the extra support for other video cards added etc... what specifically does a Prema bios do, thats different, people have asked this before, for a side by side comparison for example , from like the unlocked bios from a EUROCOM system, as our example, and something you do with your bios, this is what many want to know and see, I think.

From my understanding, no one needs either of these, and 99% of users simply will not benifit from either, honestly. Just my opinion of course, why pay hundreds of dollars more, for something you do not need or are going to use, because you have to buy from only select sellers.
I want to know, what tangible difference there is, to justify it, like so many others. Seems to be one of these gimmicky things for systems these days, like imagine if we had to pay for an unlocked bios in a desktop ? This is why I never charge for the unlocked bioses, but thats me, my sales personally (not trying to advertise, honestly), plus is never something that is my work only, and the amount of time invested in flashing for instance is not something I feel I should be charging people for, so I never do. The few times someone asked for a Prema this or that, I sent them to you, but like all sellers, we have our own of course. When they ask me the difference, I have no facts to give them other then branding, because they have never really been provided, and are not well understood or there are no comparisons that I've seen, that provide the needed information to show what your getting exactly. For the most part - our unlocked bioses - are every damnable menu and option unlocked, on the latest available bios. Which also then includes support to always have the unlocked latest bios as they come out.

I hope I'm not bothering you with all these questions, but you can see where I am coming from, customers ask this stuff all the time. If I could show them, it would help you and I personally would like to know as well. Especially if it turns out we have the exact same things to offer, because then I can simply as a matter of factly show them there really is no tangible difference, or that there is infact something different.

 

You find bench scores from Eurocom’s unlocked bios in the forum. All are crippled in one way or another! See f.eks 53x from latest Core i7 is equal scores below stock clocks. Hit up @Eurocom Support’s posted scores and you can see what I mean. I haven’t seen a single bench score Who looks normal for the (oc’d) Cpu clock speed.

 

Yeah they do not show crazy score results but I can match if not beat anyone's scores I've seen with the same stock bios, so that point is mute, no ? I mean, I've done it like hundreds of times, I personally see no difference. I'm not trying to stroke my OCing ego here, I really don't give a rats butthole about overclocking, got bored of that over a decade ago, but I do it for all of my clients if they ask for it, and usually they are the highest scorers around. usually even years later on the same laptop, with EUROCOM bioses. I would put money here, to back this up, if it was possible, to prove my point. Then again, you might argue it has some degree of skill from one user to the next, which i do not entirely believe, because once everyone knows the same tips and tricks, I suspect we could all do the same.

So again, what are the side by side comparisons of features, if any differences, at all, because every time this comes up, its nothing but smoke and mirrors, everytime from everyone. I want to know, others want to know, you'd think after all this time all this hype there would be tangible differences pointed out, and easily accessible and publicly known - BUT IT IS NOT, so thus when I get asked over and over every week, what the differences are, I have to answer in kind, I have no idea but I suspect nothing really, except a name and branding, because I have nothing concrete to prove otherwise, except some hype - which in all fairness might be indicative of something, but I wish to know what exactly.

is it possible, people simply do not know better, and have been sold on an idea that they think one thing is better than another and simply value it for that ? it wouldn't be far fetched. 'm not trying to be a douche bag here, but someone back me up here, do we not want to know this stuff? is this not the sort of thing we discuss here on these very forums ?We used to be very informative, but now a tiny bit less so, and more about the hype and sentiments than anything. I'm still not saying or intending to discredit Prema, as I have no proof of anything, except there are no tangible details or side by side comparisons. its not like notebookreview (if you have heard of them) does reviews of laptops and features, and reviews bioses. because they never have ever done a Prema review as far as I know of, if they did please show me, so I can read it and learn, maybe it has what I am looking for.

If it truly is such a feature, then it should have reviews everywhere, really. It's being sold, for money as a product, it's labelled, but theres nothing I have seen or heard of that proves it is anything different. Benchmarks are relative, if not done in a fair comparison.

EDIT : to add this, maybe this is the wrong thread for this sort of rant, my bad. We should start a new thread somewhere on this forum, where is appropriate ?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/prema-bios-questions.795536/

@Prema

 

@woodzstack - for the whole community, it would be really good to hear from Prema partners and then other companies such as Eurocom who have their own unlocked versions (am I right in thinking that we could also include Obsidian in this?). I understand your point completely, in fact those who I think can really make good use of a fully unlocked BIOS are a very small percentage of the owner base. But the more intricate features - well to put it like this, if I was working for a Prema partner I would want to make the differentiation extremely clear and promote examples and performance differences in videos, reviews and so on. Perhaps this part is a little lacking, simply due to the nature of the setup.

