Z1 + ViDock + GTX 570 > FTW (the Z2/PMD killer)

So here is my question...I just ordered a ViDock 4 Plus and GeForce 570. Now, can I still use the onboard GT 330 when I am not carrying the 570 dock with me? I want to use the internal LCD for all of this. I have a Z13 BTW.

Thanks,

Y2J

 

The GeForce GTX 570 seems to be listed as using
150 watts idle
330 watts loaded
GeForce GTX 570 Power Consumption and Thermals | bit-tech.net

But the ViDock4Plus is only capable to "accommodate graphics cards that require up to 225W."

Will this really work properly?

 

The only difference is the DIY aspect. ViDock is ready to go just add a card. DIY is DIY. You could run a stronger card with DIY because the ViDock4+ is limited to two 6pin connectors and 225W of power. DIY is not power limited, you could get a full ATX PSU and run a GTX590

Sure you can still use the 330M when you are not docked, you can even use it while you are docked, but there is some sort of conflict that causes performance degridation.

probably not much

Village told me specifically that the ViDock4+ would run a GTX570, I have also been running it for nearly a week with no problems. I don't stress it much though. See quote from Village below

 

Sure you can still use the 330M when you are not docked, you can even use it while you are docked, but there is some sort of conflict that causes performance degridation.


Is there any instruction on how to do this? I have found posts on ways to do the external ViDock + Internal LCD, but not sure how to keep the proper drivers installed for the 330GT as well when the ViDock is not plugged in.

Thanks,

Y2J

 

I don't use Hybrid/Optimus drivers.
I have the BIOS hack and my own modded drivers for the 330M, they are just the Vanilla nVidia drivers with a hardware ID added in for the 330M

So I have 3 graphic driver sets installed
latest Intel hd drivers
latest nVidia Mobile drivers with INF mod
latest nVidia Desktop drivers

I use the Tri Switch with the "Static VGA" BIOS setting to enable or disable the 330M at boot time

long story short, I can't help with the driver setup that you are trying to do. I did post a long set of instructions for how to do what you want earlier in this thread, I haven't tested it so I can't recommend it one way or another. here is the post with Optimus instructions http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/598920-z1-vidock-gtx-570-ftw-z2-pmd-killer-4.html#post7760611

 

Thanks. I appreciate the response. Probably won't have the ViDock till next week anyways, so I will keep researching. How long did it take to get to you when you ordered it?

 

I ordered from Sewell direct with Next Day Air AM... so I got it the next day, in the AM

 

Yes I have the BIOS hack just have some problems with the VAIO care after the BIOS flash but BIOS works good no prb and have no prb with the ViDock just love me Z more and more each day hope to buy myself a graphic card next month

 

I don't use VAIO care, so I don't have any problems with it. I install the bare minimum Sony stuff.

What is the loaner card you have now? You mentioned you grabbed it out of the office desktop.

Isn't it amazing how the Z1 continues to impress? Mine is 13 months old and I like it better than when it was new, a lot better actually.

 

I am wondering if it is possible to connect to a third monitor through the vga/hdmi dock on the Vaioo Z itself?

Also, is the BIOS Hack reversible?

 

Yes you can do that, there seems to be something with the 330M and the GTX570 together that makes it run a little choppy though, it does work. You can't run a monitor off the Z HDMI or Dock when you are running on stamina. I don't know about VGA though, haven't tried that.

Sure is, part of the process is to dump/backup your original BIOS, you can just flash it right back.

 

The VGA port on the dock is active under Stamina (Intel). You can use it with something like the Aluratek VGA to HDMI converter.

VGA to HDMI 1080p Adapter with Audio | Aluratek

This provides DVI/HDMI at up to 1920x1200 resolution and works great. The output is very crisp and clear, there is no degradation of the video. In fact, this is how I use my Z 100% of the time, both at home and at work.

 

why don't you just use a DVI>HDMI cable? Is it that you have some desire to be in stamina mode?

 

Yes, I like hearing the fan as little as possible, that's the only reason. Poor nVidia is largely wasted... but for browsing or Visual Studio work, I really don't need it.

Congratulations on the ViDock setup BTW, I've enjoyed reading about your adventure.

 

Did you try installing the ViDock without the BIOS hack? Also, seeing you're using an ATI card, is there any clash with the NVidia drivers? Can you unplug/plug the ViDock anytime you want without issues? Thanks!

