The Official Haswell/Z Speculation Thread

I am totally uninterested in a new PMD solution. The latest Z with PMD was the first occurence of a laptop that would die if power went down (or unplugged). Any solution has to be able to run on battery. I still have a Z1 (that I need to replace) and much preferconfigurations with integrated dGPU, but it'd be nice to have Optimus, not some proprietary solution which means display drivers are buggy and never updated.

 

Some of you may have seen this: Sharp to Produce 3 Types of IGZO LCD Panels for Notebook PCs | Press Releases | Sharp Global. I for sure hope a future Z would grab one of those screens.

 

michelsu,
Toshiba KIRAbook did it (13.3" panel), a lot of reviews already at anandtech, theverge, engadget, etc.

 

In a week and a half before the official Haswell announcements follow, let's summarise what we know or can expect in regad to the top Vaio machine previously known as Z.

1. A new nicknaming within the Vaio lineup will probably give us Vaio Pro(fessional), that is, in short, something like SV-P1. (Also, there was a mention of "Elite").

2. It is possible that classic notebook clamshell will be reworked in terms of split system (detachable tablet+notebook functionality) presented earlier as North Cape concept. At present, we have neither confirmation nor disproof of this speculation. Obviously, if it takes as mentioned, we will get Core U system, less powered then it was with QM, still all is depending on the genius of Vaio engineers there.

3. Equally, it is possible that new machine will get a traditional chassis, yet a slightly thinner, with enhanced triluminous LCD touch enabled (option) panel, either with FullHD resolution or higher, blah-blah like 3200*1800, and with some ancient I/O dropped. Equally, there is no "yes" or "no" to possible limitation of power by Iris GPU itself or, vise versa, by any GPU in external battery slice-like dock, for instance.

To sum up, just bodiless speculations. BUT: North Cape option is more feasible in terms of current time span (this summer); more powerful construction that goes beyong Core U TDPs will probably require more time...

P.S. Who cares, the most pessimistic stance must not exclude the point that... we have already seen here or somewhere what we are seeking for .
Cheers.

 

If the Z is going to be underpowered then what's the point?

 

By no means it is *under*powered, *less* means just lower TDP in the newest chips and their ultrabook profile. The point is that there are no 35W chips marked *M* announced as of today. Do you believe in 47W chips put safely in the body of 15 mm?

Logically, we have to accept either (a) the idea of the system built on the U chips now; or assume that (b) Q3 will bring better possibilities; or turn back to (c) Ivy Bridge 35W chips. That's all.

 

Today's ULVs are not the ULVs of old. My Duo with the i7 and 8GB is just as snappy, if not snappier, than the non-ULV i7-2620M and 16GB in my Panasonic J10. Since all of the processors - even the ULVs - can scale up in terms of what they do, the differences are smaller and smaller. Unless you're compiling lots of software or doing heavy number crunching, most people won't notice a difference. Some will; no doubt. I would rather have 16GB over a QM processor.
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Also remember that the SVZ didn't just come in a QM flavor; it had lower spec'd machines, too. So if the SVP is the new Z, I would expect to see machines with lower specs so they sell some at a "normal" price point.

 

If the theoretical Z was on these new chips, do you guys think it would take longer to output full HD videos compared to the latest Z? Or doing high resolution batch outputs in Photoshop?

 

I think so, yes. They claim the video encoding in Haswell is faster, but I think that particular encoder can only be used for very special outputs, such as MPEG2 for video conferencing and DVDs. There's also some SVC encoding based on H.264 but I doubt it can do general encoding for all possible output settings. So, we're probably limited to using the CPU cores, and there are only 2 on a U processor, not 4 as in the QC SVZ.

 

Engadget mentions a new Vaio on Sony PC shows up at FCC, hints at 13-inch VAIO Duo

The model is SVD132A14L and seems to be a plain 13" Duo, like the one we saw in the Youtube video. So it doesn´t match the P models listed here ~2 weeks ago.

 

Yeah, the most pessimistic scenario is ruled out. SVP11 or SVP13 then is for new series. If it really masks Pro we will see two machines, 11" and 13", sharing one design.

 

So are you saying that those four P models listed a few pages back / the leaked YouTube video are not the next Z? I'm confused. I thought beaups confirmed someone's guess that the "Pro" would be the next Z.

Also, are we probably getting full refreshes of all the other models in June too? And if so, will they be available for purchasing right away? My 2010 Z is seriously dying on me right now - the screen keeps going super white but usually recovers, and its heat issues are insane. It's on its last month or so for sure. I'm going to Tokyo for 2 weeks in the middle of July and I'm afraid of getting technologically stranded there if my laptop dies and there's no new models to buy yet.

