Microsoft prepares U-turn on Windows 8

The problem is by not offering Win7, or a fixed win8, to all new non tablet systems they are forcing Win 8 on all new system purchases as is. As per the 1%, OMG best laugh of the day, please keep it up.

BTW of the 100+ people I have personally talked to ( IE no net etc.) not a single one has said they liked it, I mean not a single solitary one, nada, none, zilch. Also not a single one you will hear from here as they never post to tech forums or elsewhere as they are all about mid to lower end casual users. Now to these users they don't complain about Win 8 they just know they don't like it so they won't buy it. Future Apple users? It may become a choice of price over likes/inconvenience and I am left with no argument to the otherwise..............................

Edit; I have yet to know of a user with a tablet running Win8 RT or full. Everyone I know has either Apple or Android. So I can not comment for those users..............

 

The numbers are out there, and they are entirely clear: Windows 8 is a failure, and so are Microsoft's tablets. The difference between the Surface RT and the Pro is just one of degree: The RT is an abject failure, the Pro is just a failure.

I won't bother to comment on the remarks regarding Microsoft's stock performance. I'll just say that the kinds of views presented on this topic in here are laughably naïve, and leave it at that.

 

As a gamer, I don't care about bringing start button back, I had that problem resolved day 1....

I want an overhaul if DirectX so that we can get some serious performance boost for PC, to close gap to console. It seems you need 10x console power to do what consoles do on PC. To the metal development as its called. Its not news that DX has massive API performamce overhead. I hope MS works with AMD and Nvidia to improve drivers on Windows and better performance.

 

If you're not going to comment, don't comment. If you're going to comment, say something substantive instead of just sniping at other users.

The fact is, people on this forum have been saying for months that Microsoft is in a tailspin, and that it's going to face financial ruin, a purge of its upper echelon, or worse. This CANNOT be reconciled by a stock price that has risen steadily since December 2012, recently hitting a five-year high. The popular narrative on NBR simply cannot be reconciled with these numbers.

 

TBH, I do not know the present mechanics of why M$ is not in a tail spin other than however you look at it there is no real competition out there. Why be afraid of loosing customer base where there is no one to loose them too? My fear is they have left the door open to loose them someday. Since most systems already running Windows 7 even a few years ago will be good till close to 2020 when support ends they may not need replacing.

The problem could lie earlier than 2020 for those who need a new system for school or otherwise. With little to no new Win7 systems available M$ may loose these users. This could take a long time to see but it only takes one panic from investors. While M$ could probably survive one or two of these it could make investors very leery.

No matter what M$ is entrenched in our culture. There is no way overnight that they are going away. There is no doom and gloom over what will be tomorrow. Long term though may be an entire different story. We only have ourselves to blame. There was an anti trust suit that could have made it impossible to do what it has done. We however just let chips fall as they may with the slap on the wrist M$ got. We let them stay big and told them we like it that way. So this is what we get and who is out there to stop them? As it stands no one is the answer........................

 

All the pomp and circumstance MS is putting into the Blue update, it gives me an opportunity to use a quote from a new favorite show of mine. With all the [screw] ups in Windows 8, their gonna have to buy a lot of spray cans to paint that turd gold.

 

Not even close. Play your games at 720p and absolute lowest detail at 30 fps like consoles do and you can run most games fine with a desktop 8600 GT video card and Core 2 Duo. And now, most newer games, you can't even run them on PC at a detail as low as consoles use. Not to mention limited multiplayer map sizes, etc. You only need 10x the power if you're running 1080p high/ultra detail and want 60 fps.

 

as much as win8 is a failure, and as much as xbox sales have hit a plateau two years ago or so; the fact that xp is reaching its eol and many enterprise customers are switching to win7 is whats driving microsoft's income stream. and its a bigger income stream than consumer based sales of win8 was projected, iirc.

 

These two are related, because what comes after the ellipsis is incorrect and leads to the statement before the ellipsis. Every single non-touchscreen Thinkpad is currently available with Windows 7. Same with every single Alienware and I suspect every single non-touchscreen Dell and HP business-class machine. Windows 8 is the exclusive choice for touchscreen devices (because Windows 7 isn't very touch-friendly) and for mainstream consumer devices (because the license is cheaper, since Microsoft can make money down the line off Xbox Video rentals and the like), but Windows 7 is still widely available on business-class machines and gaming machines.