@Prema isn't selling the BIOS to end user customers, so from my point of viewI would expect the partners and resellers to promote the advantages themselves - at the end of the day it's the reseller who is selling the product. For overclocking, TDP unlimiting and some other factors such as memory support I think the case is pretty clear and people understand this side, but there are lots of other factors which perhaps aren't as clear cut or are more difficult to explain to the non-tech savy user.

I'm not criticising anyone here, just that I think there could be more content available to clearly differentiate real world benefits.

 

@woodzstack

What do you want man? You can not offer Prema Mod to your customer, because your supplier doesn't give a crap about morals. Do you really want to hurt you own business by me answering that question further in public (PM wasn't enough?) and go down the drain alongside them?

Numbers don't lie, so there is no need to compare performance with anything else, because it doesn't.
I am also not handing out a 'pending features to copy from Prema' list, my stuff simply works as expected since 2011.
No advertisement needed. Every stock and other 'unlocked BIOS' out there is power limited on ALL Clevo's since 2015 (some systems already before that), no matter what options they provide.
If a company sells a 780W power supply with a system that is hard limited to below 330W or a 200W with a system hard limited to 150W and advertise that it helps the performance they are simply knowingly deceiving their customer.
Eurocon BIOS is nothing but an 'unlock everything' and 'hope for the best' job done for them by Svet in 5 Minutes and then sold for 150-200 bucks to unknowing user. They had no other choice as I refused to play along with their greedy game. So there is that tiny bit and believe me you don't want me to tell the full story.

P.S.: I am on holiday, so don't expect me to show up here for another few weeks...

EDIT: I am not considering myself a bencher by any measures. Just fooling around with my own firmware and system like everyone else (on air > without AC, non-silicon lottery CPU, no OS optimization or any other tricks):

Spoiler

 

Nice bench Prema

 

Prema is a God.
And having a Eurocom unlocked Bios means absolutely nothing if the EC turns it into a throttling mess.
And due to a bug in MSI's *CANCER CODE* regarding BGAbook firmware, of which the 16L13 is still in the same family of (a problem with the Bios code and Embedded Controller RAM register E3), you can't exceed CPU Stock TDP without changing IMON SLOPE and IMON OFFSET.

 

I do not know what to say. You seem to have your reasons for being vague, I'm not trying to serve myself here, but people want to know.
You said it yourself "Every stock and other 'unlocked BIOS' out there is power limited on ALL Clevo's since 2015 (some systems already before that), no matter what options they provide."
You mean the initial ALPHA bioses, like the early stuff, because many times instead of holding back a lineup, some companies decide to go ahead and sell the laptop when its 2-3 months earlier then expected and still using a alpha bios, with pending updates in the future. Many are absolutely fine with the upper limit on power.
But for example, are you saying the EUROCOM X9C has a 150W hard limit to power ? You said all Clevo's out there, I'm just choosing one example, and want to know whats what, you gave the example of a system that sells with a 780W PSU so I choose the the only one I know of from EUROCOM for example.
If it was 150W limited, then a SLI 1080 and 8700K and 4 dimms of RAM and HDD/SSD's and a panel and keyboard and lights and three fans an d USB connections - none of these would work. Remove the two GPU's and it would be at it's limit already. In the example with the 780W you cite below 300W...

Has this been tested ? How do we figure it's not drawing even 300W ? I hope this doesn't come off as being argumentative, not trying to be negative, I really want to know this stuff, and your saying something that counters what is logical to me, and implies the main distributor of Clevo's in north America is flawed, if not the main brand itself.
(like why even bother with this brand if its so gimped ????) Anyways, I want proof of this stuff, no one ever seems to provide it, it's all conjecture so far still, which is like me offering my opinion as fact, which is not acceptable. Essentially I am no where closer to giving a potential customer a valid answer because it again still appears none exists.
The bench means little to me, because we can do that on a stock bios, given the amount of other details missing as headroom to interpret as I please, save it won't say "premamod", but is that the only "proof" of your bios doing anything ?(in this situation I mean, we are relatively sure your bioses do infact do something, not disputing it, just disputing that whatever it does is actually known or not, or different)

 

P7xxTMx are limited to 256W by default ( https://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroc...0-Clevo-P751TM1-G-Laptop-Review.281388.0.html)
P870TMx are limited to 480W by default

Of course you can match that score on stock BIOS...
You can pick the best silicon lottery 8086K out of the thousands EC sells and use Svet's...cough..I mean Eurocon's BIOS for what all I care and likely still won't be able to back up your claims to beat that random 8700K run.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...m-owners-lounge.809621/page-132#post-10755691

 

I see what you said there, Prema <3

EuroCON.

I just want that 8 core 9700k or whatever it's called and the gefarts 1180 with Prema blessed Bios.

