New Sony Vaio Z speculation/news thread

computercow, would there be driver comflict with using vidock 4+ on vaio z?Village comfirm with you that vidock 4+ will works on a vaio z running 2560x1600 monitor?

 

Hadn't seen this yet, thanks. Some great photos there, they give you a very good idea of the relative size of the new Z and the dock, sheet battery etc. When you step back a bit and look at it with fresh eyes, the new Z with the sheet battery attached is almost the same size and weight of my old SZ except with an amazing 16 hour battery life... awesome!

 

Easier way of putting it (since, AFAIK, I have already stated this before in this thread )


THERE IS NO SUCH THING (in practice) AS A HDMI-->DL-DVI CABLE. The second TDMS clock doesn't come out of thin air. HDMI has a DL spec, but no one uses it, since it requires a different plug design alltogether.

A few notes:

HDMI 1.3 and beyond does indeed support 2560x1600 @ 60Hz.

Intel support HDMI 1.4, however, also selectively doesn't support high TDMS clocks, therein limiting the max resolution of Intel IGP over HDMI to 1920x1200 (if you think this is funny, AMD doesn't support full HDMI 1.4 spec in their GPU, either)

Few monitors above 1920x1200 resolution support highly clocked TDMS links, making HDMI effectively limited to 1920x1200, even for 2560x1*** monitors that support HDMI (including the Dell U2711&U3011)

DL-DVI supports 2560x1600, because it has two TDMS clocks, that provide, effectively, double the bandwidth of one TDMS clocked link.

HDMI gets around that limitation in later revisions by simply clocking the TDMS link at twice the speed. As the DVI consortium is long dead, DVI is not updated to support this specification.


[for this gen...]
AMD only support 1920x1200 over HDMI (1.4a) [Cayman]
nVidia doesn't clearly state what they support on *just* the HDMI link. [GF110] It does imply HDMI is included in this figure, however (legal wording still allows for a lower max HDMI resolution support)

AMD and nVidia support 2560x1600 on at least:
DisplayPort and DL-DVI




Which is why there is this ruckus on the HDMI port being the only output on the PMD. I guess Powerstrip might be able to force a custom resolution that supports this, though I dunno if that has any negative effects.

 

So the HDMI>DL-DVI is useless without the proper HDMI port. Interesting, the cable itself should be good though. For example I have two DL-DVI > HDMI adapters, if I was to put one on a DELL ultrasharp and the other on a computer with a DL-DVI port I would be able to run an HDMI 1.3+ cable in between. I get what you are saying though. I know that the HDMI jacks on the Ultrasharps don't support high res. I am gathering that the HDMI jacks on most computers would also not support that res. Furthermore you are saying that even if the HDMI out on the computer did support that res there would need to be some sort of active converter due to a different number of TDMS clocks or something like that.

Long story short,
Z2 = no hope for WQXGA
Z1 = might support WQXGA with standard dock and Dual Link cable
Z1 + ViDock = supports all sorts of crazy crap, but ViDocks are a pain in the butt to configure and use

I had always heard that HDMI > DL-DVI might not work but I never new why. Seems the TDMS links are the issue, thank you for clarifying. +1rep

Why would there be a driver conflict? Because of the 330M? If that is the case I can disable it completely at boot, with the tri-switch, since I have the BIOS hack. Village is not saying that the ViDock will definitely work with the Z1, they are also not guaranteeing that any specific resolution is supported. Village is saying that a ViDock 4+ has the power required to run a GTX570.
I am assuming that:
1) ViDock will work with Z1
2) ViDock + Z1 will drive any resolution that the card supports

 

So, let's see how the Z compares with the new MBA (higher-end configuration):

Weight: 2.96 lbs --over a third of a pound heavier.

