My discoveries on Vaio Z’s Hybrid Graphics

OK, the FAQ is not very clear on this one.
The Z use hybrid graphic with a physical switch that allow you to choose between three modes :
-Stamina (intel graphics only)
-Speed (nvidia graphics only)
-Auto (automatically change from one to the other depending on AC power, hdmi connection)
The Z switchable graphics (like other comparable systems (?)) use a multiplexer to physically switch between graphic chips.

As sony did not release any graphic driver update since Z11 was launched (nvidia 188.80/intel 2021) this thread show you every advances in unofficial hybrid graphics drivers working for the Z.
On the optimus side, just go to this thread were optimus is tested on the Z.
Until now optimus is working on the Z BUT first it is not sure that nvidia chip is really powered down (or at least do not drain power) when unused, second there is a major issue for gamers : a persistent "nvidia optimus experimental" overlay on every 3D applications (don't know precisely when it shows up).

Hope you found what you wanted.

 

that was exactly what I wanted, Thanks again.

 

I just want an updated Nvdia graphics with the latest Intel graphics, that can nicely switch among the two GFX system using the switch. No need for Optimus.

Can this be done without messing things up?

 

See the first page for the latest unofficial hybrid drivers available.
25X.XX series still don't work for hybrid graphics.
You can't update intel drivers independently from nvidia drivers.

 

I've not had time to try it yet. Next step is to see if I can get latest NVIDIA drivers working via the Optimus method.

My original reason for wanting to do this was so I could use GPU encoding in Premiere Pro CS5, the main advantage being that all effects render in real-time when previewing a movie. (There are other advantages too - encoding the movie is much quicker using the GPU). However, my incentive is now somewhat less because I'm now back home and have access to my desktop, which runs a GTX 460+i7. I have to say the performance increase from using the GPU in CS5 is extremely impressive. It's just such a shame that this otherwise brilliant (and expensive) Sony laptop is so hamstrung that it can't be used to its potential other than by hacking.

 

Not even with the supported 189.xx drivers that is really bad!

 

Maybe with the Z13 launching soon, we'll be able to get an updated driver.

 

Ah from Sony you mean? yeah maybe.

 

You'd think sony would provide an update to core drivers every 6m or so. Especially given it's their core selling point (power saving gfx etc). Nice to see they go out of their way to force another purchase. VT-x disabled, gfx drivers never getting an update, bios locked to 4g memory max in some models, custom size SSD to prevent drop in replacements.

 

It would be nice to see sony releasing a new driver with the Z13, but I don't think they will.

 

it worries me a bit that the driver support is SO bad..I fear it might be something that will haunt me if I invest in a vaio Z really soon. hmm...

what do people mostly use? the latest stock drivers or do most fiddle around with custom drivers all the time?

 

don't know for other people, but I use unofficial drivers.

 

Yep, that's correct. Premiere Pro CS5 (for example) cannot use the GPU for rendering on the Z because the drivers don't work. Honestly, it's pathetic and a real reason for just buying less expensive kit that works.

Amusingly, you get the same problem in Premiere Elements 8 that's actually bundled with the Z.

You'd have thought that bundled software not working properly with the Z because you can't update the drivers would be too embarrassing for Sony and they'd fix it. But nope.

 

"not working properly" isn't correct, it's more like "not using the full potential".
But I agree with you, sony should be ashamed for this...

 

You know guys, you can just follow this guide:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/473226-insyde-hacking-new-vaio-z-advanced-menu-bios.html

After unlocking the bios you get access to a special graphics setting in the bios.
When you change that appropriate, you will be able to install the newest drivers, but you will loose the immediate switching function (restart will be required to switch) So the OS thinks you are using a single card.

Enough for me, i dont mind to restart for gaming once.

 

Don't forget if you switch to Nvidia manually via this bios hack you lose all brightness controls.

 

and the power consumption on battery is probably stuffed (I'm sure the other card won't be powered off).

Agreed - better to buy another brand. Even if they don't update drivers, not many other vendors go out of their way to you over like sony does.

 

when you say you lose brightness control, does that mean its on full brightness all the time or?

 

I do find it interesting though that you have the option to overrule the intel gpu... could be very potent.

 

Yes, but you loose the advantage of power saving.

 

I dont need power saving 95% of the time, i would value speed and stability over that any day. Since I will be using it a lot for work if I buy one very soon workarounds are better than no options, thats all im saying.

It is really bad though that the driver support is lacking so hard

 

Yeah, in that case it would great.

I would love in update with the VERDE 256 drivers.

 

The newer 259 drivers are also reported to run a bit cooler on a lot of laptops, those would be nice to be able to use.

blue btw, how do you find the 1920 on the 13" ? too small? do you use the DPI scale in win7 or do you have it at 100%?

 

It's really beautiful, but I have to use the 125% dpi, as its more comfy.
At 100% its stunning and ultra crisp, but prefer the 125%.

