Microsoft prepares U-turn on Windows 8

Windows 7 was a new OS following an unsuccessful OS at a time when PC sales were strong. Windows 8 is a new OS following a very successful OS at a time when PC sales are weak. Of course it's not going to have the same market share growth during the first six months that Win 7 did.

The dissatisfied customer thing applies equally to well-loved products and poorly-loved products. The dissatisfied people are ALWAYS more vocal per capita than the satisfied people, whether you have 75% satisfaction or 25% satisfaction.

The fact is, posters like yourself and Pirx are at one far end of a spectrum and I'm at the other far end. Most people are pretty ambivalent (which is kind of like how most people have been about Windows since, well, forever). With Windows 8.1, Microsoft is refining the concept and improving discoverability of the features, but not going back to the drawing board. That should satisfy the people who like the concept and significantly improve the user experience of the people who are ambivalent (who don't care about Metro versus Aero aesthetic, or full-screen-versus-quarter-screen Start, but are having difficulties with the sometimes-poor discoverability of some of the features in Win8). People who hate the concept even with refinements can still buy the large selection of Windows 7 machines on the market (business-class models from Lenovo, Dell, and HP will remain on the market for years due to the traditionally-slow pace of corporate OS upgrades).

 

Mitlov,

I must be the fast one then. My network is officially migrate to Windows 8 and Office 2013 as of today. Luckily that I have people to hit F12 for me for OS deployment otherwise I would hurt my finger. My technicians are already fall in love with PC Refresh feature.

 

This is from Thurrott, mind you, not exactly known as a Microsoft or Windows 8 hater:

Yep, so it does look like you're ahead. Way ahead...

 

With the $15 upgrade and deep discounts even for not so new systems it could have been a sell out. I know I was going to be one of those getting the new OS. Once M$ blew it though I and others were turned away. There were a lot of people though who bought upgrade licenses for the deep discount to install later if it were fixed. I did not go that route as even though my contribution would have been a drop in the bucket to total sales I just could not bring myself to doing it. I am not one who can say one thing but do another.

Agreed Windows 7 came from Vista so people ran to it. Problem is Windows 8 has a slower adoption rate than even Vista and that came form XP. So you can not have one without looking at the other. Windows 8 is at present a marketing failure. The problem is not ambivalent consumers with windows 8, of the casual users I've talked to they hate metro and the start screen and methodologies of metro apps vs desktop and the like. I'll agree most don't say what is up with Aero and DWM, they say what is up with those huge bland title bars, that is the ones who do comment.

The average consumer of Windows is not sophisticated enough to state what they dislike and/or how to fix it. If you listen to them though you can read through their issues as to what is up.

I do not think 8.1 is a back to the drawing board. I think they had the board in front of them a while ago but that is the problem with drawing up a play. once in a while you fumble the ball..........................

 

Pirx, I run my network. I don't need other people to tell me how to run it. People can say whatever they want. I know what I am doing, so I don't need them to guide me. Windows 8 is very powerful when couple with SCCM 2012 and 10 Gbps network bandwidth.

Want to talk about Enterasys S8 with Virtual Switch Bonding anyone?

 

Severely off topic, also non laptop specific subject matter. While no one will question your apparent field of expertise (networking) it is not the machine to machine issue we are upset with about win8, it is the user to machine issue. To user such as myself this is the greatest concern with it. My concern with System Refresh, not sure if you have a different image it restores too, is doesn't this bring you to a fresh os, nothing installed and all docs and programs lost. I'll admit I'm not familiar but I do remember some posting issues, not sure if it is the same thing...................

 

I am sorry that I boast a little bit. Back to the topic, you can refresh your PC with or without losing your files and documents. Yes, you will lose your installed software on both options. I use server to deploy software back to my workstations, so it isn't really my concern. For home user like you, you can use complete PC backup on the OS to take a snapshot of your perfect PC state. Well, you just clone your OS to external drive, and restore back when you mess up your PC.

You can use File History feature to take a snapshot of your documents to either you external hard drive or NAS if you want. This should answer your questions.

PC Refresh will give you brand new OS with all the drivers that comes with that PC. I test it on my virtual environment, and it seems to work well. I also test on actual PC, and it give me a good result too. The process is completely fool proof if I may.

 

You are ahead. My office is still primarily Windows XP-based. Most law firms won't use ANY operating system until it's about three years old, regardless of the user interface.