 

SurferJon,
I just stated that now it is clear that the youtube video we got 2 weeks ago, fortunately, has nothing to do either with P or with Z. If one suggests that the letter P stands for Pro (formerly Z) then we will get one design and split into 11" and 13".

 

McMagnus,
by the way, SVD132A14L has all the signs of premium hybrid ultra as one of the labels there points at WWAN SIM slot (apart of WLAN, Bluetooth and NFC, triluminous panel and 8MP camera)...

 

The slider is an SVD as Aiga points out, so it's part of the Duo line. It doesn't look like Sony is updating the 11.6" Duo - just replacing it with the 13". So the SVP series (which has both 11.6" and 13" models) is something new. Is it the new Z? Don't know.

 

The SVP sounds more and more like a T series replacement. Comes in 11" and 13" touch screens, mid range CPU with low TDP to enable low fan noise and long battery life. A bit more expensive than the T due to the FHD panel no doubt (according to Sony, they left 1366x768 with the Fit series).

Looks like a Z replacement is further down the road. Perhaps the chips they need comes in the Sep-Oct Haswell release as we speculated earlier?

 

That would be my guess too. The first round of haswell chips seem to be either too power hungry or too weak to be a proper SVZ successor.

 

Quite reasonable conclusion. Though in this case, they are dropping the profitable niche of price-friendly ultrabooks and that comes contrary to today's statement made by Sony concerning its PC business. Maybe it is not just a replacement.

Personally, I have a feeling that "sonyleaks" may appear closer to the autumn. Still some doubts are in the air: quite unsually, Sony will present something at Computex, not just Duo 13 - never before, in my memory at least, they used this Taiwan exhibition as a pub.rel. event; as a rule, it was rather CES, IFA or special events with selected invitations sent...

 

P.S. To quote today's Sony statement: "Regarding PCs, in view of the changes the market and business environment have undergone in the past year, the Company is implementing a strategic realignment that initially prioritizes profitability improvement over sales expansion..." In some broader way, it may be interpreted as "no more elitist niche products" too... But we need a good deal of hermeneutics to conclude something definite in terms of Vaio line.

 

Or we could infer the opposite... I would guess that their top-of-the-line models have higher margins than the basic consumer-class laptops, so we could read that as saying "instead of flooding the market with cheap laptops, we'll concentrate on the high end".

 

new HP 14 Envy has 3200 x 1800!!!!!!! Sony better comes up with some crazy engineering.

 

Not sure if someone mentioned this or no, but it seems that the 13 inch D series is made in japan, according to the label at least. No idea where the current duo 11 is made.

Also from the fcc filing, dimensions are almost identical to the current S13, at 33.1cm x 21cm, no information on thickness though.

 

Just to add, duo 13 sales will start presumably on June 21st in Europe.

 

Mine is made in Japan, according to the label.

 

awesome, so early June announcement I presume?

thanks, so it seems it follows the duo 11 with that.

 

Yes, early June, or even May 29-30, some samples should be at Computex, starting from June 3. Sales are by the end of June, early July. That's my vision of things.

Just a guess, but Duo 13 is not the only one there in June - July.

 

agreed, the P series or whatever it is should be there as well.

 

Some interesting news about P.

SVP13215PXB: 13.3" model Core i5 (1.6GHz, oh really?) 128GB SSD 4GB RAM and black carbon finish. 3.64 lbs, that is, about 1.65 kg.
SVP11213CXB is 3.53 lbs, that is, about 1.6 kg. The most expensive is the 13.3" model that comes with Core i7 (1.8 GHz) and 256 GB SSD - it will cost about $1,750. Touchscreens. LCD resolution is...yup... standard... 1600*900. Guess what it is, and I believe you will cry "I know!" even without the second try.

Wonder if the weight includes the whole package, no idea...

P.S. Top Duo 13 (SVD13215PXB) mentioned with 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD. About 1800 USD...

 

So P =/= Z successor?

 

an expensive 1.6kg ultrabook......wonder who will buy it....

 

The weight doesn't make any sense.... if this is indeed their top tier. A full pound heavier than the SVZ?

 

The Z series has usually been 3 - 4lbs. With the bigger battery the Z topped out at just over 4lbs. So if the P - which may or may not be the new Z - comes in at around 3.5ish, it's not far off the mark especially if it has decent battery life. And if it does have a 1600x900 but BETTER screen than the Duo, I'm all for it. 1920x1080 is just crazy on an 11.6" (I own the Duo, so I know ...). The last Z had a great screen, I'd like to see that moved forward in some way.

