ViDock 4G for Light Peak (Z21) - POSSIBLE.

I think

1) you may need permission from the admins of this forum to use notebookreview.com's name

2) your points about the PMD not being powerful enough is very, very likely also known by the Sony engineers (they are not idiots)

3) when people are asked to do something, it helps if they get something in return. When you ask Sony to release the LightPeak specs to Villagetronics, Sony loses, not gains.

4) consider writing an executive summary.

5) I mentioned this before: I believe the Z is Sony's by-product of experimentations at the bleeding edge. The sandwiched RAID0 SSDs that were introduced with the Z1 must have done well enough to trickle down to the current SAs. LightPeak is another step that may or may not go into other products (depends on how well it does). Right now LightPeak is in the very early stages, it will take a while for related products to appear.

I don't think Sony ever intends the Z to cater to any specific group of people, it's purely an experiment Sony decides to do. As such, I don't think Sony should ever listen to anyone about what they should do to their Z, I think they have the most updated information about the latest technology (I know they have significantly more information about LightPeak that the public does not know about). Just like Steve Jobs never listened to what people say: he does what he thinks is right.

 

A quick rundown of pros and cons of an eGPU being available for the Z2:

+ Z2 + eGPU becomes a legitimate alternative to a gaming box
- Z2 + eGPU as a gaming box is unaligned to product image
- Sony loses generational sales as users no longer need to upgrade notebooks to gain faster dGPUs
- Z2 + eGPU means likely higher loading of the system = more temps = more failures

Since there are more cons for Sony it's questionable then how willing Sony would be to assist in making a power user's eGPU for a Z2. Hence I've given details of how to hack a PMD to make it happen which interested users may want to pursue.

I would love to see a hacked Z2 eGPU solution to show the workarounds users have to go to to circumvent deliberate blocking of similar official solutions in order to maximize company profits.

 

1) I completely agree

2) Probably, but it's always better to say what we think instead of not saying it. It's to evidence.

3) Obviously, but there are people, and not so low in number, who won't buy it without the chance of a powerful eGPU. They don't want other to do it? They could do it to have more appeal. They don't think it's convenient?? Well, some users won't buy Z2, if they let third companies, they will sell less PMD but they'll sell more laptop.

4) yeah

5) I agree... but still, they could think of build an eGPU swappable dock in future.

In part, I agree... but still, it will depends on their loss in terms of sells in this case.

But it would aid in GPU computing /scientific calculations. Powerful GPUs always go in both directions.

In addition, your third point has an opposite: change of laptop to a thunderbolt laptop to obtain eGPU

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I agree with you all. But still I think that a letter would recall their attention to the forum, and see that a lot is moving right now..

Well.. if I'll be able to get PMD at a very very low price... I'll do it. But you'll have to tell me what to buy (here I don't have not instruments. Maybe only a solderer.. too big XD) and what to do, stage by stage (you're talking to one who don't modify electronic usually XD)

 

The idea I presented above works by piggybacking the PMD. It works after all the optic fibre transceivers/muxers have done their job so is at the final copper level. It is a Sony Z2 "HD6650M-BGA socket to external x4 pci-e+DP kit".

It would require a technically competent individual to create a BGA chip to replace the HD6650M with the wiring running off it and the panel that provides the external connectors. A manufacturer like bplus/hwtools/VT have the expertise to make it but I doubt they would since this idea is designed at modifying Sony gear. Ie: it's too hackish.

For that reason I'm hoping a hobbyist employee from such a company with a Z2 might want to create a kit for Z2 owner's. The kit could then be sent to anybody around the world for mounting by the end user with the assistance of someone with an IR BGA gun for HD6650M swapout. If you kept the HD6650M then the mod could be reversed and any cutouts for the panel mount be covered.

The same mod could theoretically be possible to be done by an individual but would require extremely fine soldering (BGA chip) and shielded very thin wires and most certainly would not be as elegant. I wouldn't do it myself unless that PMD was a throwaway item as it would be easy to screw things up.

