Windows 10

Tough call. Both Intel and Microsoft have a less-than-stellar history when it comes to pushing their own agendas with no respect for needs of their core customer base.

The custom workstation that I'm currently building sports a 2960XM......so I guess that we're on the same page there, as different as our personal needs and preferences might be...

 

I mean, what's the point in massive tiles if you're using an accurate mouse & pointer! As you say, misuse of screen space. The only argument would be for tiles is to enable people to quickly identify & see what they're looking for (or if you're using a touch based device), but I really don't think that's a valid concern if you've been using an OS for a day or two.

 

Ah, that's surprising to see! Even more so given my Dad's laptop is a Sandy Bridge Optimus laptop, and Windows 10 upgrade icon says that his system is 100% compatible. From that link you've provided it looks like my Dad won't be able to get Windows 10, did I draw the right conclusions here? (His copy is already reserved through the Windows 10 notification icon)

 

You're being *very* kind with that statement.

IDK. My wife got that icon on one of her systems, which is even older unit, with 4500-series integrated graphics and a C2D CPU. Not that she'll be upgrading to W10, but that gives me the impression that what MS is saying is "go ahead and upgrade, it's all good" and then comes Intel which kicks you in the gut with the lack of the driver support. I mean, let's see...W7/W8.x with a full-blown graphics support - even for integrated graphics whatever one may think of them - or W10 with a "standard VGA graphics adapter" nonsense. Really tough decision, right?

 

Ah yes, I see your point about it perhaps being compatible by reverting to Standard VGA Graphics Adapter. Hmm, just trying to think from my Dad's perspective if he needs anything more than that. He just uses his laptop for web browsing & standard office apps - I'm thinking he doesn't need extensive driver support for that stuff. On another note, he's got a NVidia 525M, but I don't know if his BIOS will allow to run in dedicated mode (Inspiron) - getting round the potential problem of Standard VGA Graphics Adapter for the Intel iGPU. And on a third idea, perhaps his system would default to running on the NVidia GPU anyway if Windows 10 won't let Optimus function by preventing functioning of the Intel iGPU driver? Or fourthly, maybe Optimus will still function with Intel iGPU labelled as Standard Graphics Adapter, thereby foregoing the detailed driver functions of Intel iGPU, but still allowing automatic switching to NVidia GPU?

 

I'm reasonably certain that Optimus requires a proper driver from Intel. Could your father's system run on nVidia alone? Probably, if that option is available in BIOS which it should be. With that said, I'd wait and see whether Intel/MS come to their senses and decide to offer a proper driver for these machines. Even basic browsing/scrolling is a pain with the "standard VGA" pseudo-driver in my experience.

My $0.02 only...

 

Ah, thanks for the info that even basic browsing is an issue with Standard VGA, that would be a deal breaker if there weren't other ways to bypass the Intel iGPU! Yes, I'll check his BIOS (going there today anyway), to see if it can run in dedicated NVidia GPU mode. If not then I'll either wait for Intel to decide to release a Sandy Bridge iGPU driver for Windows 10, or I will risk the upgrade BUT make a drive image using Macrium Reflect for easy & quick reversion to Windows 7. (Actually, I'd do the Macrium Reflect image just before upgrading to Windows 10 anyway regardless!)

EDIT: Just had an idea. If it turns out that Optimus does work with Standard Graphics Adapter iGPU, then I'd white list Chrome/Firefox/Intenet Explorer to be be run on NVidia GPU in the NVidia Control Panel, thereby getting around the internet browsing problems when using Standard VGA Adapter. (Assuming the possibility that I can't get his GPU to run in dedicated mode from the BIOS)

 

If he only does web browsing and basic Office apps, that begs the question, "Why even bother with Windows 10?" There is absolutely zero compelling benefits for him, so I would not burn any calories on it. I mean, think about it... the ONLY reason it might benefit us is for DX12 gaming and even that may not be for a good while. And, even when it does, it will only be for DX12 titles. Nothing else will have any use for it. There is nothing compelling about the upgrade newer OS for average consumers. The more we enthusiasts and power users learn about its shortcomings, the less compelling it becomes for us as well. Way to go, Micro$lop... you guys really have a way with customers, LOL.