And that's not going to change any time soon. If I recall correctly, business-class machines could be bought with XP well into the Windows 7 era, not to mention the Vista era. Because businesses (like mine, which is still primarily XP with some Win7 mixed in) often prefer to run a three-year-old OS over a brand-new OS regardless of the UI simply because it's tried and true.

Ignore about the sequential numbers and think about Windows 7 and Windows 8 as parallel products. Both are supported, both are for sale, and both will be available on relevant types of new hardware for years to come.

As for Windows 8.1, I don't know that it's so much a U-turn as it is a big step forward on discoverability. Even Windows 8 enthusiasts like me have been maintaining since launch that Windows 8 doesn't do a good enough job of teaching users how to use it effectively. That's why I made a tutorial and put it in my signature. That's why individual metro apps from Microsoft (news, finance, etc) have gradually gained UI elements that make it more obvious how to manipulate the app. And now Win8 as a whole is going to get a similar update. That's not abandoning the Windows 8 concept, it's improving it. And for everyone who just plain hates Windows 8...well Microsoft still offers Windows 7 and will for years to come. That's why investors aren't fleeing because some people really don't like Win8.

 

The good news is, if you want to call it that. You can now buy a Dell XPS-10 w/ W8 RT 32GB for $199 with a computer purchase and the 64GB is $249.

 

As far as systems with Win7, go to BB, as an example where average consumers would go, and see how many non touch Win8 systems there are! This is the issue, if OEM's were directed by M$ to only install Win8 on touch systems as it is not a PC non touch OS then a lot of complaints would fade away. Also the same can even be said going over to Newegg. As it is for OEMs, as you mentioned, who only use Win8 on touch systems, this is would be by their and not M$ directive.

Just purchase a new system and try and get the OEM to help install win7 let alone support the system afterwards. Now will others follow suit with Win7 on non touch, I guess time will tell. So long as M$ allows it then this could become a trend. I am not sure of the economics involved with changing the lines to Win7 with any R&D, support changes and the like. This may not be viable for some of the low cost systems as profit is probably low if almost non-existent to begin with.

 

Trouble is, and this is one of the more severe miscalculations around Win8 in general, many people do not want touch, period. Certainly, if I was buying a desktop or laptop system, I would not want a touchscreen. I have absolutely no use for it, so I don't want to pay for it, end of story. In my opinion, touch only makes sense for tablets (and convertibles). Then the next big question is, how many people are interested in tablets and convertibles? Sure, there's clearly lots and lots of them, BUT, here's the rub: People want these devices for their apps. What apps are there for Windows tablets?

[Crickets...]

So then we're at the central question of: How many people are interested in Windows 8 tablets? Well, just look at the sales numbers. Most models offered by OEMs are already being priced down at fire sale prices, and will vanish from the marketplace soon. The Surface RT is bound to be dropped within a year of its debut as well. With these gone, and WP going nowhere either, Microsoft's entire strategy around their Metro GUI is in shambles.

P.S.: And, no, this does not mean that Microsoft's very existence is in question. But it means that the design of the brave new Windows 8 ecosystem has failed. That's all.

 

I'm glad you've acknowledged that people want convertibles/powerful tablets.
Now, I wouldn't say people want these two machines because of the apps.
As you'll see, laptops will become extinct. They will become redundant. The market will shift towards convertibles simply because they are lighter and slimmer and you can still pack modern components into them. People don't care about apps, they're fine with Windows 8 on a tablet. Why do you think manufacturers continue to make tablets with Windows 8 and atom processors? They are lightweight and it can handle most applications that the normal Joe would use.

In the next 6-10 years, seeing a laptop will become a rarity. Why do you think Microsoft is heavily investing into the Surface and pushing advertisements on TV all the time? They're very aware that it's the future and windows 8 is right there to compliment the transition from laptops to touchscreen convertibles.