 

^ In this case... well... for sure, I'm not able to do it at the moment

 

I think the winning line in approaching Sony is speaking to the bottom line.

While there are multiple constituencies for the Z2’s new direction (or ‘experiment’ per TT) in top-of-the-line ultra-portables, my sense is that while gaming would clearly benefit from the options being discussed here, it’s not where the real money is.

The world is moving toward ever higher levels of portability and flexibility, and large high-resolution display capabilities are part of that expectation. Business executives, accountants, scientists, designers, engineers, and many more – demand larger displays, higher resolutions, faster rendering, etc.

One can see it already: those who are thinking forward and leading the charge are looking at 30 inch WQXGA displays. They have the resources to purchase those, and they require that their PC choices (or PCs + outboard devices) support them. It goes without saying that they also have the means to pay for such compatible machines – and are looking for solutions.

Stepping back, this really goes to the way creative and forward-oriented people envision their ideal situation: all the bells and whistles when they are stationary (e.g., home and work), but at the core a light and portable ‘travel-machine’ that doesn’t sacrifice anything essential when they’re away from those environments.

These people can pay for that privilege, or are willing to stretch if necessary to reach this level. They want the best, and demand a path to get there.

The DIY and tech communities can be immensely helpful leading the way with kits, etc. – to demonstrate what is possible. But what will be required ultimately to make it palatable to business execs and others who need and can afford to buy is a packaged, commercially available product suite.

Sony could greatly broaden the appeal of what is now an ‘expensive toy’ for us – by bridging the gap to this growing market segment. Sony could steal some of Apple’s business by leaping out in front. And it wouldn’t be that hard: the basic framework for separating “What’s essential when on the road?” from “What can I have when I’m stationary?” is now visible, instantiated in the Z2. This is TT’s ‘experiment,’ if you will.

My sense is Sony should consider how much more successful the experiment could be if it were to open its eyes to this audience – investing in that outcome by sharing information and intentions with its most ardent supporters.

There is money in it for Sony, and we win too.

 

Well.. remember that it would mean PMDs not sold and at the same time less sells of future laptops.. but at the same time more sells for those who don't want it at the moment and more sells (since in the next months a lot will prefer to buy a macbook pro and plug an external gpu with thunderbolt, outclassing new Z21)...

 

As said before - I'd be willing to buy 2 ViDock units if they get to support Z2...

Here are my answers to the questions in the OP:

I am fine with mid-range cards for my office ViDock but at home I'd purchase as powerful as possible... but even if this is not doable and I'd be limited to 225W I'd still be OK.

VPC-Z21 CTO (i7 2620M, 8 GB RAM, Full HD, etc...)

Office/Scientific

Yes, but not a must-have.

Depends on how hard is to assemble the parts - if more than few hours of work (and extensive precise soldering) I'd be going for a finished product.

 

> Well.. remember that it would mean PMDs not sold and at the same time less sells of future laptops.. .

I believe that would be remarkably short-sighted on Sony’s part, all things considered.

In my view, this case is different: Let’s review: Sony offers a new architecture / functional separation – as an ‘experiment’.

But Sony hasn’t gotten it quite right. It’s flawed in ways painfully evident to everyone on this forum: It may be OK for the ODD (but even that will soon be headed to pasture), yet it’s entirely misaligned with the high-end audience Sony is trying to reach - given the locked-in / proprietary graphics implementation.

Yes, we know this is the usual ‘Sony way’: put something out there that’s ‘not quite’ what we wanted, but has enough of the pieces to entice us, and yet also to frustrate us. Then provide a few more pieces in an upcoming refresh or later model. Get the base to buy again and again and again.

The problem with that approach in this space is there are people waiting to eat your lunch. Apple (now the largest capitalized corporation – ahead of even Exxon) is holding piles of cash. It sees itself as the world’s innovator, and will not sit idle while Sony plays that game. Apple, and perhaps others as well, will grab the ball and leapfrog Sony at the earliest opportunity.

Not all strategies work forever. In this arena, I predict, maintaining an entirely closed architecture is extremely high risk given the direction these technologies are moving.

