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    Vaio Z12 SSD

    Discussion in 'VAIO / Sony' started by denony, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. denony

    denony Notebook Consultant

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    Hi there

    Z11 comes with Samsung MMCRE28GQDXP-MVB 64GB SSD drive

    Does Z 12 come with the same SSD ?

    Thank you
     
    denony, Jul 9, 2010
    #1
  2. heavenly_wild

    heavenly_wild Notebook Deity

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    Yes

    ^10char
     
    heavenly_wild, Jul 9, 2010
    #2
  3. beaups

    beaups New Jack Hustler

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    ^No.

    The Z12's are showing up with Toshiba drives.
     
    beaups, Jul 9, 2010
    #3
  4. TofuTurkey

    TofuTurkey Married a Champagne Mango

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    Hey, do you have a 3x or 4x SSD configuration? I've seen pictures of a 2x SSD config where SATA connectors are used, but I don't know how more than two of those will fit...
     
    TofuTurkey, Jul 9, 2010
    #4
  5. heavenly_wild

    heavenly_wild Notebook Deity

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    I have the SSD x4 version :)
     
    heavenly_wild, Jul 9, 2010
    #5
  6. TofuTurkey

    TofuTurkey Married a Champagne Mango

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    You haven't, by any chance, opened your laptop and took a few pics, have you? :D
     
    TofuTurkey, Jul 9, 2010
    #6
  7. Rev2Liv

    Rev2Liv Notebook Consultant

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    Is Sony the only one implementing this superfast SSD RAID 0? Kudos to Sony for making it the only storage option.

    Had they offered it separately as a $600, I never would have chose it, but i'm glad they had foresight.
     
    Rev2Liv, Jul 9, 2010
    #7
  8. denony

    denony Notebook Consultant

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    So, doe Z12 come with the same SSD than Z11 ?
     
    denony, Jul 10, 2010
    #8
  9. Carmien

    Carmien Notebook Guru

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    I'm trying to get clarity on that with Sony. I've been told so far (verbally) that the Z12 does come with TRIM support on RAID whereas Z11 definitely did not. Apparently, they're claiming a prioprietary change to chipset and drive configuration to accomplish. I'm waiting for something in writing and will post it when I have it.

    Anyhoo, if this is true then the answer is quite likely no.
     
    Carmien, Jul 10, 2010
    #9
  10. heavenly_wild

    heavenly_wild Notebook Deity

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    Sorry mate, I am treating this machine like it's gold so there is no chance I would open it up >_<
     
    heavenly_wild, Jul 10, 2010
    #10
  11. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi, Beaup,

    Can you please let me know the model number of that Toshiba SSD ?
    You can see it from Intel Rapid Storage management software.
    I am highly interested in looking into why Samsung SSD was replaced.
    'Coz it's no TRIM or so ?


    Thank you for sharing this info if available, Beaup ~
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 13, 2010
    #11
  12. vavabavava

    vavabavava Notebook Consultant

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    Toshiba THNS128GG4BNAA

    this thing is also used in T410s LENOVO Thinkpad
     
    vavabavava, Jul 13, 2010
    #12
  13. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Oh, thanks, vavabavava ~

    But, actually, what I ever saw personally by the time Z126 (the model name is equivalent to like your local model number of 1600 x 900, 128G SSD) was launched here was still "Samsung MMCRE28GQDXP - FW VBM43S1Q".
    Probably Toshiba was available in the later incoming batch.

    Wondered which SSD controller was used in this Toshiba's SSD ?
    Hopefully someone has the close-up pics of this SSD in Z12x.
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 13, 2010
    #13
  14. StefanHamminga

    StefanHamminga Notebook Consultant

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    I just got my Z12 with the 256GB quad, it has the Samsung drives (and more interestingly, in the Intel RAID manager it shows the same serial number twice, so 2 serials for 4 drives).
     
    StefanHamminga, Jul 13, 2010
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  15. Rachel

    Rachel Busy Bee

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    Rachel, Jul 13, 2010
    #15
  16. TofuTurkey

    TofuTurkey Married a Champagne Mango

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    By controller you mean something like SandForce?

