Windows 8: The Thread

Keep reading the article. Note that if you like, you can fully collapse the Ribbon and use only the Quick Access Toolbar (QAT), similar to that of Office 2010. I see no downside to this: you can have a full-featured, potentially finger-friendly Ribbon interface, while also being able to switch to a more compact (less vertical room used than W7) layout that is entirely customizable with the functions you need.

Also, not entirely sure what you're talking about when you refer to MS's less than stellar track record with Explorer. Few real functions were removed in Vista and even fewer removed in W7. With the added stability of each revision (most notably the ability to run Explorer in separate processes), I'd say it's a vast improvement over Explorer in XP.

One thing I do agree with you on is that MS should allow for relocation of the ribbon to the side of the screen, to fully utilize widescreen real estate, much as it is possible to place the W7 taskbar on the side of the screen.

 

the upper part can be minimized like the office suit so they will save space if you don't like it think of it as if its a new menu bar

 

Yep, and you can set up the quick access toolbar with all your commands, essentially replacing the ribbon.

 

UNLESS it's collapsed. You didn't read the article.

I knew it.

 

something new appear on the surface
during a session on how to mount iso vhd files
Building "Windows 8" Video: Accessing data in ISO and VHD files - YouTube

 

they're giving you a choice to hide or not to hide
you were complaining about the space i told you it save space beside


> why do you care that much you're a linux user i don't need to convince you with anything

 

Because Microsoft hasn't figured out yet how to make an OS that reads people's minds?

[Shrug] What you call " the big issue" is a big issue for you, obviously, but that doesn't mean anybody else feels that way. Many people in fact quite like the ribbon menus. I see that even quite a few pieces of Linux software have copied the idea. Just as they have copied the task bar in Win9X and now in Win7, after having whined and moaned about how those were among those "contrived solution to a problem that didn't exist"...

 

You mean they're trying?!?!

 

Not sure what performance issues you're referring to, as Office 2010 is far less prone to freezing and is in general snappier on both my T500 and X120e than Office 2007 was. The ribbon menus in both are far easier and more intuitive to use in 98% of cases than the Office 2003 menus.

If you've actually used Office 2010, you'll know how easy it is to hide or customize the ribbon or use/customize the quick access toolbar. It'll be hard to make it more straightforward.

And as a Linux user, I'm pretty sure you can agree with me that out-of-the-box, Windows 7 works better than most Linux distros (with the possible exception of a few distros, ie: Ubuntu). There's far less "user intervention" in getting wireless, drivers, etc to just work.

That doesn't really make sense, as the removed features are generally quite minor (as I linked to in my previous post), and have nothing to do with general performance. Even if it did, however, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have file management that works 100% of the time rather than a feature-crammed Explorer that is always prone to crashes.

Explorer was intuitive in XP because it didn't represent a fundamental shift from how it worked in W2k, or even Windows 98.

 

I have contact with ribbon style interface in 3D applications and it is a terrible. Specially the screen estate that it takes and inflexibility.
Even worse in laptops now in 16:9...
A ribbon where we can choose what we can put there and if we want put it vertically could be an improvement. Otherwise will be a nightmare.


Btw the W7 explorer is horrible, a waste of space. It seems something that was let go without being finished.

 

Reading that article about 1200 ribbon haters, I would hardly say that the methodology of the study was scientific. There are such things as stat tracking tools (some even free) for counting poll takers and their ip addresses etc.

I bolded the word "likely" above because it shows the poll giver doesn't even know who took his poll. For all he knows, there might have been a few people who took it a dozen times. Even if the poll recognizes ip addresses, all some people have to do is use a proxy, or go to work, or a coffee shop, or reset their modem, to get a new ip address, among other ways.

So is 1200 a good number? Well according to this article from June 17 which states a credible source, office 2010 has sold 30 million copies. Now time for some quick math (I'm no good at math so going to use a calculator). The group polled, which may or may not have been unique individuals, represents 0.004 of the number of Office 2010 units sold. I did not even include Office 2007, which also has the ribbon design.

I'm not sure why I needed to get on a soapbox for that because I haven't used the Windows 8 ribbon yet so I can't form an opinion on it. But at the very least it should be obvious that people either like or can use the ribbon, or else why would they buy 30,000,000 copies of software with a ribbon UI?

 

That's my experience as well. Office 2010 starts much faster than 2007 and 2003.

It took me a long time to get used to the ribbon but now I prefer it over the old menus. And yes, if we minimize it (which I usually do), we get more vertical space than when we had the menu bar.

