Defective Nvidia chipsets in your current Vaio?

That sounds bad.
Just wondering - some don't mention the 8400GS (SZ) some do.

Could someone knowledgeable (that excludes me) sum up the situation once again, to actually bundle all this?

I once asked this before, and got a very good and comprehensive reply for my SZ, and it seems as I'm in the same boat.

Also, I for example don't quite know what the differnece is between G92 and G94, or what it actually means. In contrast I know whats going on when I hear 8400GS.

Would be nice if someone had the time to create a good overview.
Thanks a lot in advance!

And thank you for the constant updates!

(Which make me learn more and more about graphic cards)

 

This is news to me. I thought only the 8-series was bad but 9-series as well? And does that include the mobile 9-series chips (I know the mobile 8-series is affected), like the 9300M GS?

 

G84, G86, G92, and G94 are abbreviations that identify graphics chipsets. (think of them as a family) The actual products that appear in our notebooks & desktops are the children of that family. Some of the children are big (slower clock speeds), some are lean and nimble (faster clock & memory speeds). The babies in the family can only process so much information - the older children are much better at this (bus width & memory capcity).

As this applies to you: You have a SZ. The actual product is a 8400M GS (kinda the middle child.. not the varsity player but far from the newborn) Your card is based off of the G86 chipset; there are a couple of other products that others may have that would essentially be siblings to yours.

The same thing applies to the G92 and G94. Nvidia usually mentions the chipsets in the official product information on their site. A good quick-reference is Wikipedia. You can quickly identify which family (codename) and compare features amoung the children (model). See:

GeForce 8 series and GeForce 9 series. (note: some of the GeForce 9 information is incomplete)

In very general terms the (physical) material that was used to manufacture the (Nvidia related) parts in our computers is "cracking" because it can't withstand rapid changes in temperature.

What changes in temperature?
The change that happens when you quickly move from a cold state (computer off/hibernate) to a mild state (idle, light use) or hot state (heavy use, gaming) (and vice versa).

What does the damage then?
The "cracks". They raise the temperature in both the mild and hot states. Once that happens the change back to the cold state is even more drastic. This in turn causes the material to fracture further which raises the temperature in those two states even more. Once a certain temperature has been reached your notebook *should* shut down automatically, refusing to boot until it's cooled. The high heat might also physically damage the surrounding components in the notebook. The worse case scenario is that the computer refuses to boot and the motherboard (since the graphics chipset is integrated) needs to be replaced.

Symptoms:
- Increasingly shortal intervals between temperature states.
- Graphic artifacts, lines, color distortions & bleeds, and ultimately - lack of video.
- Hotter (than usual) notebook for increasingly longer periods of time.

Catalysts:
- Anything that increases temperature state change or affects the speed at which that change occurs. (e.g. power management software, powermizer, power schemes, etc..)

I wasn't surprised to hear this as some of the lower 9-series appear to be re-used 8-series parts (at least from a feature and performance perspective). Although the Inquirer article mentions desktops I would be particularly hesitant to endorse the low end models (for example the 9300M in the new Z) if they were the same fab process as the older 8-series. There was a great chart which included 3DMark performance in that long "new vaio models" thread. Maybe someone has it to repost?

Nvidia released the GeForce Power Pack today which includes a new driver, a couple of demos, and game.

First post was updated with the links. It might be a good idea to list all of the Vaios that use the G92 and G94 chipsets in a "watch list". Can anyone confirm that I got all the models that were affected by the G84 and G86 chipsets?

 

Great post, thanks a lot!!!
I'm sure many more will appreciate your work.

Another question, is it worth getting the upgraded driver, or did NVidia try to juggle the settings to extend the cards life?
And what's all this preview, game extendion and free game stuff about? Do they want people to destroy their graphics cards as fast as possible (lots of usage) or are they trying to water down the fact with the idea, "well, it's not that sturdy, but hey we give you lots of free software"??

