Sony Vaio Z i5/i7 Official Owners Thread

Actually, there is no TRIM for RAID0 arrays anywhere, not just for Sony.

I don't think TRIM support (or lack thereof) at the drive level has been confirmed. It looks likely, though, that the latest Intel raid drivers don't yet support TRIM.

A quick review:

-The Drives *might* support TRIM (personally, I think this is likely since Samsung has been building TRIM-supported SSD drives for a few months now)
-The OS supports TRIM (Windows 7)
-The RAID controller doesn't yet support TRIM. This has been rumored to be in the works for a while.

For full automatic trim support in a RAID environment, all 3 needs to be in place.

If the drives support TRIM, it is likely that you will have TRIM support if the SSDs are not combined in RAID, but are set as individual drives (JBOD). Again, not confirmed.

Unfortunately, no one on the forum (yet) has an SSD-enabled Z to test for us. The only review that tested this was from geek montage, which is very suspect at the moment. Their statements regarding cloning their RAID0 array implied they didn't really know what they were talking about.

-Peter

 

come on guys....
either buy it with the ssd and live with it. its still faster as a normal hdd(though i myself wouldnt buy a premium laptop with degradation so i can understand you guys!!!)

or do it like me,
buy the hdd version and change it to a normal ssd. there is room cause of the lack of dvd and the change is easy!!
thats my way and of course its not the perfect solution because you have to open it but its the only way to get the perfect performance!!!

 

In many countries the HDD version is not available...you have to consider this!

Thank God wie live in Germany

 

And what should people do who want a DVD drive?
I'd prefer a single, better SSD, too. But I'm still hoping that in JBOD TRIM will work with those Samsung SSDs.

 

not availablein some countries...oh ok. that sux for sure!!!
and for dvd, ok if u want one thats bad. but for real, i never use it when im on the road. only usb sticks. and at home i have an external one by samsung. works via one single usb port and its perfect for me...

 

In the same boat 256gb ssd. anyone know about this free backup software:

Macrium Reflect Free Edition

The reviews of Acronis True Image Home 2010 doesn't seem to be good here:

http://www.amazon.com/Acronis-True-Image-Home-2010/dp/B002MFSG0M/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

I also use it only rarely, but when I need it, I'm happy I have it.
Besides, I like to have everything what I need in my laptop (ok, printer and scanner can be exernal)

 

Does the Intel Solid State Drive Toolbox work on these raid drives (since it is an Intel controller), or do the drives themselves need to be Intel SSDs for that to work. When someone gets a SSD-Raid version would you be willing to run this tool and see what it reports:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=18455

 

Why the sony Z dont have Optimus technogy of Nvidia ! I want a laptop with this ! The sony Z have core i5/7 and gt330m, Sony don't have reason to not support it !??

 

Macrium Reflect Free Edition isn't a backup program -- it's a disk imaging program only. You have to purchase the full version for backup functionality.

If all you want is disk imaging, boot a linux CD or key fob, and use "dd". It generates a verbatim image that doesn't rely on any proprietary software (and which can even be mounted as an image or converted to a VMware disk, for that matter). Yes, it means typing instead of clicking.

If what you want is a backup, not a disk image, the backup that comes with Windows Vista/7 in Pro or higher editions is actually more reliable than most.

Things to check for when choosing a backup program:
Can you do a test restore?
What happens if you have an encrypted file (EFS) on the disk you back up?
Will it deal with NTFS junctions and streams?
What about 8+3 ("DOS") filenames? Will MICROS~2 still be MICROS~2 after restore, or will it become MICROS~1 (and your apps may stop working)?
What happens if the network goes down during a backup? Will it pick up from where it stopped, will you have to manually delete a bacup, or will you lose ALL your backups?
What happens if the device you back up to becomes full?
What happens if there's a read error on the device you want to restore from? Will it let you restore the rest, or will it abort the entire restore?

Based on the above, the MS bundled backup is actually one of the better programs out there. The caveat is that it won't work for backing up to a Samba server (which includes most NASes).

 

No wear leveling? This I was not aware of. Can anyone else confirm this?

