If you want to safely test it, I'd advise to install it in a virtual machine or at least a VHD. No messing with partitions that way, and you can get rid of it whenever.
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Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
Very interesting article about the annoyances of Windows 10, I am sure Microshaft won't fix them, then Windows 10 is doomed from the start just like Windows 8 was....
MUST read:
Itâs Time to Criticize Windows 10 While We Still Have a ChanceKernalPanic and bolt.pt like this. -
Thanks for posting that.Ferris23 likes this. -
So they skipped Windows 9 and went with Windows 10 huh?
Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2015 -
To me, Windows 10 is Windows 6.4. When I tell my close tech friends that I'm on Windows 5.2 or Windows 6.1 or am doing some retro gaming on Windows 4.1, they know exactly what I mean. Same with 6.4.
While some of the features, notably the command-line improvements, do look nice, I haven't actually installed the preview yet (though I have downloaded it). The privacy policy KernalPanic mentioned is half the reason, with other life events being the other half. It's kinda draconian, and while I get that they're trying to catch bugs and get usage stats and so forth, it's the type of thing that means I wouldn't really want to put my development projects on it, nor my Steam account... nor anything else that I'd actually intensively use it with. Which becomes an issue because otherwise I'm not really evaluating it. Collecting information about files and characters that are typed... doesn't quite go hand-in-hand with keeping closed-source development private.
I do hope they get rid of the magnifying glass search, or at least have an option to disable it, though. It seems like the evolution of the Address Toolbar in XP that was removed in SP3 (but never removed from 5.2), which let you type in any address such as C:\Windows or Microsoft Corporation into the toolbar in your taskbar and go there (either in Windows Explorer, or your default browser). It never really caught on, perhaps because it's not really much if any more convenient than just going over to Windows Explorer or your favorite browser and using that to get where you want to go. But at least it didn't auto-populate with celebrity gossip news from MSN. That screenshot on HowToGeek reminded me of why I always change the home page for IE on any computer for which I wind up using IE more than twice a year or so (which fortunately isn't very many computers).
Sure, you could always just not use it, but inevitably there'd by times I'd accidentally click on it and get Justin Beiber news instead of the Start menu... no thanks.Ferris23 likes this. -
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This makes me think twice if I need to install it on 2nd partition. And I don't want to use VM because afraid to make my current OS way dirtier. I always use Uninstall Tool for deleting all remnants of uninstalled programs.
MS, this are Golden words. To find out what OS to create you must look how people modify the look of current OS by third-party software and customisation! Some people used rocket dock with transparent launch links and some used gadgets. THEN WHY THE F... DID YOU CUT AERO WITH ROUNDED WINDOW'S CORNERS AND BROUGHT SQUARES WITH COLOR Palette OF SICK EPILEPTIC DESIGNER?!
I guess I will write this feedback -
so
Windows10=Windows8+Windows4=Windows7
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Now I'm hoping that is removable in the future, and at the very least you can configure it to get the crap celeb stuff out of the way.
Aside from that, it would be nice to have Control Panel and PC Settings harmonized. PC Settings should be the metro version of Control Panel, not have unique features. I don't really have any qualms about anything else I recall.
Here are some instructions if you're interested:
Virtual Hard Disk - Create and Attach VHD - Windows 7 Help Forums
Virtual Hard Drive VHD File - Create and Start with at Boot - Windows 7 Help Forums
I've installed Windows 10 TP that way in my Vaio SVS15 (it also has a sort of UEFI, although I keep the partition scheme as MBR) and it works flawlessly. No driver problems whatsoever, which sort of amazed me with all the crap laptop drivers usually are. I've had to download a couple of them from Sony support site (fingerprint reader and stuff like that), but 95% of the hardware was recognized by Windows as default. -
Thanks, I would not have thought of using a VHD but my issues are much deeper. There are two physical drives and an iSSD. My primary SSD is dedicated to the OS. My space to use for the other OS would be from the secondary HDD. Also my system is well known for issues with OS and the iSSD. Besides all this the bios treatment of UEFI is funky, see all the Samsung bricked issues with Windows 8.0 and 8.1. This threw out a chkdsk error for c:\, e:\, g:\ (Windows 10 partition), and my iSSD on f:\, this besides before that starting up windows 7 and it claiming it needed to do a repair. Got myself out of it once, not looking forward to a round two. Full backup or not!
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or web234874567.0
it's the Newer and Improveder Version Number, version 349123394547.0
but really, I'd pay for security maintenance and hardware driver maintenance. $80 for 10 years is 0.8 per year.
