*** Official Sager NP9877 / Clevo P870TM-G Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 4 ***

Thanks a lot. Precisely what I was looking for !!!

On other news the 2080 RTX seems to be announced but it does NOT have 16 gb ram . Now I have different choices to choose from for sager next gen. Any advice from people here ?

 

Note that Prime95 fft and furmark are generally note recommended for mobile devices as they are power viruses and an extreme load. Gaming across a wide range of titles is a better test IMO.

 

RTX 2080 is desktop GPU like 1080TI and there are no plans to get this into laptops. Next GPU refresh is 1180 and 1170. 1180 is coming with 16GB and it's same size as curren gtx 1080.

 

I stand corrected and also GOOD to know . So now my wait for 1180 makes sense. When you say 'same size' I am guessing you mean same 'form factor'. I hope you didn't mean same size = same ram size / cuda cores memory size or any other size. If I am correct then it will have 16 gigs of memory size but same dimensions as older 1080.

Some other questions.

• When is the due date for 1180 ?
• When is the due date when clevo / clevo resellers might have it ?
• Will a single 1180 with 16 gigs be a nice bump good enough to take care of a 4k display for say final fantasy 15 or withcher 3. ! One huge reason for me looking for a laptop now is coz my otherwise decently powerful computer (not sager clevo powerful) lenovo y510p with 16 gigs ram and 2x2 750m in sli was not even able to give 5 fps on final fantasy 15.!! I knew that it won't work the best and I assumed that at the bare min settings(with everything turned off) it would alteast give me 30fps but 5!!!!! That was too bad.

 

The laptop next gen NVIDIA release date is still under non-disclosure, so no one knows for sure. It is guesswork at this point, and whatever dates are being 'leaked' are subject to change. My best guess is...and it is only a guess based on almost 20 years of watching these releases, and some inside the industry guesswork, is...watch for it at CES (Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas) in early January of 2019.

Clevo resellers should have them at release, whenever that turns out to be, or within a month or so of the release.

It is hard to say what kind of real 'bump' the 1180 will give over the 1080 until they are released and really tested, but if it goes like it usually does, it will be more like a small evolution rather than a significant revolution. 16GB of memory will probably be more for 'marketing fluff' than actual real world performance.

 

The part about testing makes sense but about the memory, I thought that it will be a boost unlike what nvidia has been doing for the past two years with the 980 1080 series because some actual competition was going to be in the market. To quote one such article
" Wccftech predicts that the GTX 1180 could offer performance 1.51x higher than the GTX 1080 and 1.18x faster than the GTX 1080 Ti. Such predictions should be taken with their own heaping tablespoon of salt, but the targets at least make sense. A 1.51x performance improvement over a bit more than two years is pretty reasonable, particularly in comparison with the CPU market, where AMD’s ~10 percent performance improvement with second-generation Ryzen is considered excellent for the market." --> https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/267982-nvidia-gtx-1180-specs-allegedly-leaked

 

The GTX 1080 was a huge jump in performance to me compared to the GTX 980M I'd say 60%+ jump in fps, but I'm not sure how big the jump was compared to the GTX 980 ...

Enviado desde mi G8441 mediante Tapatalk

 

48 gigs max on the quadro desktop cards with nvlink to combine it to 96GB. If you need gram that's where it's at and only 10,000 dollars each.

 

My stock 1080 is almost +100% over my previous 980M, which was overclocked by 20%.

 

Comparing the increase in performance between the 980M and 1080 will in no way relate to the difference between the 1080 and 1180. The former was indeed a huge jump, but the latter will not even be close to the same jump.

 

Hmm I assumed that the previous upgrades would pale in comparison to this one primarily because of AMD ryzen2 entry and the cores wars and Nvidia's ray tracing and also incoming gpus from intel and all that. So much competition so they would be forced to give something a little better than the usual!

As to the virtual memory isn't 16 gb of it going to make cards able to handle loads much better ? it is double of 8gb so that should matter a decent bit I should think !

 

There's multiple things here that are in complete contradiction with all of the most recent leaks over the past couple of weeks....