 

If i was to get this i really would prefer if we had a choice to go for a single SSD. I would prefer a single 128GB SSD. I have no real interest in getting RAID. It is may be more power hungry and it adds a few seconds to the bootup time. I don't see why getting a RAID array is the only option if you want an SSD.

 

Thanks for your detailed explanation. I actually want a true image stored on an external hdd or dvd when my new z comes. I want to use that image to install when my quad ssd disintegrates. I guess then Acronis True Image Home 2010 is the best option for me?

 

I was also one of those waiting for the 13in MBP to be refreshed. I don't think Steve is going to pay attention to anything else until the iPad has been released for a while and its most urgent issues dealt with. The iPad is projected to make a gagilian bucks for Apple...

Wow, good job man I hope they were not upset with Sony for not sending them one for review, and showing their displeasure by giving the SSD its poor review.

 

That is precisely what Sony provides with the SSD in the F-series. A clean 256GB single Toshiba SSD drive with TRIM support (there is a 128GB version in some markets too).

Sure, it won't have the fancy 600 MB/Sec read and 430 MB/Sec write speed of the Quad-RAID0 setup of the new Z, but otherwise offers exemplary and snappy performance, which is guaranteed to not degrade over time.

 

Wish it had a better screen in the US which stopped me

 

That sucks big time. What about GC? Does it offer that?

Unfortunately, HHD is not offered here in the USA. After all this talk about lack of trim/GC, I really want a Z with a normal Hard Drive. Maybe, P1 will allow CTO's with HHD.

If not, I most likely will get one, but I may just get the Base Silver with 128SSD. I wouldn't want the hassle of having to do an image copy of the drive every 3-4 months.

As mentioned before, your average consumer, who buys this new Z, wouldn't know to do this. It's a lot of maintenance IMO.

 

Hi guys,

I was at the Sony building in Ginza a few days ago and I checked out the new Z. They had a silver one and a glossy carbon one on display. I really liked the glossy carbon...kinda like the finish on the Cyber-shot TX7. The silver one also looked nice but does have a bit cheaper look than the black one. Also, I actually saw the paint wearing off on the corners and sides of the silver version. Also, I saw the silver Z get stuck for some reason and the girls who worked there tried to fix it. They restarted and fiddled with the laptop's bios which didn't help. They then replaced the silver one with a black one with the regular premium carbon lid. Another thing worth mentioning was that the fullHD Z was next to the F with the premium matte fullHD screen and the Z blows it away. I also found the 1600x900 Z screen better than the F with the premium screen. I also tried looking for the diagonal vertical lines on the new Z....unfortunately I managed to see them on all 3 models that I saw there...however the lines are less noticable than the old Z. Just 10 more hours to go...till I pick up my Z117...

 

isn't the 128gb ssd 2*64gb RAID 0?

 

Agreed.

Seriously Sony, what's wrong with you? Why neuter your flagship laptop and alienate your US/Canadian customers? With the full HD laptop and non-SSD options available everywhere else in the world it's obvious this is a cash-grab attempt.

Edit: I just finished doing an online chat with a Sony rep and they said there is no other way to get the full HD screen in the US/Canada save for the "Signature" edition.

Sony, your products are good, but your business decisions are terrible.

 

Yes it is if I am not mistaken.

 

@Geeee

East or west u can't escape sony ssd disintegration in the Z I am in the same boat with the 256gb ssd and I have just bought a Acronis True Image Home 2010

 

Peter, thank you for your response. It seems that people focus in on the negative and ignore factual posts such as yours.

People, we don't know what we don't know. If you don't want the SSD, buy another laptop or wait for traditional drive configurations to emerge.

 

I understand that most of you future Vaio Z owners are disappointed with the SSD-only option for not incorporating TRIM. Would JBOD still work? I still want to make the best use out of the SSDs TRIM or no TRIM.

 

I'm torn.

On the one hand I would like it very much if the 256GB comprises 64x4, because then it will be as fast and unreliable as humanly possible (a good thing in my book).

On the other hand, if it is 128x2, it would be a very usable configuration to split them into two and have two 128GB ssd's (assuming trim can be enabled). I can also imagine being very happy in that scenario.

The part that kills is not know which case is actually being shipped.