 

TBH, if Windows 8 were released where the desktop were easily accessible as it originally looked from the Beta with all the features I would have upgraded in a heart beat. After that I would have got an RT tablet rather than the Android I have for consumption. I fully believe I would not have been alone in doing this either. My next step may have been a WP as well as I need to upgrade soon there too.

This to me is M$ greatest error! They should have lured in their current user base with what they want and can easily use, not drag them kicking and screaming. This is spilt milk though, now it is time to clean it up and get it right. If not and they leave the opening there long enough some one will see the market and fill it. The problem with Win7 on new desktops is it does not drive win8 sales. Now a fixed desktop Win8 may eventually drive Win8 rt tablets etc.

So the best thing IMHO is to fix Win8 for the desktop to what users originally wanted. Also make a fully integrated Outlook app accessible by either metro of desktop so that people can synch properly their desktops and tablets and phones.

The thing Ballmer needs to realize is when you bet the company bets can be lost. Whenever there is a bet there is a winner and a looser. Because of all the things done it seems Ballmer is willing to bet against all the consumers, EOMs and everyone else. Just not a good bet in my opinion and it seems many others as well.............

 

I heard the same thing about the desktops a decade ago and it still hasn't happened...

 

Im my opinion each device has it's own niche relating to size, power, and capabilities. Manufacturers don't want you to have one device that does everything, they would rather you buy one for each need. A smartphone for your pocket, a tablet for reading, travel, and for your kids to play games, a laptop for mobile computing (and gaming), and a desktop for serious computing and gaming. Microsoft, AMD, Intel, Nvidia all want to sell hardware and software for multiple devices. They want you to think that you need a tablet or maybe an ultrabook when you really don't. Touch is nothing but a gimmick and it will always loose out to a keyboard and mouse, especially when it comes to entering text. I would argue that it is more likely that our smartphones eventually overcome tablets and desktops and laptops continue to sell for the next decade. The only caveat is if a new technology evolves to make the keyboard and mouse extinct, that could be a possibility.

As technology advances to allow hardware to become smaller we will see laptops and desktops become smaller, lighter, and more powerful, but tablets will never totally make them extinct. This evolution of machines will happen slowly and in small increments because that it how companies make money. They market the next big thing to you incrementally so you have to continue to upgrade, or at least so you think you have to. IMO laptops and desktops have their place, and smartphones and tablets have theirs. The only thing that will become extinct are the hybrid devices in between the two that claim they can do everything, but so so. Truth is that desktops and laptops don't need touch on a vertical screen, and tablets and phones can't have keyboards or mice because then they wouldn't be tablets, they would be small laptops. Microsoft screwed this up by cramming touch down our throats, and it remains to be seen if they can rebound from this mess.

Tablets may have their place in the market at the moment, but I would argue they are at risk of becoming extinct and not the laptop and desktop. According to Google the future of computing as a whole relies on speech recognition and vision, or reliable text entry and interface manipulation;

I admit it is difficult to predict the future landscape of computing without knowing the hardware capabilities that lie ahead. Tablets will always suffer from inferior text entry and imprecise touch mechanics and by the time this new technology (that the Google execs are talking about) is released, tablets will be obsolete and people will be wearing their computers as an accessory (like glasses, or a watch). Even if it comes to this I have a feeling that desktops, gaming consoles, and laptops will always serve a purpose and have a market. Whether it be gaming, computing, business, entertainment, etc people are still going to want to view their content on a large screen at least some of the time.

 

Heh, you're quite the prophet, are you?

Now that one's hilarious. It's ALL about the apps. Why do you think it is that nobody buys a Surface RT? Oh sure, a few people have bought them by accident. Lots of those have been returned promptly...

No idea. They have contracts with manufacturing companies. As far as I can tell, it looks like just about all of them are trying to dump those things and get out of that losing business as fast as they can.

 

I'll just say one thing about Windows 8 PC apps. By and large, they stink. Two of my favorite apps (Tunein Radio and iHeart Radio) share NO resemblance to the iOS and Android counterparts. The UI is appalling, they have a propensity for crashing and neither developer gives a flip as they have NOT been updated since their arrival on Win8.