 

I think it makes some compelling reasons for some 8.1 users.

My stepmum was very pleased to hear that the start menu is making a return, for example.

Heck, I'm happy that the start menu is returning. I also like the more consistent UI vs 8.1.

 

BTW you can't activate Windows 10 IP on "new" PCs since 16-th of July. But MS will continue Insider thing in the middle of August for future builds.

My last build was 1014-something or 10132 and for some reason newest builds don't get auto-activated. Oh well... Not a big loss - that's what I understood really quick after installing latest one.

 

To be fair, I do have to admit that what some people find compelling may be different than what others do. Having the Start menu back is certainly better than not having it. However, with StartIsBack and Start8, (and a few other options that I do not like nearly as well,) for 8.X.X it seems a little bit silly to me for anyone to be more than very mildly excited about that feature of Windows 10. There was never a reason for anyone to tolerate any version of Windows 8 without it, and from what I saw using Windows 10 the third-party utilities are universally superior to the Windows 10 Start menu.

 

I'm a fan of pure 'stock' Android and the same notion applies to how I view Windows. The more that the underlying OS can do to replace the need for 3rd party apps the better in my eyes. I want as few 3rd party apps running at boot up as possible. Just the way I am.

 

That is a good point, but part of my thinking is that Windows 7 support ends in less than 5 yrs (he's already had it just over 4 years I think). He's got 8GB RAM, i5 Sandy Bridge, 128GB SSD, so it's a very zippy system for basic computing tasks, so I can envisage it still being a relevant PC to use in 2020 for those purposes - plus I was thinking it might be a zippier OS (although from reading this thread I have my doubts on that last point).

 

Optimus doesn't require a proper driver from Intel, Optimus is strictly a Nvidia driver to workaround any GPU onboard. Not to say that it might not detect the IGP as an Intel one if it's just a "standard graphics adapter" but Nvidia can work around that, but would require a new driver from Nvidia.

You can set the Nvidia GPU as the preferred GPU in Nvidia control panel. But again I guess it all depends on what Nvidia decides to bring to the table.

 

People, we can use Windows 8 and heck, even some windows 7 drivers successfully in Windows 8/8.1 and 10.

So when Intel claims there is no support for HD200 it means Intel isn't going to spend more men-hours for optimizing it. I bet you can install Win10 on HD2000 igpu-equipped laptop now.

 

Not if it checks for Windows version number.

 

My train of thoughts would go along the lines of a fresh W7 install which would certainly make the machine feel snappier than it it does right now. No issues with drivers, compatibility, forced updates. A platform that requires no major tweaking in order to produce performance that is both stable and respectably fast, especially given the set of requirements that is on the table.

My $0.02 only...

 

QFT

 

It doesn't really need a fresh Windows install, it's zippier enough for Windows 7, I was just hoping that Windows 10 would provide an extra level of zippiness! And then there's the Windows 7 support dropping in Jan 2020. I'll probably upgrade his laptop after I've checked out Windows 10 on my system, there's always Macrium Reflect to set things right back to Windows 7 at that point.

I find it quite strange that we have all these unanswered questions with regards to whether our PC's and laptops will be 100% compatible with Windows 10, and yet Microsoft don't seem to have done much to address the detail of our questions (not that I've asked them, but it seems there are a lot of unknowns in terms of compatibilities). There's that Windows 10 Update Notification Icon that supposedly checks to see if your laptop or PC is compatible, yet we don't hold much faith in that, especially given the lack of Windows 10 driver support for Sandy Bridge iGPU as we've seen. Hmm, I wonder if they could have made the whole compatibility & upgrade scenarios clearer - probably?!

