*OFFICIAL* Alienware 17 R4 Owner's Lounge

Anyone feel like sharing the conclusion of pros and cons? Dont really have an option to watch the video right now.

 

MSI: 12 points
AW: 2 points (better webcam and better trackpad)

Suprise so both run out of the box and AW looses a lot as CPU throttheling ... yep, no excuse out of my perspective for the bugs you pay for ...

 

Well, those weren't pretty numbers for Alienware. Do we concur? Ie where they relevant conclusions?

 

A total massacre...! Although the Tripod mess, Msi took the whole contest. @hmscott A nice informative video.

 

I don't know why my GPU clock and Memory clock had this frequency : is it normal or this is a parameter in Nvidia config panel ?

 

Yes, sounds like it. Will have to view it myself.

 

Is this on a "fixed" AW17 R4, I manufactured after AW (at least it has been claimed so) fixed problems with thermal pads etc?

 

Hey, I don't make the video's, I just find'em and post them

iunlock's interviews are on the OWNORDISOWN channel too, along with other interesting video's:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTweJExGMqp3NLvzvOn-yg/videos

 

Whats the best way to determine if I have gotten a "fixed" R4 with regards to CPU temperatures without having to open it up and check the thermal pads? I run a PCMark test and checked core temps, and they were mostly within 5 degrees of each other and below 80 degrees. This is without OC by the way.

 

All the tests that show the core differential best have been run using prime95 on 8 cores for 5 - 15 minutes - no need to run it longer, try the small fft - I don't have it in front of me right now, check for the note that pops up for each option and select the one that uses most CPU - not memory.

http://www.mersenne.org/download/

Use hwinfo64 for monitoring temps and throttling.

https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php

Using lower loads and getting "favorable" readings are only going to feed your desire to not deal with it, and "live with it", which in the long run might not be possible as you do more things down the road that do load the CPU and do heat it up into throttling.

And, remember if you run the test using 100% fans instead of automatic, that's how you need to run everything that puts heavy load on the CPU to get the same temperature results, auto fans is recommended and if that isn't enough then you have a problem that needs fixing

 

OCCT or Aida64 FPU stress test only(uncheck all other tests). Run a few rounds of Cinebench R15 as well AIDA64 Extreme Edition v5.80.4000 - CINEBENCH_R15.03

 

I have owned a MSI GS70 Stealth pro for about 3 years now and I absolutely love the thing. It's a great machine and, I think, a really great design. Just a bangin' 970m gaming machine. Though thin as all get out ... light as all get out ... I've still never seen it throttle on either the CPU or GPU (others not so lucky) and I have gamed on it for hours on end with the heaviest titles available. Furthermore, the chassis is classy, solid and doesn't feel like something I would buy at a toy store.

So I'm not sure what happened with this latest iteration of MSI laptops, but the industrial build quality has diminished *dramatically*. I also owned, briefly and as a demo purchase, one of the earlier 970m Dominator machines and it too had a solid, classy feel too it. No complaints on either hand...

That said ... having handled the new GT73VR, there is no way I could ever spend money on it. The cooling, out of box performance, or whatever else not withstanding. Physically? It's rickety, cheap feeling, gaudy, garish and just embarrassing in an industrial design sense. There's no way I'd be seen in public (or private for that matter) using the thing. I'm a visual/software interface designer by trade and admit to a *serious* case of OCD when it comes to build quality and industrial design. Such factors will sway me every time towards a slightly worse performing option if the better performing option happens to offend me in a design regard.

And so it was with the GT73VR. I was considering the 1080 GT73VR before purchasing my AW17 1070 machine, but even though I knew it was a significantly faster machine and dollar for dollar was a better "performance" value ... there was just no way I would have been able to sleep at night as I would have been having full on sweaty nightmares about those hideous red "chrome" stripes on the lid and that ridiculously plastic chassis. No way man. I also hate MSI's decision to put that ridiculous white outlining around the keyboard letter keys ... so horrible. Thankfully my GS70 has the earlier Steel Series keyboard with all black keys ...

So I opted for the less powerful AW17 1070 machine and couldn't be happier with my purchase. Temps are good. The chassis seems to be made of Asgardian "Uru" ... and the battery life when running iGPU is *perfect* for long term, public, non plugged in writing sessions. The keyboard. The 1080p IPS screen overclocks like a champ to 100hz solid and the GTX 1070 GPU runs Witcher 3 at ridiculous frame rates at 1080p and maxed out (no hair works though cause I think that ****e is lame). I can turn the "running" lights off and it looks like a svelte business machine. And it's got the best keyboard I've ever used on a laptop. I absolutely *love* this AW17 rig.