And I dare say, it does look bad... I'm just happy that my SZ has the Chipset with which I'm fine

Again, many thanks iisdev for your very comprehensive overview!

Just to add:
I still find it strange that this issue seems to have a very small impact on Sony. I only saw 1 or 2 people with a failure in an FZ in here.... SZ is a different story altogether...

 

I'll be the first to admit that I'm no graphics card expert. I see that the GeForce Power Pack released by Nvidia talks about desktop GPUs. Can we still applied it on our SZs?

 

That's the reason why I am surprised. nVidia pretty much re-released old video card chips under the 9-series name. I thought that was a way to quickly fix the problem with the 8-series by introducing a new series without problems but without too much effort.

 

Yup, with a modded inf file.

Pick your poison:
XP 32bit, 64bit
Vista 32bit, 64bit

 

iisdev - have you tried the driver? what have you noticed after install? is it even worth it?

 

The fluid demo was actually pretty cool. I only have the demo of UT3 so I wasn't able to try the PhysX mod. My buddy has the full version so I'll check it out this weekend.

 

Hot off the gizmodo press:

Proof Nvidia G86 Desktop Graphics Cards Affected by Materials Defects?
The extent of the problems plaguing Nvidia's graphics cards is still controversial, though the company has confirmed that "weak" materials have caused "higher-than-normal" fail rates in certain mobile GPUs, which appear to be the G84 and G86-based graphics cards. The Inquirer said those issues extended to the desktop as well, which Nvidia denied. Interestingly, VR-Zone is reporting that Nvidia has issued a product change notification to customers that they're changing the underfill material for their desktop G86 chips from Namics 8439-1 to Hitachi 3730. Could mean nothing, but since their original problems stemmed from "weak" materials, it stands out. Is there a non-conspiratorial reason they would do this? [VR-Zone]

 

This is wacky absurd. Two thousand dollars for a gaming notebook that doesn't play games, and it's gonna die within a year or so. You betta stuff stuff recall or you'll be sorry man.

My ****downclocks and ASUS won't do**** about it. I asked them for a better BIOS and they just basically said they don't care. They also said that the 9500M GS isn't affected, but yet its G84 M - Revision A2. I'm sick a your fishy lies and your lack of support ASUS. ASUS hasn't even made a single update to their drivers, software, or made any comment on this subject, yet they sold millions of these questionable notebooks.

Now, you know what the stupid investors are going to do with their class actions? -Make it look like somethings being done about the problem, when in reality, they're sealing their own fate. The shareholders are the rich people who own the company and they're essentially making it so the consumers are the one's that'll be hugging at the end. Protect their money so that it won't even be possible for NVIDIA replace our stuff. When after all, it was their fault NVIDIA ended up building poo poo chips to begin with (making themselves even more money off us). How about buying the consumers new hardware - After all, you are the company, and your stealing from your customers. Any person/judge that allows them to get the money, while the the rest of us suffer should be executed without question. This world has gone to the middle of the galaxy. I'm furious!

 

Settle for a revved up fan. Now that's maddness...

 

Just a few questions to you mcurran:
a) Why are you complaining about an Asus laptop in a Sony Forum? Because the issue is the NVidia Chipset? Ok, but still.
b) Could you watch your language a bit? Do you need to be rude 10 times? I know sometimes people are angry, and then vent their anger in this forum on a valid (!!) complaint, but still, 10 times is overkill! And that little asterix wont change it. It makes for bad reading also.

And a personal question to you: Why do you buy a laptop for gaming anyway? If you are a "gamer" you want a desktop, if you just play the odd game (like me, Empire Earth 2, Age of Empires 3) you don't need a gaming laptop. But let everyone choose for themself. What's more, in a desktop you can upgrade it bit by bit, a laptop you'll have to replace in one go.

Enjoy your computer as it lasts!