 

From what I know the RTX 2080 desktop card is around 210w TDP. This means we are back to the old days with M performance vs. the desktop cards. The coming topdog Mobile 1180 graphics will be equal RTX 2070(180w TDP) but probably with more and faster Vram. YEEE And Nvidia can also continue milk with a second type M graphics model as well... The crippled downscaled Max-Q From worse to even more worse. We will now have two types (downscaled or better say Crippled) Mobile graphics cards this time, LOOOL

@Mr. Fox

Same as the old GTX880M. Push out useless 8GB vram (marketing fluff to lure us to upgrade from 780M). We will most likely see same ****y this time again. Equal the MILKING ON KEPLER ( 780M - 880M).

The old days coming back equal 780M surpassed by 880M This means we will see a second Mobile upgrade vs. the only desktop card version. Yeah, Nvidia know how to....

 

With no competition to spur advancement, there's no real incentive for NVIDIA to keep pushing the envelope on performance. Unless they have a new gimmick to sell that needs more horsepower to drive it, they are just coasting along and enjoying the view from the top of the mountain as king of the hill. But, they do need to burn calories (and money) on marketing fluff to make everyone think that the next big thing new product is to die for. It is important to them that the cash keeps flowing in order to feed the machine.

Honestly, I kind of like the idea of how long my 1080 Ti can hold its own as top dog. Saves me a ton of money not having anything to upgrade to. With the goal being to have the best and most powerful and overclockable GPU, the longer that lasts without having to spend more money the better off I am. That is a win in my book. Lord knows I don't need anything stronger for playing games. Upgrading from 1080 Ti for playing games would be a total waste of money for 99% of the GeForce gaming population.

 

Expect the new Mobile top dog the coming 1180 (equal RTX 2070 but with more and faster vram) is equal GTX 1080 Ti performance or slightly better. What is 1080Ti's performance over todays 1080 ? 40% ? What a Joke. The main reason for this mess.... The Notebook manufactures desire aka must throw out more and more THIN and FLIMSY And Nvidia of course follow up this. All the talk about mobile and desktop graphics models will have equal performance is now washed down the drain. All we will have left is two versions of Max-Q

 

Yes, I understand that part. It is really said. Laptops are dead to me now, so I no longer have to be concerned about that, or any of the other stupidity involving notebooks. But, I still have lots of wonderful friends like you that will be affected by the unprecedented mediocrity the mobile computing sector is cursed with. It wasn't that long ago that this community was buzzing with excitement about high performance notebooks finally getting within striking distance of desktop performance and suddenly the goal changed and now the focus is on keeping the trash as thin and light as possible. Performance and quality is no longer job #1. Giving the juvenile yuppies the disposable lightweight trash they want to play games on is job #1.

 

Only hope now is 1180Sli setup (equal 2x RTX 2070). CLEVOOO LGA BOOKS of course! Sli will beat all RTX 2080 desktop cards. Only viable option for laptops Single graphics laptops is now declared dead!

 

In order to support the dumbing down of mobile computing, the "professionals" now compare piece of crap A against piece of crap B, instead of comparing them against the desktop monsters we used to use for the measuring stick. That makes the notebook manufacturers, and the people that worship them, legends in their own minds. Just ask any turdbook lover and they'll be happy to tell you it's "not fair" (boo hoo) to compare their soldered pile of trash to a real computer (desktop).

 

I wonder how much more than GTX1080 a laptop can handle in sli? There already is a loss at not having a high bandwidth sli bridge. I assume a standard bandwidth sli (flex) cable will always be needed in a lap top. But maybe a solution for that is in the works, . Also they hopefully will come with the displayport version it should have. Clevo is doing better than MSI on that one though. Clevo has v1.3, MSI is still using 1.2 on their sli rigs.

I could be wrong, but I think hardware speeds should always be rated under that of the connected I/O modules. Right now I don't think that is the case.

Edit* I should clarify, currently I think it is only the bridge that is underrated for the hardware. The displayport 1.3 is fast enough. It just lacks some features 1.4 has, but one of the features does technically make it faster; compression. the other one is native HDR

 

Clevo should really push for single maxed out RTX 2080Ti for their models like the P870. Let people have the option outside 1180 Sli. Let all the other Thin and flimsy out there get the 2030/2050/2060/2070 version. There is no need to force on people the weaker cards for Clevo P870 form factor chassis

 

Hopefully maybe possibly with Intel getting ready to release thier own line of dedicated gpus , and maybe AMD putting forth as much focus into thier GPU segment as they have thier CPU r&d attended to. We might get enough competition to make Nvidia do something in our favor.