...

But regarding the video review?

Sadly, I find it ridiculous that the reviewer saw freakin' 99C temps (LOL WTF!!!) on the CPU. Oh man, Dell is that embarrassing!! I've never owned an Alienware machine and so my comments above regarding how much I adore my 6700HQ/1070 AW17 are far from "fanboism" ... but it's just *shameful* that Dell would release a machine with such a seriously capable cooling system (ahem, see iUnlocks work) that is so utterly *hamstrung* by poor design/implementation choices and perhaps a "rush to market" philosophy.

So I think the reviewers conclusions are fairly accurate. But if I had to do it again? Chose between a GTX 1080 based GT73VR or a GTX1070 Alienware 17? I would still happily purchase the Alienware GTX1070 machine ... for me personally? The build quality is worth it alone ...

Like I said ... there's no way I could sleep at night knowing I'd spent money on the GT73VR.

But also in MSI's favor ... their 2 year standard warranty is really nice! So I'm not hating on MSI at all. But I nonetheless still think MSI dropped the ball with industrial design factors just as much as Dell did with their horrible cooling implementation on the 6820 machines.

So in summation?

I think it just depends on what you can live with. Horrible chassis design (that can't really be modified) or horrible cooling (that *can* be modified) ...

As with all things in this game ... it's a completely subjective decision.

Have fun.


joel.

 

Out of curiosity, anyone that actually use the 17 R4 beast for some kind of portable uses like bringing back and forth to the office each day?

 

I took my R3 just about everywhere with me and intend to do the same with the R4. The 330w psu on the 1080 model makes it a little more difficult, but eh. The overall dimensions feel larger on the R4 than on the R3, but that could just be in my head. I have yet to travel with my R4 outside of the home as I am not 100% sure I will be keeping it... I go back and fourth about the QHD screen nearly every time I look at it... it just seems fuzzy and the colors are very muted. I got this as more of a "Do Everything" buy not just a gaming machine, so I am really thinking I may be better off with the 1070 and 4k instead of the 1080 and qhd+.

 

I do *exactly* that. Every single work day. I have a dedicated desktop rig at home and so I never use the AW17 at home unless I'm doing something intensive on the desktop (stress testing, etc.).

I set up each morning at my company desk, using an external mechanical keyboard, mouse and 144hz 1080p monitor. The AW17 sits on a NZXT laptop cooler (at least 5C drop in load temps) and I connect to the Asus 144hz monitor with a mini display port to display port cable. It rocks so hard.

The laptop is heavy, sure .. but hey, a 25 second walk from my car to my desk and vice versa when leaving is no issue.

...

Otherwise, like right now, during off hours, I spend quite a bit of time in public spaces using the AW17 as a writing/blogging vehicle and it works splendidly for this ... especially when switching to the Intel GPU as it dramatically extends the battery life.

But as an office machine? Working great ...

 

Hey iunlock. What would it take to have you fix my R4 up? My wife bought this rig for me along with the premium service through Dell. Will they do this fix or do you know if a 3rd re-paste will affect the warranty?

Edit: Dell's website says a 3rd party re-paste will not void warranty as long as nothing is damaged.

 

Wait till you see what he does with them .. mine runs very very good now!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So I just played a little R6 Siege and checked the temps while playing and 2 cores got to 97, 1 at 94, 1 at 86. My unit was built after December 6th, probably closer to December 20th. This was at the factory OC3 (highest) but still, these temps seem pretty high to me. FWIW I didn't see any dips in performance though, so provided its ok to run this hot all the time, I guess its not the end of the world. I do have the 4 years premium w/ accidental so if something happens, not my dime.

With that said, the screen looked great while gaming. I haven't used a 120hz panel before and it was great. Max settings and I was getting well above 60fps. Again with my complaint about the colors being washed, but ugh, alienware didn't make this easy did they.

 

Send it to iunlock it will not touch those temps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I appreciate iunlock for all that he does, but I don't think that should be the answer to a brand new 3k laptop. Alienware's whole brand was built on people wanting a gaming computer that just works... one that also has good support. They have always said you can get the same specs for less if you build it yourself, but know that there is a market for people who have good jobs and rather spend more $$ for a good system that just works and works well. I used to be a tinker'er who would happily put together a desktop or turn a wrench to get more performance. Now that I am older, I don't exactly have that kind of time or patience. I have a daughter, demanding job, and even more demanding spouse. That 1 or 2 hours that I have as me time is just that... me time. Not project, lets get this to work time, its unwind and relax because if not I will be a stressball for the next 24+ hours.