Yes, perhaps Sony would lose a few sales to those of us who are hopeless Fanboys (and I do NOT say that in any derogatory way whatever; I love Sony stuff) – because the fans just have to have the latest toy and will buy the next iteration – every year.

But most folks tire of that. They would go over to the dark side – and once you lose a customer it’s deucedly hard to get the person back. Better to retain that customer and have him / her buy from you every two or three years (instead of every year) – than not to have the customer at all any more.

What I’m saying is that, net-net, it is in Sony’s real interest to grow and retain this high-end customer base, and (my take) what is required to do that now is to acknowledge there must be some cases where the architecture can be ‘opened up’ a bit.

That said, I acknowledge you could still be right: Sony may be unwilling to part ways with what it sees as a winning strategy. It’s hard to change.

In this case I think the experiment should be expanded to permit that flexibility, and that it would work to Sony’s considerable advantage.

 

I understand.. I quite agree. But Sony likes to his old way of make somebody buy each iterations.. and I agree also that with Apple thunderbolt.. Soly will lose a part of its users.

In addition, Village Tronic is willing to follow Nando4 hack... so things are moving.

Now that I think about it.. Sony will lose some users who will remain on Z1 or will go towards new MBA 13" which will be always expansible in GPU field with Thunderbolt.
Sony MUST change its own view cuz if it continues like this, a MBA 13" user will have to spend 150$ to have a good eGPU while a Z users will have to spend A LOT MORE every year. Too much difference.

My fear is that, since TB exclusive will be off in 2012.. Sony may decide to put TB in Vaio Z 2012 and kick Vaio Z 2011 users' .

 

@Sundial, you are totally on point here. If Sony just made the PMD do everything, WQXGA included, I would have bought it already and I would have had a clear reason to move on from the Z1 to the Z2. As it stands now I dumped a bunch more money into my Z1 setup and I am planning on dumping even more into the Z1 before I even get started on buying the Z2.

I am a fanboy. Sony stuff is great. But... they are starting to me off. They discontinue product lines that I like and offer nothing to replace them, and then they change the Z so that it is still pretty good but ultimately crippled.

I don't understand why they don't try to compete with Apple in the high resolution display arena. If Sony had a $1,500 or even a $2,000 WQXGA display that worked with their new Z2, I would have bought both. As it stands now the only Sony stuff I have bought recently is a couple of VAIO P models, new in box, from old stocks floating around.

 

Some folks may want to keep in mind that for the Z's core group which is small and is supposed to small (Sony does not want/intend this to be a mass-market machine) graphics are a minor, unimportant issue and will become even more minor over time as on-CPU graphics further improve.

Most people who spend $3-5k for a laptop don't play games or have a hobbyist's interest in DIY. Some of the technical professionals who work for them might have specialized needs but they also have their own specialized equipment. In short, the issues which have spurred all manner of creative, insightful and technical discussions are irrelevant to 99%+ of Z buyers.

 

> I don't understand why they don't try to compete with Apple in the high resolution display arena. If Sony had a $1,500 or even a $2,000 WQXGA display that worked with their new Z2, I would have bought both. As it stands now the only Sony stuff I have bought recently is a couple of VAIO P models, new in box, from old stocks floating around.

Amen. Exactly my thinking: Sony could sell more of the Z's to their upscale base, then spark follow-on sales of other Sony products (like High Quality WQXGA monitors).

Just makes too much sense...

 

There are very few people who even know what WQXGA is. Among most Z buyers, even fewer care.

 

Everyone knows what an Apple Cinema Display is.... If Sony would just make their own WQXGA and market it they would have sales.

 

Hi Louche,

Perhaps on some of your points we'll have to agree to hold differing views.

> "Some folks may want to keep in mind that for the Z's core group, which is small and is supposed to small (Sony does not want / intend this to be a mass-market machine)..." Some thoughts:

As far as the size of the target audience... Well you know, we always hear such pronouncements from the manufacturer when he can't sell more: "It's really intended just for the select few." If you can't sell a lot of them, snobbishly say "and we don't want to!"