Processor: 1.7 GHz dual-core Core i5 -- ULV chip, significantly slower

Graphics: Intel HD 3000 -- Same but without the desk-bound 6650 option

RAM: 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 -- same but can't be expanded to 6 or 8GB

HDD: 256GB SSD -- same as some Z configs, higher than others but can't be expanded to 512GB

Display Resolution: 1440x900 -- Lower than the Z and a non-standard ratio

Ports: Thunderbolt, 2x USB 2.0, SDHC slot, composite audio in/out jack -- standard TB is a plus, lack of USB is a minus

Price: $1600 -- Beats the Z

Overall: MBA re-refreshed is a more affordable but less capable ultralight. Not a true Z competitor but will be just right for buyers.

 

Computercowboy, your other options are:

HP 2560p
Thinkpad x220



S

 

actually, the 13" model always had the 1440x900 option (dunno if it was an option, or the only configuration for the 13" MBA). 16:10 is a standard for PC monitors. It was more popular when PC widescreen monitors were still high priced professional grade equipment, rather than the consumer stuff we see today.

However, it uses an ULV chip, which means lower IGP base clock (along with lower IGP turbo clock), along with a generally lower base CPU clock speed (with an insane turbo boost bin to counteract that). So it will be in a different performance class vs the Z, not the mention the price for the Z2 always includes (so far), the PMD. Only thing hugging the Z2 down IMO, is the lack of a DP output (or at least DL-DVI).

 

The HP 2560p has a smaller screen in about a pound heavier. The same is true for x220 which still has a mechanical HDD not to much a lower res display than the MBA. Neither is a true Z competitor.

Note: I corrected the comment on the MBA display.

 

If DP is important to you, then the MBA is up a notch on that. For me, I'm not sure what I would do with it. I'm not looking to connect the Z to an external monitor although many people want/need that capability.

 

As for graphics, you're wrong: HD3000 in ULV cpu is slower then what you find in non LV CPUs due to a difference in clock.

 

Fair point. A definite plus for the Z.

 

I'll still note the lower IGP base and turbo clocks for ULV, however, the Air is cheaper, so I won't hag on that one a lot {EDIT: ninja'd!!]

I dunno if the Z2 has both ram sticks removeable, but if it does, it will only push the IGP performance disparity even further (as 1600MHz DDR3 boosts the IGP performance a fair bit over stock 1333 RAM).


As for competitors, I guess the Sammy 9 series?
Features and Specifications - Samsung Series 9 Notebook | Samsung Office

1600usd, is avalible in Taiwan, at least (since I am here).

I'm going to bet on a 1366x768 display due to the wording, so not a real competitor, just a lower priced alternative with it's lower priced return.

 

I don't like either of those. There are some nice features of the X220 and while I have recommended them to people, it is not something I want for myself. You can't step down from 1080P, just can't do it. I wouldn't touch an HP computer with someone else's hands.

Here is the deal, I don't need a new computer. I want the Z2 because I have a VAIO fetish. As far as running high end displays, I will probably go with the ViDock on the Z1 to get the job done.

There is no upgrade from the Z1 IMHO, the Z2 doesn't offer anything more it just trims half a pound. Worth another $3K of my not so hard earned money, probably not.

Exactly, no one does it like Sony. The only other computers that I've really liked in the past were also Japanese, there was a nice Toshiba ultralight I liked in '07 (I think it was an R500 I got for a client) and I liked the Fujistu LOOX u2010 (even though it was under-powered with the whimpy atom). Still neither of them compare to the VAIOs.

That is my main issue.

There will eventually be USB 3 DisplayLink adapters capable of WQXGA, nothing has been released yet, but it is in the future. Not the best option but if you are like me, and you are only concerned with screen real estate for boring apps like Visual Studio and SQL Server Management Studio, then the DisplayLink WQXGA on USB3 might just be the ticket on the Z2

 

As far as ULV options go the new Travelmate 8481 looks awful nice....

Acer TravelMate 8481 lands late August, £700 price tag in tow -- Engadget

 

And the ASUS UX21... and basically any other "Intel Ultrabook" as detailed a while ago with Intel's MBA-esque reference platform with an ULV CPU, slim frame, and SSD.