 

It is normal for law firms that they don't value cutting edge technology like my work place. I haven't seen Windows XP for quite some times. We virtualize everything here from SQL, AD, DNS, Exchange, and etc. I got new toy to play with everyday. My department make a lot of money, so I pretty much get whatever I want. I consider that I am blessed.

Newer OS means less maintenance job for me. At least I don't have to update flash on Windows 7 anymore since it can be push through WSUS server. Have you ever tried to defrag 40TB SAN. God! I have been running that job for past 5 days, and it hasn't completed yet! What a nightmare!

 

With win 7 all I do is with the second drive is just write an image. I can restore to it any time and this eliminates the need for me to user system restore at all. I've done this since I first started using the SSD within my laptop/dtr. I have no need for windows 8, there is just nothing there for me. At least nothing positive that overcomes the negative for me.

I am not sure the technical aptitude of the users on your network but I know where I worked, in a telcom, going from XP where they were at to Windows 8 would be a nightmare for the users and management. As far as casual users, again from whom I've spoken Win8 is a no go, not from a single person mind you.

You are right, we could all just say Hello to Red Hat as our primary or solo OS right now, but that would be "Pulling a Ballmer"..................

 

Uhmm, do you have users, too, on "your" network? Do they and their work matter, perhaps, a little bit? Or is it just you and "your" network?

 

Oh yeah, we have like 4000 users. This is not my first migration. I would not do it without a plan. Let me worry about it because this is what I get paid to worry. You are funny. We would not invest big core switch if it is just only me on the network. LOL! You should begin to freak out when I migrate my VoIP. Well, at least Cisco does.

Well, you are one tough customer to please. Hey, you can do whatever floats your boat. I will reserve Red Hat for super computer since it can't run on Windows. Only think I mess with Telco is my PRI since we use VoIP. What VoIP are you using in your company because I am curious? Do they prefer ShoreTel or Cisco?

By the way, what you describe is the same thing I suggest earlier. It is easier and more robust on Windows 8. The giant tech company would not introduce new OS without improving its core product' features. Of course a lot of people don't like change, and they can't please everyone on the market. To me, I embrace change. We can't do the same thing with the same way forever. If you come from Server 2008 R2, you will scream when you see Server 2012. I guarantee that.

 

If you're using a *real* PRI than it's not VoIP.

There are many other choices, and some of them are found preferable to these two by many users, especially big ones...

 

Have you use Cisco 6509? You might want to actually go look at the blade yourself. Cisco and ShoreTel are the biggest player for VoIP. Dallas Cowboys stadium uses Cisco. Pentagon also use Cisco. What is your call manager version?

 

Wow, I guess I see Windows 8 in my future now! If only I could buy a darn retail copy!

 

Quote wars have been going on long enough, if you can't keep the snide remarks to yourselves and discuss the actual topic, this thread will get closed and nuked from orbit without a second thought. Some of our long time members should know better.

 

We can take this to PM or another thread since it has nothing to do with W8...my mistake was to react to the PRI/VoIP aspect of your post, and I apologize for taking the thread OT.

 

Well then back to topic. There will be no major U-Turn we are only being thrown a slight curve is about all. Again my feelings on this are it is a shame but hopefully Win9 will be better....

 

You don't have to worry. I just come here for fun. I don't take it seriously.

 

8 million have downloaded stardoc and poki alone. I figure 20 million total. Real number W8 activations is around 58 mill. Forget MS 100 mill number that does not count all the unsold inventory and enterprise downgrading everthing to W7. Thats 1/3 using an app to nuke metro. Then you have 8.1 which will install a start button that links to metro start and will probably break all the third party apps. IMO when 8.1 hits things are going to get really ugly for MS. I've heard of the leaked version won't allow the third party apps to install.

 

I think though it was mentioned there would be an option to allow 8.1 over 8.0 and not mandatory. Not too sure though if all new systems will be 8.1 or 8.0 once it has been released. My guess too though breaking all those start menu and/or skip metro apps would not end up as a good thing for M$.

 

Yeah so much talk about how 8.1 will fix everything that I feel most will down load it anyway. Especially since it will bring many other updates that may be good. Even now I still read sites reporting that the menu will be back as well as start button. I believe Mary Jo Foleys sources and highly doubt the start menu's return. It will be a mess.

 

Is this old news, i have not been keeping up with things.

Microsoft U-turn sees Start button back on Windows 8

 

IMO it would have been better if they left it out. It's going to further infuriate those who want it back permanently. It's a bad joke made worse.