But truly, if Sony could triple the base of well-heeled buyers willing to purchase the product, the number would still be 'small' in the overall scheme of things: by no means 'mass-market' and Sony would love it. It would still be a flagship product, but now one with more exposure / visibility and a larger base over which to spread design / development costs. And it would spur follow-on sales in related areas - as suggested by CC.

Apple sells lots of MBAs, yet it still has the 'cachet' Apple wants and its owners want. I don't believe Sony would feel otherwise if it could sell more but still position it (as they indeed do - by price) as a premium offering.

Rolex does the same thing. So expensive. But so well marketed that we love having them, and Rolex sells well all over the world - in spite of the high prices. So these attributes are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

> "...graphics are a minor, unimportant issue and will become even more minor over time as on-CPU graphics further improve."

I could definitely be mistaken, but I really can't see that happening. As business people and those who work with photos / videos, multi-layered drawings, authoring of complex documents, etc. continue to discover: more hi-res display space is always a plus. The appetite for enhanced graphics capabilities becomes insatiable, because it improves the productivity of those professionals who heavily populate the target audience for such hardware as the Vaio Z.

Also, as graphic capabilities continue to expand, the power requirements for high-end cards increase. I'm not expecting the on-board capabilities to catch up because, at a certain point (and unless there are very large breakthroughs in battery technology), the on-board power sources will prove incapable of driving these power hungry cards while still delivering acceptable battery life. To say nothing of the size / weight impacts of installing such HW (replete with heavy heat sinks, additional fans, etc.) in the main unit.

> Most people who spend $3-5k for a laptop don't play games or have a hobbyist's interest in DIY.

On this we concur. Still, even if their numbers are small I love them because (like racecar driving), they seriously "improve the breed" via their high-tech requirements - and we all benefit from that.

Sundial

 

For example, Apple advertises A LOT his MBA with 27" display.
Because she knows that more resolution with bigger screen, it "better" and adds work space.
Work space in business / graphic / video and photo editing is something REALLY needed.
At least, here in Italy in an Apple store which is near, they're selling a lot of 27" an MBA. I think that's the same online.

MBA it's a real competitor to Z. In performance, there's difference, but it's not enormous. And the iGPU is only a little lower (thanks to turbo).

If we also think to those who buy MBA and 27" only because.. it's big (and they're a lot), that same category is present in Vaio Z.

So in my opinion, low resolution for ext display has been a wrong decision.

The real cause for avoiding DP is that... it's a port pushed by Apple.

 

We know what an Apple Cinema Display is and Sony may eventually come out with a competitor -- but not on/for a Z, not anytime soon. Maybe they will come out with a Sony Cinema Display (SCD) for their Apple-like all-in-one desktop or for one of their larger-screened laptops.

Sundial, the Z needs to be seen as part of Sony's overall marketing strategy, not just a discreet product line that they try to sell as many of as possible. An analogy would be the Chevy Camaro SS Convertible. Chevrolet will likely never sell enough of them to recoup the development and production costs. They may not even want to sell that many for some technical, fleet average fuel economy reasons.

Instead of wanting to sell a handful of fast cars (or a double or triple handful) Chevrolet wants to add muscle car cachet to their entire line of vehicles. Similarly, expect that Sony figures that most of the sales from the Z won't be Zs, they will be less expensive Sony laptops that people buy because they think that the Sony is high-end cool, an impression to which the Z contributes.

Sony and Chevrolet's situation is very different than that of Rolex where everything they sell is a super-premium, luxury good. Sony's situation is also different than Apple. The MBA is near the bottom of the line for Apple, not the top. Hence, the MBA is the product they intend as their sales leader.

As for graphics, Sony already came out with their gaming machine with the F2 3D which may or may not need improvement, I haven't really followed that issue. For most executive-level users, graphics really are not that important beyond being able to play high-def videos and movies. The people who care about graphics performance beyond the ordinary, well, that's an important market but also a different one. The graphics market customers are going to be younger than the Z market (which has major marketing implications) and less willing/able to spend several thousand on a laptop.