 

No i didn't tried to install whitout BIOS hack but I'm sure it won't work without because you can't make the notebook to see you third GPU it will just not recognise the ViDock i suppose.About the ViDock and ATi GPU no there is no clash at all between the drivers it works very good with bought just that between the 330M and the ATi 5770 didn't find to much difference in playing games

 

I wrote that before. Even the top ViDock is underpowered for a GTX570. If Villagetronic claims it delivers enough power for each card that has two 6-pin connectors, they are wrong. If you want to get out all juice of the card while gaming, I am pretty sure the GPU will crash all the time or the ViDock PSU will run hot. If you don't game and do office work only, you can run any card. For my needs, I prefer a cool&quiet 15W GTX460 (which has two DVI-D + 1HDMI) instead of a 45W GTX580 in office use.

 

ahh I see, sounds very promising! but can you unplug the ViDock while playing YouTube videos? Will it just go green or will the screen freeze/BSOD? Thanksss!

 

So when running the 3DMark06 benchmark it would have been taking the extra power right? It made it thorough that OK. I would run some sort of stress test on it... got any ideas?

I haven't tried unplugging the ViDock without ejecting it first. I have a feeling it might freeze or BSOD if you did that.

 

Furmark. Be warned, this can really smoke your ViDock. The card, when under max load, is definitely too demanding for the VD4+ PSU. That it runs through 3DMark06 (about 4-5mins) does not say the system is stable in the long run.

Chance of getting a BSOD: 100%.

 

I find this a little disturbing since the people at Village told me that the 570 was fine for the ViDock4Plus. This was my main concern, after they assured me that it would work I went ahead and bought it. At least if I do "smoke the ViDock" I have proof that I was told it would work.

 

Hey, pyr0, I have been following this thread and read that you are currently using a DIY eGPU setup with a GTX460.

I am planning on doing the same, but with a ViDock4Plus. I am planning on using this for gaming so I want to get as much performance out of it as possible.

In the DIY eGPU thread nando4 mentioned that the use of Nvidia Optimus drivers significantly improve your performance if you have one of the correct Intel IGP. Intel HD was listed as one of the acceptable Intel IGP. Thus, I am wondering is it possible for a VAIO Z11 to use Optimus drivers and get that performance boost? If so I would greatly appreciate it if you can give me a few pointers as to how I should go about installing it.

 

Sure. A common 460 will give you about 15k 3DMarks06 which is a great number for a 13" laptop and is about 2.5 times as fast as the 330M builtin. For best performance, you want to mod your Z1's BIOS and activate static switching policy. This also gives you the advantage of being able to install newest graphics drivers for your Z but it breaks the hybrid switching stuff. You deinstall all current drivers, boot up with stamina enabled (tri-state switch), download and install official Intel HD drivers. Then get the NVIDIA mobile driver package and a inf that contains the desktop gpu hardware id's (see eGPU thread). Hotplug your external GPU, install NVIDIA drivers, reboot and you will have optimus enabled (you can check that with optimus tools, or in the nvidia control panel). This only works when you boot your laptop with stamina mode (Intel iGPU active, Nvidia 330M deactivated). If you boot up in speed mode, you wont see optimus mode engaged and you will only get a third of the setup's maximum performance. Also note that you need to run an external monitor from the GPU in order to get full performance and you can plug in your eGPU not until your VAIO logo shows up (you will get a black screen of death).

If you have any further questions, just drop a line here.

 

I have a question. If I choose to run it via the internal display, what type of performance hit will we see?

 

^You are stuck with Intel Graphics for the internal...or if you switch to nvidia performance will be poor due to a driver conflict. One of the reasons why the ViDock is more of a hack than a "PMD killer".

 

I thought I read it was possible and still was a huge gain over the 330m.

 

^I think cowboy said the vidock people said it may be possible. I think it's unlikely without a lot of work.

 

but...you can buy a PSU for a desktop computer and it will deliver more power to the card isnt it? Or you are saying that the PCB board where you plug the gpu card inst going to resist much power?

 

There are a number of Z11-Z13 eGPU implementation examples linked from the http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam.../418851-diy-egpu-experiences.html#post5324240 main page the Z11-13 entries extracted below. Much knowledge can be gained from the linked experiences.

Existing Sony_Z11, Z12, Z13 DIY eGPU implementations

System +owner's lounge

CPU [/span]

RAM GB [/span]

Video Card +enclosure[/span]

benchmk &OC[/span]

Setup Details [/span]

3Dmk6

RE5var

Experience [/span]

1.x<sup>1</sup>​

Ports<sup>2</sup>​

OS

13" Sony_VPC-Z11

i7-620M 2.66

8.0

[email protected]

16270

117.5

pyr0

-

HM57 EC

Win7/64

13" Sony_VPC-Z13

i7-640M 2.80

8.0

[email protected]

15867

-

kturnbull docusyn &

Y

HM57 EC

Win7/64

13" Sony_VPC-Z11

i7-620M 2.66

8.0

[email protected]

15623

116.0

MikjoA &

-

HM57 EC

Win7/64

13" Sony_VPC-Z12

i7-620M 2.66

8.0

[email protected]

15600

-

yuuma

-

HM57 EC

Win7/64

DX10-centric Performance: ensure PhysX is set to CPU in the NVIDIA control panel.

