M6500, Dell Fat32 Partition and System Backup

Guys,
My M6500 came pre-installed with Windows 7 and a 64bit OS. It took me over a week (50+ hrs) to install all the software I needed for my s/w development work and so I was pleased when I was able to do a full system image backup. Phew!

Although all my source code is backed up frequently I want to be able to image the system on a frequent basis while maintaining a few older versions in case something terrible happens.

Here is where the problem lies. When I tried to run a full backup including a system image Windows 7 decided to object on the basis that the Dell READER partition was formatted Fat32. The backup utility would not let me de-select this partition and so I was hosed. My solution, wise or not, was to convert the READER partition to NTFS. Great, Windows 7 was happy and my backup succeeded.

The issue that I think I now have is that Dell setup this partition as FAT32 so that the diagnostics utility could boot to it. So my question is this; have I dug a hole for myself and is there a way I can get out of it?

Also interested to know why Windows 7 was successful the first time through.

Sorry if I rambled on...

OldBrit

 

Why not try it?

FYI, Acronis Home 2010 on my M4500 had no trouble backing up each of the partitions in their original format.

I bought mine with XP on a 500 Gb HDD (becasue we had applications that may have required real XP), and I then added the mini PCI 64GB SSD drive and installed Win 7 on it. I backed up everything to an external drive first in case things went wrong with moving boots, partitions, etc. A complete 500 GB 7200 RPM notebook drive and case is only about $100 and is blindingly fast using the ESATA port, so there is no reason to have a working, bootable backup.

It looks like Win 7 will work for me, with some use of XP mode, so eventually I will coompleteley get rid of the XP boot.

For now, I used Acronis to back up the XP partition, wiped the 500 Gb drive and repartitioned it to a 64 GB partition and had Acronis recover the XP partition to it and configured the rest as a data drive. Then I had Win 7 move my documents folders, etc. to the data drive, so basically I have a 64 GB SSD operating system and program drive and a 436 GB data drive.

For now, if I ever want to boot the original XP I just change the boot order in the BIOS. Works fine.

Soon, when I am more sure that I won't need to boot the XP partition regularly I will use Acronis to back up the Win 7 SSD to the 64 GB partition on the HDD. Sort of like having a built in backup boot. If something ever happens to my operating system on the SSD I just go into the BIOS and change boot order and I am up again.

-Mike :>)
M4500
64 GB SSD
500 GB HDD
1920x1080 Display
Quadro FX1800
Win 7 32, XP Mode
XP 32 (when needed)

 

The Dell partition is likely either diagnostics or some other stuff. The first thing I do when I get a computer is to erase all partitions and load a fresh copy of Windows, and I've never had a problem with it. Windows 7 tends to like to create a 200MB partition if its setup is used to partition the device, so I use the Vista disk to partition my drive. Space is precious, and especially on my not-so-massive SSD.

 

Hey, Old Brit. Do you have an ON button and does it still work?
My E6410 shipped with 4 partitions on the hard drive: a 39 mb OEM Partition, an NTFS RECOVERY partition (no drive letter assigned), an NTFS OS partition (C and a FAT32 logical drive partition called READER (D. The FAT32 logical drive hosts the Dell ON Reader 2.0, a bit of bloatware that is apparently Linux-based and supports Dell’s instant on feature, I think from oem’d from Splashtop. I think, based on the Windows 7 backup utility error message, that it is this FAT32 partition that is preventing backup from capturing a system image. It’s probably formatted FAT32 so that the Dell ON button will boot to it. I was able to take a full backup of C:, but if you try to include a system image, backup fails. You probably did not check the box for system image on your first successful backup.
So far, here’s what Dell has to say:
“This is a follow-up about your question with regard on your issue on how to perform a back-up system image since you can't do it because your D: drive partition is formatted as a FAT32 partition.
You can perform a clean re-installation of the Windows 7 on your system and forward your hard drive partitions to NTFS. Just to set your expectation, we on Dell Hardware Warranty supports only provide assistance with Hardware defect in Dell-branded products under the Limited Warranty.
In cases like this I could refer you to our Solution Station Support and you can directly contact them at 1 877 699 5743 for assistance. Although we cannot provide support for this issue, there are free online resources to assist you at Welcome to Dell Support, including the Dell Community Forum and other online resources.
Thank you for choosing Dell.
Sincerely,
Jose
Dell Rep ID 206770
Technical Support Agent
Dell Hardware Warranty Support

When I get some time to waste, I’m going to get a copy of the D: partition, and:
1-convert it to NTFS – see if the button still works…if so…fine.
2- delete the partition – see if the button kills the machine – if so, maybe try to find a bios setting to disable the button.
3-wait for Dell to solve the problem…

BB64bit

 

When I first read that I thought you were being really sarcastic but then I realized you were referring to that dumb 'infinity' button!