    It seems more and more likely that the 1 / 2 SSD configurations come with Toshiba drives, while 3 / 4 SSD configs still use Samsung ones.

    We definitely still need someone to measure the actual dimensions of the bare Toshiba SSDs in the Z12 :)
     
    TofuTurkey, Jul 13, 2010
    #16
  17. ZoinksS2k

    ZoinksS2k Notebook Virtuoso

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    Mmm, a Sandforce controller would be fantastic.

    Yes, the Lenovo T400/T410s uses a micro sata form factor. Take off the casing and it would likely fit in the Sony bay. I didn't take the one I had apart. This is older, but you get the idea.

    View attachment 43645
    EDIT: Yes, this is a Samsung but the form factor is the same.

    The 1.8 in Rachel's link looks a bit stubby, but the adapter looks right. Might be an angle thing.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    ZoinksS2k, Jul 13, 2010
    #17
  18. Crus-T

    Crus-T Notebook Consultant

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    Quad raid0 in the Z use two double sided drives, that are actually 2 in 1 drives. That's what you only see two serials.
     
    Crus-T, Jul 13, 2010
    #18
  19. StefanHamminga

    StefanHamminga Notebook Consultant

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    Yup, but I would have thought they would use a serial for each drive instead of each unit...
     
    StefanHamminga, Jul 13, 2010
    #19
  20. ZoinksS2k

    ZoinksS2k Notebook Virtuoso

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    No, one per drive "sandwich"

    The pics above are of the same drive.
     
    ZoinksS2k, Jul 13, 2010
    #20
  21. vavabavava

    vavabavava Notebook Consultant

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    The 128gb ssd in the link was actually used in Toshiba's R500, R600 models. I had a chance to disassemble the R500 which came with 128gb ssd (my friend's laptop, costing him nearly $2800). I forgot about the dimension of the connector, but the size actually would fit the Z. it was really.. small drive. really really really small. the ssd itself was extremely slow and stuttering compared to intel G2 160gb.
     
    vavabavava, Jul 13, 2010
    #21
  22. vavabavava

    vavabavava Notebook Consultant

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    I will probably take it apart after a week or so...

    I just want to give my Z1290x some time to rest....

    my previous Z114gx/s had to go thru replacements of all main parts by me......... with parts brought by onsite tech...
     
    vavabavava, Jul 13, 2010
    #22
  23. TofuTurkey

    TofuTurkey Married a Champagne Mango

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    TIA :) Please don't feel obligated to open your Z if you don't want to though, it's not like the world will fall apart otherwise :p
     
    TofuTurkey, Jul 13, 2010
    #23
  24. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi, guys, thanks so much for these replies. I am back. Got to be out of town for few days.

    For 256G SSD inside Z11x/Z12x, I have seen 64G x 4 and they are all Samsung. I didn't know there is any 128G x 2 that SSD config !!! Very interesting.
    By the way, from Zoisk's pics, it says MMDPE56GQDXP (shown and printed on the label). This is also confusing to me.
    If Samsung, then the model number shown from IRST is MMCRE28GQDXP, also in Intel Raid BIOS menu.
    Or it's just a label telling 256G config from 128 or so, but all boards are actually MMCRE28GQDXP.

    And, Vavabavava, no, no no, you don't really have to open up your Z12x.
    Your Z is a precious to each owner. You don't have to. Indeed.

    From all what we have talked about so far, it's interesting that Sony this time uses different SSDs in batches and make everyone (at least myself) confused :)
    (Normally, this rarely happens, from a original manufacturer's point of view - specially in NB business; For example, Asxs' F8Sn all came with the same Hitacxi 5400rpm 5K200 HDD).
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 15, 2010
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  25. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi, guys,
    Yes, I saw that Toshiba's SSD configuration inside a 128GB model (1600 x 900;128GB) - Toshiba 64GB SSD x 2.
    The controller is SandForce.

    Now started wondering - which SSD controller is better, Toshiba SF (in new Z12x) or Samsung S3C29RBB (in Z11x) ?
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 19, 2010
    #25
  26. Rachel

    Rachel Busy Bee

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    Well i've yet to see the Toshiba drive benchmarked. Sandforce is one of the best controllers if not the best right now. Samsung are a little way down on that.
     