 

As it’s now... AMD lying with broken back when it comes to graphics cards (both in desktop and notebooks). Can’t compete vs. Nvidia + they don’t sell as much graphics to miners anymore(crashed market). Need more competition or Nvidia can continue screw us. And as you can see Nvidia is on it’s way doing that. They are ready to sweep the floor with the new cards lineup.

 

Think more carefully, if it's a big core so it's not great for MXM that would mean what?

 

The general consensus, even among AMD CPU fanboys, seems to be that AMD does not care about GPUs that much and they think that gamers should be using their console-based products rather than PC. With things being as they seem, it is unlikely they will produce a product worth buying, especially in an MXM form factor. The last time they beat NVIDIA in the GPU space was when they released 7970 as an answer to 580, and that run in the sun lasted less than 6 months. They have been barely visible in the GPU world since then. The disappointment with the dramatically overhyped Vega release let what little bit of air that was left in their GPU tires leak out. I think they need to use their finite resources to stay focused on CPUs if they intend to survive at this point. One false move could be their undoing, and that would be bad for everyone that cares about computers.

 

Another form factor change and difficult (perhaps not even possible) challenges with upgrades. Factor in efforts to block upgrades to make more money on laptop sales and it is likely we are in for disappointment 2.0 in the mobile space.

The "good enough" and "it's just a laptop" mentality toward notebooks is also a limiting factor. We've already witnessed the fact that they have deceived the gamer-boys club and the mediocre masses into believing that nobody upgrades laptops. I heard and saw that posted so many times in the past couple of years by the BGA Kool-Aid drinkers that it made me want to puke. When talking heads spout nonsense incessantly, the lowest common denominators start believing it, accepting the nonsense as fact, repeating it themselves, and the most ludricrous circumstances imaginable that play out are a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

On this note I write my review of my new computer.

My desktop is about 6 years old, It is not correct to call it a desktop though, it is a SuperMicro server class, I just use it as a desktop. It has dual Xeons E5645 @2.4Ghz, total of 12 cores with 24 threads, Dual 1400W redundant hot-swappable power supplies, 24Gb of ECC ram, 8 PCI-E slots (4 available for GPUs), 6 hot-swappable case fans, a fan for each cpu, two fans on the GPU, and each power supply has a fan. That's 12 fans, lol, talk about loud. And that was my main complaint about my desktop, it sounds like a vacuum cleaner when the fans rev up. The CPUs are a bit older now too, but still seemed quite fast. And the GPU (GTX580) is anemic. It should have been loaded with 4 Quadro series GPUs, but my primary use was rendering, so CPUs was main focus. It also is quite expensive to run, the power use is very high.

I no longer do as much rendering as I used to, so I liked the idea of going for a desktop replacement laptop. My idea was I could use the laptop for gaming and other GPU intensive work, and use my desktop as a render slave if needed. Figuring 24 threads @2.4Ghz might be faster than or at least the same as [email protected]. Boy was I wrong there, see attached image. I never benchmarked or overclocked my desktop, I just worked it. So I started writing this without knowing even how it would score, then moved my CineBench install over to desktop to see how it would compare, and provide a score with my review. I was shocked by the difference in score.

Buying experience:
I talked to probably every re-seller from North America, and all were helpful, some more than others, lol. I wanted one that offered a cash discount and would not charge tax for California, so that narrowed down the field some for me. Eventually I was down to two possible choices, between HIDevolution and GentechPC. Big thank you to Ken @GenTechPC as well as Ted@HIDevolution and Donald@HIDevolution. In the end I went with Gentech, generally speaking it came down to price. I could get basically the same set up for about $500 less, and the only difference would have been the Bios.