Most beautiful screen ever on a laptop.

 

I can't wait to get mine ill be ordering within the next two weeks! just need to decide if its worth waiting 2-4 weeks more for the bump from 2.66 to 2.8 Ghz

 

The thing with the brightness control is simply not true. It works. Using it right now.

[edit]: also the buttons work.

 

Sweet!!

@bommel87 so you use only the nvidia card with the newest off the bat nvidia drivers? any real issues (except for the obvious power saving tools)?

 

Why only Nvidia? You can switch to Intel with a restart of the pc. It only detects the selected switch position at startup, so changing the position in windows does not change anything.

I am wondering about the mentioned powersaving issue, does not feel like it?!
I also dont see why that actually should be? Where is that info from?

nevertheless i am not completely sure about the powersaving. How much power would the nvidia card consume running while doing absolutely nothing?

 

For my laptop:

Idle when only using the Intel GPU = ~10W
On Intel while playing a video = ~18-23W
Idle with the nVidia GPU enabled = ~20W

 

My measure with BatteryBar pro:

only intel(well, thats assumed): 11Watt (no wlan, lowest brightness, all powersavings)

what were your settings?

 

Can't remember. These are numbers I tested from a long time ago. (the 10 and 20 are easy to remember)
Feel free to assume the worse/most misery settings.

Playing some video on nVidia + WLAN + lowest brightness and on Power saver = ~24-29W <- dunno why the fluctuation (could be powermiser, but too lazy to check)
*No DXVA crap being used.

Playing some video on Intel + WLAN + lowest brightness and on Power saver = ~16W
*No DXVA crap being used.

Idle on Intel most power savings + WLAN = ~11W
Idle on nVidia most power savings + WLAN = ~18W

By the way, my battery has 47.6% wear, so these current readings might be off.

 

But omg! it actually works! you can overrule the intel gpu completely!! yes!! I love it!! at least there is an option!

 

using 189.92/2104 hybrid graphics drivers :

intel on idle : 8-9W (wlan on, bluetooth on, internet browser on, 50% brightness, 40Hz screen refresh rate)

 

Can you still use the Intel GPU if you flip the switch and restart?

 

Would be happy if somebody different could try the same to gain some more insight.

For now i had no issue at all. But who knows if there is something in the wind.

[edit]: jeah, i can use intel then. no problem at all.

 

Ive tried this and it works. But the results in 3d mark vantage 2010 are the same as the results with original drivers.
Why is it so?
GPU has only 18XX score

 

So what do I need to do this? Do the bios hack and set it to the Nvdia only?

 

I am getting closer and closer to doing this bios hack as I don't think Sony will ever update the display drivers for the VPC-Z11 so may as well disable the Intel card completely and stick with the Nvidia.

How much would battery life suffer? hmm

 

daleski75, download BatteryBar and compare the instantaneous 'Discharge Rate' reading when on nVidia and then when on Intel. From the numbers, say nVidia is 20W and Intel is 10W, then when using the Intel GPU, the battery will last up to twice as long.

 

Will give that a go not that I ever run on battery much anyway and thanks for the heads up

 

I agree, it is very very viable for me too be able to skip the intel card and get the speeds and accelerations from the nvidia card with the newest drivers.

But what I wonder is if we look past the lack of support for CS5 is the hybrid drivers actually slower in like games and other stuff compared to the newer 2xx drivers?

 

alright this is only my feelings, but i will share it, and let you all discuss it...

Acer is going to launch its Aspire 5745DG with Nvidia GT 425M
as i can see all the previous 5745 series all support hybrid graphic
and of course 425M is the latest nvidia graphic card that only launch after 256 drivers out, so there is very high chance that we can see new 260.xx with 2189.

 

I like that theory a lot... I hope you are right.

 

At the risk of sounding like a tard:
How do I get the bloody thing to boot from a USB device? I changed the boot order to be external devices first (and I enabled them in the checkbox above), but regardless of whether I try using an external USB HDD, a USB stick, the built-in memory card reader etc.... none of them seem to be bootable.
This is using UNetbootin to set up the media btw.

Given that there are virtually no settings in that BIOS when compared to other ones, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong... is there anything stupid I'm overlooking? Is there a way to remove the internal HDD from the bootable device list?

May also be worth mentioning that I'm on BIOS R2074C3.
Ta!
Jan

 

hmm, is your usb flashdisk bootable?

bios R3030C3 is the latest available


Edit:
vpc z can't use 197.72 with 2141 modified from alienware m11x

edit2:
looking forward to 259.12

edit3:
259.12 for Acer Aspire 5745Z with 420M graphic doesn't contain any Intel Driver...

 

I am waiting for Intel to release newer drivers first before modding again as I think until this happens it will be very hard to get anything working properly.