As for the NBR-type Z-fan, that's just a small niche market. It's a nice niche that contributes to the Z's overall coolness factor but it remains minor from a design and marketing standpoint.

 

Btw, for impatient who have their WQXGA/WQHD monitors and would like to enjoy the full resolution with their new Zs before ViDock arrives, I have a quick'n'dirty hack:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/602724-success-2560x1440-support-new-vpc-z2-dell-u2711.html

I did this for Dell U2711 monitor (WQHD) but I see no fundamental reason why this would not work with other monitors.

You will need:

- Good HDMI->DVI cable (or adapter)
- DTD Calculator tool
- To enter custom DTD timing parameters describing your monitor's resolution

The only drawback/limit with this method is that you will be limited to 35 Hz refresh rate - this is because HDMI->DVI adapters/cables can only support single-link DVI (despite dirty marketing practices of some vendors that claim that they support Dual Link DVI - this is false, the only DVI DL thing they support are few additional pins in the connector that are probably not connected to anything)

And, of course, this "hack" clearly shows that there is a need for ViDock - I do not think HD 3000 is up to any serious job at those resolutions. This is just temporary "solution" until we can use some decent graphics hardware with VPC-Z2x.

 

(^ Good to hear that! But the problem is that you have to modify DTD data, registry hack and other stuff.. not a user friendly way and it's specific for every monitor.

By the way, good job.)

*****************************************************

The problem is that I'm seeing a different reality.

What I see in academic life and routine life is that those who have Z1 laptop are willing to change for MBA 13"... and they don't have any graphic need apart the need of drive 27"/30" monitors (some have them.. envy).

In addition, one of my professors don't want to upgrade to new Z since the lack of eGPU (he does some gpu computing in his office.. but he has also a workstation in laboratory when he needs enormous power). Even him is thinking of turning to MBA when TB eGPU will be out.

There are some people (with money) that don't look at it but prefers MBA since it costs less ( well.. 1500/1600$ for top MBA 13"... not so low price ) and does the same usual things. Get real, the classic business man don't need so much CPU/GPU power.. prefers high battery life, portability..and MBA still wins here. Normally he doesn't do heavy calculation work. Vaio Z is in a situation where its main market is reducing, at least here in academic life (both students and professors) and even in the company where my father works (those who have Z1 are thinking about MBA; those who have MBA will remain on it; those who have Samsung 9 are not looking at Z but at MBA 13" or not willing to change).

There are also those in video/photo editing: A couple of friends work with powermac workstation but have Z1 without ViDock: they're purchasing 2 MBA 13" waiting for TB eGPUs.

So, at least for the world is strictly around me, Vaio Z it's losing appeal.

Probably this is a strange/isolated situation.

 

^Well put. The Z2 is going to be found more in boardrooms (or boredrooms) than the classroom, lab, home office.

 

@Crystal1988,

I fully agree - what I did is simply a hack and it comes with a trade-off: 35 Hz refresh rate and the need to patch your driver settings in registry.

In addition to that, I think it is quite silly driving 2560x monitor with mobile SKU of Intel HD 3000, unless you are only using Office apps and surf the web. The performance for anything that is pushing and rendering 3D data is clearly going to suffer compared to a midrange discrete GPU.

So... we really need ViDock for LP This hack will just make us use the monitors in their native resolution until the real solution.

 

Yeah. But the point is.. previous owner of Z1 around me, are changing company (towards Apple).. and the problem is even business man, which is the main market for Z, is changing towards Apple, not always for home office but also for real office inside the company (always, for what I see in my real life through my father and some of his customers companies.. I've been able to see thousands of them since I had the chance to pay a lot of visits since he works in some way, in the same field of mine). That's my point.. And in Europe I think it happens more often because the same Z21 here costs 680$ more than US market taking into account same VAT taxation, while this difference for MBA 13" it's smaller:
with i7 and 256GB MBA 13" in Europe is @ 2350$ VAT included. In USA, taking into account 20% VAT (like Italy) it's 2040$ = 310$ difference. Even if we compare MBA 13" with 27" the difference will be 3777-3237=540$. Still below Z price. Obviously, the higher is the Z price machine, the higher the difference between US and European market.
It comes different talking about Vaio SA: with same identical specs we have 2012$ in Italy and 2130$ in US. In this case it's CHEAPER around 120$. Always with same taxation.
So, there's something "odd" in this Z, since with Z1 the difference was more like the one of MBA 13" (so less difference).