 

Depends on the actual weight of the cat: the figures I mentioned may indicate the weight of the whole retail package, with AC brick +. It this is the case, then we get the machine that has just 0.9 kg or about. If not, this is fairly a premium addition to the current T series.

To add: we have virtually nothing on the horizon but P.

Minor P.P.S: FullHD is possible on P, perhaps. 8GB RAM (SVP13215PXB) is a proper indication of business series. Also, Duo 13 will probably come with VGA adapter included.

 

The Z2 and SVZ is 2.58 lbs

 

Lower res screen, lower clocking processor... doesn't sound like a spiritual successor to the Z to me.

 

SurferJon,
more powerful i7-4950HQ (5200, GT3) and i7-4850HQ (5200, GT3) are due August-September.

 

by being a FULL pound heavier than the SVZ, they could cram 1LB of copper and fans and use a full voltage launch haswell chip

maybe this what the yawn from beaups was for, my reaction too from reading those specs.

 

Are you saying then that this isn't our Z successor and that they'll probably save it for later this year when those chips come out?

 

Qwaarjet
we do not know the exact weight of the device in the box.

 

In stricto senso of possible comparisons and power legacies, this isn't indeed. As of now, the true flagship is Duo 13. Let's wait.

 

These babies are t-i-n-y! Innodisk Releases World First 1.5 gram SATA µSSDs

Perhaps we'll end up with 256GB (4x64) in a detachable screen after all?

Not in the SVP though, but in a real Z successor.

 

Please get rid of the PMD

I want my DVD drive so i can install a 2nd hard drive
I want a graphics card thats inside the damn laptop so i dont need to carry a second box everywhere i go.

Thats what i want.

a Thin, Fast, awesome laptop that does everything and has everything.

One that i can carry under my arm into a room, play any game, work on any project and have every port.

Not needing a mess of wires with docs and crap dangling everywhere.

 

Sigh. My Z1 is falling apart quickly and probably won't last through the summer. To buy a SVZ now or wait for a possibly non-existent Z successor later this year... that is the question!

 

Hear hear! Long live the all-in-one Z.

But I would rather leave out the DVD drive and trade that off for extra cooling for a more powerful CPU/GPU (or make the Z lighter). I have no interest in voiding the warranty just to save a few hundred bucks. Oh yeah, and it almost gave me a heart attack to take the dear old Z apart; you guys make it sound like it can be done by anyone with a screwdriver but the truth is some of those screws are extremely tiny and I had to go down to our machine shop and borrow an uncommonly tiny screwdriver. And I nearly lost some of those screws.

My point being, the use case for the Z1 is POWER otherwise many ULV ultrathins would fit the bill, and DVD drive is just not part of the power equation any more. Save that space for cooling capacity. DVD is old tech and it will just turn off the majority of potential Z customers.

My current Z1 is cranking along just fine and I have a spare battery in the cooler that ought to take me to 2014... hopefully by then we'll have the Son of the Z1.

 

The new Razer Blade 14" has a quad core haswell AND nvidia 765m all the while being the same thickness of the SVZ. Weighs 1.5lbs more and is slightly larger 13.58 x 9.25 x 0.66 vs the SVZ 13.00 x 8.27 x 0.66, also has a low quality/900P panel apparently, but if Razer can do this, I expect great things from Sony hopefully as they have more experience with this form factor.

 

and yes I know the Blade and Z target different markets, but my point is such a thin computer being able to handle a large thermal envelope. A quad-core haswell + a GTX 765M TDP is wayyyyy higher (110+ vs 47W) than a full voltage haswell w/GT3e which is really all I'd like in my Z replacement since gaming isn't a priority. Just a nice perk and the GT3e would easily deal with casual mobile gaming for me whenever I get the chance.

 

Yeah I saw that on AnandTech too, very interesting. I really have no idea how they will stop it from:

1) throttling
2) sounding like a jet engine
3) all of the above

That kind of TDP in such a small laptop is... risky. The closest I can think of is the Gigabyte u2442f that has a ULV i7 and a 650M in a thin 14" chassis, but that's still a good 30W lower than this little beast. Hats off to them if it works though.

 

So it seems no friday press release from Sony, looks like it will be either sunday or monday for any new introductions?

 

ascariss,

they will synchronize it with Haswell annoucement. Also, an official statement may follow on the third week of June.

Did anyone try to check the FCC files concerning P? Still no images leaked...

 

I don't know the product release schedule of Sony, but since we're pretty sure now the Z successor isn't the P, when would the next opportunity be for them to release a potential Z successor? (September?) And what would the next opportunity be after that? (June again?)