*** Official Sager NP9877 / Clevo P870TM-G Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 4 ***

Here.

 

I'm still curious on how the 4th fan is attached though.

 

So... I'm just amazed by this new laptop...I'm having fun obliterating the benchmarking programs that used to always choke out my old laptop... I guess I can start testing out some Steam games..
~A~

 

So it sounds like a single gtx 1080 won't need a 780w power adapter, right? Only if you have the sli setup?

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

 

I got the option of 2x 230w or 2x330w, I have no idea why.
And yeah the single gpu ones come with one power brick.

 

clevo has already done this before, i think on the D900F, tagging @Papusan
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/d900f-better-cooling-missing-fan.447368/
someone for the life of me can't recall his name but i've seen his mod on the 4th fan, he did an excellent job.

in the end, clevo never added 4th fan, however machines followed after 900F was x7200 & p570wm did come with the extra fan. we might have to wait for 8 cores to really see that 4th fan and some chassis change, all up to clevo now.

maybe @Eurocom Support can look into it and come up with a 4th fan upgrade package that will fit and work with connector, EC and it's fan control software. of course that would mean have to rip out a plastic piece from the chassis.

 

On older machines the piece is metal by the way as a caution.

 

Have posted a possible solution in one of the threads. The chassis backside the small cpu grills is easy to fix. Use thin fan on top of bracket(you have several choices of fans on the web). See if the 4th fan header contain power or connect power from other sources.

And yeah, coming 8 core i9 need absolutely the 4th fan.

All this <new> Cpu cooling refresh should have been done with the first P870DM1 models. There is absolutely no excuses for not already design this! If not, Clevo had the chance with the previous Dm2 and Km1 models as well.

 

It was not needed for most people on the quad cores. I run 4.7Ghz all day long with the shared heatsink.

 

You forget people who running their 4 cores processors without delidding and Liquid metal(I expect you have fixed this as some of us others). As I posted in previous post...No excuses for this. TDP is TDP. Intel increased 4W for newest chips and Clevo had to revamp the Cpu cooling. Don’t defend engineers for bad choices.

 

Those who have not done those steps and run stock it gets the job done, we would all love bigger heatsinks but every decision has a cost associated and I can see the reasoning is all.

I have asked about having an official 4th fan as an upgrade option as that would be nice for the tweakers.

 

It should be standard at no extra cost. The bad habit of ODMs building expensive machines that are adequate for the lowest common denominators instead of doing the right thing needs to stop. All of them half-ass things and eek by on almost good enough for average gamer kids and there is no legitimate excuse for it. That is not an example of awesomeness. While I believe the principle of wanting things done right means doing it yourself always applies to some extent, having an endless supply of screwed up messes that need to be corrected is becoming too damned tedious, expensive and wasting time and energy that could have been spent on something better. And, all we are talking about right now is a $5 fan. Can hardly wait to see what kind of mess the firmware turns out to be if they remain true to form.

 

Well it can never be standard at the current cost, unless you want them to start loosing money on units they sell?

 

So, raise the price $20 to account for mark-up on the fans purchased at discount in bulk. Paying a tiny bit extra is better than having to figure it out on your own after purchase. Cost is never a good excuse for engineering mistakes or inadequate performance, but it is an overused one. It's not like people buying flagship products are going to opt out and settle for a BGA piece of trash over a few measly greenbacks.

 

Thanks for pushing for missing 4th fan before the 8 cores i9 come.
We who thinkers can manage a fan tweak but this is not for all others.

And I’m sure Clevo could demand $8-10 usd more for more. Even $15-20 more. RMA cost would also sink. Big win for resellers/vendors. On top as well for Clevo. And not forget the owners. Happy Owner’s will always come back!!

 

Except people are that price sensitive sadly. I'll see what I can do on the feedback front with it but a deep decision like that is usually pretty hard to over come.

 

I wonder if -TM CPU cooling can be use in -DM? Mechanically looks compatible...

 

You have to find a solution for the fan. Old DM use 5v fans. Maybe you need the higher bottom lid from newer models as well (not sure about this).

 

I have a lot slim fans from other Clevos (I bought some faulty Clevos for spare parts).

OK, I see - fan is on one assembly with rest of cooling. But this is no problem for me, because I can use external fan controller, as I use for GPU.

 

People that are price sensitive don't buy new monsterbooks like a P870 unless they are also schizophrenic. Anyone that would bow out over a $50 or less price bump to account for an extra fan and a few screws that are needed for improved thermal management has no business owning one. They are not worthy of owning one if that is a problem for them or they would prefer to save $20 to $50 on a less capable product.

 

So how much do you think would sager charge for upgrade to 4th fan?

 

I would love to know exactly where all this money is going, that losing money on the units is instant if they fix their heatsinks/use better fans, since the GPUs pretty much cost half of what we pay for them in notebooks?