 

Well maybe Sony owners will then have something to be little happy about - Like at least they didn't buy from ASUS.

I think my language presents my attitude and the seriousness of this dilemma. I think it's more entertaining as well. No? I was laughing my bum-bum off while typing, so essentially you're right: I was venting.

I wanted a laptop, and since I wanted a laptop: I wasn't going to buy an expensive one that had no capabilities. If I'm going to spend the money, I figured I'd try to get the best hardware for the money. I think a lot of people would agree with my choice, considering the G1 series have been rated as the top 3 notebooks to buy in a few polls over the past two years. I'm not going to bother trying to find the source for that, because I'm lazy. What would you have recommended I buy three months ago - I wanted a good notebook that could play games, and I didn't want to spend enough to buy Alienware.

Why would I buy a notebook for gaming? Definately a question that would come from a Sony enthusiast.

For others reading that don't know what we're talking about: My original post got deleted because I was swearing, and I basically said that the manufacturers are doing pretty much nothing about the situation - and also mentioned that I think the class action suites will just be a way for the shareholders to keep from losing money, which in the end means that the consumers (us) will be the ones losing out. So, don't be fooled into thinking something is getting done about the situation for the gpu buyers. I feel this should be illegal, but I could be wrong about my outlook on the situation.

 

Nice to see some good language.

Your right, with the class action the general customer will loose out, simply, because if NVidia looses the lawsuit will most likely bankrupt the company which means no-one gets anything or else NVidia wins and no-one gets anything.
So it is a bad situation, too true.

Regarding your opinion that manufacturers are doing nothing about it - no! They are doing something, maybe not everyone though.
HP extended the warranty by 2 years for free.
I think Dell did or was planning something similar.

No Sony has not yet responded, in contrast however, only one or two Sony FZ failed due to this issue, which seems very strange.
No SZs have yet failed, but they have the Chipset when the NVidia isn't required, so they can't be used as a measure.

And speaking about computer games, I don't really spend time with them any more, but I playes EMpire Earth 2 (and expansion) on a now about 3 years and 4 months old Medion laptop, 1,6Ghz Centrino, and initially 512MB Ram (now 1GB but not !!! dual channel) graphics was an Intel Chipset, so I don't really know about gaming anyway.
My SZ now was bought because it was the best power size combination I could find. And I'll be using that in university, hopefully for 3 or 4 years at least, but then I'm using the Chipset for 90% or more of the time.

So to get back to the NVidia issue - all we can do is wait for press releases and the lawsuit...

 

It is only a matter of time. Another Story from Gizmodo:

Dell Extends Warranties for Laptops With Failing Nvidia Chips While Nvidia Stays Mum
A major cause of frustration in the Nvidia notebook GPU fiasco—where "significant quantities" of notebook graphics cards are packaged with "weak" materials leading them to overheat and fail at a "higher-than-normal rate"—is that Nvidia is declining to identify exactly which chips are bad, as the WSJ notes today. So you've gotta find out from your notebook maker if you're possibly stuck with a time bomb. Dell is extending its limited warranties by a year to deal with the issue in the following notebooks:

http://gizmodo.com/5038776/dell-ext...h-failing-nvidia-chips-while-nvidia-stays-mum

Even if, as Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang says, that different notebook configurations and designs affect how the flameout will rear its head, it doesn't really excuse not disclosing the exact chips affected—widely believed to be of the G84 and G86 variety—and this effective silence is largely why rumors that most of their mobile GeForce 8 series is bad are able to gain traction, despite Nvidia's protests. Some actual information would go a long way in quelling them.

