New Sony Vaio Z speculation/news thread

so we have an ultraportable with a full voltage processor and no dedicated gpu.. like the samsung 9 series.. which starts at $1600

assuming that the new z starts at the lowest possible price of 1900, then is that external component worth the $300+? so far, the external component seems like an inconvenience =/

wonder why they didn't just put a dedicated gpu inside the main case, definitely dont mind the optical drive being separate though

 

The future VAIO SA, which is for me the true substitute of the current Z, is supposed to reach 2.799$ ( Sony Insider Sony VAIO SA and SB Series Details Pop up).
So I suppose that the future Z which is higher end would cost more... but I hope I'm wrong...

 

the samsung 9 uses a ulv processor

 

i read that it has the option of ulv and full voltage

 

did you mean 320 GB?

please cite your source

 

^Well, yes. Yes I did. Sorry for the typo/confusion.

It would be nice if Sony would offer a size upgrade over 256GB that's not quite as hideously expensive as going to 512.

 

when is the speculation of release?
or has it already been released?

 

The speculation is late June/early July. But we don't know for sure at this point.

 

i actually also found it strange that the samsung 9 series would have a full voltage processor, so i rechecked the source and it definitely said that it's available with both low voltage and full voltage options

however, now that i tried to find it again, i can't, so i'm guessing it was a mistake

so, i guess that leaves us with the x220 and new z, whereas the x220 is half the z's price... and features an IPS panel.. also has carbon fiber, and is even smaller (i would assume) in volume, since it's a 12.5 inch notebook... i don't see what the new z has going for it now that it doesn't have a dedicated gpu that is integrated into the main body.. at least not to warrant double the price

 

Does anyone have feedback on whether it is crazy to buy a refurbished Z? If not, would you buy it from directly from Sony or some other site? I await you collective and individual wisdom.

 

There is already a thread on this topic, so I suggest you check it out. I created that thread, and will summarize my experience in answer to your question with a post I will create shortly.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/565131-i-bought-z-11-refurb-good-move-not.html

 

Thanks! My apologies for the digression. And good luck increasing your Rep Power.

 

Or it could be the same size as the new Z... I mean look at the SB... that HUGE bezel was definitely an eyesore to me... (MBP's also have a huge bezel too). If the x220 has a large bezel (thinkpads are built rugged...) then it might be the same size as the Z. Also as for volume... from what we're hearing of the thinness of the new Z, i'd have to put money on the new Z being smaller in volume.

 

The x220 is heavier and doesn't come with the external gpu. And I'm guessing (hoping) the Z will be more stylish.

 

If you meant that in earnest, thanks, but I'm really, really, really over it. If you said it as a dig, may you be plagued by broken, overpriced used computers the rest of your days! (Got no rep to protect, lol )

 

Really sorry for the post on top of post, but I had to get that (previous post) out of my system

So, I finally got to read this entire thread - having only become an accidental Z11 (refurb) owner 10 days ago coz it was $855 and I couldn't resist it at that price and it turned out to be truly good as new and I am still on a major honeymoon.

After reading through the whole thing to truly grasp the whole multi-part concept and figure out what the value proposition of the new Z was going to be, I have to say that I am scratching my head over who thought the current formula needed to be radically altered and, more importantly, why? Let's see, the concept of a sleek, very light, fast/very fast, playable graphics, gorgeous screen, snob-appeal, DTR-equivalent with 5+ hrs battery life with a 6 cell, 7+ with a 9 (ugh, 4 whole lbs for a day's use off the grid ), with a loss-leader retail price as low as $1,600 with many paying twice that or more (really, really helps those profit margins, better even than Apple's ) - again, who thought that was a formula that needed to be radically altered, particularly when the number of viable competitors in the market = 0 ?

I mean, call me crazy (most people do), but why not the same formula made faster, better batt life and better integ gpu via SB cpu, upgrade the discrete gpu in keeping with limited volume for cooling (or drop the ODD and shoot for more), add a USB3 and a DVI, make it a sleeker-yet design (but don't aim for MBA-you don't need to), keep the RAM user-upgradeable, lower the price a bit for the SSDs (in keeping w/the mkt prices of NAND)...what am I missing here...no, I think that does it: pack it in a fancier box, stick with the NC earbuds, and keep the Z13 price points and prepare to sell even more than you sold last year because word has gotten around and truly no competition has emerged. I can easily argue the case against MBA, Samsung 9 and definitely the X220 taking mkt share from the Z because their styling, performance and appeal are, well, apples and oranges vs. the Z. Notice that almost all mentions in this thread of the X220 were of the sort: "if they're going to hack up the new Z like that, I'll probably get an X220?" That to me tells the whole story, which is: "if you mess with this nearly perfect formula, I'll start looking at 'road warrior' machines that look like military hardware and save me money, even though I gladly paid double for the exclusivity and compactness of the predecessors, (or I'll suddenly decide I really need my computer to be thinner than my cell phone, and don't really care about its power!)"