 

I'm not having a go here, just that lots of this needs explaining and clearing up:

No, he means all official BIOS and all unlocked BIOS which don't have the power limits removed or at least raised. From what has been discussed, the Eurocom BIOS are just unlocked which means you're still going to hit a ceiling because the power limits are the same as a stock BIOS.

I've never seen a laptop sold 2-3 months earlier than expected, but I have seen companies sell laptops with the first MP BIOS which we haven't found acceptable. But that has nothing to do with power limits.

No, he said "If a company sells a 780W power supply with a system that is hard limited to below 330W" then " or a 200W with a system hard limited to 150W and advertise that it helps the performance they are simply knowingly deceiving their customer." Not in any way that a 780W PSU is sold with a 150W hard limited system.

Yes of course, you can measure it yourself, or you can look at the limits in the firmware, you can look at the components used in the circuitry and what they're rated to and so on.

Firstly, they aren't the main distributor of Clevo in N. America.

Secondly, even if a company (not one in particular or in any specific line of business) is the biggest in a certain market has no bearing on a company's competance. A company can easilly be the biggest whilst being the cheapest or selling lower quality goods.

Do you need to give your potential customer a valid answer about Prema BIOS (which you can't offer) or the Eurocom BIOS (which you can offer)? Because it's Eurocom's job to tell you what the benefits of their BIOS is so that you can explain that to your customers - it's the job of the Prema partner resellers to explain to their potential customers what the benefits of the Prema BIOS are. I think Prema has done enough explaining in his time, there's such a wealth of information around regarding power limits, compatability, memory support etc etc it's pretty hard to miss it. Does every customer need it? No. But that's not the point.

Eurocom, Origin, Obsidian to name a few have their "own" BIOS - if we want to get into Prema then everyone needs to be put under the microscope - but no one is going to be giving away tradesecrets.

Edit;

"The only exceptions where I have admitted and willing accept modified bioses were good, where when there were issues in the current revision of a system bios, like fan tables not working properly or support for newer GTX cards etc... all things that usually get addressed within the laptops lifetime, but if your an early adopter, buying a system from a few resellers 2-3 monthsbefore an official launch world wide of a new lineup or laptop"

I only just saw this post where you also said that you hadn't got the info you requested from your supplier, so some of my points above might not be valid. On are above:

Fan control is from EC, we have had our own versions on some more but I'm not aware of anyone else doing this, even Prema shyed away, partly because of how complex they got.

Support for new graphics cards requires complete recertification, it's usually offered by third parties.

Even early adopters can't buy laptops before an official launch, 2-3 months before and you're still looking at a very very small number of pre production chassis which are supplied under NDA to selected partners. You're correct that some launches have quick updates but it's definitely not all sales driven, for example we have on several occasions delayed releasing new laptops until were satisfied. In these cases you're relying on the reseller or SI to make a decision and that takes into account their reputation and support - though some will either go head first in or they don't pick issues up.

 

@Mr. Fox

Prema BIOS Benefits

• Restores user ability to overclock or underclock the CPU
• Restores user control over CPU power settings (voltage, watts, amps) for optimal performance and/or thermal efficiency
• Restores ability to control non-turbo CPU core ratio
• Restores ability to control CPU c-states and p-states
• Restores ability to control BCLK (northbridge) and FCLK (System Agent) frequency
• Restores ability to enable Intel Speed Shift Technology functionality
• Restores ability to disable Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX) functionality which is intended for software developers who want to use that feature and causes erratic system behavior
• Restores ability to control RSR, Watchdog Timer, ASPM, ACPI sleep and hibernation functionality
• Restores ability to control RAM timings, clock speeds and enables the utilization of XMP profiles
• Restores ability to control selection of Legacy, UEFI and CSM to install whatever operating system is desired
• Restores ability to control CPU-based DEP, AES (encryption) and Virtualization
• Restores ability to control GPU scaling, PCIe speed and power management features
• Restores control over Thunderbolt and USB 3.1 configuration
• Restores control over SATA port configuration and Intel LPM. Having the ability to disable drive ports allows exclusive control over what drive receives the BCD/boot sector, system and recovery partitions during Windows Setup and eliminates the need to physically remove non-OS drives when installing a new OS.

 

[email protected] from Eurocom (fully unlocked)

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/15816395
I have never received a reply back on my quote. I think we stop here.

 

How can you overclock that much?? I got near 90ºC when I set multiplier at x48 on all six cores, and as I undervolt -65mV offset I get only like 4300 MHz on all six cores (I guess that's because my undervolt) ...

 

The score above is heavly crippled. More like from 4.2GHz.