System +owner's lounge​

CPU​ [/span]

RAM GB​ [/span]

Video Card +enclosure[/span]

3dmark vant.gpu[/span]

dmcv4 scene4[/span]

Setup Details​ [/span]

Experience​ [/span]

1.x<sup>1</sup>​

Ports<sup>2</sup>​

OS​

13" Sony_VPC-Z11

i7-620M 2.66

8.0

[email protected]

17957

128.8

pyr0

-

HM57 EC

Win7/64

13" Sony_VPC-Z11

i7-620M 2.66

8.0

[email protected]

15426

117.7

MikjoA &

-

HM57 EC

Win7/64

13" Sony_VPC-Z12

i7-620M 2.66

8.0

[email protected]

11842

-

yuuma

-

HM57 EC

Win7/64

13" Sony_VPC-Z13

i7-640M 2.80

8.0

[email protected]

11686

-

docusyn &

Y

HM57 EC

Win7/64

 

The ViDock smashes the PMD. You can drive internal display with the ViDock.

pyr0 was saying that it runs even better in optimus mode on the internal display

It is

It does work. It is a much more simple process, see pyr0's instruction


Just to be clear, there are two ways to use the ViDock, you can use it as an external dock for the computer to drive big monitors and play games. You can also use it as a more integrated device that will drive internal display and external. Either way you will see massive performance gains over the 330M or Intel HD graphics.

For me all I care about is running a big external display. If you care about games then you will find that the Z2+PMD is lame compared to the Z1+ViDock. Lets face it the Z2+PMD is only slightly better than the Z1's 330M. Look at the WEI scores for my Z1+ViDock and the Z2+PMD. I've been told that it works even better with Optimus. I know WEI is crap, but it doesn't lie.

 

So let's ask this point blank. Pyro or any others, have you successfully managed to get the vidock to drive the internal LCD? If so, how?

 

There are two pre-requisites for NVidia Optimus to use the iGPU connected to the internal LCD to display images rendered by the NVidia eGPU:

(1) the NVidia eGPU must be attached before Win7 boots. Problem is some bios will not boot with the eGPU attached so the window required is after bootup but before Win7 starts up. Both the DIY and ViDock have jumpers to delay their video cards appearing on the PCI BUS OR you can stall the boot process (eg: hit F8), attach the eGPU and continue.

NOTE: the sleep, attach eGPU, resume method in Win7 of attaching after boot it will not allow the internal LCD to be accelerated by the eGPU.

(2) There is competition between the Nvidia eGPU and dGPU to become the Optimus device. A confirmed way of ensuring the eGPU becomes the Optimus device is to disable the dGPU altogether either via the modded Sony Z bios.

 

^So does it work or does it not work?

 

^ I have heard from multiple sources that it works... but I haven't tried it.

 

This is why I have a desktop AND a laptop 6970 triple screen eyefinity for gaming, and has no problem with my 30" dell.

For the type of gaming I do on my laptop, the 330m is enough as would the PMD. Dawn of War 2 run great on my Z, and that's the most intensive game I run while waiting at the airport or someplace where I have large amounts of time to kill. The Z screen is obviously awesome but if I want to do serious gaming, it's best done (for me) on the desktop.



problem solved
colors are off on the Z because it was already dimming the backlight due to inactivity.

 

Wow that's one sweet setup! I'd love to have one

Do the extra screens help in any way though during gaming? I mean, the FOV stays pretty much the same regardless of your horizontal resolution, so the side views on the flanking screens must be distorted...

Does it give you greater immersion?

 

This is going slightly off topic (although, not much because the Z2 supports eyefinity, right? )

but here are a couple youtube links of videos I made because of some requests

‪MVI 5068‬‏ - YouTube
‪MVI 5065‬‏ - YouTube
‪MVI 5034‬‏ - YouTube

they're in HD if you click options

 

This is going to be even more off topic. Could ViDock be used for something other than a graphics card? Since they may be comining out with an LP interface, it might be interesting to add an audio card with a MIDI interface and a few other tricks.

 

I think you can put any PCI-E card in there

 

That's what I figured. I could use a ViDock for something far more intersting (for me) than graphics. Kind of cool.

 

^ So would a Z1 with an awesome audio card in the ViDock be better for you than the new Z2?

 

Err the Z2 has advantages you didn't even care for. You're probably a desktop user so I wonder what you're doing with a laptop in fact !
it doesnt make sense to me. such users would save money and gain a lot of power with a desktop and a cheap netbook or tablet (or nothing)

The Z2 is a good bit lighter, and has a much improved power consumption as well as quieter fan for example.