In other words, only Sony and Samsung had the cajones to break the mold and punch in a real laptop CPU, and not merely an overpowered netbook processor.

 

That says it all right there.

Ha!

 

I take back what I said about Samsung earlier. They are actually in with the ball-less crowd using their ULV i5 selection.

Only Sony, I guess. All is well again

 

^ Such was my point.

 

You mean "Oxymoron".

 

Just a few points to be made. The high end configuration (both 11 and 13 inchers) can be equipped with a 1.8ghz i7 ULV for $150 and $100 respectively.

The MBA uses SSD sticks which are sort of like RAM sticks. In theory, it is possible to upgrade these sticks in the future, just like how you can upgrade a lower configuration (128gb for example) to 256gb.

It's an SDXC slot, and I'm pretty sure it was an SDXC slot in the last gen as well. But the dumb thing about Apple's SD slots is that the SD card sticks halfway out when it's in the computer. This negates the ability to leave an SD card in the computer to expand storage capacity. +2 for the VAIO because you get a proper SD slot AND a Memory Stick slot (right now the largest card is 32GB for memory stick pro duo).

For point 4 refer back to point 1 about the processors. The cost of the computer is now $1700.

 

sony also has sheet battery option too

 

Ok, you upgrade the processor and still get a far slower processor and slower graphics. And, maybe, you can increase SDD down the road. You're still stuck with only 4GB RAM to go with your slow processor and lower res display.

What remains unchanged is that the MBA is a far less capable machine than the Z, albeit a less expensive one.

 

But with the difference between 128GB and 256GB ... if you compare z with 256GB the difference in price becomes huge.

 

True but the Z runs the storage in RAID 0. Last I checked it gets ~ 500 MB read/write (don't quote me on that, I'm expecting somebody to provide a correction).

Though I hear that the new MBA may be doing something similar to get ~400 MB read/ write to their SSD array.

 

Depending on how you configure the Z and your budget, the price difference between the MBA and Z is anywhere from modest to enormous (think the Z with 512GB SSD). No question. The point remains that, if you can afford it, the Z is far more powerful than the MBA, to the point where the MBA isn't a real competitor to the Z, although it is to he Samsung, etc.

 

@Louche I agree with the statement that the MBA isn't a true competitor to the Z, really, the only competition to the Z2 is the Z1! lol
I just wanted to clarify the comparison to the MBA so it's more accurate.

 

Accuracy is good. We should all give it a try. At last for the novelty of it.

 

As an Acer owner, I would assume that the Travelmate display (even this new LG panel) can not be even mentioned in the same breath as the Z or the refreshed MBA.

IMO, for professional or business use, the 16:10 aspect ratio is far superior to the 16:9 ratio. This is esp. true on a 13" unit.

Clearly, the Z is more powerful than the new Air refresh, but only the most demanding ultrathin users will really use the Z's power to its fullest extent. I think the advantage here is to Apple for the general market.

I think the Air is a direct competitor for the Z to all but a small group of power users. The Air's pricing and features will make it the overwhelming favorite of ultrathin buyers who would have otherwise looked and considered a baseline Z2.

Any external GPU options for an apple thunderbolt port yet?

 

well it depends... if both use vertex 3's they'd get 500 MB/s anyways (or any good quality 3rd gen SSD)

so if you ran 2 in RAID0... 1GB/s???

 

I don't agree, I think it is all about resolution. 1920x1200 is better than 1080P, but 1080P on a Z is better than 1440x900 on a Mac. I would also argue that 1600x900 is better than 1440x900.

Most resolution wins in my book every time. I might make one exception, I think I'd rather have 1280x800 than 1366x768.

 

now that the new macbook is released. it is nice to know that we have higher resolution in its class, and we have external graphics and cd rom.

Now i wish that sony would of created a connector like displayport to get 3 screen

 

I disagree. If you don't want/need the capabilities of the Z, there's no reason for most people (ComputerCowboy excepted) to buy it given the significantly higher price. The MBA is more of a competitor to the SA/SB or the Samsung than the Z.