This is from my 3 years old Clevo P870DM-G with the old Z170 Chipset and Prema Mod.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...gtx-1080-upgrade.814711/page-57#post-10749463

 

Exposing hidden menus alone is never enough with laptop cancerware. You need someone like @Prema to physically remove throttle feces code from the firmware in order for a system to function correctly. The OEM/ODM can say it functions "as intended" all they want to, but that is just a lame excuse that translates into, "we're extremely stupid and don't know why our junk is broken" when a product will refuse to hold stock clock speeds under load. If it won't hold stock clocks under load, or doesn't perform at a specific level compared to other systems with the same specs and settings due to throttling, then it's screwed up. Period. End of discussion.

 

All of that is in the unlocked bioses from EUROCOM as well.... I'm asking whats the difference.

 

Simply exposing hidden menus is not enough. It does nothing to remove the throttling malware code laptops are cursed with. See bold text below. This requires someone with knowledge of all the secret places (UEFI/BIOS, UEFI "OS" code and EC code) to look and an intentional seek and destroy mission, along with a lot of testing to confirm the exorcism was effective and did not break something else in the process. This is one of the reasons @Prema is awesome. He has that skillset and knowledge. Not many do. It is also tedious and time consuming hex editing work.

It's unfortunate that we need talent such as his to have notebooks that are not castrated, but thank God we have him or there would not be any laptop "high performance" anywhere worth owning. They're pretty much all broken garbage the way they roll off the assembly line.

 

Each person throttling is a relative situation, you can not simply blame the system alone, I personally have no problems beating ALL of your scores every single one you have EVER done Mr.Fox, and I've done it everytime, you know this. You on Prema, and me on EUROCOM's bios.( I'm also nothing special here, I only been at this sort of thing for maybe barely 20+ years, most of you much longer I'm sure) So, many regard you as the expert betwix the two of us, but I doubt you meant to imply EUROCOM's unlocked menu's and bios revisions were the superior one your referring too (again I think theres no difference, as no one has YET to say a single thing that is different, or shown anything, no work, no explicit example technical wise or whatnot jargon code or example of a difference, aside from a logo and some text saying "Premamod bios".

Again not trying to put down Prema, I like him, I believe in him and his work, I'm all down for it, its 100% what I believe in all the way, but I still fail to see the distinction.
On the internet you do not simply believe everything you read, unless it is more then someone's opinion, if you get what I mean. What about a technical comparison, or someone actually saying what the difference is. Or is it just hype ? Many brands are all about hype, thats cool, theres nothing wrong with that, it's no discredit to anyone really. I've been saying for awhile SVET and his work should be a brand, maybe we should help him. Maybe his unlocked bioses are the real deal. he does this WAY more often and is WAY more technical and deserving of praise then anyone I know in this regards. the guy helps people pretty much 24/7 and acts like a saint about it. Even shows people how to do the work themselves, so they can start modifying thier own bioses and put thier own names there, for instance I have some EUROCOM laptops with an ALEZKA brand and tons of things I mixed and matched between various bioses I've picked up from other peoples modified bioses, I think I only sent it to maybe one or two customers, you know, people who specifically asked me for a computer to beat Mr.Fox by name because they wanted to be proud of thier laptop or such - each to thier own. I wish Mr.Fox had his own brand of laptops. I'd buy one , even just for the logo haha !

Anyways, whats the meat behind the truth here, is it all hush hush the truth about this or is someone going to blow a whistle or not ? Because it sounds like a group of people got together to find a way to trash the name of other companies not part of the click, and suggest all kinds of differences, but NONE HAVE YET BEEN TRUE, no differences have been said of shown, the only citations where from Pheonix, however his name is spelled, but all that is in the SVET unlocked bios and the others I've seen, nothing special there. I can do this myself, honestly, thanks to other peoples help. Argh I hate referencing people if anyone wants me not to mention them, just say it and I leave you out of this, none of this arguing is any part of my intention. I just want the tangible facts behind this rumor that there really is no difference between these bioses. You know even when I ask the big companies or the higher ups, they have NOTHING TO SAY, like it's some big secret that they are all cashing in on. If I seem agitated its not directed at anyone personally, this is just a point of confusion for me and customers and I sympathies with them not knowing the difference. (you know, removing rumour and opinions and such. Sticking to facts. I do not know of a difference. No evidence shown. )

 

Please contact our Tech Support Team to help you make sure your Prema BIOS and other settings are correct.

If you should ever need international tech support or warranty service please contact our Tech Support Team by phone at 011+1-562-485-6541 Extension 3, between 4 PM and Midnight GMT, Monday through Friday, by email at [email protected], or by Online Support Ticket at http://www.hidevolution.com/contacts/ (in the department dropdown menu select Zoltan S – Tech Support).