That said its a shame the z2 pmd has a small video card. the z1 is still a good laptop. but certainly no replacement for the z2.

 

^ If you want a compact and light all-in-one solution and you dislike the PMD concept, a Z1 is probably the best laptop on the market.

 

Like what, slightly less weight, a little faster, and better battery life. The biggest advantage of the Z2 is that it is new and high end, so naturally I must have it.

I haven't owned a desktop in years.

I have expensive netbooks, two VAIO P Series, I also have UX490N, but a tablet?You must be joking?

They are nearly equal, I would say that unless you need the extreme battery life the Z1 is just about as good. For me it is not as much about need as want. But if you want to talk needs then the Z1 is better for me because I NEED to run WQXGA.


By the way I do need an ultra light laptop because I take it on the road. Sometimes I have to work on site, I am not going to drag a desktop with me on a train or plane, and a netbook won't cut it.

 

Good question. It's tempting but the first gen i7 just probably wouldn't have enough horsepower for at least some of what I would like to do although, depending on the card, if I could offload enough of the processing, maybe.

On the other hand, a Z2 with an LP ViDock would be just grand. Plenty of space on the SSD and enough RAM and crunching power. I could load the software I need off the PMD, do the heavy duty lifting with the ViDock and have a 2.6lb ultralight for everything else including a fair bit of light/medium audio processing. If I ever needed serious graphics/super hi-rez monitors, I could always get another ViDock. I'd have the PMD for movies, software and medium graphics, an audio ViDock and a video ViDock. Κεw£.

 

We are all quite eager to see what happens with ViDock support for the Z2. I WANT IT ALL!!!

 

Indeed!


/char10

 

Well the point is that i have an i7 2600K desktop with a 560ti that cost less than the vidock+570 and of course is faster (the gpu is slightly slower but the cpu is massively faster)
The Z2 is 1150gr and the Z1 is 1430gr its quite a diff. I'm not saying the Z1 is bad, all i'm saying is that its not a Z2 killer or something like that.

What you could say however is that the vidock is a PMD killer.. and that'd be right. Ridiculous card they've put in that. Can also say that the Z1 is more versatile, that's correct too.

Note that for many a tablet is a perfectly fine replacement while on the go, it doesn't mean it fits everyone.

 

I can say whatever I want, I am the Computer Cowboy, you can't really expect me to be objective.

 

The ViDock is definitely a Z2 Killer in my book, for the following reasons.

1. Like you said it is ridiculous that they put a AMD HD 6650M in the Z2. It is barely faster than the 330M so it really wouldn't let me play any games that I can't already play on my Z1. Thus in my eyes the Z2 is just as bad for gaming as the Z1. ViDock changes all that.

2. I need an extremely portable laptop that is "powerful" at all times. With the Z1 I would have the full power of the GT 330M wherever and whenever I should need it. I don't and can't plan all my computing needs. I would like to be able to get off work, head to a friend's place and play a few games or edit photos/videos while waiting in a coffee shop without having to plan for it. The lack of a decent graphics card in the Z2 kind of take that away from me... for pretty much nothing.

3. I believe at a certain point a laptop doesn't really get more portable... In my eyes the 13" MBA/Z2 is just as portable as my Z1. As long as its 13" less than 1" thick and 3 pounds or less, my arms can't tell the difference.

4. I always hear people make the point that we are better off with getting a gaming desktop and a cheaper laptop. For most people I would agree, since it is cheaper. However, how would such a setup solve my needs in point number 2? Not to mention I really can't stand transferring/installing files/programs from one computer to the other just to use them. If you use mods in games like Dragon Age or have a large iTunes library you should understand what I am talking about.

I have tried using Dropbox/Firefox sync/etc to sync data between my computers but the experience just isn't the same. This may not be a big point for many people, but for me it is the main reason why I am so happy with my Z.

In conclusion, the Z2 killed the Z series for me and IMO many of the existing Z owners. I am sure many of them share the same needs I have listed or else they would have went with a desktop/laptop setup like you suggested. Whereas for the Z2, I am actually better off with a desktop/laptop setup. I can used that money and buy a top of the line desktop while continuing to use my Z1. I would have a more powerful laptop and desktop experience. How I see it, the Z2 wasn't targeted at Z1 owners. IMO not a wise decision since I don't think there are that many people in the market of buying top of the line ultra-portable Sony laptops and not already a Z1 owner. Not to mention the fact that it is now competing with buying an upcoming sub-$1000 "Ultrabook" and a desktop.

I wish for the Z3, they will have a PMD that have a PCIe slot like the Vidock. IMO they could have done that with the Z2 with minor changes.