First impression:
Compared to my desktop, it is very very quiet. The laptop at idle (25%) fan speeds, is quieter than my desktop is when powered off lol, (the fans in the power supplies will run until unplugged). At ramped (80%) fan speeds, it is about the same noise level as my desktop powered off. At max (100%) fan speeds, it is at least 4 times quieter than my desktop at idle speeds... So needless to say, for me this is a huge quality of life improvement. I never realized how much stress working next to a server class PC caused until it was gone. If you want to recreate this, just turn on your vacuum cleaner and leave it next to you running while you work, lol. Set up was very easy, and getting started didn't take much time. Windows installed in minutes rather than the hours I am used to, and on first boot up it was obvious this is a very fast machine. I like the keyboard lighting, but from day 1 I have not liked the bright white led's on the power button and other indicators at base of screen. Proximity to screen causes them to burn into my vision. I wish I could turn them off or at least change to another less bright color. Might end up covering with tape!

Bios:
The Bios that comes stock is not bad, it is unlocked, and I can do most of what I need. Did I want a @Prema Bios? Of course, but it was hard to put a value on it, not knowing much about it. But I did have no doubt it was the best bios available for my laptop, it was just hard to know if it was worth $500 to me. This was before some of the comments on here comparing the features, and a video I saw of the Prema Bios, I believe Phoenix posted somewhere. And now I can say I definitely want it, lol, and would be honored if ever I am able to use it. The stock bios could be improved for sure, but does get you overclocking.

Cooling:
I decided to not go with liquid metal TIM. Mainly because I like to work on my own machines, and I haven't used liquid metal before. I don't want the first time I run into it to be on a disassembly where you're kinda working blind. I do not regret the choice to use Kryonaut one bit, it works amazingly well on the GPUs, and also seems to do a good job for CPU. I also did not decide to have a de-lid done. GentechPC will do a de-lid for you, but CPU warranty will be lost. HIDevolution will allow you to keep warranty, but it is only through them. Intel does not warranty de-lidded processors and not just for any damage due to de-lidding, but for any reason at all. But they of course can be replaced by the seller if they choose, but they put themselves on the line for any possible RMA of CPU. According to Donald though, I think he said they have had zero CPUs they have needed to replace. But I still don't like the idea of leaving my warranty in the hands of the seller, I doubt HID is going anywhere, but you're always better off with an actual manufacture's warranty. I also do not (yet) regret not having a de-lid done. I have not been having any heat issues with the CPU, so I am unsure how much it would do. I bet I would run cooler, but I haven't had any thermal throttling yet, so I haven't felt the need yet for the headroom (no pun intended) the de-lidding would give.

The GPUs run rock solid cooling wise. I am nearly always in the 40s-50s, sometimes I will be in 60s and rarely in the 70s. If I run Kombustor well past the benchmark period, it will eventually heat them to 90 where they will throttle. Since Kombustor is a burn in program though this makes sense. I am VERY happy with how the Dual GPU Vapor chamber heatsink performs. From what I saw when searching, HID is the only re-seller who uses the "vapor chamber" description. And really it is more of a hybrid vapor chamber/heat pipe set up. A full vapor chamber set up would not use heat pipes, but requires a straight path from cooling to heatsink coverage, which is difficult to do in most cases, and probably impossible in a laptop. But regardless, it works awesome! I had read here about heat issues from GPUs, but I have had no issues whatsoever. I also opted for the Fujipoly Extreme thermal pads upgrade. All in all my GPUs run very cool.

This is where I have to take my hat off to Donald @hidevolution. Since they were the only re-seller I saw using the vapor chamber description, I thought it was proprietary to only their builds. I almost made the decision to purchase a non sli-model from them with dual vapor chamber setup because of this. When talking to Donald I asked him if their cooling setup was somehow different from anyone else's, (this was before he posted the same info here in reply to someone referring to vapor chamber as a mod). He let me know that anyone ordering the SLI setup from any re-seller; would also get the dual vapor chamber setup. I have a huge amount of respect for him and his honesty! It allowed me to get the full sli setup I wanted, because to order from HID, I probably would have had to go with single GPU to make up the price difference. I feel bad that I did not end up making the purchase from them, and I hope someone sees my comments attesting to their honesty and goes with them. But I also have to say that Ken at Gentech also is very honest and helpful, and I am very happy with my purchase from them, so I also hope my comments bring them customers as well. I think that this forum has a tendency to point everyone to HID, and they are a solid choice, but I can say I am very happy with my purchase from GentechPC, and believe they are a viable alternative. So throw some love their way.