 

As an owner of the notebook, and also having the eurocom bios ( my original mobo died due to me dicking around with CPU fans, so I had to eat it and purchase one from Eurocom, as it came with a fully unlocked bios) I can attest that having a Eurocom unlocked bios is nothing - absolutely - nothing Id pay 120+- or whatever the selling price of it per thier site is. With that said, I've sat back and giggled at this .
I normally don't jump in on stuff like this...
If Prema nor his partners want to disclose what is "under the hood" then that is thier business. And good on whomever it was that you said shared thier info and whatnot etc. But given how Prema was done in the Past , I wouldn't care to share much info either.
And also with the whole unlocked menus bios BS from Eurocom.
Had everything been truly unlocked , I could have gotten alot of things resolved with the secondary CPU fan I was working with. I can fully attest in saying that just because you see it in a menu does NOT mean it works , or works as intended.

 

Sorry to say this is crap, even I asked here how prema is different from others in terms of features and other things which will help but nobody compare it only singing a song. I really frustrated that time.

How will customer will come to know. This forum is a source of Information were different users share the experience with benchmark results and helps each other. But I feel like its like vendor Vs vendor. Honestly this how i feel sometimes here.

I think if prema is thinking people will copy his features which is extraordinary and not possible to disclose it than he can do patent. However its his place to decide because he is the owner but customer point of view and my point of view its better if there comparison.

Even the time of buying people said go with HID due the service they offer and yes they do with prema bios but I didn't face any problem with woodzstack too even i eaten is his brain. I will do with others too because i'm paying for something and i want to make sure my doubts will be clear. I don't know may be here are people having high shot overclocker so the bios configuration according to them seriously I don't know because nobody want to and it's frustrating for me sometimes but now its ok for me some users helps here and there is plenty sources.

I don't want to offend anyone but this how I feel. For me if purchase from anyone its not matter if i can give support I will do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

What you say is not trustworthy. NUMBERS PLEASE!! Don't hide you back once again where you say you won't post numbers due your customers may be disappointed.

Edit. Maybe more correct English.... Don't hide you behind your customers once again as before. Where you say you won't post any numbers due your customers may be disappointed (low scores).

Just post results from your testing before the notebooks go out to the customers.

See also below.

This is BIG claims above, Woodz. Same as I myself said I could run 7.0GHz on my oc'd 8700K without posting proof. And I have followed up whats happening in the performance notebook world the last years.

This ain't pretty.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...6-owners-lounge.797128/page-601#post-10528044

http://hwbot.org/submission/2447356_

Yet, not a single numbers out there. All good bench numbers I have seen out there from notebooks the last years is only from @Prema firmware. About time you or Eurocom start post some numbers who ain't crippled.

 

ROFL!

When people can't have something, they tend to make up very nice excuses to lie to themselves saying why I don't want it


Don't expect to see any numbers brah!

PS: You don't need to worry about your english since Woodzstack, a native English speaker doesn't know how to spell Phoenix

 

951 marks at 7ghz
But 4.5 = ?

 

Sorry for offtop, but dear Prema, I really need your help. PM me please, because I can't. This is about bios modding.

 

Or the big boy 4 core Haswell desktop chips (i7-4790K) can't run higher than 6.1GHz in XTU... On LN2 https://hwbot.org/benchmark/xtu/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_3621&cores=4#start=0#interval=20

 

I've recently bought a P870TM from ClevoCenter but have noticed some weird artifacts appearing on the screen from time to time in Windows (never ingame so far). Seems to be happening around the borders of certain images or even Chrome itself.

I've attached a picture. Could this be the screen, GPU or a software issue?

 

All of the technical details about the firmware mods will not be disclosed, and the only person that has the technical details is @Prema. He does not share that information even with his test group that he is closest to.

But, in terms of practical application, I did answer that specifically as possible. Twice. After all, the practical application (cause and effect) and benefits are what matters most...

Having unlocked menus is really important because it makes valuable firmware configuration features available (like CSM as one example - see the long list from @Phoenix) that Micro$lop wants inaccessible to end users, but unlocked menus doesn't fix the throttling crap. Adjusted settings to fix throttling when those settings do not work because of hidden code that applies performance limits regardless of the settings sucks. That is not Micro$lop's fault. We have the skanky OEMs and ODMs for that level of customer betrayal.

That said, unlocked menus with throttling is better than throttling without unlocked menus, but it's not a complete package with a notebook that runs correctly in terms of performance. But, something (unlocked menus) is always better than nothing (stock BIOS). And, definitely better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick (stock BIOS).

 

Does 3d run ok?

 

Hi guys, you might remember me from such hits as "Dear Prema".

After spending an afternoon reading the 209 pages of forum posts in the owner's lounge I have to say wow... there's a big community supporting this laptop! I'd like to share the tweaks I'm implementing on my own system based on the various posts, and also ask for some advice on how to approach an issue I'm still facing.