In the meantime, a BIOS fix that will simply delay or reduce the chance of the onset of the problem by kicking on the cooling fans earlier is an incomplete solution. We hope Dell is "going to take care of [their] customers" as promised. Ideally, since they (presumably) have the information about which specific configurations are at the greatest risk, they would notify those customers and offer to replace the card entirely, otherwise those customers are basically waiting for their cards to die. [WSJ, Dell]

 

My fiancee's SZ680 is now acting strange after a few months of working without issue. When using speed mode (8400m GS mode), it doesn't come out of it's "sleep" mode. It's set to turn off the screen when not in use for more than 15 minutes but want we use the touchpad to bring it out of this "sleep" mode, it blinks the once and goes blank again. No matter what you do then, it won't come back on. We always have to shut it off and reboot.

This issue doesn't exist in stamina mode (onboard video). I suspect the 8400m GS is already failing after only 3 or 4 months of use. What sucks more is that I just moved and I'm having trouble finding the receipt!

 

i had a weird issue yesterday myself. I was working on my computer and the screen just when blank. when it came back on I got a error in windows that stated that There was a hardware issue with my video card. I never go into stamina mode always run on the Nvidia chipset.

 

I don't know for sure, but I suspect this could be a driver/software issue, rather than the hardware failing. Especially if you're not seeing any other strangeness such as artifacts or weird patterns and lines on the display. Also, does the problem change at all when doing different tasks (e.g. gaming, browsing, watching videos) that tax the GPU differently?

I had a similar issue with my desktop PC (ATI video card) several years ago and it turned out that ZoneAlarm was putting up a security alert effectively asking me if I wanted to allow the ATI software to bring the screen out of standby. Obviously, because the screen was blank, I couldn't see the alert... so I thought my graphics card or software were to blame.

It's worth updating the drivers etc before you blame the hardware, IMHO. Most SZ users haven't seen the problem so your fiancee is extremely unlikely to have it after only a few months!

 

Does the video work again after you restart the machine? If so, I doubt if this has anything to do with the Nvidia chip failure issue. I suppose it could be somehow related but the failure reports thus far are more catostrophic than just a awake from sleep hang.

Gary

 

Try using a keyboard key like the arrow keys. That's what I always do to bring my SZ out of "sleep" mode. Both my SZ381 & SZ791 don't "wake up" from "sleep" mode with the touch pad. I always "wake" it up by pressing a keyboard key.

 

I don't think it's related to the same issue. Something similar happens with mine and it's forced me to give up on Suspend (Sleep). I've been using Hibernate (for lack of options) and the problem hasn't reoccurred so maybe consider that as a temporary workaround. Look at it this way; you conserve energy.

There were a couple of threads somewher around here that talked about this issue but I'm pretty sure no one has pinpointed the culprit. The best suggestions so far involved a conflict between the Powermizer feature and the OS power mode. Another interesting theory was a USB (power) related issue on the internal hub (could be any one of the peripherals.. the camera, keyboard, or trackpad). You might want to find (and resurrect) one of those old threads.

 

I guess that could be the case. I think we left Windows Update to automatically download and install. I've had updates that conflict with various items before so that could be the case here too.

Works fine after rebooting.

She had already tried the arrow keys and nothing.

There's only an external USB hard drive connected to it. I'll have to check out the other threads.

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

I apologize, I wasn't clear enough. Internally (read: motherboard) the WAN, bluetooth, fingerprint reader, and camera are all on the same USB bus. There have been issues in the past (TR camera anyone?) where the devices (internal hardware) have to be set with very specific settings (related to power) to work correctly under windows. You may only encounter this when doing a fresh (read: non-recovery, non-Sony) install; the normal recovery disks make these changes for you automatically. I thought the keyboard and touchpad were also on the same bus but according to the SZ docs they're managed by a completely different chip. That probably doesn't help but I didn't want you wasting time with external devices. In the course of troubleshooting you'd be better off with nothing attached.

 

Thanks! I should have read you post more carefully.

I had used the Sony downgrade to XP disc on a fresh hard drive I had put in. If it is software, I may have to take a lot of time troubleshoot. May never be done as my fiancee's always running something or another. She fine with it on the onboard video for now.

Thanks for the input!