Quote:
"However, it will not offer all the functionality previously associated with the feature. Instead it will bring users to the recently-introduced "Metro" interface."

 

What could be the largest concern is will M$ new start button co-exist with other apps proper start button? And if it does with the preview or beta will it also with the full release? M$ has proven at full release time to just give its users the screw as they say...............

 

GAH! IF I SEE ANOTHER COMMENT/POST ABOUT IT "NOT BEING HARD TO LEARN WINDOWS 8" IMMA GONNA REACH THROUGH THE SCREEN AND STRANGLE THAT PERSON WITH MY INTERNET HANDS.

It's not about freaking learning a new OS. It's about workflow, habit, and convenience. I can learn to do pretty much anything. But what I can't and don't want to do is use something that makes my life more difficult. I think Windows 8 was designed by the wives association.

 

Heh, I hear you... I always get a chuckle out of those clowns that suddenly consider themselves the veritable computer whiz's, and are so unbelievably proud of themselves because they have learned how to use Windows 8. They have even figured out keyboard shortcuts, can you believe that? Geniuses, I tell ya!
Us old fogeys that don't like Windows 8, on the other hand, are "unable to adapt to change", and "unwilling to learn". Those guys are hilarious.

 

Your welcome, it is my pleasure to assist you guys. :thumbsup:

 

LOL. I know. I think the art of command line and computer architecture has been lost. Imagine having to do EVERYTHING from a COMMAND LINE! We embraced Windows 3.0 because it was a massive improvement over the command line but still offered the command line to do what we needed to do. EMM386 and HIMEM.SYS anyone? We embraced Windows 95 and 98 even more, because it improved on what existed, and OMG with Windows XP. Now these nitwits figure out how to search using a feature that's been there since Win 7 launched, use shortcuts that have been there oh since, Window XP if not earlier, and all of a sudden are master of Windows.

 

LOL, you are welcome to use PowerShell 3.0 on Windows 8 if you want or you can run server 2012 from command line too. I doubt that you would be able to get though the day. GUI makes everything easier for people including me too. I will use GUI as my first choice because it is easier. I will resource to command line if the task can't be accomplished by GUI. Everything is all about working smarter not harder. If you want something difficult, please feel free to mess with PowerShell. If you want something even more difficult, you can mess with AD schema.

I don't even know what EMM386 or HIMEM.SYS is. How old is that thing?

 

My point is that users who think they "know it all" think it's all about a little bit of point and click and a few key commands. The whole OS evolved over decades going back to when you actually HAD to use the command line to do everything.

EMM386 and HIMEM.SYS. Back when you had only 640KB (yes KB) of system RAM to work with. You could put drivers and apps in upper memory area (higher than 640KB) so you could make full use of your conventional 640KB RAM. Some games required 620-630KB of conventional RAM free, but still needed a mouse driver, CD driver, graphics driver, etc, so it needed to be loaded into the upper memory blocks. You were a champ if you could manage to get it to 638KB.

Half the "fun" of buying a new game was getting it to actually run on your system. People whine about long load times, but all they have to do is wait. Just imagine having to configure your system trial and error for two days before you could even get your game to run. Setting up the perfect autoexec.bat and config.sys file was a science and an art.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_memory

 

Okay, I got you. Those things are way over my head. You know you stuff. I don't doubt about that. Man, you talk about 600kb of memory. I have 196 GB on my server. This is crazy!

 

Ahh yes, those were the days, when you had to tweak your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files yourself. Of course, you'd go out and buy QEMM to get the utmost flexibility in managing Upper Memory, and both Expanded and Extended Memory. Quarterdeck also offered their DesqView multitasker/task switcher. Fun little fact: Desqview was released in the mid-1980s. You Win8/Metro fans should take a good look at that one, since this is exactly what Microsoft is taking you back to. Awesome, innit, how 30 years later these kids think this old stuff is suddenly the bee's knees again. Don't get me wrong, back in the day this was awesome, but in 2013? Seriously?

P.S.: Actually, I am a bit unfair to DesqView here: That one was in fact more powerful than that Metro crap, and had (kind of) real windows. Metro is more like the pre-decessors to DesqView, that allowed quick switching between several programs loaded in memory, but no real multitasking, and no windows. Later versions of MS-DOS (and, most notably, DR DOS) had that capability built in.

 

Haven't you ever heard of "What is old, is new again"?

 

What's wrong, I keep clicking those gorgeous icons and nothing is happening.................