 

@Meaker@Sager, mr fox hit the point there, people that really knows to get extra performance out of it will know $50 spent on a much better cooling system is no brainer. i mean people already paying that or more for delid or possibly better clocked CPU.

that $50 + delid service would mean an easily additional 500-800mhz+ 24/7 overclock, such a small price to pay when intel would charge $300+ for a measly SKU change that adds 100-200mhz for overheating piece of junk.

tbh i dont think they can do it this time around. adding 4th fan itself probably isnt that much work, finding a tiny fan that fit and works with connector. issue is piece of chassis blocking newly added radiator to exhaust air, theres no kit to remove it unless they make one but that would possibly damage chassis if not done right.

at this point p870TM is a lost cause and only through manual work then it is possible for upgrade, which isnt that much work.

hope we'll see 8 core laptop with redesign on chassis, cpu heatsink and mobo. or keep cpu heatsink the same but changing up chassis/bottom plate to accomdate 4th fan.

 

That spare connector is for a 5V PWN FAN (vs. the 3 x 12V variable speed models), but even the dev-boards didn't come with the FAN itself. Probably part of the next refresh. I'll see to enable it in the EC of the Mod if required.

EDIT: @Phoenix Why do we have two Owner Lounges for this model? They should really get merged before they're too big...

 

So Clevo has disabled the fan header in EC as default?

 

Depending on the version the 5v line maybe active but the pulse width regulation may not.

 

So basically if it works, chances are it'll run at 100% or off entirely?

 

so as suspected, they had this with D900F never got anywhere, though x7200 and 570PM did have different board and similar chassis, came with 4 fans. theres a good chance then we'll get to see 4th fan on next revision.

it'll be great for getting that connector to work via EC mod so people wouldnt have to reroute wiring from other power source say a solder to usb port perhaps for that 5v. if a power wiring mod is done then cant control fan speed, will run at w/e it runs as long as the voltage/current allows it.

 

Here are some temp readings of a stock 8700k (no undervolt, no delid) in the P870TM
Firestrike


3dm11


Skydiver


CB11.5


CB15


3dmark Vantage

The temps are quite high because there is no UV + delid. Also here are the things I noticed:
1. The hole where we used to push the keyboard is gone (p870dm to p870dm2). This time, the screwdriver has to go through the middle fan for the keyboard to be pushed out @Meaker@Sager , is this the correct way?
2. The t-shaped heatsink in the P870DM2/3 fits the P870TM
3. Win7 installation is a PITA. Slipstreaming drivers did not work. I installed a clean copy on the P870DM2 and transferred it to the P870TM. When I checked No Gui Boot in msconfig, it corrupted the OS.

I'll test this out with the 1080 tomorrow.

 

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing. +5 Rep

Sounds like using my tape handles on the keyboard is going to be even more useful for the new machine. Good to know that the 1080 single GPU T-shaped heat sink fits the new machine.

Did you try the modded drivers I got from Fernando at Win-Raid for the chipset? If not, maybe that will help with W7.

 

Thank you brother @Mr. Fox . Yeah, the tape handles are very much handy.

I did slip-streamed it in the W7 Bootable, however I still lose USB control when installing directly in the TM. In the P870DM2, I have no problems installing W7. So I tried your other method and used Macrium on the SSD. After transferring it in the TM1, all the drivers in the CD worked OK.

 

Well, it's good that that the Macrium image trick worked for you for now... gotta love that Macrium Reflect.

The USB 3.0 drivers may need to be modded as well. Perhaps Fernando at Win-Raid can help you get that sorted. My USB 3.0 had to be modded for installation purposes as well. The USB 3.1 controller on the desktop is ASMedia and that driver may or may not work for the Clevo.

I am uploading the W7 ISO that I created for my desktop with the modded Intel chipset and USB 3.0/3.1 drivers from Fernando, along with NVMe support, so you can give that a try and see if you still lose USB 3.0 support during Windows Setup. When the upload is finished I will post a link for you.

 

Congrats and Thanks for sharing, bruh. Can you tell us what max cpu package power you get in Cinebench - stock clocks? + can you feel a difference in air flow from the cpu fans vs. DM2 from the cpu grills? +rep

Edit. And could you masure the high from the cpu bracket and up to top of the second small cpu grills? Thanks

 

@dspboys - here it is if you want to see if it works OK.

[Download] W7 ISO with CFL driver (Intel Z370 Chipset, Intel USB 3.0, ASMedia USB 3.1 and NVMe SSD) support added. Supports installation of W7 Home, Pro and Ultimate x64.

 

@Mr. Fox One of the reason we see are in the sad state for high performance laptops today... Shopping Guide - the perfect gaming notebook People get wrong advices!! The end result can be seen in this thread!!