 

i am not sure if windows 10 dropping my 980M visibility is because of shoddy optimus or not so I am thinking that once I get the 120Hz panel that it should force my laptop to use the 980M exclusively and see if windows 10 will decide to drop it there because it has no other alternative.

but then when i did an OS reset it still didn't recognise the 980M so.... i don't know any more.

 

Make sure you put your BIOS to dedicated GPU mode BEFORE you install the screen, otherwise you'll brick your laptop trying to start it up in 'Optimus' mode when you have the 120Hz screen installed.

 

On the AW17 R1 there's no option in the BIOS to disable the iGPU, it can only be done via the function keys. I currently have it running in dedicated mode with only the nvidia drivers installed. I just need some decent instructions.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

Ah, I see, then for you it's important to use the Function Keys to switch to Dedicated GPU Mode BEFORE installing the 120Hz screen. (I would think so, but I don't have your laptop). And as you've just said, you're already running it in Dedicated Mode - so yeah, I guess you don't need to change anything.

 

I'm having a difficult time relating to Windows 7 support ending in Jan 2020 being relevant on a Sandy Bridge laptop, or any computer in use today for that matter. That's about 4.5 years from now and the machine is already between 3 and 4 years old. Even if the laptop is still fully functional and not worn out by Jan 2020, that's a long time to use the same hardware and we have no idea what's going to happen in PC tech by then. Either the Sandy Bridge era hardware will be woefully inadequate or it will be two or three times as powerful as the crippled and pathetic tablet/smartphone-grade trash (the current trend) that will become the norm between now and then.

As a general rule I would tend to agree with that thought process and that is my first inclination as well, but I'm not going to do without features and functionality for the sake of being a purist. I supposed that "you don't know what you don't know" concept applies here to some extent, but I tend to "know what I hate" at first blush... an instant turn-off is a difficult hurdle to clear.

Had Micro$haft given us something truly amazing, the third-party apps would be irrelevant and unnecessary, but their incompetence, lack of ingenuity and disconnect from customers created the need. Their ludicrous abuse of white and light-colored pastel colors instantly made me want to vomit on day one, before I even had a chance to discover how messed up and cumbersome the tablet/touch-focused cartoon-looking UI itself was. All of the third-party apps, tweaks and registry hacks I have used to fix their mistakes have been rock-solid stable and took Windows 8 from being a nearly intolerable abortion to a UI that I now actually find more attractive and functional than Windows 7. The caveat is that almost nothing about it (cosmetically) resembles the OS the way Micro$haft intended it. The only reason I prefer Windows 7 is the fact that it is faster overall and doesn't cripple CPU performance. Had I not had those third-party apps, tweaks and hack, Windows 8 never would have been allowed to continue to occupy drive space on my systems.

 

Well, even if my Dad had to use Windows 7 and his current laptop until 2020 and then ditch it due to support no longer being offered & potentially the hardware being redundant then he would have had the laptop 9 years anyway - so that's still a good deal. I guess I'm nitpicking in wanting his laptop to remain relevant by using Windows 10 beyond 2020 - wow, 2020 that sounds like we should be flying space ships, teleporting places, and eating food out of replicators! Although his computing needs are very undemanding & minimal so there's the best chance of the hardware still being relevant in 2020 (in terms of comparing it to anyone else's needs). If Windows 10 turns out to be the same or better than Windows 7 then I think I'd install it on his laptop - in that case you get the benefits (or no loss) as well as the feeling of having something new & shiny!

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Windows-10-Supported-Until-2020-Extended-Until-2025

 

And, the hits just keep on coming. Every official announcement or deeper reveal of their plans raises more questions or makes the "upgrade" seem less desirable. It seems clear they want to be in absolute control of everything and are planning to treat all computer systems as zombie hardware devices, like tablets and smartphones.