Or have I gotten it all wrong, and were most Z buyers really 20 year olds (no offense to those who are, btw) who kinda wished they'd gotten an Alienware instead, and will just love the fact that they can bring their 3-pc Z to the next lan party and maybe even run it from batteries?

Oh and, as ever, sorry for the ridiculous length of my posts; I really miss having an editor to turn my novels into magazine articles, and my magazine articles into, well, blog posts, lol.

 

I agree. I have also been curious about these external GPU's. I dont think we are going to see a flood of them anytime soon.

Thin and light is nice and all, but I rather have it all in one. To me, the current Z is still the best blended laptop on the market.

Hell, with the bios mod and the Crysis 2 settings manager application, I can play it fine and smooth @ 1280x720 on high settings.

Sony figured out how selling acessories after the fact is a lucrative business. Although, most consumers will not find it appealing at all. I can see the reviews bashing it already for this new awesome feature.

 

here is the deal when do you use your gpu intensively, so intensively that your igpu wouldnt handle the task?

In this scenario are you going to use it on batteries?

 

I can only suggest to you that Sony's strategy was to identify that most people now want something like the MBA 13" rather than the MBP 13", in terms of their main high end competition (IMO of course).

The VPC-Z has been split into two high end machines, 1) the SA, that has hybrid graphics, CF construction and ODD on board, and 2) the new new Z, which takes on the Sammy 9 and MBA.

Without this, Sony had no answer to the Air.

The Z is and always has been aimed as business executive types. It's not for gaming or for watching Blu-ray movies on the go. To someone like me, who never does either of those things, the new much lighter Z concept is exactly what I have been hoping to see.

Having owned Sony's flagship series from SZ to Z to Z, if they had still kept on with the ODD I would currently be readying my purchase of a Samsung 9 Series.

Why are you not interested in the SA? it's carbon fibre, it has and ODD and hybrid graphics? it's pretty sleek depending on your tastes (most think the bezel is too big), and it's got Sandybridge.

I think that if they had called the SA series the ZA and then given this new Z replacement a different code like Q series, then things might be perceived differently.

 

Generally I'm always lusting after the latest iteration of whatever technology, but I can happily say that I'm glad I have the Z13 and for now am not really enticed at the concept of the next gen Z.

Honestly, I was kind of wary for ordering the Z13 last October thinking that a new announcement would be made at CES in January, but I really needed a new computer then. Now I don't look back on that decision with regret.


IMHO, the direction Sony should have gone is to not make an SA at all. It's too similar to the SB. Instead, they should have done a redesign to the Z with the same surface area dimensions. The SA is larger than the Z which is probably a negative to most. Then to compete with the MBA they should have further developed the X, or just make a Z without the optical drive (both will probably end up being quite similar). Oh well, one can only wish.

 

I agree with you GenericSN, but i guess Sony was simply not able to put Sandy bridge and a new AMD graphics in a small unit like the Z.
To move on, sadly, they have probably decided to change case (->SA series) or make a bi-unit laptop (new Z).

There is a reason why SA is NOT a Z. It may replace it in some ways but it is not a Z.

Personnally i would rather grab a Z13, since i7 640m is about same in performances as the new Sandy i7-2620m, but i like the professionnal design which SB has not, and graphics are included, and i need it all the time for work.

 

Good points, all. But I don't get the same sense of luxury about the SA and I would expect it to feel slower without the Raid-0 SSDs even with a SB cpu, and if I have my figures right it weighs about 4 lbs, almost 1 lb (33%) more than the Z. Most important for me, though, is screen quality, and between the resolution (720p vs. 900 on my Z) and the brightness/contrast/color gamut, the screens are in a totally different league. For me, the only pros I see for the S vs the current Z are battery life, integrated graphics quality and what appears to be more sturdy construction - though I don't think the S is anywhere near the league of a business class Thinkpad, or HP Elitebook.