CPU:
The i7 8086k performs very well, but it begs to be overclocked. I feel quite fortunate at getting one that easily will overclock to 5.1, I think with some tweaking I can do 5.3, possibly even 5.4? Because heat is not what causes the stability issues at 5.2. I tested out stock and overclocked setups and provided a chart below with those results. Initially I just adjusted multipliers and voltage offset, and recorded the results. Much better results can be had with raised power/current limits, and I am sure as I learn more (or get a better bios ) I will get even better results.

GPUs:
The dual GTX1080s are sublime. Gaming dream come true! They run rock solid cooling wise, and even when not so cool... What I mean by that is, Kombustor will eventually heat them up, and even throttle them, BUT before throttling they will do 300fps and each card pulls about 200W, then when it throttles it only drops to about 293fps with about 90W draw on each GPU. So not surprisingly, Kombustor completely over utilizes the GPU power. All the games i have run so far, are no where close to using all these cards have to offer.

SLI:
If I purchased the SLI option purely for gaming I may have been a bit disappointed. It does work great on some games, but of course not on all. And disappointingly not even on the game (The Crew2) that Nvidia gave me for the purchases . Whats up with that? Although this game also maxes out at 60fps, which I can do full time with no loss on a single card. But I do use SLI for multitasking, so I am not at all disappointed. I also plan on using SLI for a multi monitor setup at some point.

Conclusion:
I went into this expecting to have a laptop for gaming and work, while still needing to use my render server for cpu intensive work. My purchase of a laptop was primarily to reduce operating cost and noise. I was very happy to learn it also would outperform my dual CPU setup, albeit 6 years old. My server/desktop is the exact same as what was used for about 3 years by many online render farm rental services, so it is no slouch. But still probably an unfair comparison... BUT HEY, at least it is the desktop crying this time! lol.

Alternatives:
Basically my desktop now is just a really nice chassis!, lol. But I could have done CPUs and up to 4 GPUs upgrade on my current motherboard. The slot I have I think has an 8 core available for it. Although probably at under 3.0Ghz. But it would be 32 threads compared to my 24. And I might have even been able to do it for less than my laptop cost, if I could find the 5 year old chips. But it still may not have been as fast as my laptop. I could also have upgraded the motherboard and gotten more current chips, but that surely would cost significantly more than my laptop, but would definitely be faster. And both these options would have still left me with a very loud computer that was now sucking down even more energy with the upgraded components. A soundproof enclosure for the upgraded desktop would be a good alternative, but for now I am very happy with the laptop!

Additional notes:
my laptop came with a couple of free upgrades! I got dual Killer E2500 cards instead of E2400. When I asked Sager rep why they are not advertised with E2500s he said it is because Clevo sent them some with the newer Ethernet cards, but since not all their back stock has the new cards; they still advertise them with E2400s. There is not a huge difference between these cards but it was nice to get. I also got a free upgrade to the Intel AC 9260 even though I ordered the Killer AC 1550. These are very close to the same card, but I wanted the Killer because I wanted the Killer software to recognize it. GentechPC did offer to have the correct card sent to me. But I still haven't decided if I will take them up on it. The Intel one works fine, and I would hate to replace it with one that doesn't just so I can see it in the software. And if I need to later I can just buy the Killer one for about 30$ anyway.

Testing chart and notes:



And how it compares to my desktop:
Note: scores 1-16 are from my laptop.

I think that speaks for itself. Ding Ding Ding! we have a TKO! The desktop couldn't get off the ropes!
But I should retire now before a younger desktop comes around.

 

Nice review, bro. You did yours the way real enthusiasts do it, by comparing it against a desktop. +5 rep for not comparing it against some broken BGA turdbook that is unworthy of honorable mention.

FYI about Intel warranty. There is no warranty on an OEM/tray CPU whether you delid or not. Intel only provides a warranty on boxed retail CPUs. I did not know that until recently. If you check the numbers on the edge of the PCB on the Intel web site it will tell you when the retail CPU warranty expires, or that you have an OEM CPU that is not covered by Intel. The warranty (if any) is provided by the system builder or reseller.

 

Thank you

And I did not know that on the OEM trays, ty for the info. Its the same reason I did not get the certificate for my limited edition chip...