I'm still of the belief that Win8 should have been an evolution of Win7 and that the current Win8 should have had a totally distinct new name. It would have allowed MS time to smooth out all the rough edges and refine the new OS. It could have also allowed MS to introduce a new FS and dump all the past legacy code and they could have moved forward with a fresh start and make it x64 only.

 

That's what I find most hypocritical about these kinda replies without any real substance or numbers behind to support bases claims that have nothing to show for it. They said that about cd being replaced by dvd and guess what cd are still are around and wasn't BD to replace DVD and guess wrong again they still have DVD/CD. So we need a reality check here surface was a flop and will be known for that and any amount of spin does it no service. Tablets will come and go but the Desktop and Laptop will still be king and rule over most other products. Think hard and slow what do you think was used to designed and created the tablet/surface and most things you use now and today. hmm... A desktop/Server and laptop what else..for one to dismiss those two very valuable hardware and think those others just pop out of the ground is very lacking in history and knowledge how it came about and what it is now. And how those that use it today take it for granted and fail to reflect back in history where computers came from and how they got created and for what purpose.

 

I'm sure Lenovo will still be selling a ton of regular thinkpads to business.. even then. In fact, its ironic that the one oem (lenovo) that is having growth is the one who keep W7 configurations on most of their systems. Even newer models like the X1 cabon still allows the user to choose the less heavy non touch screen model with W7. Sony who has completely dropped W7 is having real issues with their business customers. At least that is what a rep told me from Sony the other day. Lots of broken legacy applications. Sure maybe business will transition to some point to convertibles. But I don't see much value added for business to want W8 in its current form which causes productivity issues. But in 6 years when W7 nears its end of product life cycle I'm sure whatever is around will be more digestible for enterprise.

The real question will be if blue brings back the start menu or just a link to metro start page. If MS digs in and puts a link, then the debate where all this is leading will be unknown and I don't think that is good. People not liking it will probably stay with their current W7 notebook and continue buying Android/IOS devices. No doubt some may buy into W8 when the newer haswell systems ship and when OEMS continue to improve on future designs. I'm hoping that MS does the right thing and puts in a switch to allow users to remain in Desktop. Wishful thinking on my part.

 

Am I the only one here who love Windows 8? To me, Windows 8 is the step forward over its predecessor. It runs better than Windows 7 under the hood especially couple with UEFI, which most of modern computer manufactures are implementing instead of BIOS. The start menu us just the big one on the screen. It isn't that bad. Well, it takes some learning curve, but it isn't that hard. I make permanently switch to Windows 8 and not looking back.

 

It's not about learning curve, it's about work flow. I can learn to use Windows 8 just fine. It just is a step backwards from a workflow standpoint and reverting back to 1990's OS style.

 

Can you give me the example?

 

You may be one of the few and far between. A lot of us miss other features as well.

1.) For me first off would be Aero Glass, those title bars just annoy me to no end.

2.)The fact of Gadgets being ripped out. There was no sudden security risk but to listen to M$ you would think the world was about to end at any moment with them being allowed.

3.) No start menu, myself I could have lived without.

4.) Although not in the beta a boot direct to desktop would have been nice.

5.) Although not in the beta options to disable metro applets and just allow original apps (IE PDF) would have been nice.

I am sure the list can be added to as well. Just a few to start with, now advanced users can overcome these somewhat but there is the rub. IT's who need to support these systems need commonality! If you have to support 1,000's of systems (OEM's) with all different methods of accessing the start menu or control panel or shutoff and reboot etc. Then over the phone you just can't seamlessly do so. Especially to non techies who may not even be the ones who modified, if they even realize it is, the system.

This last reason is why unless Win8 is fully fixed I will not install or support it with my friends. I could have handled just a start menu but the possibility of several hacks and methodologies just compounds the problems and issues.................

 

IMHO the biggest issue with workflow is once you are at desktop you want to stay there. As you open each program or associated file you want them to open desktop programs and not access Metro or metro version apps. Again there are multiple fix's or hacks but then if there is an issue you have to figure out what isn't stock anymore and what specifically was done to fix it. Unacceptable.................

 

The biggest problem I have with Windows 8 is the lack of flow and consistency. Prior to W8 everything was based off of the Start button. So in order to launch Command Prompt in admin mode you now have annoying additional steps that really aren't necessary.