 

I don't understand all this issues about the ribbon interface.

I am using Office 2010 (mainly word), and in my opinion is simple to use, I like it as an Idea, and this worked well for me so far.

Totally agree with pianowizard by the way, its the fastest Office I ever tried.

 

Designing for Metro style and the desktop

 

Perhaps these guys should look at the success of windows phone 7 [or complete and utter lack of] to see how popular this Metro junk will be with anybody outside the minority of MSDN nerds standing in a circle

 

Huh? Microsoft Says Windows Phone May Exceed Researcher?s Market Share Forecast - Bloomberg

 

Not too shabby if true.

Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) said its Windows Phone operating system may capture more than 20 percent of the smartphone market over the next two to three years with the help of hardware manufacturers and increased marketing efforts.

Forecasts by researchers Gartner and IDC, which expects a market share of about 20 percent in 2015, are conservative, said Achim Berg, head of Windows Phone marketing, in Berlin today.

 

Ok, so Microsoft said so

Seriously, windows phone 7 was outsold in the first quarter of this year by their obsolete and unsupported windows mobile, with no new hardware, and basically nothing to buy, windows phone 7 is a joke in the smartphone world, Ballmer keeps talking big and loud like he always does, the reality of it, is it's a disaster as far as adoption goes/compared to what he's been allowed to invest.The only thing WP7 has achieved so far is to further reduce Microsoft's already shrunk to nothing mobile market share.

WP7 is another Kin, it's just Ballmer is soo annoyed that Eric Schmidt has won the war, that he's just continuing to throw billions and billions at it in the hope that people will eventually buy it

If Microsoft do try and implement WP7 type locked to MSFT cloud services and it's absolutely retarded interface on W8, my moneys on that you will be able to expect enterprise to avoid it even more than they have done with vista and windows 7.

 

Maybe you're right about this, but I prefer to be optimistic. I like WP7. It's stylish, polished, and really easy to develop for. Plus it integrates so well with Windows 7, Office and Skydrive not to mention messenger and other services. That easy integration which I'm sure will spill over into Windows 8 is just something the iPhone can't compete with.

I also really believe developers will flock to the Windows Phone platform and avoid android as it has become clear Android isn't for anyone who wants to actually make money. But I won't speak for myself, I'll let the news do the talking: Windows Phone 7 to eclipse iPhone in 2015 - IDC forecast - Mar. 29, 2011

 

Do not just count Microsoft out when it is first trial doesn't look impressive in the media. Think Xbox.

I have used iPhone, Android and very briefly WP7. I don't find them to be that much different. Kept iPhone only because it has the biggest screen. The UI IMO is the worst(WP7 and Andriod is more intuitive to me). That said, I never like any Apple thing except Apple II.

 

I'm really looking forward to further development in WP7. I appreciate its look and intuitive UI. It's nice to have a phone OS out there that's not app driven.

I do hope that the partnership with Nokia will push a few developmental things forward. I'm hesitant to move to a smart phone, from my classic Nokia's, because I greatly enjoy sending and receiving SMS from my desktop via PC Suite. I don't much care for the fact that WP7 can only sync through Zune, which is for media. There is no local PIM support. It's all cloud based. I also want to see local file synchronization. WP7 can be a powerhouse, so long as they keep some aspect of it open.

Just yesterday, I was talking to a group of ladies who had their iPads out. I picked one up and started deftly using it to show one of them a photo of something. She then started to tell me about some app or something. I said I didn't have an iPad and she was taken back a little. Yes, some of us actually prefer a different product than Apple. It's true.

 

Hyper-V for windows 8 =D
Bringing Hyper-V to ?Windows 8? - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

That's something I can do with Ovi Suite and my N8. AFAIK it works on pretty much all Symbian models made the last four years, touch, non-touch, and full keyboard models ( over 70 models, I stopped counting).
Now Ovi Suite is very good these days, a lot have happened the last year. Before that it wasn't very stable. PM me if you have any questions.

Sorry for the offtopic.

 

yes, Nokia is still the best vendor who knows how to make a mobile phone(and not a mobile device happens to be a so so phone as well).

For SMS on PC, I am using my google voice on desktop and google voice on iPhone, best of both(though limited to NA #).

Sorry for the even more offtopic

 

Samsung will launch a Windows 8 tablet

"KOREAN ELECTRONICS MAKER Samsung has partnered with Microsoft to make a tablet that runs Windows 8.