 

I just got back from playing around with the Z in the NYC Sony Store.

I didn't really do to much with it, but I wanted to see what would happen if I pulled out the dock without pressing the un-dock button. I had an Internet Explorer window open at the time and the computer froze with the IE window still on the screen, no blue screen, but the Z was completely unresponsive.

Nothing worked except holding the power button to forcefully power it down.

After restarting I tried removing the dock again, but this time I did press the button. Upon pressing the un-dock button there was a pop-up message saying to close any open applications (I think it said any graphic intensive programs) before proceeding. I had IE open at the time which I didn’t bother to shut down.

After the dock was removed the screen flashed a couple of times and I was then able to continue using IE.

When reconnecting the dock the screen also flashed a couple of times.

The dock had a sticker that said something like Prototype and Not for Sale. I hope they fix the undocking issues in the final release.

 

How was the keyboard?

 

^ very shallow travel, but I can live with it.
It wouldn't take long to get used to it.

 

Totally agree....just saying it's a nice looking package. My experience with Acer products has been pretty negative, this is the first thing I've seen from them in a long time I've found even remotely appealing. Not an option for me given I need more processing power for music programs....but it might be for some.

nutsfu - Thanks for the hands on report. I've yet to make it up to the store yet....midtown in this heat? Meh. ;-)

 

I agree. Despite all of my misgivings, I still miss my M1210's screen over the 5 laptops (all 16:9, with the exception of my cr48) I've had since.

The *only* compensation I've been able to get near accepting is using is autohiding the taskbar, and setting the animation delay to "0." Even so, that's not perfect, either Nothing is a match for 16:10 at this low resolution. Running the taskbar on the side only makes it ~1280:768, which isn't any better, lol.

 

it's really unappealing to see a sony product in year 2011 that has docking connectivity issues. shut down all apps before disconnecting.. are you serious? What if i have dozen apps open, i close all of em one by one ?

ridiculous. makes me appreciate my Z11 even more. that HO

 

you dont have to shut down any apps before disconnecting

 

i think you need to press a button to disconnect correct?

 

yes, and sony probably included some program with a button you have to press before you disconnect

 

only graphics apps.... no different from previous Z series GT330m switching.

 

that is nice. now we need someone to test if the laptop is on sleeping or hibernating and we press the button (on the connector), once you press it since the laptop is sleeping/hibernating so it will not response to the command. the question is will it BSOD/Freeze?? (not will it blend -P)

 

actually, it seems that the 'undocking' button is not software, rather, it is a physical button that is part of the wire

 

I will wish undocking or even the graphics switching on the z1 was a little more graphically friendly. Multiple flashes of the screen make me think somethings wrong.

If the screen is required to go off, at least fade out to black, and fade back in >.>

 

That would be something Apple would think of, not Sony

IMO

 

No - you are wrong. the disk has a cache. When the OS sends data to the disk, the disk responds that the data has been received and written. However, in actual fact, it could be sitting in the disk's cache - not actually committed anywhere. If the power goes, the cache is lost, unless you have a battery-backed cache (what you can find on many RAID controllers)

So, the disk needs to have a battery, a transaction system, or you will run the risk of losing data if the power goes.

This is different to when the OS BSODs - when there is a BSOD, power remains to the computer, but just Windows (the OS) has stopped working. Not the lower level hardware.

Anyway, this is the last time I will bother with this subthread. It's OT, and I've written this explanation several times, to no avail.

 

Phew, for a while I thought it was worse than the Z

 

i don't have to turn off graphics apps, except for games, when i switch between the integrated and dedicated gpu on my z

i doubt you have to turn off graphics apps (besides games) with the new z, so you should be able to change it with videos or pictures running

 

If I perform the graphics switch in the middle of playing a YouTube video, the video exhibits a helpless "green screen of doom" and freezes with green static (the audio still works!) Games, there's no doubt that you'll run into trouble......