With that said, I am not saying that this level of performance is bad. Sure, its a thinner laptop with a 1080 running at a decent voltage. The razer blade pro is pretty nerfed and I don't see as much of a loss here. Would I have liked it to run cooler, sure, but it is what it is.

No disrespect to anyone, just my 2c opinions here. I guess I just had my expectations set a little higher seeing that there was a "fix" and maybe its not really a fix at all.

*Gets down from soapbox*

 

Mine doesn't get as hot as others (Battlefield 1 @ 80 fps and temp ~80-85 C) and I don't really mess with overclocking but these numbers are not great. I imagine it may get worse with time.

 

It's been a while since I last posted here,
I thought I'd give a final update. Even though not on topic anymore.

So I switched to a desktop, here an overview why I did.

So I was planning to either buy the Asus G800vi an 18" gtx 1080 laptop that had 4k ips gsync monitor, that looked like a spaceship and costs 4500€
Or the alienware 17 with the gtx 1080.

The issue with the asus one, still not released, still no specified release date, I'm missing out on the 10 series gpu of nvidia. At this rate it will release when the gtx 11 series release. Also very expensive, and not a fan of the spaceship like design.
The issue with the alienware one was, if you chose the gtx 1080, I had no 4k monitor, and I was obligated to get a tn panel which I hate.
Apart from that I won't be doing a repaste like iUnlock so the heat also seems to be a major issue on these machines. Apart from that on the alienware I also have to give up on digital/surround sound, It had one less normal usb port forcing me to get a type c dongle, and many more small details.

Since I'm no college student anymore for 3-4 years, and don't really need the portability anymore, I thought, screw it I'm going for a desktop, because NOTHING compares to the versatility and the amount of choices you have on a desktop.
For the interested this is my new desktop


Specs are in the details.

And I have to admit, the experience of a fully fledged mechanical keyboard, a 27 inch g-sync 4k ips monitor. Only now I do realize what I was missing out on. But of course this doesn't apply to everyone as portability is KEY for most of the people here I reckon. Luckily it was not in my case.

Sorry for the off topic content, however I felt like writing this as I have been an alienware notebook user for quite some time now and, was even planning to get an alienware again until they recently managed to change my mind

 

Perhaps I should have added some kind of "and commutes" to my question

Do you also use it in meetings etc? Thats when things can start to get a bit embarrassing, especially if you have to bring out the gigant PSU after 30 minutes to charge

 

Relevant conclusions are the MSI still looks like a sad little toy and really deserves to be in some 12 year old kid's bedroom. From the bezel to the trackpad and everything inbetween it screams tacky and cheap (but is rather pricey)

If you want something more grown up and are prepared to tinker with, get the AW or hold out for something else.

 

Just completed perhaps 20 minutes of Prime5 Small FFT and temps where about 50-70 degrees and at most 10 degree difference between the cores. Not done any OC yet, but at least was running on High performance mode (with auto fans). Are those OK number?

 

Totally agree here, being force to do stuff like this on a brand new $3000 laptop is NOT OK.

 

Would imagine that that is the setup most people would be using. Just because it is a laptop doesn't mean you cant plug it in to an external monitor and keyboard. That said, I have also been considering giving up on gaming laptops in favor of a desktop as there are so many problems with the gaming laptops to date it seems.

 

Turn the lights off and the AW will look very much "in place" in a meeting, although quite huge. And if you run off the iGPU and not the Nvidia card? You'll get 5 to 8 hours easy and so there would be no need to use the PSU at all ...

 

I guess you don't do a lot of meetings in the financial sector

iGPU isn't possible since Dell forces GSync on all 1080 laptops

 

My laptop sits on my desk at the office, where I use it some of the time, not a lot. I am usually in a couple of other work areas where I use bog standard Dell desktop boxes running the commercial (non graphical) software. I game from time to time at the office, in my office.

I do carry my laptop to the beach house a couple of times a month, and travel 3-4 times a year when I will bring the laptop. I also have a 13 in ASUS zenbook of somesort with a m980 graphics card. This laptop is what I carry around day to day, mostly working on it, but I can get into my MMOs and do some stuff, specially if I have access to a power outlet.

Before I had the beach house, I had MacBookPros, and did not game much away from my desk at the office, or at home, where my main rig is.