Tweaks:

Spoiler: Premabios Tweaks

I've made the following tweaks to my Premabios:

Code:

Advanced -> Overclocking(1) -> Platform Power Limit 1 (mW) -> 200000
Advanced -> Overclocking(1) -> Platform Power Limit 2 (mW) -> 250000
Advanced -> Overclocking(1) -> VR Current Limit -> 900
Advanced -> CPU Power, VR & Performance -> CPU Power, VR & Performance Control -> CPU VR Settings -> Core/IA VR Domain -> TDC Enable -> Enable
Advanced -> CPU Power, VR & Performance -> CPU Power, VR & Performance Control -> CPU VR Settings -> Core/IA VR Domain -> TDC Current Limit -> 20000
Advanced -> Overclocking(2) -> Processor ->  Voltage Offset -> [150]
Advanced -> Overclocking(2) -> Processor ->  Offset Prefix -> [-]

These tweaks were based off a post and video from Phoenix.

Spoiler: Source 1 - Phoenix Post

Spoiler: Source 2 - Phoenix Video

Spoiler: CPU Tweaks

My 8700K was professionally delidded with the Silicon Lottery. I was tempted to delid it myself, but this will be my brother's video editing laptop and I'd rather not learn on someone else's die. I've applied my own Noctua NT-H1 thermal compound and (as mentioned before) the processor has received a -150mv offset.

When running AIDA64 my CPU lowers the multiplier from 45 to 43. If (in the bios) I set the "Core Ratio Limit Override" for all 6 cores, I can force the CPU to run faster than 4300 MHz but at this point, my temps are well in the 90s when running AIDA64 (Even with FN+1).

I am happy with this though. I'm limited by the heat dissipation of this system (which is by far the most robust I've ever seen) and that is exactly what I was hoping for.

Spoiler: GPU Tweaks

I've undervolted my GTX 1070 using afterburner. This was based on a post from hmscott

Spoiler: Source

This is what my voltage / clock curve tweak looks like (to achieve my GPU undervolt):

Spoiler: Voltage/Clock Curve Image

And this is what GPUZ looks like while I was running Unigine superposition benchmark (1080p windowed):

Spoiler: GPU-Z Screenshot

You may be wondering, why am I gimping my GTX 1070 down from its stock 1900 Mhz to 1700 Mhz... this leads me to the one and only glaring issue on an otherwise amazing machine.

The Fans (my issue):
My only major complaint with this laptop is how loud the fans get after sustained load on the GPU. I'm hoping that someone will know a tweak in the premabios to edit the fan curve. I also think it's possible I didn't install something and my fan tables aren't configured properly.

First, I installed the Clevo Control Center making sure to set the "Support XTU Fan Table" entry to "0" as mentioned in this thread:

Spoiler: Source

As far as I'm able to tell, there are 4 phases which govern the GPU fan speeds when configured in the "Automatic" mode (in the Clevo Control Center). I'll call these phase 0, 1, 2 and 3. (These are not their official titles! This is just what I'm calling them to convey my issue.)

• Phase 0 - The fan is off. The GPU fan usually doesn't enter this phase except when first booting. And then only for a minute
• Phase 1 - The fan is quiet. Usually occurs when GPU is idle.
• Phase 2 - The fan is moderately quiet. Usually occurs when GPU temps are around 78-81°C.
• Phase 3 - The fan is very loud. Usually occurs when GPU temps are approaching 85°C.

Once the GPU fan controller enters Phase 3 it will not lower the fan speeds until the GPU temperatures are in the sub 50°C range.
This said, phase 3 really does its job! Even with the GPU load at 99%, I saw my GPU temps lower from 85°C to 70°C.

The problem is the noise. When the fan controller spins up to cool the GPU down it goes from fairly silent to a very loud. I honestly wouldn't mind the GPU temps being in the mid 80's if it meant a more silent fan... Instead, I'm stuck in the low 70's with a very loud one.

Ideas on how to fix:

• Adjust GPU fan curve- I'd only really need to lower Phase 3's RPM value...
• More robust heatsink- Installing a vapor chamber heatsink (the one the GTX 1080's have). This might help because if I can keep the temps below that "Phase 3" threshold I mentioned before then I'd sit at Phase 2. (Can anyone vouch for the delta t when upgrading to a GTX 1080 vapor chamber heatsink on a GTX 1070?).
• Modding the GPU- I could attempt some sort of bios mod, though I haven't been successful finding any (could look harder). I also know there are programmers available to lower/raise TDP. Another idea I've had is lowering the thermal limit of the card so it sits just below the temperature that initiates phase 3.
• Downgrading to a GTX 1060- My reaction to this idea......