If I didn't already own my Z, and couldn't get a good close out or refurbed one, I would probably look elsewhere, in search of a better display and SSDs for the expected $1,600-$2,000 price of admission, well equipped. No knock on the S, but I see it as something of a Z "pretender;" it looks the part and has very good performance potential, but I find the present Z has all the performance I need in a far more appealing package overall.

As for the MBA/Sam9 form factor, I have used the MBA 13 extensively and am not blown away by it at all: it's way too weak, the screen is good, but still doesn't match the Z's, you can't upgrade memory at all and the largest config you can get is 4GB and the largest SSD capacity is 256 GB and there's no adding an additional SSD/HDD as you can by removing the ODD in the Z. Then there's the very limited ports, low battery life on Windows (3-4 hrs, can't carry a spare) and limited functionality of the clickpad on Windows as well. The two "wow" aspects of the MBA - instant on and thin as a razor get old fairly quickly - when comparing to a machine that powers on as fast as the Z and is all of 0.3 lb heavier. Oh, and then there's the non-lit keyboard. Same comments for the Sammy, though I think the performance gap - still huge - is less than for the current MBA and it has a backlit keyboard and a couple more ports, notably usb3.

I can understand Sony wanting to play in the "slim jim" market (MBA/Sam9), but I don't think they should have killed the Z brand cache, but rather gave it a new letter (if there are any left in the alphabet, lol) and do a great job with a refreshed Z. I would keep the S line as well, but not position it as the Z replacement, just a bit heavier, slower (lack of SSDs in Raid), less luxurious option at a lower price point.

 

So reading your dislikes after owning the MBA 13", it sounds to me like the new Z will be your dream machine!

There is a lot of speculation in my answers here, but look at it blow-by-blow:

 

Drvec the new Z has to be carried with its additionnal box...
And many times you will be plugin and unplugin this thing just to move your computer here and there, it CAN be done but it is not as nice and appealing as having it all in the same unit. It is not practical.

In other words, buying new Z would make me feel like buying a laptop that will get old in a year, when they replace it by a brand new All-in-One rockin'Z !

I think that the all-in-one powerhouse type, combined with screen quality, build quality and professionnal design is what makes it exceptionnal...

 

Because the graphic dedicated module is not included in the main unit.
If you need gfx on the go (for exemple for design, archtecture, CATIA type of softwares etc) you need the additionnal unit...

Isnt it better to get an X or MBA 11,6 plus a powerfull 17" laptop then...?

 

design, archtecture, CATIA type of softwares etc) on a 13inch ultraportable? not enough people do that do warrent sony designing a computer for them.

people who do that kind of work in a portable environment get 17inch laptops, because screen size is important for design obviously.

 

SA will weigh approx 3.2lbs. The new Z with added external box will weigh close to 4lbs. The SA will also come with RAID drive preconfig options. The SB/SD already offers this. It will also come with a 1600x900 panel, much higher than is offered on most laptops and if you're interested in this model we can only but hope that it will come with a premium display.

I would have liked to have seen Sony continue with the TT/X line but get rid of that atom.

Still though i think Sony all the bases pretty covered well. I prefer the specs of the SA and some will prefer the Z and the choice is there- I just wish they would get these things out sooner.

 

Daniel, i do and need it and i doubt that you know how people do.

By the way if you were right, then the additionnal unit would be totally useless. If there is an external graphic device it is to be used on the go : at home most have a desktop with confortable screen, keyboard... And for an external display, additionnal graphic devices already exist.

The aim of new Z is a very very light computer offering sometimes to Play games on the go. But as i need graphics very often, even when travelling, work in aircrafts and so on i'd rather get a very light all in one computer and the old Z is better suit.

I am confident that the future of ultra light laptops is not in separate units, but in a MacBook air form factor with everything in it (graphics, interfaces, full HD, powerfull CPU...) with high battery capacity, but not in a fake way to build a semi-weak castrated computer with additionnal devices.

 