It's like knowing all the answers to the questions on the test and they purposely changed things to get you off balance. I can tolerate W8 but I can definitely see how it can irk users to no end. MS needs to face the fact that PC sales have been permanently hurt buy iOS and Android devices.

This is why they should have introduced W8 strictly for Tablets. Even their approach is typical Microsoft. You buy a Windows 8 Tablet and 65% of the space is taken up by the OS and apps so you need to buy a SD card to expand things.

 

First of all, I would like to thank you for taking time to discuss with me. I will begin to roll out Windows 8 on my network on Monday, so I need some feed back from general users. Let me answer your questions one by one.

1. I don't know about Aero interface. It is personal preference. I will skip this.
2. I don't really care about gadgets. It is how thing evolves in computing world. MS replaces it with app.
3. The start menu on Windows 8 is the big one in front of you when you boot the OS. I will tell my users to use Windows key to switch between start menu and desktop. Here is my take on MS behalf, when user boot up the OS, they can click what they want in front of them. For example, if users want to check email, they just click it on Outlook icon. In addition, Windows 8 start menu works the same way as the old one, you can just type to search program right away.
4. I am sure Windows 8.1 will fix that.
5. You can disable app on Windows 8. IE app is different from desktop mode. It is just the way it is being designed.

Actually, I am deploying that many desktop, but we are getting trainer to come to train users. If you look past the interface, Windows 8 does run better than Windows 7 especially with UEFI as I mention earlier. It is more secure. Here are the benefit of running Windows 8.

1. Antivirus is included. It runs without user interference.
2. File History, you might want to check that out.
3. Boot and shutdown faster than Windows 7.
4. User profile doesn't mess up easily like Windows 7. I think MS fixes it in this OS.
5. Better file transfer performance and better task manager.
6. It come with Hyper-V!! You don't have to buy VMware workstation. Finally, MS gives us better VM software than crappy Virtual PC.
7. IE 10 offers better performance and more security than IE9.

The OS is not perfect by all means, but it is a step forward in my book.

 

Actually it is the user interface most are upset with, so you can't look past that. Behind the scenes yes Win 8 is an improvement, no one is suggesting otherwise. As far as the start menu, that is fine if you just need to launch one app but to constantly go back and fourth? As far as non metro associations without hacks or a lot of work there is no easy way to get rid of them. An option to do so would be nice.

Gadgets, I like them and a lot of users do as well. I mainly monitor the system with them. M$ essentially called them the Black Plague and gives us no option for them. While I know these compete with metro apps M$ should get over it and allow the option for users that want them. Users can then access Metro apps when they need something more robust.

IE10, I know there are a lot more sites I need to use compatibility mode with than before with IE9. I haven't researched it out fully so I can not comment other than IE 10 is available for windows 7 too.

Aero Glass and break DWM was the last straw for me. The visuals just gnaw away at me. my eyes just keep getting drawn to those Fugly title bars. Aero Glass is a preference of most users.

who cares with an SSD if I can shut down or boot up 5 seconds faster. Those few seconds are wasted the first time I need to get off that start screen let alone other hindrances the rest of my session. Most others agree here as well.

People were expecting a better overall OS, with more eye candy, a smoother GUI and more WoW factor, what they got is Win8...............................

 

It is no secret that the Windows 8 OS was designed with touch interface in mind, and that is the problem. It is fine for tablet and touch centered machines, but it is impractical for desktops and laptops that don't require it as their main interface. Touch is nothing new and it certainly isn't the future either, especially desktops and laptops. They both have perfectly adequate input systems that are more efficient than touch. The touch interface should have been a secondary feature that could be enabled and disabled instead of having the entire OS depend on it.

IMO touch is not an upgrade, it is a gimmick for sales and Windows 8 was supposed to help push people in one direction. I even considered buying a laptop with touch capabilities at one point, but I quickly realized its flaws after playing with a few at Best Buy. Windows 8 should have two different versions, one for tablets and hybrids, and another for non touch PCs. It is that simple and Microsoft should have seen this coming. They are forcing a change that is impractical and IMO is merely a fad. Touch based OS are not the wave of the future, and it shouldn't be the main focus. I argue that reliability, compatibility, and efficiency should be the main focus of an OS' design. Windows 8 is a one trick pony that only serves the needs of a minority of users while trying to boost sales of apps and touch based hardware.