Yes, it does still do something but quite honestly I never got the stupid Reader 2.0 to work (how bad was the 1.0 version?). It tells me that I don't have an account even though I have run the FirstTimeWizard.exe which, I assume (given the total lack of documentation), is what Dell expects you to do.

Not a big deal if the 'infinity' thing works or not. Seems like a novelty feature of little value anyway.

Looking at the READER partition there does not seem to be anything of value there.

Diagnostics works from the Bios fine, however, I thought there was a hidden Dell, windows based, diagnostics utility somewhere that was triggered by some funky key combination. I suspect that even Dell would not hide that inside the Reader 2.0 folder.

So, bottom line is, Convert that partition to NTFS and backup that sucker frequently!

PS basementboy64bit,
My first backup did get the system image so I'm still puzzled why subsequent backups failed until I zapped it.

 

Oops...sarcasm definitely not intended. Thanks for reading past the first sentence. In the little manual I downloaded, the pointer to the "infinity" button actually identifies it as "ON" with a TM symbol suggesting that they have trademarked the two characters to mean something quite different from the power switch.

Based on your finding that nothing bad happened after converting the Reader partition to NTFS, I did the convert command and I've got the system image backup running (I'm replying on the old laptop). I also found a bios setting to disable the ON/infinty button, so it wouldn't cause something ugly to happen if I accidently pushed it and it tried to fetch a boot sector from the NTFS drive.

After my system image is safe and sound, I'll re-activate the button and see what happens when I press it. It might occasionally be worthwhile to have some instant-on functionality, if that's what you get. We'll see how much of Splashtop Dell has licensed.

It also looks like I can now dispose of the mysterious Dell Backup and Recovery utility that annoys me with messages each time I boot up.

Dell Control Point is the next challenge, after I spend some time in a chat session trying to find out why it eats 25% of the processor for each logged on user after it's been running for a while. It reminds me of the Dell wireless utility on my D600 that has a memory leak and eventually brings the whole machine down in a few days.

One of the reasons I buy Latitude is to avoid the bloatware and crapware. A clean Windows 7 install is looking like it might have been a more efficient approach.

BB64bit

 

Interesting that you and I are the only one's experiencing this problem. Maybe nobody else does a backup! Could be a 64bit, Windows 7 thing also.

My 7 year old predecessor was a Dell D600 and it's still running strong. HD failed a while back but otherwise no complaints unless you put it on your lap and then it burns your knees.

My CPU complaint is the Sophos virus protection system which locks the login for a full 3 minutes. Without Sophos it's almost instant. Looks like Windows 7 waits for all the services to start up before displaying the desktop. XP would display the desktop but was still spinning it's wheels so I guess people kept clicking with the inevitable 6 sessions of IE getting launched.

Good luck, I'm sure it will be fine.

 

Thanks, Old Brit. D600's live on.

To summarize in case someone else has the problem:

- 64bit Windows 7 Ultimate won't back up a system image if there's a FAT32 partition or logical disk present
- Dell ships ON Reader 2.0 as a FAT32 logical disk.
- Converting Dell's partition to NTFS permits you to back up a system image and doesn't cause the ON/"infinity" button to kill the machine if pressed by mistake
- Dell's ON Reader appears to still run ok from an NTFS partition (although I have not bothered to create an account just to look at Outlook...too little too late in the world of Blackberry)
- the ON/"infinity" button can be easily disabled in BIOS under "system configuration" to prevent surprises when you're trying to power up your laptop (the two buttons are side-by-side)
- with the button disabled, it's probably ok to delete the logical drive and get back 2 GB of disk space (although I haven't done so yet).

BB64bit

 

It's probably that we back up in different ways. I use Acronis as many other people do here for periodic backups, along with Windows Home Server for automatic daily backups for all the computers I keep at home. A similar setup in effect goes for everything at the office.

I would personally suggest a combo of an Internet backup service plus periodic Acronis backups - hanging onto any major 'milestone' backups (such as initial install, major software changes, etc).

 

I was only joking about nobody backing up!

My plan was to to do weekly full system backups and keep several versions including the original. My issue, in the past, has been that some kind of corruption got into my D600 system and I wasn't quite sure when and I guess, more importantly, how in happened. The image I saved contained the same problem so I never got this resolved. Still living with windows explorer freezing for several minutes although I now suspect the Cisco service to be the issue.

All my critical source code is backed up separately with historical recall so I'm not too concerned about that. Configuring my M6500 with all the applications I needed took over a week so I'm definately not too keen on doing that again.

I took a quick look at Acronis and I have to say the reviews I read where not good. PC Magazine complained about being unable to boot after a restore! Many people seemed to take issue with their customer support.

I guess I don't understand why I should consider an alternative to the MS system image? Clearly I am missing something here. Maybe one of you PC guru's could help explain it to me or direct me somewhere that describes the pro's and con's. I'm just a simple s/w developer that writes code; I know little about the inner workings of the PC or OS.