Well I guess you don't have PMD..

Anyway we cleared out everything about how to hack PMD. The only 2 problems are:

- do 3D vantage benchmark with PMD through internal monitor and then through an external one (disabling the other one) and see how much difference there's in performance (to guess if it's muxless or muxed)

- find somebody with BGA instruments to do what Nando4 said to.. I contacted Village Tronic to see if they want to do it. If somebody would loan it to them, they would hack it to see if it works and then they would reassemble it or leave as it is ( and I think that everybody would love to have it hacked XD) and resending it back to the onwer (they've already told it). The problem is that they need also the laptop... and nobody would risk to send it in China..

 

its actually hard to see an IT dept recommending an apple pc. I still get some jokes with my mbp 13, and Im a manager

 

^ I can assure you that from what I've seen, every company has problems somewhere with their laptops. It's like a statistical disease XD I've seen every kind of laptop to.. f**k up itself XD
Here in Italy it's becoming an "icon" also in IT field. I've seen Z - Portege - Samsun 9 - X220 - MBA .. everyone sometimes, somewhere, with someone (unfortunate) will have some problem. I can say that for what I know around me Z and MBA are the most reliable 13" laptops I've seen. Remember, it's my reality.. on among hundreds of thousands.

 

You'd be giving quite a lot of help to VT if you sent the PMD and Z2 to them. An important question to ask is what target price would VT set their final product and/or modded PMD product be? For yourself, the PMD is a pricey bit of gear and if a VD product costs another $500 and add the cost of someone doing the BGA mod and the video card, the cost would be staggering.

As you know, a PE4H costs $85, or $107 shipped and a PSU can be had for b/w $0-$40, is available now. So we are looking at 2-4 times cheaper from word go.

Considering the likelihood of getting a PMD 'loaner' would be difficult and the added complexity of sending it to China, perhaps then it would be worthwhile for interested Z2 owners to organise the loaner sent out to a SMT board manufacturer in the US to use as a test bed to make the parts to spec? The resultant kit could be sold at cost + 10%, a low buy-in price as incentive to do the mod and DIY mounting into a PMD with a PE4H as device hosting the eGPU.

I'd love to see a kit to do this that could be bought, mounted and reversed for $100-$150. The reversal and important point to bring the unit back to stock should it need to be resold like that later on. At that price it would become the 'must do' mod for a PMD.

Could even add an option of converting the HD6650M BGA mount point to be socketable, convert the HD6650M to a pin configuration with the user swapping the interposer chip at their whim. That's depending on clearance and the heatsink setup Sony are using.

 

My solder jedi can do just about anything, but we would need to know what to tell him to do.

The part I don't understand about piggybacking on the PMD is... do we need to fab some sort of BGA dummy chip? or can we have him just solder a bunch of leads right on to the points where the ATI chip gets de-soldered from?

 

but how to resolve the connection bandwidth problem?? Since it's of optical fiber.. how do we create a kit at 150$?

 

Fabricating a BGA dummy chip would be the way to go with vias (like pillars) going up the layers from which wires can then run off the chip. You want multi layers so as to concentrate wire leads and run them in parallel. That eliminates crossing wires which would otherwise add noise.

Such a BGA dummy chip would allow someone with an IR BGA gun to simply remove the HD6650M and mount this dummy chip. Wiring up 33+ wires onto a BGA mount point would cost a small fortune, be a PITA, likely not work and look like a (tech) dog's breakfast.