 

I must be a black sheep in here then. I agree with you that IE 10 has some incompatibility issues. Don't all the software does at some points? I admit that I have to use compatibility mode on this website too.

Yes, MS should give users some choice, but it is the way it is. I don't monitor my system that much. I let OS does its job for me. SSD is a very good option, but the problem is price and capacity. Regular hard drive with Intel Smart Response Technology seems to be a good solution to SSD, and Windows 8 takes advantage of that just fine.

Hyper-V, security feature, and better performance aren't enough wow factor for you? The reason I like IE 10 on Windows 8 because it integrates flash plug-in into the browser. I can deploy update through WSUS. Can you imaging if I have to patch flash player on 1500+ Windows 7 machine? I was a nightmare for me. It is easy for users to because they don't have flash update notification to nag them. Just set automatic update and forget about it.

I don't know about SSD on desktop. I run multiple storage servers, and I still rely on either SAS or SATA drive, but we are talking about laptop, so it is irrelevance here. My point is Windows 8 does better with traditional hard drive and even better SSD. I can't comment about productivity. It seems like you have to click start menu to launch a program regardless. It doesn't make a whole lot of different for me to use "Windows key" or move my mouse a little further to the corner or I just create a short cut on my desktop. The experience should be the same for me.

From my experience, Windows 8 runs better on ultrabook too. I would not be able to carry laptop your size around or I need to work out more. LOL! Hey, I respect your opinion, but I still think Windows is more polish than Linux counter part. Yep, I use Red Hat too. It doesn't work well in my environment, but it is on another subject.

Please don't get me wrong. I don't work for MS. I don't agree with everything they do such as what they do with Exchange 2013. I want to scream at MS to give me back edge server role like Exchange 2010, but I have to suck it up and either hold for SP or move on. There is nothing perfect in life, I guess.

 

So because it makes your job as IT easier, it's better? That's like a mechanic saying they like working on car X because it's easy to repair, but the vehicle breaks down frequently and has tons of quirks, so the consumer is screwed. I don't see that as a benefit for users in any way, shape or form.

 

Where I used to work they drove all updates through a server. All they had to do was set the server to update the images and bang, done overnight.................

 

BFD. How hard is it to download MSE? It runs without user interference.

Ever heard of "Previous Versions"? Do you understand the differences between that and "File History"? There's very significant downsides of the latter. Come back once you understand these.

Not true on modern hardware. On Ivy Bridge and above, Windows 7 boots exactly as fast as Win8.

You "think"? Where did you get that idea? What do you mean by "user profile mess up" anyway?

For the latter, who cares? For the former, sometimes...

Again, who cares?

Yep, and significantly reduced compatibility.

 

No. Again, repeat after me: There is no meaningful difference in performance between Windows 7 and Windows 8, period.

 

Apparently I'm one of the few people who find Windows 8 to be pleasant to use. I have yet to find a single thing that takes longer or more effort on Windows 8 than Windows 7. There is a keyboard shortcut for every action I want to use. As a "power user" I can do run everything I need to quickly by just using Windows + X.

I used to have a start button program and also booted directly to the desktop, but I decided to go back to Windows 8 the way it was meant to be. I find it no problem at all that I have to press Windows + D to get to the desktop after start up, as it literally takes a split second to do...Especially considering how much quicker Windows 8 boots for me than Windows 7 did.

 

LOL! this is tough crowd here. I guess I don't know what to say. I guess I should not begin to post about this topic. I am not going to lengthy explanation here since everyone is entitled to his opinion.

To HTWingNut, I don't think OS is easily to break like a car. It is definitely more stable than its predecessor. I also don't think it breaks everything like you say. I know that IE10 doesn't play nice with WebEx and some older applications. It is quite normal for new OS. It happens in the past, and it will happen again with the release of new OS regardless Windows, Mac, or Linux.