Howza 'bout it, Anyone gotten a 256GB that cares to share their info? (Bueller... anyone?)

 

Um, no. Do you know whether Acronis True Image Home supports your fakeraid configuration? If it doesn't, you probably won't be able to restore the image, even if it manages to make it.

Personally, if I were to back up a RAID 0 that way, I would do it from a linux boot disk.

dd if=/dev/md0 of=/path/to/backup/md0.dd
dd if=/dev/md1 of=/path/to/backup/md1.dd
(repeat for each partition you have)

To restore, do the exact same, but swap the if and of parameters, e.g.:
dd if=/path/to/backup/md0.dd of=/dev/md0


The biggest advantage is that you're not limited to the raid type you currently have -- you can back up a RAID 0 and restore it to a RAID 1 if you so like. Another pretty big advantage is that you're not locked in to a single program. It's a bit perfect copy just like an ISO (and, indeed, you can make ISOs that way), and will work in any program that can handle raw images.

A disk image won't help with SSD saturation, though. It copies empty sectors just as well as used ones, because it works at a lower level than the file system and has no concept of "empty" or "free".
A file system dump would work for that, cause it works at the file system level, dumping only the used blocks to a file. However, there are exactly zero reliable dump programs for NTFS. Norton Ghost used to be able to do it, but not the last few versions.

 

A hdd is like going to the dark ages. Never again will I deal with sensitive mechanical drives that go into "protection" when ever I move the laptop to fast. I have dropped this ssd Z a few times

unless I can put a second drive into the cd bay...

I will never go back to a hdd on my laptop. I bought my old Z with the 256gb ssd I am typing on right now a year and a half ago and the ssd was a miracle. It still is today. I filled it up and deleted refilled many times and it still works better then any hdd, I know, I do have regular hdd laptops this one is still much faster even without doing any fancy maintenance. I needed the 512 gigs a year and a half ago, not I need a TB. Even if this ssd degraded it still works great. Can't wait for the new one that seems to be much faster out the gate so even if it slows I don't care. If it turns out I should be doing a complete restore of the drive then I do that. Well worth it. I do wonder if I can take the blueray drive out of my new Z signature and but a data hdd drive in there instead???????? Is there TB that would fit in there? Same cable as the cd drive? I don't mine the hole in the side, I put some duct tape on that

This morning I cancelled my previous order I made for the Sig some time ago and reordered with the 15% discount. Signature, extended battery, the extra warranty (2 years) expedited shipping. Still big bucks. Thanks guys for the heads up on the discount. :wink: . Can't wait for this rocket to show up. Its increased speed will save me time and at times frustration.

 

Agree completely. The glossy Full-HD screen that the US F-series gets, has got sub-par vertical viewing angles, unlike the matte Full-HD screens that are available freely, as an option in the EU and Japanese markets. The US does not get either the premium matte Full-HD F-series screen, nor does it get the Full-HD Z-series screen (other than in the $4.5K signature model).

Wonder who makes these silly decisions on these flagship products (Sony markets the F-series as their current flagship for multi-media applications and the Z series as their flagship for Executive laptops).

If the Z-series got the Quad-core CPUs, and came with Full-HD screen in the US, I would have picked up the Z in a heartbeat and eschewed the F-series. Unfortunately, I doubt the small chassis of the Z can handle the Quad-cores.

 

So... what I'd like to do is:

-Have the default QuadSSD setup (256GB = 4x64GB)
-From time to time, when the SSD becomes "oversaturated" and whatnot so that performance seriously degrades, do "some things" so that the performance is restored. I don't mind if the "some things" part includes/means/entails a clean Windows installation, as I will take backups of all important files to an external HDD, and I can even endure installing all my software 1-3 times per year if there's no way around it.

Now, what are these "some things" that I have to do, and what software can do it? There is an option in the Win7 Backup & Restore utility to "Create a System Image" - this would not work?

Also, there's been talk about this "security wipe" that tells the SSD that the entire flash can be written to without a performance hit (what the TRIM command does without deleting all the information on the drive). HOW can I do this on my new Z (that should be delivered this week), which has the 256GB QuadSSD. Preferably, I wouldn't want to change the default RAID configuration, except perhaps temporarily.