 

Well let's hope Intel's efforts pay off. As they are technically the largest GPU manufacturer in the world as thier chips have embedded Gpus lol. And I agree with the vega failure . I learned long ago to stop trying to polish an AMD turd after the 7970s, 7990's both Malta and Base versions. But then again the BurnYourHouseDownEdition BYHD 590 lol kinda left a a funk with me too. Then learned that it was easier to spend the money and not have try to make X product as fast as Y product. Lol both Amd Vs Intel and Nvidia vs AMD.

 

Hopefully we will have something better as far as cooling goes.or at least fan controls. I know we have members working on utilities to help remedy the Fan control shennanigans we have now. But we still need something better. The testing of me making the base thicker to allow for more cooling options is going pretty good btw. I've made a shroud to hit the second CPU fin stack along with the socket and first fin stack while using the one fan supplied to us. So that the entire cpu package is being cooled. That second cpu fan header must have been put there to troll us or in my case make you spend 400+ on a new motherboard for dicking around with it.lol

 

Fan control software will only go as far, it helps you tune your laptop to your needs and preferences, that's it. Maybe on some units that before never reached max fans and with this type of software they actually reach 100% fan, but that's it.
Also Manufacturer support might be limited... i'm doing something in the area, playing by the rules, avoiding EC hacks to do it, using the already included WMI exposed methods... but guess what... THEY SUCK!!! BIG TIME!!! They use ACPI to talk to motherboard and it's badly implemented... causing latency... just like CC does... so either CLEVO supports my queries or ill have to hack this... To my defense NVIDIA drivers are actually worse, they LAG as crazy... my systems spike at 1000ms from the NVIDIA drivers... Piece of crap NVIDIA hardware/software, total piece of crap...

But i could keep on complaining...

8th gen mobile CPUs need new chassis and new cooling systems.
8th gen desktop CPUs are barelly manageable with current chassis/cooling.

We need BIG improvements in CPU Cooling, maybe something in the line of the vapor chambers or even further... otherwise PLEASE, just stop adding cores and more frequency, it's pointless as it is now... A LOT of laptops actually perform worst with 8th gen then with 7th gen... this is a scam... ok let me re-phrase this, 90% of laptops in the market with 8th gen mobile CPUs are performing worst in a LOT of tasks then the previous gen.... this is a scam.

I'm worried... this crazy unplanned release cycles, where manufactures use a 7th Gen chassis / cooling system, that was already in it's cooling limits (or even under-performing) and now they sell the same chassis but with higher CPU Frequency and 2 more cores... What the HELL?

I never seen a market so flooded with crippled laptops as today...

The trend is now: "It's ok to thermal throttle, it's by design because they can handle it and they are sooooo powerful", same goes for both CPU and GPU, manufacturers are going in this direction because Intel and NVIDIA tells them to, but then you bench it... and it under-performs previous gen... i know a lot of re-sellers who have already pulled out models due to high return rate.

 

I'm more talking about the TDP implications.

 

Hello there,
I'm kind of out of topic, but my prema P370sm is stuck on the boot splash screen, since I tried to activate uefi on the premabios (don't ask me why I did this it was stupid)
the modded bios worked perfectly for years up until this point, but when I turned on uefi it just messed up something and now I can't pass the splash screen no matter what I tried, (remove the gpu, cpu, the battery, the ram, the cmos, the keyboard) and for me my only hope now is to do the quick flash using the fn+b method. Unless you know another way of course
Could you provid me with the premabios for that and a quick instruction on how to proceed with the fn+b technic? I loved my bios mod so much I supported you for over a year on techInferno, but now I have no way to get the bios back anymore, because the library is gone. I would really appreciate your help.
Have a great one!

 

Amen to that! That is exactly why I gave up on the idea of having a "high performance" laptop a year ago. The half-assed garbage from literally EVERY manufacturer on the planet is unacceptable. It takes far too much time and effort to clean up their messes, and some of the messes are screwed up beyond repair. It is totally ludicrous. Going back to desktops was the only intelligent option left for an enthusiast. Going forward, mobility for me has a maximum price tag of $500 with a sub-$300 target price so I can toss it into a dumpster and grab a replacement from Walmart or Amazon when it goes tits up. And, the way I will use mobility (web and email, simple office applications, etc) I can use Android or Linux to do anything that needs to be done. No need for spending money on the Redmond Retards' nasty bloatware Windoze OS X for the most basic computing tasks known to mankind.