Composing this made me remember playing the early Everquest game on early gaming desktop computers. I had to keep the computer box open, and point a box fan at the inside of the box to keep it cool enough to play more than a half hour or so.

 

I take my AW everyday to the office, business trips and gaming at home. No one ever took a second look at my laptop with the lights off. The only gaming laptop brand i really like.

 

I was allowed to get "any computer I wanted" within my company budget and got an alienware 15 (r1 or 2 I think). The first day that I brought it to my office, my boss kindly asked me to return it as it was too gaudy and he didn't want me to be in front of clients with that "thing". The newer version blends in more and looks a little more like a macbook to the unknowing person, but I would not bring this to a professional environment if I was at all concerned about drawing attention.

 

BTW: this might offend the "cleaning purists" but I've found that this very generic, "safe for all lenses" lens cleaner works fantastic for cleaning the sort of "rubberized" wrist rest area on the AW17:


...

It's very gentle. You have to spray and wipe a few times but it eventually will remove all the fingerprints and smudges quite nicely.

FYI

 

Actually, I've done *tons* of meetings in the financial sector; was Assistant Vice President of Network Services for Chase Treasury Solutions for about three years, here in Houston ... downtown offices, about as "financial" and conservative as you can imagine. Three piece suit every day and what not. Sadly, this was prior to owning an Alienware machine. Me and my other software jockeys were using IBM Thinkpads at the time.

Still ... with the lights off? I can't find anything offensive about the Alienware design. Very svelte and business like when it needs to be.

;-)

 

Gaming Temps: (Overwatch)

These are Max Temps after 4 Hours of Gaming.

Note:
Max GPU Power: 179.220W
Max GPU Temp: 59C

CPU Overclocked: 4.0GHz
Max CPU Temps: 68, 69, 68, 67
Avg CPU Temps: 58, 58, 61, 58

Stock Fan Profile: 47db when on max.
Ambient Temp: 22C
Laptop Location: On top of my desk with rear lifted about 2.5cm (>1 inch)



HAPPY NEW YEARS!

 

Dat dedicated iGPU battery life, though ... LOL ... for my daily usage scenario, working in public spaces so often, this is just a complete win ...

6700HQ/GTX1070 AW17 BTW ... so stoked I opted for the 1070/1080p machine ...

...

 

Dells premuim warranty is amazing. They will take your call at 3am, ship parts and a tech out to you next business day. I even had a depot repair take less than a week durring these hollidays. And thats shipping times included.

There is still some value in keeping your machine away from its heat limits. I had to get my mobo replaced 3 times and it still didnt work properly (although 2 of those were purely the throttling issues with the 17 r2). If its a year or more after you bought it the parts used as replacements will most likely be refurbished.

One of the best games to test with. Well programmed multi threaded renderer keeps a really high load on cpu and gpu. That 800mhz though scares the crap outa me. Please tell me that was not in game. I had the same issue on my old laptop. Made it unplayable.

 

Oh no haha that was reset before the game was even turned on.

The game ran flawlessly. Zero hiccups and the GTX 1080 just smashed the game at 1440p + Maxed settings.



::iunlock::

 

I get what your saying, trust me, I do. However, to use the words, "gaming laptop" + "cool temps" in the same sentence is still an oxymoron and to expect that out of any machine is just not going to happen.

To clarify, no... 80C or 90C is not acceptable nor is it considered cool Temps. Especially when it could be running 20C-30C cooler.

We're all shaking our heads at these OEM's, because the systems should be running at least decent out of the box under full load and without power limits.

There are some things that are subjective, but to be okay with high Temps in the 80C's+ is not ideal. If you're limited on time, which is completely understandable, perhaps a gaming laptop is not the best choice for you.

At the most a GTX 1060 maybe? It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Shame on these OEM's. It's a pity I know.



::iunlock::

 

I have the AW 17R4 | 6820HK | QHD | 512GB m.2 | 32GB <stock crap paste>

Went to turn the computer on, and the system gave me the "proverbial finger" with the alien power button logo turning blue, then 3 red blips. The side lights were on, the ALIENWARE logo is illuminated, as well as the alien logo on the outer display. System not booting...

Tried powering it on both on battery and with the AC power adapter connected (back in my days at Dell, that used to make a difference during troubleshooting).

I called Alienware support, and during the 17 minutes I was on hold waiting to get an agent, I kept turning it on and off...

After countless attempts, (I really didn't keep track) the system finally powered on, and brought me to a recovery screen where it gave me a CMOS failure message.