According to the Korea Economic Daily the Windows 8 tablet will be revealed at Microsoft's BUILD developers' conference in California next week, 13-16 September.

A source told the Korea Economic Daily, "This new product manufactured by Samsung will be the company's first collaboration with Microsoft in its hardware devices."

 

Delivering fast boot times in Windows 8


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I wonder what specs that notebook had, specially if it has an SSD.

 

Now that I have an SSD, I can't wait to try this out. Really this windows 8 surprise me more day by day.

I hope all this feature would work 100% as they advertize...

 

i was going to post about fast boot time but someone was faster than me
anyway it was freaking fast amazing job from ms

 

My system boots in around 15 seconds with this it's cut down even more. Great feature.

 

I bet he posted it on a Windows 8 machine.

 

im sure he does :dlol nice one

 

this new 'faster boot' is Microsoft saying 'stop reboot people, just use hibernate'. I do like their improved resume from hibernation process where all cores take part so it can theoretically mean a Quad can resume 4x faster, couple that with SATA6G SSD it would be sub 5 seconds thing(not from sleep but from hibernation).

 

I now only reboot each 2 weeks or so, otherwise is hibernate daily. And have all my most common used programs always opened even if not in use. It is even better than a return to DOS times where the program was almost not compressed.

Ideally we should have a sequencial partial reboot. Parts of the system rebooted while the main thing continues - never OFF. Sort what happen today with explorer.exe in the past a crash in explorer.exe meant a rebbot today we see the system rebooting the desktop icons but continues.

 

that is linux or equivalent(so long the console/ssh is accessible, one rarely need to reboot the whole thing)

Microsoft is getting there(as you mentioned, explorer is no longer part of the core).

 

It's hibernate on steroids but I approve. I guess they had telemetry that showed that people on Windows Vista changed the power button actions to "shut down" or clicked the arrow and chose "shut down" as it was changed from sleep to shutdown in Windows 7.

I personally always use sleep or hibernate and never shutdown.

 

I thought I read somewhere that using hibernate on machines with SSD drives is a bad thing. If not, I'll switch to use hibernate myself.

 

when ever you read something to be a bad thing for ssds, just stop reading. enable and enjoy hibernation. there's nothing wrong with it.

 

The main reason to do it is to get the disk space and not putting the memory to the disk.

Windows boots quick enough as it is on ssd to make it less appealing.

Still if you don't mind the space taken in your ssd then sure try it out and decide yourself.

 

I excited for Windows 8. So the Metro U.I verison will be only for tablets?

 

It's going to be all in one. So it will be there for everyone who uses w8.

I just hope we get to freely customize it.

 

hibernation is not about boot speed. it's about the non-need to end a session. closing all apps, saving the files (finding the places to save them in), and then on next boot opening all apps and all files again is stupid. hibernation is about just stopping everything, and continuing later. THIS is why i use standby and hibernation. not the speed of it. the removal of need to close and open apps all the time.

 

Yea, that's the advantage.

But as long as you feel it outweighs negative it's fine to use.

 

there's no negative. if one gets so close to the limit of an ssd that some few gb is an issue, one has bought the wrong ssd in the first place (same for hdds, but they're too big to care nowadays)

 

Any newer OS will always have compatibility issues. It's the responsibility of the hardware/ software maker to sort out issues.

 

It's still expensive for it's size.

But yes nowadays one should at least have 80gb+ size.

 

Windows 8 keynote at Build '11 liveblog: BUILD Day One Keynote Live Blog

Live streaming (and after, on-demand viewing) of the keynote (requires Silverlight): Home - BUILD | September 13 - 16, 2011 | Anaheim Convention Center

EDIT: Mere mortals can finally legitimately get a dev build of Windows 8 to try:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/welcome-to-windows-8-the-developer-preview.aspx

Note that this is by no means production ready. There goes my night though

 

6 hours till download.. and what am i going to do now? .. except for wanting to have any touchscreen device available at all..

presentation was awesome. still rough, but already so great.

 

Haha Yeah I wish I had a Windows tablet floating around...My D630 will have to suffice.

Now...to start putting stuff onto my external drive...

It was, they seemed a bit nervous in the first demo, especially when things started to fail, but it's a dev preview so it's to be expected.

 

Personally, I kinda found presentation for me a bit too much Apple-style. Also I began to hate the word "app", but I began to do so a long time ago . But all in all, I liked the new/improved features that they have presented, except that Metro thingy, totally not my thing...