Other than having miserably small screens and hideous touch input (both of which make me want to puke) my LG V30 and my $49 rooted Kindle Fire tablet will do almost all of the mobility stuff I need done.

 

I am wondering how to take this and what do know / do before buying my next gen 1180 and intel 9k laptop within a few months. Is heating so bad with clevo 9877 too ? People who own it please advise in the light of this above comment.

 

I am wondering how to take this and what do know / do before buying my next gen 1180 and intel 9k laptop within a few months. Is heating so bad with clevo 9877 too ? People who own it please advise in the light of this above comment.

 

I don't know how cool next gen Nvidia graphics is able to run but Clevo 980 card was a 200w and 1080 190w. If coming 1180 is able to run nice and cool there shouldn't be a problem put it as 200w like for the 980.

 

A little confused. If you are saying that cooling works fine for gpu + cpu in clevos then what does the previous comment by John@obsidian-pc mean ? Why would he say that laptops for the past year are broken records and you need to go back to desktops for decent performance.?

 

I talk about coming Nvidia graphics.

He talk for the most about more and more cores and higher clocks on Intel chips. Equal more heat.

There haven't been a big change from Nvidia. Aka there haven't been released new cards from them the last couple of years. If the new cards from Nvidia don't run hotter it will be equal as today.

But all in all... Cooling should really be improved. But the notebook manufacturers go the opposite route... They create thinner and thinner notebook chassis. And the cooling follow the norm. You can't make better and better cooling while the chassis being slimmer and slimmer more like the Applebooks...

Edit. Some reading material for you. Here as well How Dell cripple performance explained by...

 

I said BGA 8th gen is 99% trash ... Only some few actually are worth it.
I'm yet to find a single laptop in planet Earth that is handling a mobile 8th gen in a decent way.

P870 / P775 / P751 have always been good, being the P870 the best.

But now even the best are struggling, the P775 and P751 are already struggling with 8th gen. They already did with 7th.

A desktop CPU is still the closet you get to a decent system, delid and all, might cut it BUT let's be honest... There is no way a P775 / P751 performs good at stock clocks and voltage ... You will need to clock it down, undervolt, etc for a lot of tasks if you get the 8700K and 1080. Still better then any BGA by a long mile.

It's like we live a dark age of laptops, and other brands are worse. Even the new MacBook, it's instant throttle on most operations, the solution? Updating the software to limit the performance.

Resellers need to start returning units, end clients need to start returning the units, manufacturers need to return the CPUs...

What Intel did was almost criminal. Do they even talk to manufacturers? Its like "hey new CPU, impossible to cooldown with your current hardware, here take it, release it in some months"... Even Giants like Apple must been caught off guard... Like " oh crap our pimping billion dollars design chassis is not compatible with new gen.... What now?"

Well welcome to a new world!
Besides the P7s and P8 a laptop now works like this:

Open app - throttle even during opening
Start render or heavy task - starts with 6 cores at 3Ghz+ and in seconds goes down to as much as 2.5 depending on model.
Get that sexy ALU chassis absorbing those 90+C and getting ultra hot, call it normal...

For gaming most users would benefit from less cores more speed... You know... Like 7th gen...

Sent from my MI Note 2 using Tapatalk

 

IMO you should probably take that as comments from someone who is working hard to make a specific issue (fan control) better, (and it sounds like he is running into some inherent limitations). So naturally is frustrated, but he makes some good points (some of them I wonder if are directed more at other laptop makers? EDIT* did not see his post before posting mine, he is indeed, MOSTLY talking about other laptop makers). I don't totally agree with 8th gen being barely manageable though, my system is doing fine. And the GPUs run very cool, but maybe I hit the lottery there. Clevo definitely will need to "progress" to progress, (if that makes sense), they are using the same chassis as they did for the previous gen. But who knows what they will do next? No matter what anyone tells you, all we can do is wait and see (regarding next gen). And even waiting to see is no guarantee, lol. Maybe they stop here? Maybe this is the end of where desktop equivalents will work for a while? I hope not. But Clevo is from what I know the only laptop company dedicated to this vertical. If they want to keep riding it; they'll have to adapt, one way or another. Hopefully in the same desktop "equivalent" manner. Mine is working great! No thermal issues, lag issues, nor anomalous spikes.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gs65-repaste-question.820678/page-4#post-10783207

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...5-owners-lounge.815492/page-192#post-10783118

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...5-owners-lounge.815492/page-192#post-10783156

Have been like this long time. Nothing new.

