*** Official Sager NP9877 / Clevo P870TM-G Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 4 ***

The biggest concern is the temps

 

Just temps across the board especially if you expect to hit the same speeds.

 

Can someone link me to temp results for 9900 k wrt of frequencies ?

 

Not much public testing yet, it's a niche that will be wanting to upgrade to these, the 8700k/8086k provide gaming grunt at the moment.

 

So it'll be a while before we get a bios for them from prema i take it? also any idea where i can buy a replacement keyboard, The TAB key's scissor switch has bit the dust, And Metabox take 50000 years to do anything so if its sub 300 bucks i'll replace it myself.

 

I got a replacement from Hidevolution

 

Prema has the code ready so contact your reseller regarding that.

 

There fairly easy to replace. I bought a bag of spares to renew a few of my keys. I also placed more springs under the space key I didn't like the slow rebounce it had.

 

Where did you get your spare keys from?

 

I ordered them online I just made sure they were clevo compatible. I didn't need the keys I only used the sissiors and rubber springs.

I got 5 keys and springs and sissiors for €5.

 

Can anyone advise me on what company to use to get a 2tb regular 2.5inch internal hard drive for clevo machine. Where do I get it from ? Also please tell me how to choose the 16gb ram modules and where to get those from during the BLACK FRIDAY sales. I am hoping to have a regular 2 tb 2.5 inch hdd and get intel optane 40gb and use it as a cache disk. I was looking at Linus's tips here

 

You can put a 2tb drive in the machines easily yourself.

 

I know that. I was asking for what online places to look for deals during BFriday other than Amazon or Best buy. Secondly I was asking where to get Ram modules from and what should I look at before buying them? I am likely to get one 16gb module from a reseller so am trying to buy some modules for the clevo chassis but should I match only Frequency or some other things too?

I have some clue of good online for 2tb drives but no clue for Ram modules where I could get some rebates during BF. Any advice on all the above questions ?

 

Speed and CAS latency need to match the module you get.

 

Happy merry Thanksgiving to everyone here !! May your turkey be moist, and you avoid diabetes. Lol

 

Newegg.com

 

I second that about Ted. He contacted me directly right outta the blue about my order attempts.

 

I live in a closet, GF and 2 kids....

Current Setup by Wild Turkey posted Nov 22, 2018 at 2:36 PM

 

Looks like your basement radiator could do with a dusting

 

I am waiting on news to surface of 9900k in this machine so as to get ready to buy one! In the meantime I had a question about ssd caching in the machine. My situation will be something like this : In my new system (I am yet to get) I plan to have a 1 tb nvme samsung 970 evo for regular purposes and I have a mechanical 2 tb hdd. I also have a spare 120gb ssd lying around. I was hoping to use the ssd as a caching drive for the hdd only. I need the steps of how to achieve this. Can anyone point me to reading/steps for this ?

In my current system (lenovo y510p) there is Expresscache and that doesn't require much setup other than just installing the software and cleaning the cache drive from within windows 8.1. But not sure how one would do this on a clevo esp for the use case I mentioned above ie only for 1 hdd.

 

is there a better heatsink for p870tm(rather than default stock one) for 9900K OC+gtx1080si OC on this device?
sth better than for example this water-cooling custom-made heatsink for p775tm:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?&id=563282040214
in chinese store,i could find these for those who are interested(heatsink for p870tm):
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?&id=556782157877
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?&id=571338400684
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?&id=577675105045
if anyone interested in buying from taobao,use agents like yoybuy,cssbuy,superbuy,chrisvicmall ,....

 

There's a P870 version similar to that water cooled heatsink floating around on taobao. Haven't seen many reports in the wild though but in the screenshots in the ads it seems to work OK. I'd be wary of the lack of sealing (orings, gaskets etc) both between the two pieces of each heatsink and each part of the 3 sections of the P870 version, and there is a story floating around of someone's P775 being ruined by leaks from one of these

The other things you linked to are the stock P870DM3 heatsinks which on the CPU side being made for the sky/kabylake quads are nowhere near good enough to cool 9900k at stock, and one of the later P870 vapour chamber heatsinks that lacks that (rather pointless) bridge section that connects it to the CPU radiator.

 

A well adjusted air heatsink will be a lot less faff than water.

As for the SSD caching you could see if intel's smart response tech would install, otherwise there are third party options like the people AMD have gone with.

 

If I could get Google to translate enough , I would my self find the water block for the TM1 and order the the hell out of it lol. But I clicked the links and was like noppppe--not today Google Translate. Lol

 

After reading this ENTIRE Forum almost twice, just to absorb the HUGE amount of info, I am a tad hesitant to even touch a Clevo...

 

Why?

 

I wouldn't touch a Clevo laptop with a 10 foot pool even though they have the best hardware/specifications in a laptop:

Clevo makes the worst laptop keyboard EVER!

Clevo Drivers Download painfully slow!