Drvec,

You do great analysis and I agree with all of your points on this one. In short, the new Z, on its own, does sound like it will be considerably better than the MBA (even a new one rumored for June) and the Sammy 9. I guess what you're saying is that neither the discrete gpu nor the on board DVD/Blu ray drive are needed by most Z users and a thinner, lighter machine that keeps all of the current Z's virtues and loses weight, girth and energy use is the way to go, especially since the comp has put down a gauntlet on that format. And yes, it would probably more than meet my needs because I too rarely use it on discrete gfx and rarely use an ODD any more, though I do question if that is true of most Z buyers, especially using the discrete gfx. Truth be told, even the current Intel GMA HD is powerful enough for HD video. But the SB Intel 3000 gpu is half as fast as the Z's present gpu, which I'm sure would increase by at least 50% if they built it in-chassis, so they will lose that portion of the market, though I have no idea if their research shows it's too small to worry about - I have my doubts, from a business point of view. But, seeing how the IT media (for which I have little respect, but they do influence purchase decisions) have gushed over the MBA and S9, and have said, in essence, this is where the market is going, Sony not only had to have an answer for them, but needed one that was materially better and that gives you the new Z (minus the gfx box) as presently conceived. Imo, again, as a business decision, I do still think that Sony should still make a version that includes a blu ray burner (at a less absurd price) and hybrid gfx because I don't think it would cost much to design and I think a significant number of people will still want that and will see the new Z as I initially did - no more DTR in a classy, flyweight chassis, just a me-too but mine is better, and costs $1,000 more, likely, for the MBA market.

Let it not be said that I am stubborn about my opinions - but let it be said that it takes a damn good analyst to convince me +1 rep for you!

 

Sorry, but I read 1.8 kg for the SA's weight (4 lbs) and did not see that a 1600 X 900 panel is going to be an option, nor any specifics on other screen attributes, which are as important as res. or more so; can you possibly give me a link to a better description of the SA than I have found? Based on what you are saying, the SA IS the Z with a new cpu and gpu, yet even Sony doesn't seem to be that presumptuous in its announcements (nor by its decision not to include the Z branding on this machine.) Are you sure you are right about all these specs? Is there any aspect of a tricked out SA that falls short at all of today's Z?

 

These posts are from the SA thread.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/7091840-post495.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/7091858-post496.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/7032124-post77.html
There were some sightings but because of delays caused by build issues it's disappeared from the net, hopefully to resurface sometime in May or June.

 

I don't understand that view. The new Z, depending on config, could easily be double or triple the price of those machines, maybe more and have capabilities they don't have.

Given that, I don't really see that it's a direct competitor. From what I've read here and knowing hot the old Zs were priced, the new Z seems like it will exist in its own space and not compete with any machine currently or soon to be on the market. beaups can indicate if I've got the business model wrong.

 

hmmm.... 12" is already fine. We'll just scroll-zoom it. No matter what size the screen is we'll be zooming in/out all day anyways
(Now i use a 13 with more pixels and it's better.)
(When at a desk we of course will just plug in a much larger monitor.)
bye

 

yeah the consumer Nvidia (330M) is plenty good/usable enough - we can happily rotate/flip things all day and it's pretty responsive/smooth. The older on-board GM45 video stuff was absolutely way-too-lame for 3D but plenty great for 2D CAD stuff. Not sure about the S/B's on-board video yet but I hope it's ~10 or 20 times better than the GM45 to be usable for 3D stuff. bye.

 

I wonder if SONY will use an IPS or PVA panel in the new Z considering the new F 3D uses an IPS/PVA panel.
Most probably it is a PVA panel in the F2 since SONY has rarely, if ever, used an IPS panel in any of their products.

 

Vaio Phil already replied and i agree with his comments. I will just add that dedicated memory is actually very important for such softwares; the HD3000 won't do it.

I agree that i could bring my device and plug it in the Z, but i'd rather have all inside it. If Sony is taking this path i think it might be interesting if they put a very high end GPU inside (HD 6970 or 6990 inside for example ).

 

Thank you so much for this incredibly responsive and informative set of links. Also, I apologize for even the hint of a suggestion that you may not have your facts correct! I really meant to ask if there has been the usual amount of secretiveness and rumoring to leave doubt as to the credibility of publicly available descriptions.

Now I totally get the whole picture in terms of Sony's product evolution in the "luxury" space; I really tried to by reading the threads all the way through, but sometimes it's hard to sift through rumor vs. fact and it is so helpful if a member does what you just did to help get a noob (with Sony products) get up to speed. BTW, to say I finally "get it" is not to say the business model makes sense to me. I am pretty much with Louche (a few posts back) on the subject: too much fragmentation and too high price points to be as competitive as they could be. I'm new to Sony, but it seems like they just have way too many products out there - up and down their notebook lines, not just in the luxury space - many overlapping and with unclear differentiation. May serve to pump up overall sales volume, but makes customer migration (up and across product line) more challenging than it should be - IMHO, I must add, because these are all superficial observations without depth of knowledge of this brand. Marketing 101 says understanding consumer product lines should not take so much work, though.