    Rachel, Jul 19, 2010
    #26
  27. ZoinksS2k

    ZoinksS2k Notebook Virtuoso

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    I concur with Rachel. Sandforce has the best controller right now.

    That said, the RAID flavors are still faster overall. (2x medium speed drives are faster than 1x fast drive)
     
    ZoinksS2k, Jul 19, 2010
    #27
  28. jon_lui

    jon_lui Notebook Enthusiast

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    I'm pretty sure the Toshiba Drives are not using Sandforce controllers.

    I have a Z1290 with dual 128gb Toshiba Drives.
    Model THNS128GG4BNAA
    FW: AGSA0203

    The lack of NCQ and 4k random writes in the low 10MB/s (w/o RAID 0 by the way) is a dead giveaway that these Toshiba drives are not anything special.

    If I were to hazard a guess I think it uses the Toshiba T6UG1XBG controller.
     
    jon_lui, Jul 19, 2010
    #28
  29. vavabavava

    vavabavava Notebook Consultant

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    I think the toshiba has several different versions of SSD such as.. HG2, HG3.

    It is possible that the HG3 is using sandforce's but I don't think it is the case for HG2... because..

    the ssd benchmarks i was getting with 64*3 samsung drive in Z114 was much better on random 4k than Z1290x with 128gb*2 toshiba.
     
    vavabavava, Jul 19, 2010
    #29
  30. blue13x

    blue13x Notebook Deity

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    Here some numbers from my Z12 Quad setup, I guess this is using the Toshiba drives:
    [​IMG]
     
    blue13x, Jul 19, 2010
    #30
  31. ahsan.mughal

    ahsan.mughal Notebook Evangelist

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    I wish I had Quad Setup :love:

    Mine, Dual SSD:

    [​IMG]
     
    ahsan.mughal, Jul 19, 2010
    #31
  32. blue13x

    blue13x Notebook Deity

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    Thats still crazy fast and very close
     
    blue13x, Jul 19, 2010
    #32
  33. Virtuous

    Virtuous Notebook Evangelist

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    Very impressive numbers.
     
    Virtuous, Jul 20, 2010
    #33
  34. ArminHelisch

    ArminHelisch Newbie

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    I am considering a Vaio VPCZ1290 and emailed the the Sony Northeast Inside Channel Account Manager regarding measures implemented in the z12 series to prevent/lessen SSD writing speed degradation. Here the response:

    "The bottom line is even thought they will have some degradation over time they still out preform standard HDD driver. Regarding does Sony have anything, the answer is NO as this is firmware dependent and is controlled by the drive manufactures and the chip set controllers."

    ...hmm...Has anyone found out a more definitive answer? I was thinking of getting the 2x256 gb SSD option...
     
    ArminHelisch, Jul 21, 2010
    #34
  35. JP$

    JP$ Notebook Evangelist

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    There appears to be background garbage collection being performed by the SSDs themselves, independent of the OS. See this thread for more details: http://forum.notebookreview.com/son...g-term-ssd-performance-post-your-results.html.

    Funny enough, Sony told NBR member Carmien something different. They seemed to indicate that TRIM is supported for the Z12 drives. He asked for that in writing, as it is very unlikely.
     
    JP$, Jul 21, 2010
    #35
  36. Rev2Liv

    Rev2Liv Notebook Consultant

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    I have a 128x2 Toshiba setup in my Z and I get 2/3 the speeds you do in the first 3 sets. SSD speeds vary dramatically due to file management and stuff.
     
    Rev2Liv, Jul 22, 2010
    #36
  37. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi, guys,

    Does that mean Toshiba's SSD truly overperform Samsung's SSD ?
    And TRIM is natively supported by Toshiba (if SandForce controller used) but is NOT by Samsung's S3C29RBB01 ?
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 22, 2010
    #37
  38. Crus-T

    Crus-T Notebook Consultant

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    TRIM is not supported over Raid0 configuration, the used SSD doesn't matter in this case.
    (And I assume Samsung SSDs support TRIM when not in raid0)
     
    Crus-T, Jul 22, 2010
    #38
  39. JP$

    JP$ Notebook Evangelist

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    Right. I don't think there is anything about the Samsung or Toshiba drives themselves that prevents TRIM support. It's the fact that they are in RAID 0.