 

I hope these pictures will suffice. I do not have a measuring equipment with me, but I will try fitting the new heatsink onto the p870dm tomorrow.
Top View

Bottom

Side views (really hard to picture) Left is P870TM, right is P870DM for all the pictures. I rotated them 4 times

 

Thank you so much for sharing bro.
The P870TM heat sink has a big difference from the DM heat sink in size and design. I'd love someone to try a 7700K on that new heat sink. This will judge on how much of an improvement the P870TM has.
Does anyone know where I can purchase a full P870TM heat sink kit and a P870TM CPU heat sink fan please?
I have contacted Eurocom and I'm still waiting for a response...

 

We can always expect chaos when the "experts" don't know what they are talking about and the kiddos in the peanut gallery believe what the "experts" have to say about the things that they don't know about. It is really sad for the rest of us that are left with the fallout and our list of acceptable options (if, in fact, there actually are any) that remain can be counted on one hand with leftover digits.

 

I just found out from the lead tech at Eurocom that he used the ASUS desktop motherboard drivers and the Easy Installer tool from ASUS to create the Windows 7 USB installation media he is using on the Clevos he is testing and it worked great for him. So, if you want to make your own, you can grab the drivers and tool from the Maximus X Hero or Strix motherboard support pages. Here is a link to what he used: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z370-E-GAMING/HelpDesk_Download/

This tool actually came on the support DVD for my motherboard, but I did not know what the ASUS Easy Installer tool was for.

 

I tried fitting it into the P870DM2, but it needs a case mod
P870DM2

P870TM

There is a cut on the P870TM1 that will make the larger heatsink fit.
Here is how it looks like on the P870DM2:


The screws won't align unless the one on the back gets removed.

@Papusan , here you go


@Mr. Fox , thank you for the information! The iso download failed but I will try Asus link you posted.

 

Thanks, bruh. +rep
Can clearly see Coffee use a lot more power in Cinebench with stock clocks vs. Kaby.

Same Q again, bruh could you masure the high from the cpu bracket plate and up to the top of the second small cpu grill? Above the pipes. Thanks

 

Since I don't have a ruler, I used the P870DM battery screw. If you remove the head of the screw, that will be the length Aside from that, your other question about the fans. They are the same as the P870DM2/3 and should be the same in airflow and noise.

Additional Info:
1. I tried plugging the non-gsync GTX 1080 from my P870DM2 and it did not boot in the P870TM1. I thought I would only lose gsync but this is not the case.
2. When you install Clevo Control Center in Windows 7, the voltage is automatically set to override with a value of 1.25V.
3. I am unable to test Cinebench at 5Ghz, it throttles like crazy even though the temperatures can handle it (<80C).
Around 93W at stock Freq at 1.08V

 

Does the new model cool better than the old one?

 

In terms of CPU yes, but still a delid + liquid metal + undervolt/static voltage is a must to have much lower temps.

 

What is a good temp for the cpu and gpu?

 

Well, it is subjective. But for me, when the temps are below 80C it is good.

Addendum: Here are some additional benchmarks of the 8700k in the P870TM1
Firestrike

Firestrike Extreme

Firestrike Ultra

3dmark11 (throttling I know, can't figure it out yet)

3dmark Vantage

CB 11.5

CB 15

 

Well I will have to see how it goes when I get it. I was wanting temps between 70 and 80.

My reseller won't allow me de lid or do too much without vpiding warranty so ill have to hope i get a well made one and it stays cool under load.

 

You seem to be betting a lot on hope.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

 

Yep.

But I always have the option to return it.

 

How are the temps? Do you guys think the Delidding service HIDevolution does is needed? I've been comparing HID's NP9877 to GenTech, and it's about a $300 price difference, well $420 if I configure it with a 8700K at HIDevolution.

It seems the main benefit of HIDevolution is delidding, and they offer up to 3 years warranty while Gentech only offers up to 2 years on NP9877.

My config is $3353.02 at GenTech but $3675 at HIDevolution with HID only being 8600K at $3675, while GenTech is 8700K for $3353.02. RAM (32GB), GPU (GTX 1080), NVME SSD (250GB Samsung 960), etc all the same.

I'm just unsure which to go with, as I don't know if NP9877 needs the delidding HID offers, and I would prefer a 3 year warranty over 2 years, as an Alienware R14 I had in 2014 crapped out after about 2 years 2 months in, blue screening hardware failure codes. Then there's the price difference.....

Was hoping to spend $3000, with $3500 being the absolute most I will allow myself to stretch the budget without wanting to punch myself. Hell for $3500 I could get my $3353.02 config at GenTech + 1 Day shipping so I don't end up getting pissed when my UPS carrier says "customer not available" just to get out of driving here at 7pm as Next Day Air is by 10:30am.

Hmm.