Tell you where it all leaves me: incredibly grateful I was able to join this very exclusive "club" at such a low cost of entry. I prefer variety of sizes and specialties in my notebook collection to putting all my available resources into one machine. My sig. is but a sampling of the 6 notebooks/tablets I own, but by buying right I spent less for the 6 than many spent for their VPC-Z! But if I could only own one, this would surely be it. I plan on holding on to my Z11 for dear life and nurturing it, improving it and getting the most use out of it that its core technology and physical durability will permit. Other than more storage space (which I will attend to in good time), there is absolutely nothing about this marvelous piece of work that I am likely to need to upgrade for at least two years, and after that I think it will still be a great computer to hand-down to a less demanding family member or friend, as you would an older, well-cared-for Mercedes or BMW.

Thanks again.

 

Meant in earnest. No digs. Still, I always expect plagues.

 

Seems you would know better than I, but newest battery technology enabling 15-20 hrs with a slice using Intel 3000 should enable half that or better using a discrete gpu, and that would be more than sufficient for a coast-to-coast plane flight running all-discrete graphics. No?

 

And now I feel really bad. But, wouldn't it be creepy to really be so obsessed with improving one's rep numbers on a computer blog? That's why I assumed you thought I was being a jerk about it and was calling me out on it. Sorry.

Did you find the refurb thread helpful?

 

It's not that I think the Z will be "too" anything, just that I don't think there will really be a directly comparable product on market. I didn't intend to give the impression that I was being judgemental regarding Sony's design and pricing strategy.

When all the 2011 models are on the market, I expect the MBA, SA and Z to each occupy their own space. I doubt that there will be that many people uncertain which of those three to get, whether based on capabilities, price or other factor.

 

Has the GPU been discussed/leaked, in the new Z ?
Wondering... Because as it is in an external device, i guess there is no real limit in power, and in this case it will become indeed interesting...

 

It has quite at the beginning of the threat. It is supposed to be an ATI Radeon Whistler XT which can be a HD6730M or HD6770M.

 

I wonder how it will get powered, there is a limit to what the thunderbolt can provide, is there going to be a separate psu for it? if it will, then I wont make sense to get a such a lowly card, a 6970m would be much better

 

Given that the 15in MBP comes with a 6750, I would hope for better from Sony. Yes, I know they are not comparable but the MBPs aren't known for their high end specs in general so I'd expect Sony to do better for an external GPU unit.

 

No problem. Text has no tone, so how could you know?

The thread was helpful in that it prepared me a bit. A cautionary tale. As I suspected, I can see that it can be a great bargain to get a refub or a pain. Sounds like you went the distance to help someone, even though yours was perfect. That is commendable. I bow to you. If I have trouble you definitely have a position as my negotiator.

I was considering getting a refurbished Z through Sony on the theory that they are more likely to stand by the product. Not as much savings but, hopefully a good result. I've been waiting a long time for just the right configuration and am prepared to continue to proceed carefully. I have a lappie from work that I can use until I find something that will last me a long time. So, in theory at least, I could wait for this new Z to be released and pick up one as they refurbish. If anyone has experience or input about buying like this directly from Sony, I'd appreciate the wisdom. They are a substantial investment.

 

13" MBP got a 6750? Mustve missed that.

 

Glad we're square As for getting the refurb from Sony, my comment about Sony tech support stands (until the Sony-ites from this thread say otherwise) that having Sony to "stand behind" the product is not all it's cracked up to be. And I believe you still have to pay Sony or someone like Square Trade to get a warranty longer than 90 days on a refurb, whether purchased at the Sony Outlet or elsewhere. And unfortunately there are more refurbs available for sale when a product is in current production because most of them are units returned to retailers (or mfr/sellers like Sony) within the 14-30 day period normally allowed. Then some 30-60 days later they pop out of the refurb sellers. Unfortunately, if Sony and their retailers have mostly liquidated their Z11-13 inventories, your buying opportunities will be mostly found as used items on eBay. But the Microsoft store is still selling them for $1,599 new - and apparently Cheetahdeals.com has been buying the MS stores' returns and refurbing them, which is how I got mine 2 weeks ago for $855. So, stay loose and connected to all the "deal" sites and be ready to move quickly.

 

Not to be a wise-, but he said the 15 in MBP, not 13.

 

Really? I thought most assume the Sa9 is aimed directly at the MBA. My concern for Sony is that the new Z's appearance will cause it to be perceived by consumers as the third major player in the ultra-thin/light/fast market but with the added performance costing double or more the other two's price and the value proposition may not be apparent.