    It is very unlikely that TRIM is supported in the Toshiba drives on the Z12 when in RAID 0. That is something that a Sony rep claimed to an NBR member, and he rightfully was suspicious and asked for it in writing, which I'm fairly certain they haven't provided to him yet.

    Regarding the Toshiba drives "outperforming" the Samsung drives, I haven't seen any hard evidence of that. I think in terms of real-world usage, you shouldn't even notice a difference. A quad RAID of Samsung drives might feel faster than a dual RAID of Toshiba drives, even if the Toshiba drives are slightly higher quality. This is all my speculation mind you. I don't have any hard evidence either way.
     
    JP$, Jul 22, 2010
    #39
  40. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi, guys ~

    Can the Toshiba SSD be the same (not that LIF connector/interface) ?
    Macbook Pro Core i7 TS128B SSD details (Toshiba) - Mac Forums
    The same part number - THNS128GG4BBAA

    Also, I found this (as in the retail store), it doesn't support NCQ (from IRST console).
    Interesting !
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 22, 2010
    #40
  41. ZoinksS2k

    ZoinksS2k Notebook Virtuoso

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    The single Toshiba drives may support and have TRIM implemented, but the RAID'ed solutions do not.

    This is a known commodity, regardless of what a Sony rep says.
     
    ZoinksS2k, Jul 23, 2010
    #41
  42. JP$

    JP$ Notebook Evangelist

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    No disagreement here.
     
    JP$, Jul 23, 2010
    #42
  43. CALBenzo

    CALBenzo Notebook Enthusiast

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    According to the Intel Rapid Storage Tech program, my VPCZ12JHX is running four 128 Gb Samsung SSD drives. Specs are similar to Blue13x's.


    [​IMG]

    Dumbo here doesn't know how to insert the pictures! :)
     
    CALBenzo, Jul 23, 2010
    #43
  44. blue13x

    blue13x Notebook Deity

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    How many blinks are you getting on startup?
     
    blue13x, Jul 23, 2010
    #44
  45. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi,
    I have 1 blink during the startup !
    The time it's showing user logon. I usually use the external power supply. But the same - 1 blink.
    It's switching between Intel HD graphic and nVidia, I suppose.

    BTW, I had a clean installation of Win7, 64-bit, pro (from my own OEM CD), without any Sony software installed.
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 23, 2010
    #45
  46. blue13x

    blue13x Notebook Deity

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    well I get 10-11 blinks, I wonder why.
    I didnt do a clean install.

    The blinks im refering to is after the VAIO logo appears, kinda like cursor blinks.
     
    blue13x, Jul 23, 2010
    #46
  47. alanpcpeng

    alanpcpeng Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well, if you're referring that Vaio logo, I suppose it's the time not long when you power on the machine ? Vaio logo, with the Hyde2 BIOS logo something down the lower right-hand corner ?

    I didn't notice any blink actually, blue13x. Not at all.
     
    alanpcpeng, Jul 24, 2010
    #47
  48. Crus-T

    Crus-T Notebook Consultant

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    I assume that the blink you guys are talking about concerns the cursor that appears after the BIOS logo and before the logon screen. Am I right ? (if yes I got 5-6 blink with 128GB SSD)
     
    Crus-T, Jul 24, 2010
    #48
  49. blue13x

    blue13x Notebook Deity

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    Yes, correct..
     
    blue13x, Jul 24, 2010
    #49
  50. JP$

    JP$ Notebook Evangelist

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    I think it might be more interesting for us all to stopwatch our total boot time rather than comparing cursor blinks. I get 17 cursor blinks between BIOS and Windows splash screen. But my total boot time to the Windows log on screen is about 32 seconds, which seems fast (even if I'm getting more cursor blinks than others). If you're getting 1 blink, 5-6 blinks, etc., what is your total boot up time?
     
    JP$, Jul 24, 2010
    #50
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