Just need someone to make such a kit for you guys at a low cost. Then can be sent worldwide and have the local tech genius do the BGA work. Could then create a table of locations worldwide of where to get the work done based on feedback from Z2 users. Such a table would be useful for other folks, ie: NVidia defected users from a couple of years back. There's a place in Australia that can be added to that list.

The Sony Z2 PMD's HD6650M to PE4H adapter would consist of:

- BGA dummy chip with wiring leading to a mountable panel containing 4 mini HDMI sockets. Optional: add wiring for Displayport + connector if we deduce the Z2 is using a muxed method to drive the internal LCD.

Then just purchase a PE4H + 4 mini HDMI cables + desktop video card + suitable PSU to drive it to have your complete desktop eGPU implementation that piggybacks off the PMD.

 

Uhm... difficult. Here there's no one I know that would be able to... it's always preferable a kit withou touching (which for me means buying) PMD, obviously.. but I know, it's rather complicated.

But not impossible. I read an article where Intel itself said that Apple has no exclusive in using thunderbolt technology and that every company could request to implement it in external devices and laptops.

MAYBE it's the same for Sony's Light Peak..

 

That would of course be the preferred solution as it could eliminate the PMD from the picture.

There once again you'd be looking to hijaak the copper x4 pci-e tracks and the DP lines from the Sony LP cable (assumed) and thread them through to a desktop video card. That could be done by simply mini HDMI and DP connectors on the end of it and the doing a straightforward cable attachment to a PE4H. It would be non-invasive (PMD) and be low cost.

It's doable if can get the pinout of Sony's LP cable and get a source for that cable other than ripping it out of a PMD.

 

Mmmmh... c'mon, let's make a rampage in some Sony Store!!! XD

 

Some Londoner's doing just that [which I do no endorse]. Bet you there will be some low priced PMDs hitting the UK market sometime soon.

 

^ little OT -> Speech by Brave Hackney Woman Against London Rioters/ Looters [SUBTITLED] - YouTube ...there may be all the poverty and bad condition / racist in that zone... but what this woman says is completely right.

By the way... what it's done it's done.. if there will be a low priced PMD on the market..

 

what I wanted to say is the common prejudice against apple products. I went to buy some ram for it on a store today. The guy who sold me said in a low tone that he lost the respect for me, when I pulled out my mbp.

Not to mention the common jokes about my sexuality because of the mbp.

Ignorance aint a bliss I will tell you

 

^ really??!?!? Here is the contrary ... if you have not an Apple computer, you're out. If you have not an iPhone, you're out! Even in IT / Business field, this kind of "feeling" is spreading...

Well, we can say that wherever you'll go, you'll find a different world

 

I registered to post in this thread. I get my Z21 next week, and while I don't completely understand everything in this thread what I do understand sounds awesome. I'd love to have a slightly more powerful video card to game on. I'd be willing to preorder this if they through something like that up to gauge interest. I don't use facebook though, so hopefully these guys read this thread and see the interest.

 

Please answer the questions below:
1) Graphics Card Power: ( 75 W | 225 W = 2 pcs 6 pin | 375 W = 2 pcs of 8 pin )
2) What Notebook do you own:
3) Purpose: ( Gaming | Photo/Video/Artwork | Office | Scientific )
4) Modular I/O is useful ( Yes | No )
5) Do you want to buy the ViDock PCB only or finished product ( Parts | Product )
Answering above questions allows us to give you the ViDock you want. Help us to help you

 

Tottenham Court road has quite a few tech places and I believe they got done. Sony's prestige making them a likely target.

open-source is preferred

You can see my bias towards open source hardware and software. Companies like Magma/VT/Sony will keep some information proprietory which is done for profiteering reasons. That policy then becomes a nuisance when for example, Z2 users want to attach a eGPU to their notebook but don't have the LP cable pinout to figure out how to do it.

If you find this policy annoying, then consider driving a non-profit project as a countermeasure to figure out that pinout or do the HD6650M hijaak. The final resultant product would be completely open and be at low cost.

It would also send a message to these companies that consumers want solutions ahead of profits and information hoarding.