XP is still the best, so let ms create a secure XP. and non-microsoft developers can continue to create better file managers, browsers, email clients, and so on.
think of the OS as you think of a shower valve. You operate the valve much the same way as humans operated valves 100 years ago, but the seals need replacing far less often, and improved safety works without your conscious attention, for example, the anti-scald feature. -
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Singed not burnt, pulling away from the install and applying a little TLC solved everything. Just have to treat the system like it is a big kid throwing a temper tantrum.
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I do agree that if it were configurable, that also would make it much more tolerable. If I got AnandTech headlines when I accidentally clicked on it instead of celebrity gossip news, it would go a long way towards making it palatable.Ferris23 likes this. -
It be nice if they bring back the search charms bar in a similar way they did for W8.
Shortcut keys to explicit search categories
(It pretty much replaced my use of the start screen and start menu use.) -
I just thought how great 8 could be if they designed it not by mental people.
Just imagine! people can decide how to open charms-bar: clicking on the very edge and swiping or as it is now. People could put their own shortcuts there and some specific settings launcher from big list, slider of brightness if I want, gadgets or metro apps, triggers and macroses. GOSH, HOW GREAT IT COULD BE IF PEOPLE COULD MODIFY ALL IN IT! People could delete useless stuff like that inet button.
MS, whole MS is just mental because they live in another reality and amount of money they have protects them.Ferris23 likes this. -
Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
Just give me the better hardware support of Windows 8 / 10 and slap it on to Windows 7 and you have the best OS in time! -
I don't think I would have a single reason to go back to 7 ever, but well, that's just me -
Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
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I'll follow through with some examples from the top results I got by googling "windows 8.1 vs 7 benchmarks".
From a 2012 analysis: Gentlemen, start your benches: Measuring Windows 8âs performance | Ars Technica
Again, I don't see a single reason to go back to 7 ever unless you have compatibility problems in some way (which would be rare, since Windows 8.1 has better HW compatibility than 7 across the board).
The upgrade from 7 -> 8 was almost free, and 8 -> 8.1 free, so that was a given. I can understand that right now people may not want to pay whatever is the full price for the Windows 8.1 disk, though, especially with 10 just around the corner. -
StormJumper Notebook Virtuoso
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Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
Enjoy these.....
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB Single SSD Setup:
AS SSD Benchmark with IRST 12.8.0.1016 (W7)
AS SSD Benchmark with IRST 12.8.0.1016 (W8.1)
PassMark Performance Test @ 4GHz with 4810MQ [W7]
PassMark Performance Test @ 4GHz with 4810MQ [W8.1]
AMD Radeon R9 M290X Crossfire with Driver 13.251.3.5 (W7)
AMD Radeon R9 M290X Crossfire with Driver 13.251.3.5 (W8.1)
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P.S.: I will say that anyone arguing performance differences between Windows 7 and Windows 8.x just makes a fool out of him/herself. The differences between the two are so minute, one way or another, as to be laughable. That includes boot times, by the way, on modern hardware.Ferris23 likes this. -
Windows 8 does indeed have better hardware compatibility... with touch devices and tablet features.
With anything desktop using a mouse as your primary input device, Windows 7 is just as good.
Note, this is not a rip on Win8 in any way... I consider them equals with Win8 having an advantage in touch devices ONLY.
Windows 8 performance out of box is slightly better than Windows 7 performance.
However, if you are even moderately competent,(meaning you can read, search on Google, and follow instructions) Windows 7 will be pretty much equal.
A reminder that most of your audience here is head-and-shoulders better than that.
That being said, the performance differences between 7 and 8 are not really conclusive in any way shape or form. I would not consider performance in any way to be a determining factor for using 7 or 8 as they are so close that it just plain doesn't matter.
Where Win8 fails is software compatibility and user interface. Everything else is pretty much equal or very slightly improved.
Anything else is someone selling you something. -
Personally i just don't care what everyone else thinks and i use whatever suits me best. For me, I have improved battery life and UEFI boot logo integration on Windows 8.1, and i run Slackware Linux as my dual boot.
Also Classic Shell fixed most of my gripes with Windows 8, i haven't seen the start screen or charms bar in ages. -
The market has spoken on Windows 8.x, end of story! New story (and back on topic), will the company learn from its mistake(s) and actually make a better than Windows 7 OS/UI or suffer a second marketing failure?
Ferris23 likes this. -
Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
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Also I've installed Windows 8 on dozens of computers (mostly cheap laptops) and never had anyone ask me to go back to 7. All those people were end-users, most would easily represent your average Joe and they wouldn't know Windows 7 from 8 with a few interface tweaks here and there. And no, I did not install a single Classic Shell or similar software.