TANWare, updating machines on campus or corporate network isn't just BAM, and it is done. If you talk about WSUS, it only patches Windows product. It doesn't patch another application. If you want to patch another application, you have to deploy something like SCCM 2012 or Dell Kace . For example SCCM (System Center Configuration Manager) will depend on Active directory infrastructure and SQL database, and etc. It is kind of complicated on large network but I am not going to go through detail here.

Prix, you are the tough one since you pick my statement apart. What can I say? If picture of folders inside user profile is changed with random album art, is it a good example? Flash update also causes IE to freeze is also another example. File History and Previous Version are kind of different. For one thing, File History can be sync on network drive, and a little more granular than previous version. It works seamlessly on user, and user can restore file by himself. I also think task manager on Windows 8 is a whole lot better than Windows 7. I don't know what to tell you.

I don't think you will be so excited that Server 2012 can utilize more than 4 virtual processor cores unlike Hyper V on Server 2008 R2. For me, I can push server even more. It translates more bang for money to me. Don't forget that Windows 8 also integrate better with SkyDrive than Windows 7.

If Ivy Bridge use UEFI, Windows 8 will boot faster. Don't forget that Windows 8 can utilize Intel Rapid Start technology. I don't think Windows 7 can. Hey, I didn't know that you don't virtualize things, but I do at my work and for myself. It is kind of big deal for me. Finally, you have your point, and I have mine. I always welcome new technology since I always have to adapt to make money anyway.
s
I still resist to change on other things such as deploy IPv6 on LAN. Some places that I know deploy IPv6 full time with IS-IS, but we are going to save that for network portion.

 

You missed my point. It's called an analogy. Bottom line is that if it pleases the IT support crew more than using/paying customers then there's an issue, all I'm saying.

Apparently you haven't used Windows 7. Win 7 does everything Windows 8 does. It's ironic that you have to use Windows shortcuts on a predominately touchscreen OS isn't it? Just pressing extra keystrokes to get to desktop, that right there is one of dozens of extra things you have to do to reach a semi-usable desktop. Guess what, I can boot into Win 7 desktop without third party add-ons, without touching a key. I don't have to deal with dual OS's. This is like Microsoft BOB all over again.

The fact that Win 8 boots quicker has nothing to do with Windows 8 only that Win 8 machines use UEFI which has been available for years and Win 7 boots just as quickly with UEFI.

 

It most certainly can. And, as previously stated, on recent machines, W7 is as fast to boot/shut down as W8...

 

There are plenty of people who like it or at minimum don't mind it; it's just that people who really hate it tend to be more vocal than people who really like it. This is typical of internet feedback for everything.

 

No idea what you are talking about.

I've never seen that, but even if that is the case, then it's a problem with Flash.

Uhmm, yes, that's the whole point, in fact: File history does not work with a local cache.

And I repeat: Who cares? How often do you need task manager, as a standard consumer?
By the way, following the approach that Microsoft claims it has taken in eliminating the Start Menu, by following information from their metrics, I think they should have eliminated Task Manager along with the Start Menu. They should have put it on the Start Screen, ideally available only through one of those great Live Tiles, which you'll never see when you need them. Awesome UI, that...

Unfortunately, you think wrong. My one-year old Samsung Series 9 (Windows 7, of course) uses Intel Rapid Start. Cold-boots to desktop in about 7 seconds.

 

Yep, I didn't think this poster would have any sort of objective evidence for this interesting conjecture, anything at all to back this up. Idle speculation is all there is here. Well, mixed in with some implicit whining about how we Win8 critics are so mean and unfair. Cry me a river...

 

Pirx,

I surrender. I was wrong about Intel Rapid Start. I was meant to say Intel Smart Response Technology, and I am sorry about the mix up. Anyway, it is pointless for me to argue with people in this forum. I think it is time to keep my mouth shut. I will keep opinion to myself and move on.

 

Hi, not trying to add insult but for accuracy this was introduced for version 10.5 back in may 2011. It has been available since.