 

I'm loving my EVOC P870TM1

 

There is tweaking and there is hassle. I dont want hassle from an over 4k investment.

Keyboard I can just use my BlackWidow X(unless Razer Synapse is incompatible). Or buy a corsair KB and Mouse. The whole CCC controls and screws up stuff yet it is needed to use RGB stuff etc. Have to install then disable, then install something else to reenable.

I'm not pulling the trigger anytime soon on it. Not to say I won't at all, just need to absorb all the data.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

What is the shortage from intel?

 

If those two are the *best* reasons why not to touch a clevo ie there are NO reasons such as faulty or flimsy motherboards and crappy components which fail often then I would touch nothing ELSE BUT a clevo (if I had the money ie )

 

Anytime soon is also my gameplan. May I pm you and talk to you a bit if you don't mind ?

 

wah thats pretty late to respond to that

for overclockers and best performance theres really only clevo as a choice given that the major parts wont be soldered.

driver download side of things was never an issue for me but then again my machine was TM version, i didnt have the prior ones like DM, DMG, DM3, KM etc. my biggest issue with clevo is they only sell barebones and supports are all to resellers, so if the reseller you buy from doesnt help u, u are out of luck.

in all fairness if you own enough laptops across many brand you'll run into issue and this is applicable to all OEMs, so what comes down to is if you are able to put up with the support and what you value.

iirc ultra male likes his keyboard full size, needs good support, needs good amount of storage. where for me as an example, i use external keyboard so long as laptop keys are working as backup its all good. I value CPU/storage a lot more than GPUs so cpu cooling is my go to, same with socket machine.

also, MSI isn't as cheap as clevo and are more established, so their cooling is almost always superior in similar size chassis. looking at his signature, his machine isn't exactly weak compare to clevo, 4.8ghz is excellent clock for 24/7.

 

If I want to get my OC/Poweruser game on, I'll stick to my dual loop watercooler behemoth desktop.

So take away that and what does a clevo offer over any other brand? AGAIN, benchmarks and real world are night and day. So, stability, ease of use, less hassle, can hold 4.5 without giving me radiant burns is what I NEED.

I'm going to play Anthem, WoT/WoW, Cyberpunk(when its released) and maybe The Division 2. Majority of BGA will run that and yes Clevo will too. The argument is "BGA sucks cause its soldered" well LGA sucks unless its watercooled....

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

A) BGA was designed as throw away trash. When a soldered component goes out ( and that is starting to include memory modules, GPUs, 2280 SSDs), you have to throw the baby out with the bath water.

B) Proper laptops with component designs have a far better upgradable path than BGA. Not quite at desktop levels, but you should be able to get some extended life.

Perhaps @Papusan can enlighten us with the history of his 'Old Lady'.

C) Overclocking a laptop is a real thing, and my guess is the results may be shocking. But unfortunately the component based laptop solutions are becoming more scarce, and crippled by ODMs for reasons I could guess, but not verify.

In any case @Papusan and @Johnksss can provide more details.

D) I agree with you that if you're planning on a usually light load, why bother with a power solution, and stick to puny BGAs. Why purchase a pick-up truck to haul the wife, grandma, and 8 kids? A large conversion van would be better suited, would it not?

But for those professionals who need to render images, run 4 or 5 simultaneous virtual machines with full databases and compilers, or those wanting to push the machines to their limits, nothing else will suffice.

 

I agree with all points. Clevo is like an Evo to "tuners". Its nice to have, gets the girl(s)...

 

exactly!

 

VC air cooling is much more efficient in small size compare to water cooling solution. imho water is only worth it if you go for at least 360 size, or a custom loop for a big surface area. and the statement "LGA sucks unless its watercooled" really makes no sense because it is already a higher grade silicon so LGA actually needs less cooling for a BGA counter part at similar clocks.

 

Water and movable devices don't tend to mix too well.

 

True but, my point was missed.

To me any CPU or GCARD sucks when not on Water.

 

Whatttttt? I play games maxed out at 1080p. That's far from suck to me

Enviado desde mi G8441 mediante Tapatalk

 

Water does not make a huge difference to the 2080, and the 8086k would go from what 5ghz to 5.3Ghz? Fractional gains really.

 

A Potato can run 1080p and AGAIN my point is missed. I ran 3 monitors @ 3440x1440, 2 are stacked so my main "viewing" area is 3440x2880. Add the 3rd to the left makes it a whole 4880x2880. Now in Games only the pri monitor is accelerated but all the monitors are still being drawn and have stuff on them.

My 2x1080ti's would BAKE on air.

Argument 1 - BGA is inferior to LGA due to overclocking ability:
Maybe so but it's a "laptop" hence why throwing "benchmark" results don't mean squat to me.
Argument 2 - Clevo is better cause you can "upgrade":
OK, so in 2 years I spend 3 grand to "upgrade it" or
In 2 years ill buy a new even better one and give whatever I decide to buy now to my teenager.
Argument 3 - MSI has a better keyboard:
Yes it does but I am typing one one just as good right now.

epeen means squat to me, I don't care about setting records, I don't care about synthetics. I want something that will run on day one, be dependable and AGAIN, not need to take a week to "fine tune".