Thank you to anyone who knows the answers and has the time to share the info to an SSD/RAID-n00b like me

 

Anyone know?

 

I have been using these screens for years and have been quite rough with them with no problems. I doubt you need a screen protector for this one based on my real world everyday experience travelling all over the world with more laptops then I can count including the last 4 top of the line sonys. I don't expect this one to be different.

 

+1.

I was not a fan of *anything* Sony prior to this, and especially not their computing products. But I made a preliminary leap of faith based on the new Z's ambitious specs alone. As it stands, there are too many caveats now for me to make the jump as an early adopter and pre-order a US$2500 CTO unit -- I have the money waiting, but it's still a lot of money, and I'm not willing to spend it blindly on a laptop in which SSD degradation is still a question mark, and the 1080p display is not available in anything but the topline Signature model. I realize it's all a marketing game, but it really pi$$es me off that Sony would do this in the North American market, and it only turns me off to them as a company even more. I'm not ruling them out completely yet, but this allows me to be a bit more patient and now opens the door for me to consider other (albeit less impressive) models. Let's see what the other manufacturers can bring to the table.

 

1. SSD deterioration
2. Diagonal lines
3. Battery loses charge
4. Battery is loose
5. Fan is noisy
6. US options are bizarrely limited
7. Paint scratches easily

I demand that Sony recall the new Z and address all of my concerns immediately, then give me a free new-new Z with lifetime onsite next-hour replacement warranty. Please bombard Tokyo HQ with mails to make sure this happens for me.

 

Yeah, it is almost like they hire based on loyalty rather than credentials. Probably some board member's son. Seriously, fire most of your execs and hire some young fresh blood. Overqualified grad students are at an all time high in terms of unemployment. They will probably bring Sony's image back in 2 years. Sony think outside the box and stop with your proprietary garbage. It has never paid off. Mini disk, ummm Memory stick, umm betamax, ummm ATRAC, UMD, Well I copuld go on, but what the hell... Non-User replaceable QUAD SSD.

 

I think the previous Z had an issue where the palm rests come into contact with the screen when the latter is closed. As a result, there's this horizontal line that developed over time. This new Z seems to have less screen flex than before, but I'll still be getting a micro-fiber cloth to cover the keyboard and palm rests before I close the lid. Just in case I don't think I'll get something like a transparent skin for the screen though, I'll save that for my phone...

 

The "HDDerase" utility is a DOS utility. You boot into DOS, which doesn't understand soft raid and sees each drive as a separate unit. This is a good thing, as you can erase each individual SDD that way.
After this is done, the drives are really squeaky clean, to the point that they don't even contain the marker that tells the RAID post-BIOS configuration what array they're part of. So you have to re-setup the RAID from scratch in the post-BIOS screen. Then either (a) install Windows and restore a backup, or (b) recreate the partitions and restore from dumps.

 

Totally agree with ssdfreak!

Coming from an old SZ and about to buy the new Z which is going to be my first SSD experience I just cant believe ppl buying the HDD version (and not swap it for SSD later) or even contemplating to skip Z altogether just because of lack of TRIM.

I mean seriously put things into perspective. You have several options if TRIM is a no-buy for you.

1. Swap HDD to SSD
2. create JBOD (not yet confirmed it supports TRIM)
3. Split the raid array into 1 drive for OS and 3 drives in raid (also not confirmed that it works with TRIM)
4. If none of the above is an option or they wont work then backup your system into an image and format the drive and re-apply the image. I doubt you have to do it more than 2 times a year. Most of us probably have re-installed windows once a year anyways.
5. Wait for new raid driver which supports TRIM. It is technically possible and bound to come at some point.
6. Wait for the refresh and hope they come up with single SSD option based on customer feedback

There are several workarounds. Besides SSDs are so much faster than HDD that it seems like a waste to invest more than $2000 to a laptop with all the bells and whistles and settle for old storage technology.

Even though I dont have first hand experience on SSDs I would never ever buy HDD laptops again. TRIM or no-TRIM!

 

I believe the term used in the previous thread was "hysteria".