 

That has sort of been my issue too Daleski75. I really think the key in this all working properly is with Intel. As far as I can tell it is an Intel driver issue rather than an Nvidia one.

BTW looking at some of the debug stuff included with the windows update drivers I see references to both MobileIntelHybrid and MobileAddinIntelHybrid directories. The MobileAddinIntelHybrid directory includes references to GfxUI.exe (the newer GUI included in the drivers above 2020) while MobileIntelHybrid includes references to igfxcfg.exe (the old Intel Control Panel GUI). So it seems Nvidia may even be keeping the Intel drivers separate for the Intel GMA4500M and Intel HD Hybrid Graphics notebooks.

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Andrew08 in that case the Acer Aspire 5745Z seems to be Optimus. It is a pain figuring out which notebooks contain Hybrid Graphics vs Optimus because all of the terms to describe switchable graphics are used loosely. Switchable Graphics, Hybrid Graphics, Optimus.

Nvidia Switchable Graphics - 1st Gen (used in Vaio SZ)
Nvidia Hybrid Graphics - 2nd Gen (used in Vaio Z)
Nvidia Optimus - 3rd Gen (used on Alienware M11xR2)

So form a technical standpoint they are all "switchable graphics" technologies and "hybrid" graphics. Some reviewers and OEMs use the term "hybrid" graphics as the use of two GPUs one to save power and one for performance. Our first assumption of course is that when we see the term hybrid graphics used in reference to a notebook with an nvidia and intel gpu that they are referring to the 2nd generation technology rather than just the use of two gpus. It really becomes a pain because half the time I find myself having to download the drivers to see if Intel drivers are included or not to determine if the notebook is using "Hybrid Graphics" or "Optimus".

My rule of thumb is Intel drivers included in the package = Hybrid Graphics. No Intel drivers included in the package = Optimus.

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I have been testing the 260 series that has been leaked. So far from a driver standpoint they are pretty much the same as the 256+ series. I am noticing many of the same issues/problems between the series. One notable addition however is that they seem to have added a detection routine in the installer for the Intel hardware ID and allow the installer to utilize a different INF. The only two ways I can see this being used are to either make the installer detect hybrid graphics and utilize the proper inf (in a driver package with both standard and hybrid graphics drivers) or to point to a separate INF for the Intel graphics drivers (much like my separates idea). Either way it is a curious addition IMHO. The new installer seems to be based on a much more modular concept so Nvidia may be intending for OEMs to separate the Intel drivers into their own module and install the drivers that way.

I am waiting until the rumored 260 series drivers officially release (rumor now is monday) before I post a new package for testing.

 

Nautis, you mentioned before that we can update driver separately, if i remember correctly, my brother is using hybrid graphic notebook intel hd + amd 5470, he installed intel first than amd driver and you can switch it by using right click menu, can we use this way for nvidia?

intel 2189 first, 258.96 second...?

 

I cant speak on ATI/AMDs implementation of switchable graphics because I have had no personal interaction with it. Nvidia Hybrid Graphics utilizes the nvidia kernel mode driver in place of the Intel one, so it really shouldn't matter what order they are installed in. This replacement of the kernel mode driver is the primary reason the Nvidia and Intel drivers are packaged together.

To further explain what I mean we need to take a look at the Intel section of Hybrid Graphics drivers and compare it to the standard implementation.
Note: There are really only three things that are happening on the Intel side that are important. The first is the disabling of the coinstallers and the second is the replacement of the kernel mode driver and the third is the changing of the GUID to the interposers GUID. The important section for my explanation here is the kernel mode driver section and its changes.

Standard Intel vs Nvidia Hybrid Graphics Implementation
Standard Intel - Kernel Mode Driver (Service)	[iCNT0.Services] AddService = igfx, 0x00000002, igfx_Service_Inst [igfx_Service_Inst] ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER StartType = 3 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START ErrorControl = 0 ; SERVICE_ERROR_IGNORE LoadOrderGroup = Video ServiceBinary = %12%\igdkmd64.sys
Hybrid Graphics Intel - Kernel Mode Driver (Service)	[iCNT0.Services] AddService = nvlddmkm, 0x00000002, igfx_Service_Inst [igfx_Service_Inst] ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER StartType = 3 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START ErrorControl = 0 ; SERVICE_ERROR_IGNORE LoadOrderGroup = Video ServiceBinary = %12%\nvlddmkm.sys
Color Key - Green = Before, Red = After, Blue = Section Reference

So you see Hybrid Graphics relies on the nvlddmkm.sys in order to install both the Intel and Nvidia drivers. The order does not matter because the Nvidia kernel mode driver is used in both cases.

 

so our main problem is the nvlddmkm.sys that 256 drivers use is not mean for 189.99 for nvidia/intel hd? If it is so why not we use the nvlddmkm.sys for 189.99... but i tried this before and resulting in error... maybe i need some hex work...