The only hardware problem encountered so far being in old AMD laptops (like 2008 old) in Windows 8.1 due to some changes in the boot process. For the rest of them, equal or better than Windows 7 in device recognition.
It became trendy to dislike Windows 8. Everyone that I know that mocked Windows 8 had no idea what they were talking about, but still they bashed it;
Now, Windows 8 is far from perfect, and I think that forced changes with the Start Screen and stuff like that irked people, and there I give reason to people: don't force changes for the sake of changes.
This is a great article in that sense (it was linked before in this very thread, just mentioning it again): It’s Time to Criticize Windows 10 While We Still Have a Chance
That aside, I agree with your other statements, it's pretty much the point I was getting to.
And again I say: I see no reason to go back to Windows 7. It's not faster, it's heavier on resources; Interface? Should be easy enough to change if you care.
The "stupid metro interface" is something I don't see and I don't care about it; Windows 7 is not lighter, even without the "stupid metro interface".
I don't know about your PC Settings usage, but I think I used the options present only there like once or twice in the past year. It doesn't make the slightest difference for me. That said, my opinion is that the settings should be mirrored in both places, one for Desktop and the other for Touch, and it makes little sense like it is now. It is feedback I gave to MS already.
About the Wireless Network Manager, that was stupid. I don't see the point of removing the ability to fully manage Wireless Networks from a decent interface rather than CLI. This did not affect my use in any way (nor does affect the average Joe), since I don't need to remove Network Profiles I'm not connected to, but a decent manager should be brought back by MS. Feedback given, as it should. You could use WinFi or something similar meanwhile if you really needed that.
OneDrive integration makes sense to me (although it could be better, maybe in Windows 10), but you can opt out very easily, especially if you don't use a Microsoft Account to sign in. Doesn't affect me or the average Joe in any way, just don't enable it if you don't want it (like I did).
You have your own reasons to not wanting Windows 8, 9, 10, whatever. Each one to his own.
But it seems to me that the things that nag you are completely invisible to the average user out there. Except the UI, but that is easily changeable.
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At any rate, I don't get the hate Windows 8 / 8.1 brings on some people; hence my posts.
Windows 8*.
I don't use Classic Shell and also haven't seen Start Screen / Charms Bar in ages ^^.
I don't care a bit about the Start Menu, I just use Win + W / S / F to search for whatever setting / app / file I want, and Win + X or CLI for the management stuff. I can understand that people like to use Start Menu, hence my joy of seeing an improved version of it coming back with 10 (choice is power!).
I use Linux Mint (some OpenSUSE in the past) for my Unix needs, but I've heard good things about Slackware as well. Good that it works out for youIndrek likes this. -
Bolt, we all wanted Windows 8 when it came out looking to be an improvement on Windows 7, until that was changed. If it is true that Windows 10 will finally be the improvement to Windows & we will want that. The only discussion belonging here of Windows 8 is that it is, at least in name, being replaced.
All our hope is that is not the only thing happening. If this is just a name change with some new lipstick for the prior UI version then it is dead out of the gate. As it stands today little has been done, even maybe not as much, as add on apps accomplished for the old UI. So we are here waiting to see if they will keep their word and listen to the PC community.Ferris23 likes this. -
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More news on my experiences with 10.
I am going to focus on what really matters to me... software actually working.
My experiences with a few other older "user" type programs have indeed turned out positive.
One of the most ancient programs I still have to install that never worked in 8/8.1 worked marvelously without modification on 10.
It actually a win3.1 program... so this is a giant step forward IMHO.
One of these programs (an older accounting program that always broke when I opened check printing - dubbed appropriately "check print") finally showed signs of starting to work as well. This is not a complete victory as the window never completes drawing, but usually at that point I can get compatibility settings to finish the job for me. (In 8/8.1 it doesn't even pull up the check to print... it either crashes or freezes.) I'll keep fiddling with this. The suggested settings are win8 compatibility... lol!)
Database programs running a local database still confound 10. I can't even get them to start to troubleshoot. Oddly enough, the same program calling a database off the windows 10 machine (even another workstation... even a windows 7 workstation) works fine! I keep thinking this is a permissions or security problem. (the database in question is the sample database for the program)
Cisco Anyconnect hates Win 10 period. It doesn't seem to matter what I am connecting to. Anyone get it to work?
I tried the suggested compatibility mode. (oddly enough win8 mode once again) Same program, same target works in win7. Why am I not surprised?
Has anyone gotten a USB->serial to work and stay connected to any Cisco device for longer than 2 minutes?