Intel have recommended PL1 100w and 125w for PL2 for the unlocked i9-8950Hk. But none of the notebook manufactures have followed the recommandations from Intel. NONE! And WHY continue push out new models with even more crippled cooling if they already have seen how their thickest models who have better cooling perform?

Even some Notebook OEM design Desktop Motherboards.... They knew long time ago how hot Coffee lake would run in notebooks. No excuses for throwing out overheating mess.

And Why should the OEM's put higher Power limits on it's own?


And WHY will some OEM’s use exactly same wimpy cooling for an unlocked i9-8950Hk as they use for the fully locked down 6 cores Coffee lake i7-8700H ? You can't put this on Intel.

The BIG race after creating the lightest and thinnest possible notebook models have gone all too far.

Thinner and Lighter Laptops Have Screwed Us All-motherboard.vice.com

 

It's like laptops are in some weird anorexia competition with the mouse pad. And they may end up just as useless as one!

mouse pad is like; whaa?

 

I have no affinity to thin laptops and I find it stupid. I am happy having a behemoth with me as long as it is not a full desktop chassis as carrying it around would be impossible in a laptop bag. A laptop however, even if 8 inches thick is fine with me if it has proper cooling.

Thanks!

How does the 8xx differ from 7xx in terms of cooling ? Is it because it is bigger+thicker or are there other factors too ?

Hmm did you mean that the P775 and P751 are struggling but the P870 can handle the 8th gen cpu on stock clocks and voltage? I am additionally guessing that P870m can handle OCing well too. Is that also true? Just wanted to clarify that ? In the forums we see many people posting details of OCing the clevos so I thought that, that wouldn't happen if the heat and other issues were causing problems esp at stock clocks. If that were so, no one would overclock anything right ?

 

You can overclock them all, BUT it greatly depends on the task. You cant OC and keep stock voltages and expect to be able to render or use the CPU at 100% for a long period of time... So it really depends on the task.
Historically P870 always had the best coolers of the lot.
Back when the P775 had a shared cooler, if you really wanted CPU power above everything else you could simply get one with 1060 and go beserk on clocks.

A P775 with a 7700K could handle the CPU at 100%, fixed at 4.6Ghz at around 80C-85C, that was very good in my book! That was with -100mv undervolt

BUT if you add a simple GTX 1060 at 100% load... well it goes up to 96C... so you need to backup down the CPU to around 4.4Ghz...

Now what if its a GTX 1080?? Forget about Turbo clocks if you want max temperature to max at 90...

Ok... now lets go to 8th Gen CPU......... Ouch... its worse...

But even if you compare it to everything else its still the most performance you can take out of a laptop... compared to everything out there in the mobile CPU department.

Current laptops with mobile 8th gen CPU will throttle down to around 3Ghz and you will probably have to throttle it down manually even more if you want bellow 90 temps and be able to put heavy loads on CPU + GPU.

 

You can get hold on very good binned chips. Sell what you got (if it was in the build) if you ain’t happy with what you got. It’s called you have “more choices”.

You are screwed or better say “doomed” with soldered on.

 

Cooling is a physical limitation of size after all and TDPs shot up last gen.

 

For the highest performing Clevo Nvidia cards... Last gen Pascal 190w. The previous gen before that... Maxwell 980 was 200w.

 

Come on man, last gen currently is the 9xx series. The 980 was the start of the anomoly. The 980m and such were much closer to 100w parts at stock.

Now we want 200w GPUs in the same chassis along with 50-100% more CPU cores.

TDPs shot up.

 

Sorry my English (last or call it current gen for me is 1080 and 190w). 980m models is more like Max-Q (up to 120w) nowadays.