The tech agent answered the phone about the same time the system finally "felt" like booting. He had me run the diagnostics, (which passed), but all the while, the power button alien logo continued to flash blue with the 3 red flashes...

It was determined that the MB needed to be replaced due to some "CMOS failure"... Fine, whatever... I'm going to repaste/repad the MB anyways, so I got the tech to send me the parts without a tech and the part arrived in a couple of days.

The MB came with no thermal paste stamps and no pads... Just a bare board with a new Win10 product key...

I called Dell and asked what I was supposed to use for thermal paste and the pads between the heatshield component and the CPU, GPU and the MB and was told to just scrape/peel the old stuff off and re-apply it to the new board... Huh?

I told the agent that this wasn't acceptable and that I would need new thermal paste and pads for a proper MB replacement... I was placed on hold for a while, and was told that he had (magically) found a kit containing thermal compound and pads that should have been sent with the MB...

(I have no intent on using what Dell sends out, but am curious to see what they have in their "kit" and will post pics of the contents when it arrives)

Below are some pics of the replacement MB front and back... Here's my question though... Take a look at the CMOS/RTC battery connector... Is it supposed to be crooked like that? How picky should I be? (should I keep the board or make them send me a new one?)

Some may say I should return the system and make them send me a new one, as I'm already having an issue worthy of a MB replacement within the first 30 days, but the way I look at it, I've got a clean board from which I can apply Grizzly's Conductonaut and the poly 11.5 w/mk pads (with the help of iUnlock's amazing guide).

Worst case? I have Dell's "accidental damage" warranty, and well, things can always happen and I get another system anyways...

Thoughts?

 

Well, these days most normal people complain about their 12" ultrabooks are to heavy compared to their iPads

 

R6S Gpu by MSGaldenzi posted Dec 31, 2016 at 4:07 PM

R6S Temps by MSGaldenzi posted Dec 31, 2016 at 4:06 PM

Here are my temps after about 20 minutes of Rainbow Six Siege

 

First it was kg/lbs. ...now it's about grams LOL.... oh how times have changed.

Strangely enough, I'm glad the new AW's are heavy. The feeling of confidence.

 

Hey PandahNZ can I redirect you to the following page for my experience: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...assembly-repaste-guide-results.797373/page-79

I received my laptop yesterday and its an absolute beast, I'm pleased with the thermals as well. Stable at 3.9Ghz at max of 82C and average of 70C on 15 mins of OCCT. 21626 firestrike and I've only just started. Repaste and pad with LM tomorrow :O

Also I'm not a fussy person but I cannot see any light bleed or horizontal lines on my QHD panel, it's awesome and super bright. Perfect for gaming! Runs beautiful on my 4K TV!

I'm UK based as well

 

Sounds great man! Got some nice looking results without the repaste, gives me hope haha. Mine is scheduled for 12th of Jan here in Germany, fingers crossed!

 

Hey @iunlock what do you mean by tuned profiles to further reduce temps? Is it just under volting the cores until they're stable and at even lower temps or is there something else you're doing which I'm missing as well?

 

Gaming Temps: (Overwatch)

These are Max Temps after 4 Hours of Gaming.

Note:
Max GPU Power: 181.976W
Max GPU Temp: 59C (Still never exceeds 59C)

CPU Overclocked: 3.6GHz
Max CPU Temps: 65, 65, 65, 65 (~3C-4C Cooler than at 4.0GHz)
Avg CPU Temps: 54, 53, 55, 56 (~4C-5C Cooler than at 4.0GHz)

Stock Fan Profile: 47db when on max.
Ambient Temp: 22.3C
Laptop Location: On top of my desk with rear lifted about 2.5cm (>1 inch)



HAPPY NEW YEARS!

 

Just ran Firestrike again...



Nice and stable and no repaste yet! Only a 145W draw on the GPU so far.

@iunlock I guess that means theres a lot more headroom to O/C the GPU? What app did you use to get the 174W draw from your GPU? Do you have details of what you use to tune your GPU and what your O/C Clock, Mem and Voltage offset is? (you can see mine is +0.150V so far)

 

HWiNFO64

Can you upload your pic to a third party site like imgur as NBR's img upload isn't the greatest.

Thanks.

 

No! So actually the difference is now a lot less and that review was not with the best panel in my opinion (the 120Hz QHD G-SYNC)

Dunno about you but I could never have the MSI when it's nearly twice as thick and looks like it's been designed by a ten year old!