 

Well, to be fair, I do take screenshots of all the testing I do for customers, even if I do nto have these laptops here with me since they are shipped out, but PLENTY of my customers I've given them results of what I do and the tests etc, many times even leaving them on the desktop and with links to see it's thier laptop and such etc.. so no one is going to really question me there, but if you want specific tests from certain laptops I'd be happy to share. I've always been more of the mind to show what is realistic to expect and aim for a streamlined stable middle ground that will not require much maintenance, like a 4.5Ghz on a 8700K in a smaller notebook, maybe 4.7Ghz if it can keep it cool, and then i have peace of mind its good to go for a year that way. I sell more laptops in the winter, and places are generally cooler, my thinking is if I edged them out for the highest clocks, come summer 6 months later, when some pastes might need replacing, and the humidity and heat is on, they might not be as stable if I were to say, go mental and send them to customers with 5.1-5.2Ghz, 5.3Ghz is a stretch for everyday use on a 8700K from my experience, some might only hold that in ideal situations too, or with alot of work and tooling the heatsinks and getting everything done right - but it can be done, just not on all laptops, like forget about it on the X4C, unless you create simply an ideal environment for testing and benching specifically. But any numbskull knows this and knows what I mean, so no need for me to go into explaining what number chasers do. I still have Photo's of a test bed in someone's freezer with thier old Alienware's and Clevo's, who has tens of thousands of posts here on the forums and everyone knows very well, and the convo where they said this is how they do thier tests.

 

is there not some middle ground, like maybe not share anything that's giving away his specific property (mind you, I do not see a patent pending anywhere, or trademarks, so - whats the big deal ?)
Or are you suggesting ONLY technical things that can not be shared are the difference ?

I just want proof they are different, because I have reasons to believe otherwise, unless I take people's opinions as truth and forget the technical stuff, actually thats a no go, we all want specifics. When we buy a laptop, we enthusiasts, we focus on specifics, the details. We're not buying a laptop because of it's color, like some iMac back in the day, with vague details about any of it's performance. We're a heavily technically focused group of enthusiasts here on the internet, why settle for less than you have always demanded/wanted/expected etc...

If this was DELL selling things without specifics, would we be defending that ? Some of this just makes no sense. I'm really starting to feel there is something going on. I'm really just looking for something explanatory thats highlighting the differences. Not like what Phoenix mentioned which is also available on all the unlocked bioses from many vendors/resellers and in SVETs and EUROCOM's bioses and mine etc...

like a side by side comparison of the differences, maybe without giving away special technical trade secrets etc... wouldn't you all agree on wishing to know what your getting , buying, supporting etc...

Honestly, can anyone here say I am being unrealistic, if I am I want to know, I'm not trying to cause some issue, I am caught off guard by how simple this seems to me, and yet how vague it's become and how very few details are given, but so much mad love for the unknown (not that it is not justified, when things work I'm pleasantly happy too to support my favorite brands and such too, I get that, which is awesome).

 

Talk of patent/trademark/IP protection is completely unrealistic for multiple reasons but mainly the expense ($$,$$$ or more) is completely unfeasible given Prema works with end users on a donation basis. I'm guessing that's due to a restraint of trade clause of some kind he has agreed to with either his Partners or Clevo themselves. The alternative IP protection method is what has served the Coke formula and KFC's secret herbs and spices quite well ... trade secret. Given BIOSes are not groundbreaking in what they do, disclosing the algorithm or end result is perhaps enough for a knowledgeable person to reverse engineer his work, work which in the past has been stolen and used by scammers and thieves for self-enrichment. There's also possibly NDAs in play that may go as far as prohibiting disclosure that the NDA exists.

I agree it'd be great if all information flowed freely for the betterment of all our best intentions and desires but there's enough jerks out there that ruin it for us all.

Re side by side comparisons and something relevant to this thread:
Prema says his mod fixes the stock Clevo BIOS' 480W platform power limit based throttle on P870TM. Does Eurocom's?

 

Um, I really really, really really didn’t want to start a drama. Sorry bout that :/


@kfxsti tganks for making comment. After reading back through the 200 pages I figured you were the only one who was in a place to comment. Are you happy with Eurocoms bios anyway?


I’ve received my p870tm with its stock bios and for now I’m happy with it. I haven’t had time to oc much or bench at all, but currently it’s sitting at 87c max at 5.1Ghz when I’m using it for CAD and bf1 gets about 115 average FPS. The servers run at 60Hz anyways so I’m not missing anything.

Yes it voltage throttles And sometimes thermal throttles but I’ll look at delidding later.


If anything I was going to complain that I prefer the p380em’s rubberized exterior, blank lid and metal keyboard surround. Prema did me a solid after providing an opportunity to upgrade to 970m sli after my 7970 died (lol). That was actually via Eurocom in the end.


I do appreciate what this forum provides and everyone’s thoughts on Prema Bios are testimony enough, even without already having direct experience with Prema Bios. As an end consumer, it only requires a little googling and reading to get the impression that Prema Bios is the goods, without knowing why or what it actually offers.