 

Well this could be looked at as good or bad.
1.) setting dates may mean that Windows 10 is not the last word.
2.) Accumulative updates means a hack for any updates stops them all
3.) Licensing time based fee's may be for the next iteration
4.) They could be setting a date so that a new OS/UI is set and it may not support a PC at all as far as an OS.

I guess there could be more issues as well. Hypothetically they could just release the PC/device OS to the Open Source and then just sell the device UI on a subscription basis, they even could end up selling them seperately.

 

Well, let me play the devil's advocate for a few sentences here...

My understanding - which may very well be incorrect - is that the updates in W10 are cumulative by nature and what you've written above goes along those lines. Once we stop the updates via a hack of some kind, we are effectively running an unsupported OS - not that it matters much to me personally but read on - so why in the world would I bother moving to W10 in the first place from something along the lines of W7 or W8.x ? While I'm not downplaying the needs of the gaming population which is looking forward to DX12, what else is there that would somewhat justify a move of that nature?

 

Agreed, why I mixed the good and the bad in a jumble there. All of this right now is speculation as well. As said before, just more and more things to add to the pile that is getting lager and smellier all the time.

 

I have multiple computers all running Windows 8.1 Pro. Will I have to download Windows 10 to each computer or will MS allow me to make one USB disk so I can update the rest later without having to download Windows 10 several times?

 

Hard to tell the way it is worded, but might be able to download just once and create installation media that can be used as often as you wish. Unless you're one of those kind of people that believes Micro$haft always knows what is best for everyone and cannot do anything wrong, it might be prudent to download and install it only once, and use it for a month or so on just one machine, to be absolutely certain that you really want to do this to all of your systems. Surrendering all of your Windows 8.1 Pro licenses on a leap of faith probably isn't a very wise thing to do.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...q=upgrade&ocid=reserve_r_PostReserve_mod1_faq

 

This anonymous commenter, who intriguingly sounds like @Mr. Fox , stated exactly what I am feeling about these veiled announcements. I obviously can't personally substantiate a few things he says since I never bothered with any Win 10 pre-builds or even Win 8, but we do share the same cynicism of Micro$haft and Win 10. (I have always planned to at least hopefully check out a version of the "final" thing with a non-used Win7 key in 2016, barring no disastrous OS revelations in the early months).

Spoiler: Rawr

Its just more obfuscation from M$ to daze and confuse the potential 10 users out there, and It will work for some that do not pay attention to the EULA! What's in a name or a number anyways, what has to be understood is the EULA and its terms and conditions, and in whatever user options and features are being removed in the name of "Security" and "Progress". That "FREE" has to be funded some way, and just what information will be obtained from those non security updates, that the user will have no option to reject, will there be adware in the making to be pushed out from windows update, with ad content pushed through BING and its BING desktop! The tiles are still there and they will still have the capability to display ad content, and of course there will be the mandatory M$ store! Will there be in-app, or even in-desktop-application, purchases with the press of a button, via the always on cloud umbilical from 10 to the M$ cloud, and no definite way to permanently turn off the metrics gathering, even with a registry hack, least one of those non security mandatory updates turn it right back on!

I'm not ready to give M$ the wheel and let them control my hardware. Hardware that I did not directly purchase from M$, and at least there is a way to avoid Apple's closed ecosystem, but we are talking about M$ getting the ultimate control over third party "Independently" produced hardware from third party OEMs not officially owned by M$. It's no wonder that Valve has produced Steam OS, Gabe saw it coming and took the action to avoid getting the royal treatment, the royal treatment that is specifically reserved for the peasants and surfs!

Aside from referring to people as peasants and serfs (lol, admittedly it is context-sensitive), spot on with my opinions. The reason I haven't bothered to try any of these pre-builds is precisely because of how jumbled Micro$haft has made certain aspects of these trickle "announcements" sound. My 2 cents, ofc.