Smart Response Technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AnandTech | Intel Z68 Chipset & Smart Response Technology (SSD Caching) Review

 

+1, My experience as well, count me as one of the few then, except that I didn't even had use a start button replacement or boot to desktop.
My 1564 always gets put into sleep mode so no Metro to be seen on wake up. I'm getting used to the start button being gone and if it gets returned in 8.1 I may just turn it off (or keep it turned off) because win+x and keyboard shortcuts is the faster way for me personally.
As for the metro interface, it doesn't really bother me that it's there since I don't use it anyways so couldn't care less if it gets removed or turned off.

~Aeny

 

While at the moment no fan of Windows 8 here I'll agree with the start button not being there. As mentioned in many a prior post I primarily use Rocket Dock for all program launching. There is no access to the start button or menu here.

 

Just to briefly reply to the "one of a few" crowd: No, I'm sorry, but you're not one of a few. My guess is that there is a substantial portion of Windows users who at least don't mind the Windows 8 UI, and still a good portion who consider it an advance over Windows 7. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that either: More power to you.

The issue is that there is also a substantial portion of the Windows user community who have been left out in the cold, deliberately. That group of users has no problem with the presence of the Metro interface, but they have a substantial problem with not having the choice to use Windows the way they have used it for many years. Worse yet, that choice has been deliberately removed by Microsoft, after the devastating feedback they had received during the beta testing and preview candidates. Excuse us for not having much trust in Microsoft anymore, after having been given the finger in this way. This is the Microsoft, mind you, that could be counted on bending over backwards to support legacy software and user interfaces, which was a key distinguishing characteristic compared to certain other companies.

 

Just the opposite for me. As soon as I installed StartIsBack I now rarely go to the Start Page. I do have 4 Apps pinned on my Start Page (Weather, Sports, Finance and News).

I do give Kudos to MS here because all 4 are quality Apps and allow me to enjoy Windows 8. I'm sure others will have their favorite part about Windows 8. I also don't mind the non-aero UI. I actually like it but I do prefer the Aero UI in Vista and Windows 7 much more. That's why if Windows 8 is on any of my computers, i'll have Windows 7 as well, so it's in a dual boot environment.

Also I find that Windows 7 and Windows 8 boot just as fast, W8 maybe a tad quicker but not enough for me to buy W8. I recently built an IB desktop and that PC boots W7 in less than 12 seconds and i'm using an average speed spindle HDD.

But I did find W8 to be more enjoyable once the Start Menu was enabled via the add-on. If the add-on was not available I don't think W8 would be on my computer.

 

well, after long time of disliking, I finally started to accept Windows 8 for what it is, and get familiar with it, and.. .... well let's see what is it

 

The fact that dissatisfied customers are more vocal than satisfied customers is just a fact of life. It's always that way. How many customers at a retail store say "let me talk to your manager" when they're unhappy with a cashier? When they're very happy with a cashier? How many owners of laptop X post on the internet when they have a hardware failure? How many post and say "I've never had a hardware failure"? That's why EVERY owner's lounge on NBR is a series of problem-shooting and complaining after about page 50; the satisfied owners aren't writing anything. Everything in life is like this. Well, same with Windows 8.

The rest of your post is a complete straw man. All that "implicit whining" that Windows 8 critics are "mean or unfair"? There was NOTHING like that in my previous post. I do think you, personally, go out of your way to be rude or use ad hominem attacks when responding to my posts about Windows 8, but that's not something I've ever said about Windows 8 critics as a whole.

Edit: and my offer to resolve whatever personal beef you have with me via PM remains an open offer. The snide jabs and personal attacks in this forum are beyond old at this point.

 

If Win 8 were the market share success of Windows 7 I would agree with the analogy of dissatisfied customers complaining. With the fact it is such a marketing failure and the fact the ones complaining are usually avoiding even becoming a windows 8 customer defeat this argument. That and the fact we almost all would have liked, and maybe one day will like, to be windows 8 owners.

We are not upset as to what they could have made it, but what they changed to make it what it is. They were on the right track as far as most were concerned! It was all in the last few months before the RTM it all went to the dogs as they say. M$ should look at changing its stubbornness or one day we will have a new saying for failure in spite of ourselves "Pulling a Ballmer". The famous Microsoft may also one day become the infamous Microsoft, if it has not already in some respects..............