 

Hmm... Are you saying you might not be able to see the Raid 0 partition from an Acronis boot CD (recovery CD)?

I thought the raid controller was started post BIOS, but pre OS. Meaning that any OS that is booted from either disk (via raid controller or not) can see the raided partition. And that would include Acronis, no matter if it's started from within Windows or from a boot CD.

Did I miss something?

 

...and don't forget: Cost is way too high, screen is far too thin, weight is too low, processor is too fast, processor is too slow,... and all the others problems it has.

Ultimately, it just makes you wonder that between this thread and its ancestor, why i gots to keep checking it several times a day just to keep up with the incredible rate of posting by all these people that are apparently so disgusted with this terrible little machine

 

Where to jump into the technology evolution is always a 'jump' and never skip as you are always buying AT LEAST 120 day old configurations.

When I was on this forum after buying my brand new SZ370PC, the world is going to end cry at the time was the upcoming transition to Windows Vista (I know that seems funny now but we were trying to ensure that we could support Vista and get the drivers). In the end, a lot of those that ended up waiting for the fresh Vista packaging ended up having to downgrade to XP as the OS was just more robust at the time and then they simply waited for Windows 7 which the system runs just fine.

Point being is that you win some and you lose some, but in the technology evolution, the model that you have delivered to your doorstep is ALWAYS nearly six months old technology.

Trust me, when USB 3.0 andTRIM supported drives are shipping this summer, there will be another must have refresh on the horizon.

 

FWIW:

The expected ship date on Sony USA for CTO has been bumped a week now to the 23rd of the month. I placed my order about 2 1/2 weeks ago and my date hasn't changed (16th) ... yet!

i7-620m
W7 Pro
Fresh Start
Prem Carbon
8 GB
512 GB
WWAN
CD/DVD

 

I noticed the slide in ship dates this am. Bummer. I was finally willing to pull the trigger, but I reave on an extensive trip on the 25th so delivery simply would be too risky. Looks like I am going to be 'forced' to wait for a post refresh model. Decision has been made by Sony for me

 

Europe ftw with its HDD version I guess this is the first time Sony does something pro europe

 

Lol. is not right Negaiddo. SurferJohn, I've taken a screen shot directly from Sony's Canadian website which is pretty much same configurations as the US site regarding the performance/difference between the i5 and i7. Notice the i5 has HD editing but does not really give two thumbs up for HD viewing such as the i7 chip (under Recommended Usage). Considering you are a film student and your needs greater for HD content you wouldn't want to make a mistake in cpu selection and have to deal with the issues afterward. Hope this helps. Cheers.

 

Where do you check that (the date on my order detail still says 3/10)

 

I go to "My Account", log in and then check the order status.

 

No, he is right. Neither the i7 or i5 will have any problems with decoding HD content. The picture you posted is just marketing language from Intel, to try and sell you a more expensive product.

 

News report...

A user in Taiwan used his Z115(i5 version) for real work, it seems like he encountered a lot of problems but he is still very happy(that is really weird...).

The problems he encountered:
1. HDMI output seems like problematics, color shifts and extremely bright in 1080P. When switched to 1600x900 the external display back to normal.
2. After removing HDMI, the display on Z shows discrete lines, he had to adjust the refresh rate to 49Hz(typo?) to make it normal.
3. He cut a very large drawing in Autocad which caused blue screen of death, Windows 7 restarted and then back to normal.(Due to overheating?)
4. The calculation is very fast about the same speed of Q6600. However, when calculating, the temperature is extremely high, the fan is also extremely noisy. He thinks that next time he will switch to Intel HD when doing calculation.(Does this matter?)
5. One user reports the HDMI does not pass through bitstream DTS-HDMA nor Dolby TrueHD(needs to be verified).

The whole post is at http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=258&t=1454330&last=17999480

I am amazed that even though there are problems, he is still very happy about the Z....I just don't get it...

 

Never look at those settings , it is information for people who have no knowledge about processors.
It's like with internet providers, they give the fastest connection to people who download a lot and play a lot of games. But this is bull off course because you don't need 50 Mbit to play games online or download. 25 Mbit is more then enough for those things.