 

Jut wondering.
Have there been any developments on the "NVidia issue"?

It seems to have gone quiet - which I don't like, because in this case this feels literally as if we are waiting for a bom to explode in our face...

 

Is there anybody with a failed nvidia chipset?
If so, could you post some photos of the screen when it is failing?
As DELL described, you should see:

* Multiple images
* Random characters on the screen
* Lines on the screen
* No video

Thank you!

 

I've got what I assume is a failed nVidia M8400 GT.
My computer is a Vaio VGN-FZ11S
This is what it looks like:



I can only run 640x480 resolution at 4 bits.

I mailed the picture to Sony's e-support and here's the answer I got, in short:

First of all please ensure that you have downloaded the nVidia update from the link below.

Has this solved the issue? If not, please try a system restore.

I had no hope that this would solve the problem, but I tried it anyway, without any success.

Then I found out that Dell had released a BIOS-update and thought that maybe Sony had done the same. I opened the online update webpage and found a "power management" update. I downloaded the update and rebooted the computer. After this the screen was back to normal.
However, after about an hour of use the screen froze. After a reboot the screen was back to looking like the picture above again.

My warranty expired a month ago, but I assume that Sony offers extended warranty for this. Otherwise it's the last time I've bought a Sony product. I'll have to call their customer support tomorrow to find out.

 

Their system restore suggestion is standard procedure.
Even if its obviously useless.

 

Hi mikper83, thanks for the image.

Do you have an account in www.club-vaio.com ?
If you do, please post this image in the Notebook section of the forum and I'll escalate it to VAIO Link.

 

By the way,
mikper83

If they don't want to repair your laptop, try to influence them by saying how happy you have been with previous products and how disappointed you are that they will not confirm the NVidia problem.
Also mention in passing that you'll submit that to a newspaper.
Apply some discreete pressure, while being friendly all the time.

In fact, I had a very positive experience with previous Sony products - the flip mechanism in a Sony Ericsson phone broke, but that's not directly Sony.
portable CD-Player, fell onto a stone floor, roled across a room, still works fine, MP3 player - perfect. USB drive perfect too.

 

I'm fearing that my FZ-190 might have just failed today... When I boot, there are a couple dozen vertical green lines through the VAIO logo and then, 10-20 columns that look like ::::....::::....::::....:::: comes up over a black screen prior to launching the repair console. That does nothing, and neither will system restore. I'm thankfully able to backup my files (which I'm doing as we speak) and have saved the most important things.

My warranty ran out July 7th, so I'm SOL there and already paid $30 for a Sony Tech support lady to tell me to do what I've already done. Next is to try and restore the HD to original factory specs and hope for the best. If not, off to Sony she goes for repairs. To think, tomorrow is my first day of classes too...

 

Are the people with the problem gfx cards gamers or casual gamers? Do you use a notebook cooler while gaming?

 

I seem to have forgotten my username and password. And for some reason I can't get the Nickname and password retrieval to work. I've sent a mail to support. Hopefully I'll be able to log in tomorrow.

That's exacly what my boot looks like.

Here are a few pictures of my boot up sequence:

 

Now this is beginning to look interesting...

 

I am sure a free repair will be available from Sony if a general nVidia problem begins to emerge.

I suggest all europeans users that is experiencing nVidia problems similar as mikper83 go to the www.club-vaio.com and post the photos and describe when the problem started for Sony to have more information to deal with.

The moderators on www.club-vaio.com could escalate this kind of problems directly to the VAIO support.

 

I've copied what I've written here and started a new thread at ClubVaio.

Here's the link: http://club.vaio.sony.se/clubvaio/se/sv/forum/viewthread?thread=56443

 

Yep, those are definetely symptoms of a GPU failure. This is exactly what my old Toshiba Tecra M2 looked like when its GPU failed. This is almost certain to be caused by the defective die packaging which is really unavoidable.