 

Not sure who that person is, but I sure would like to give them a big knuckle bump, bear hug and then sit down and have a long chat over a 64 ounce Diet Coke on ice. Sounds an awful like a person I know from Dell Community Forum. Neither one of us are as popular there as we used to be. I have to mince words, pretend bad is good, and be politically correct 40 to 60 hours a week. The brutal honesty flows naturally, like a fresh mountain spring, as soon as the top button is opened and tie comes off.

 

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-threshold-wave-2-will-focus-primarily-on-optimization

 

Hmm, that does sound like early adopters are like beta testers for the Performance Optimisation Patch slated for October. I wonder if Microsoft could have done all this optimisation before the official launch (end of July), to me that would have been better?

 

Or just release the whole thing in July ... Releasing half-baked software is becoming a thing now

 

This is their way of saying it is what it is at RTM and nothing will get changed for a long time, if ever.

 

I was wondering if that was the case? Does anyone have confirmation if the upgraded Windows 10 license gets converted from transferable to non-transferable i.e. OEM status?

The way it's worded where MS says that Windows 10 is assigned to that particular hardware device leads me to believe you can't transfer that license to another device or you can't upgrade the Motherboard/CPU etc. On a laptop that's not as much a problem but it becomes a problem on a desktop especially a custom built desktop.

 

This.

Looks like there will be Windows 11 (or whatever) coming in 2020. Perfect, that's the end of support for Windows 7. So, I'll see if they manage to produce a decent OS for 2020. If not, I probably won't care anymore.

 

Some interesting news;
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...starts-when-customer-begins-using-the-os.html

However, the report said that Microsoft will give more preferential control to release and install automatic updates for both Windows 10 Professional and Enterprise versions. Moreover, it stressed that users of Microsoft Windows 8.1 will be given an option to deal with the software updates, and this includes the ability to disable it completely.

http://www.realtytoday.com/articles...-microsoft-os-update-mandatory-home-users.htm

 

For some reason, the more I read about Windows 10, and the more I read about Micro$oft's plans for it, I keep coming back to this:

 

Yup, that makes sense to me. In fact, I've referred to M$ as Skynet more than once.
It's all about quality customer control. They have a god complex and it's not good.

Spoiler: M$ said, "I am God here..." My wish is your command.

LOL... couldn't resist the Lawnmower Man GIF. "I am God here!"
Sorry Jobe Micro$haft... Access Denied

Edit: And, the more I think about this one part of me is like, Meh, whatever, it's a stinkin' OS, just stop being so OCD, Fox! But, conceptually, it's very difficult to get past how fundamentally wrong and absolutely messed up their approach is... especially the crappy deal with forced updates. That takes a lot of gall, to say the least. They're not asking, not suggesting.... they are outright TELLING us what's going to happen. I'm really not OK with that. For that reason alone, it must (at best) remain an optional OS in a dual-boot system along side Windows 7 exactly as I have done with Windows 8; but, for far more sinister reasons. It is no longer a matter of inferiority. It simply cannot be trusted as my primary OS as long as this situation exists.

 

MS Pushing Windows 10 down the throat of users even if they have Windows Updates disabled! This is hilarious:

Microsoft pushes Win10 notification thru disabled Windows Update?

 

Shapes of things to come...

 

sigh!

 

Resistance is futile. Compliance is mandatory. Insubordination will not be suffered. It will be dealt with harshly.

 

it works.....in theory!

 

If only it did, if only Windows 10 was really that game changer, a Windows 7 with real update to better support new hardware, a proper start menu with no Metro garbage, no forced Driver updates, and the better UEFI boot support, that would have been paradise! I wouldn't have minded them forcing the upgrades as they are doing now. But what they are doing is ensuring to demolish every PC out there on the 29th of July. I am waiting for friends and family members' calls on the 29th of July to help them fix their PCs that have been upgraded to Windows 10 and having issues

 

yeah, i'm still holding out till it's been sorted.