Mine keeps kicking me... and this is with me making sure there is traffic so it isn't some silly power saving thing.
I've tried every setting I can think of and a couple different programs and a couple different USB->serial adapters. Same programs and adapters work in 7 no problem.
If you got it to work and stay connected, which program and which USB->serial adapter? -
In this case I suspect the problem is in the driver and I doubt it will work until Cisco releases a genuine W10 driver and even so it still might not work.. -
And before people tell me "oh just update your programs"... not always easily done if you work in the industry and single licenses cost thousands of dollars.
Still a bit pissed that i can't run 16 bit binaries on Win64.
Most of the hate towards Vista was because of it's buggyness, which was caused by high system requirements at the time, and a new type of driver. But look now, Windows 10 is still compatible with most vista drivers (released 9 years ago?) and since the hardware requirements haven't changed since, today's tablets now effortlessly run something a 2004 pentium 4 couldn't. -
ANSYS software tends to be pretty expensive, especially if you go for the cluster license. Any time you see "contact us to get a quote" instead of a price tag on software, you know it's gonna cost ya! If you are running an earlier version of the software, it's likely that it's what you'll be running for quite some time.Apollo13, Jarhead, Jobine and 1 other person like this. -
We are not stuck on aero, nor other features. We do not want or need Windows 7 back, we already have that. Give us a better OS and UI and we will flock to it. To that end if they ignore their steadfast consumer base again though they will do so at their own peril.yukinok25, Ferris23 and Shadow God like this. -
I give up trying to use the feedback app~~
anyways, I think it would be nice to bring back more win7 elements for the desktop side. ie, It is so silly to pick wifi connection in the charm bar... put that back as a pop up bubble thingy.killkenny1 and Ferris23 like this. -
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StormJumper Notebook Virtuoso
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If they have nothing better, than I say bring it back. Again who am I to say. What I mean in the end is we are not stuck, we can easily move on, but to move on just for the sake of moving on is not always an good thing.
Edit; as an example of not trusting M$, in 02/2013 they put out a patch for IE 10 and beyond KB2670838. This is now a mandatory patch for IE 10 and 11 and on a lot of Windows 7 systems it is to supposedly help bring the Windows 8 experience to windows 7. Well what it does to a lot of systems is break DWM and Aero Glass. Some have had other issues with it as well. To date they have not fixed this patch and the Aero issues, so here they are giving yet another reason not to upgrade to Windows 8, they are trying too take away Aero!
I should note this pulls aero from by P79xx (GTX260m) but the patch does not pull it from my NP700G7 (GTX675m). So this is a fixable issue. -
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And it is indeed a bummer that 16-bit software won't run on 64-bit Windows. I almost went with 32-bit Windows when I built my desktop in late 2011 because of that; greater RAM only narrowly won out and then mainly because I figured with a 1 GB GPU, I'd be considerably below 4 GB total on 32-bit. But nonetheless, it would be nice to be able to run 16-bit software (or software with 16-bit installers) easily on 64-bit Windows. And I'm pretty sure it's just a Windows limitation, not an x86-64 limitation. -
Off topic but you are always below 4GB on a 32bit OS. as far as 1GB vram, is it shared memory?
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Yes, it is a Windows limitation, Microsoft made the decision to cut support for 16-bit with Windows 7 x64. That being said, I'm kinda surprised they kept it for so long, if it's just the installer, maybe it could be worked with somehow though. I personally consider bundling a 16-bit installer with a 32-bit program laziness, but that won't help the people having to deal with said issues because the software vendor was lazy.
That got me curious does x86 10 still support 16-bit? -
16-bit in x64 is not a windows limitation while 4GB in a 32-bit OS is. Use a VM in x64 for 16-bit. 1GB Graphics card will likely use ~256MB of 4GB addresses for 32-bit.
Yes, W10 32-bit will run 16-bit although NTVDM is not installed by default. -
Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
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1. XP Mode = 16-bit apps in Windows 7 x64
2. While MS decided not to directly code in a 16-bit subsystem, that's partially because the work to do so would be large compared to the 32-bit support, which the processor does natively. The x64 architecture doesn't directly support 16-bit code except if you (aka the OS) provides the entire infrastructure to do it.
x86-64 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(also, XP64 in 2005, four years before Win7, was the first x64-based OS from Microsoft)tijo likes this. -
StormJumper Notebook Virtuoso
Ferris23 likes this. -
Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative
Congrats dawg
Windows 10
Discussion in 'Windows OS and Software' started by WhatsThePoint, Sep 30, 2014.