It sucks how you're out of warranty mate, but definitely you've got a case for a free repair and perhaps a warranty extension such as what Dell is offering its customers for the affected notebooks.

I wish you all the best.

 

Hi itssweeney,

I suggest you to take some photos and send it to the Sony support in your area. I could help you to escalate your notebook issue if you're in Europe

 

The weirdest thing has happened. After I used the Vaio Data Rescue and backed up everything that's important, I restarted my computer one last time and the weird artifacts disappeared and I booted perfectly fine into Vista. I have no explanation as to how I fixed it, or what was wrong. I guess I'm just going to pack up the notebook and bring it back to college since it is working.

Edit: I suppose I spoke too soon. Not even 5 minutes after I posted this, my machine froze up and when I restarted the green lines and graphic artifacts were back. Back to calling Sony Tech support...

 

Hi itssweeny, I think is preferable you take some photos of the screen to let them know what is happening. If you could share your photos here will be good too because we could gather more information for further investigation.

 

Hi there.

I'm new to the forums here but I've been reading the NVidia issues with great interest. I've got the VGN-FZ21S. It's been fine since purchasing it last October. However in the last month or so I've experienced video playback problems, specifically whilst streaming content from BBC I player. In either normal quality or the new high quality the video playback constantly glitches. This happens if using Safari, Firefox 3 or I.E. The same thing also happens when playing back purchased video/film from Itunes store. The playback constantly glitches. I previously had the latest 175 NVidia drivers when the problem started. I'm now using 177.83 drivers but the same problem still occurs. One of my techie friends is a computer programmer and says he's heard there are problems with the NVidia cards playing back certain high resolution video codecs, specifically AVC/h.264codec. I believe BBC I player uses this. However I watched a film at the weekend in MP4 and it played fine.

The only thing I can think of that's changed in the last few months is I'm now using the Yoggie Gatekeeper Card in the laptop for security. I really impressed by it. It's really sped up the computer now I'm not using Kaspersky Internet Security, however I was wondering if this might be the cause of the video glitching whilst streaming?

Any ideas guys?

Thanks

 

Try to update your Flash Player.

 

Update: After countless hours on the phone with Sony tech support, restoring my hard drive to it's factory condition and a few more painful hours on the phone, they determined my graphics chipset has failed. I could have told them that Sunday but I guess that is aside the point. For everyone's reference, the charge to replace the faulty chipset is $699 USD + $50 shipping.

My notebook is out of warranty by only a few weeks and this faulty graphics chipset failed because it was produced shoddily, not because of anything my fault. Sony (really, Nvidia) should be picking up the entire tab. Unfortunately, Sony has agreed to pay half of it. Better than nothing, but I am not thrilled. Is there any recourse? I'm just about at my wit's end.

 

Document EVERYTHING. Keep track of dates, times, reps names, what was said, what was done... everything. If this Nvidia issue comes to a head with Sony like it appears to have done with Dell and others, Sony may wind up extending warranties and you might be in line for a refund of your half.

Gary

 

So its going to cost you $350 + $50 = $400 to repair this?
I would complain to the higher ups at Sony about this and complain, and cite what the other manufacturers have done, which is to extend warranties on this.

 

Hi

I've got the latest Flash plugin installed through Safari, which is the browser I mainly use. Any ideas why the video glitching is happening.

Thanks

 

This is weird because I'm able to play AVC/h.264codec videos without any problem. Btw, I'm using OEM Nvidia drivers.

 

Hi itssweeney,

I agree about what Gary said, you should document everything. Photos of the GPU failing are important.

Regards,
Luis Neng

 

Hi

You say you're using the oem drivers. Are these the 177.85, as on LaptopVideotogo? Are there any differences using the normal nvidia drivers or oem?

It seems strange I'm experiencing this video glitching. It doesn't see, the same sort of problem others are experiencing in relation to gpu defects. Does anyone have any ideas how to fix this problem?

Thanks