 

@dmaownsyou: when you answer to those question, answer here -> https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=89321949134&topic=17792

If you don't have FB and don't want to create an account, write in this thread and I'll post it for you.

 

You make several good points. I do believe there are directional changes starting to appear in what this market will demand, but unfortunately (for us), those factors may as yet be way less than compelling to Sony.

So where do we stand? A logical conclusion (contrast up) from your points could be "Don't spend any time approaching Sony; it's just wasted cycles. For those interested in ViDock or DIY solutions, that's fine. But understand: you are a tiny niche audience of no interest whatever to Sony. If you care about this, put time / effort / $$ into solutions that don't involve Sony."

Would that be your counsel?

Or do you see a productive path to approaching Sony that has any likelihood of success...

Sundial

 

Well.. I'm not sure that this technology is proprietary... maybe it's like TB. It seemed proprietary but it's not (Intel said that Apple has no kind of exclusive..).... maybe.... ( it depends also if Sony made some modification to it..)

 

Unfortunately it's japanese...
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/ubiq/20110812_466241.html

IMHO for a Z compatible ViDock/DIY eGPU:
- An Intel Thunderbolt controller chip is mandatory
- You have to sacrifice a PMD (at least for the SONY proprietary cable)

 

1. Have a nice drink.

2. Repeat as necessary.

 

Very old Scotch or Cognac should do nicely!

 

Damn.

Yeah,and on PMD there 2 TB controller ... what I don't understand why they're sure that connection is 2*10 Gb/s for PCI-E bus (2X 2.0 or 4X 1.0) and 2*10 Gb/s for DP channel. There are normal TB controllers (so support for 4 channels and 80 Gb/s overall) -> optical fiber has enormous higher bandwidth limit -> one cable can be connected to 2 channels since there's a demuxer and muxer that can separate data on his own and redirect it toward the right channel. I say this cuz a 2X 2.0 real bus would give lower results in fps/benchmarks than what we saw.
I explain better now:

Here why I think this http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/pc...466/241/10.jpg
As you can see there are 5 couple of lanes.
The one at the center probably is not involved in real data flow (in fact you can see that from the cable there are only 4 "routes" entering the demuxer)
So we have four couple of lanes I think that 2 couple are for DP/USB/Ethernet/ODD channel/fiber and the other 2 couples are for PCI-E bus. This is the same of this apart the cables (in this image each cable was meant to bring only ONE laser light).
So each couple of lanes has 1 go and 1 back. And each couple of lanes is a channel. So, each lane is @ 12.5 Gb/s. Each channel is @ 25 Gb/s since bidirectionality. 2 channels per PCI-E is 50 Gb/s and 2 channels per DP and other stuff it's 50 Gb/s. Light Ridge TB (which you see in those pictures) sustain 20 Gb/s per channel since bidirectionality. So 40 Gb/s per PCI-E -> there's the ability to support 4X 2.0.

It makes sense.. apart the fact the I don't know if those declaration from that site about 4X 1.0 is their own guess from what said Yasuyuki Katase drom Division 1 Sony VAIO Network Products & Services Group or if it's something this man really said.

 

Louche,

Check - gotcha.

CC - I'll take whatever's in the glass on your avatar. Cheers,

Sundial

 

Please post my comment on Vidock facebook for me.
I don't have facebook.

1. I need Vidock for z21 too.
2. for Gaming and 3D engineering.
3. 4x.
4. usb3.0 port ,use as docking at home etc.

I have plan to buy z21 but I'm gamer ,HD6630 not enough for me.
So Vidock is my solution.
If they don't develope Vidock for Z21 and no anouncement about future of LP from sony (such as It will be new standard port for sony or launch 2nd gen of PMD in the future. I must change plan to MBA with TB Vidock.

Thanks.

 

^ jedip, your answers are not complete and they seem to be for the OLD question.

Take a better look at first post

 

Thanks for your msg.

1. 255w.
2. Used to be owen acer timeline 4820TG(gave it to my sister, prepare to buy Z21.
3. Gaming and 3D engineering.
4. Yes.
5. finished is better.

please post on FB for me.
Thanks.