ALL points are valid but for someone that really doesn't care about setting records and just wants a quality experience BOTH LGA and BGA are fine.

so enough off topic for me, I do like the Clevo still, I am still researching and reading/re-reading everything. There is just so little on these types of systems.

 

1) speed.
2) performance.
3) cooling (if you get the high end version with the vapor chamber)
4) consistency.
5) overclocking.

BGA cpu's have a -1 speed bin penalty (-100mhz) over LGA cpu's of the same sku and -2 bin penality for 6 core cpu's (e.g. 7820HK vs 7700K, 8700K vs "i9" 8950HK). This has been pretty conclusively tested by me, Vistar shook, Papusan and many others. Why is completely unknown. It could be mainboard related, it could be a cache penalty latency hit on the L2 or L3 caches, I really don't know. I'll do a test later to test cache. So you aren't getting the full performance of the LGA equivalent, even though they are all cut from the same original silicon.

2) BGA CPU's are rejects of LGA bins that couldn't meet silicon purity quality for LGA bins, for 8700K, 8700 non K and 8600K, and 7700K and 7600K. I am not sure if the 7820HK is worse or better binned than the 7700 non K however. Anyway that means BGA cpu bins will be higher VID, require higher voltage, and will overclock worse than LGA.
The very best BGA HK cpu's should overclock as good as the worst LGA 7700K and 8700K CPU's.

3) Even worse cancer firmware limitations than LGA systems. BGA systems are riddled with absurd power limit or power draw restrictions that would drive anyone who wants to overclock completely mad.

To be fair, MSI has the least restrictive cancer in their firmware, even though the cancer is just as bad, at least it is still possible to unlock the Bios to get to advanced bios menus, to remove the excessive TDP throttling via IMON slope and IMON OFFSET tweaks, and to hack the embedded controller EC RAM, to avoid some of the EC limitations, like total system power draw, absurd NOS (Battery boost) bullcrap, and premature system CPU throttling when the battery is physically disconnected. I found these tweaks myself (IMON SLOPE thanks to @Vistar Shook but this is still something no normal user should have to deal with, ever. But at least with MSI, you can still 'hack' your laptop and use the 4 key combo or FPTW64, AMIBCP 5.02 and "RU" to disable bios lock, dump your APTIO Bios capsule and unlock bios menus, and use RW Everything to access the EC RAM and do my EC "hacks" (very useful for people with GTX 1070 systems that have a GTX 1080 SKU on the same motherboard).

If you buy a Clevo P870 TM1 from HIDevolution, you will get a properly designed, and fully QA tested system and a system without firmware cancer limitations, thanks to the Prema Bios. The Prema Bios can only be installed by Prema partner shops like HIDevolution or Xotic PC.

If you want full desktop power in a laptop, the Clevo is unfortunately the only game in town. Even with all its flaws, it's still better with the Prema Bios (and P870 TM1 model with the vapor chamber heatsink upgrade!!) than every other disposable laptop out there

MSI F7 / MSI WT75?

Still has the same bugs that affect the 16L13--BIOS power limit overrides are ignored because the Embedded Controller doesn't recognize the CPU's power ID stored in Embeded Controller (EC RAM) Register E3 (byproduct of BGA code being used in LGA whitebooks).

 

Now see, you provided sound information not based upon "overclocking status" usage.

 

Some of the after market 1080ti cards do something like 60C when overclocked, I don't think that counts as baking lol.

 

$2 or $3 grand?? I'm guessing this statement was pulled out of thin air, as it is very, very incorrect.

Let's set the record straight... Now, upgrades are not available on all Clevo models, so what Clevo one buys is very important. But on this recent CPU upgrade for the P870TM, most folks were just out the price of the i7-8700k, i7-8086k, i7-9700k, or i9-9900k. What is that? $400 or $500?

Perhaps @Papusan can post some links to the CPU upgrades he's made on his old system along with the $$$ spent on said upgrade as well as some new bench scores.

 

2xNext Gen GPu's and 1 x CPU= 2-3 grand. This is all dependent on even being able to put the nex gen GPU in there.

 

In comparison, What's the price of a new rig with that setup? $3K to $5K?

But with the move away from MxM in the laptop Eco-system, your point of GPU is valid.

 

Exactly, so if If I am going to have to buy it all again just to "upgrade", why go for modularity.

The 2080ti is not "much" better than my 1080ti, as the 2080 is to the 1080 in desktops, so suffice to say it will be on par or worse in the laptop scene as we get the "under performing leftovers"...

I am still leaning towards the P870TM1 due to it's 2560x1440 capabilities. A single 1080 can handle that at respectable frames.