Tbh the only missed opportunity to save my self from my own stupidity was xoticpc’s customer service. Otherwise I should have simply taken more time and done more reading before pressing go. Last time it was easy to get Prema, now it’s not so much. The reason I didn’t go with HIDEVOLUTION was simply that the budget was already stretched and I couldn’t go another $500 for delidding and Prema. I’m sure it’s worth it, I just don’t have the cash.


Anyway this is already TLDR...

 

You missed my thermal pad mod.

 

Apparently, I did. I've used the "Forum Search" feature in an attempt to locate your thermal pad mod but I didn't have any luck, would you mind referencing the post?

Edit: I've done some more playing with the fans and it seems the thermals really aren't the issue. After some tweaking with the "overclock" fan profile, the fans kick into high around 76°C... and the temps drop to around 67°C...

67°C for a GPU under full load in a laptop is a bit low isn't it?... the fans don't need to be this aggressive.

Is there no way to modify this fan curve?

 

In the Clevo control center there is a fan section for each performance profile.

 

As I understand it there are 4 options from the Clevo Control Center ( based on my observations and research)

• Maximum - Run the fans at full.
• Overclock - Run the fans with the "Automatic" profile with a positive fan speed offset.
• Automatic - Run the fans according to the default fan curve.
• Custom - Run the fans at a single user-specified speed. This is an all or nothing, the fans start spinning at a user-specified temp and will not stop until they drop below a user-specified temp.

I could work with the "Overclock" profile if it let me use a "negative" fan speed offset... sadly I cannot do this. Really what I need to do is lower the "MAX" fan speed for the "Automatic" profile.

Update1: I found the information (below) from a youtube video showing the features in an "Unlocked" BIOS. I think the parameter I'm wanting to adjust is the " Active Trip Point 0 Fan Speed". Is there any way to modify these values within the existing Premabios?

Spoiler: Source

Update2: It's odd, the GPU fans don't seem to be governed purely by the GPU core's temp. Sometimes they'll spin up when the GPU is just over 85 degrees... other times they'll spin up when the GPU is barely hitting 79... are they based on some other temperature that I'm not seeing via "CPUID HWMonitor"?...

Update3: The "high" fan speed is so overly aggressive that it's actually cooling the GPU down to a point where it reverts to the "low" fan speed. My 1070 is stuck alternating between high and low like a yo-yo because one is overly aggressive and the other isn't aggressive enough...

Here are my temps going up and down:

Spoiler: AIDA 64 Screenshot

Can I safely unplug the fan over the 2nd GPU slot (As I have no 2nd GPU)?
I've moved this last question to a dedicated forum thread here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/removing-redundant-slave-fan-in-clevo-laptops.821139/

 

Well, I've encountered it ingame as well now in two different games. Both times the horizontal lines are exactly on top of the screen and only occur when I make fast movements. I've already turned the NVIDIA power setting to optimal performance and turned off Gsync but to no avail.

 

I've attached another picture. It's always the top line of the monitor that exhibits this behaviour. I'm having this in multiple games. Faulty monitor perhaps?

Edit: I've tried installing older drivers, and even trying this particular game without a driver and the problem still persists..

Edit 2: I've noticed that it also appears in exactly the same scenes/situations. For example I can trigger it by watching a specific YouTube video full screen, and a specific point in the time in the video, the flickering will appear.
Same thing ingame, watching a certain scene will trigger etc.

Could it be the GPU nonetheless then?

 

That's my gut feeling. I had a thin Samsung laptop that started showing lines on specific youtube videos. This occurred after I tried pushing the igpu past its power limit for too long. It also would show artifacts after playing games for too long... I kept it around and it comes and goes...

You might try tweaking your voltage using afterburner. Raising or lowering it a few mv might make it stable...

 

Nvidia inspector can lower the 2d clock profiles that YouTube uses.

 

So, I've gotten my hands on the following panel B173QTN01.0 (ordered the 1.4 but didn't get it, thanks aliexpress) and put it inside my laptop, and all the artifacts were gone. So the 144hz monitor was definitely faulty.
However, after contacting my reseller, he says it was a "very risky move" to put the B173QTN01.0 on the FHD ribbon cable. Is this true? I thought only a new cable was needed for a 4k upgrade?

Can a reseller confirm this? And is it dangerous to keep using this screen?

@Meaker@Sager

 

I can only think they meant the cable and connector are quite delicate. There is no danger to running the panel.

 

Wow, the 1.0 screen is just so bad, the banding, the bleeding, the colors. You should get the FHD/144Hz is better and the GTX 1080 performance is more situable for 1080p than 3K. At 3K the GTX 1080 don't get 60 fps at max graphics settings on any game.