M17x DPC Latency

Mine will lock up and freeze with just surfing the net, playing simple games and even worse with trying to watch anything online or even play an intense graphic games, also getting the stuttering.

I have already had my motherboard replaced and all the software and drivers reinstalled by alienware tech support and I am still having problems.

It is nice that they are admitting a problem with the motherboard so hopfully there will be a fix soon or a replacement.

 

Exactly the same problems here!

 

I have a three year warranty. They'll fix it.

I get almost no stutters in games - its just movie and music that demonstrate the stutter in my case. I game like crazy on mine.

I was smart enough to buy a Mac for important things. My M17x is just a toy.

 

i also have three year warranty but i find it hard to believe that Dell would actually replace the entire laptop..sure they'll replace the mobo...i hope

 

Ok so just a few people have lock up issue.

If so I believe Dell will try to replace GPU as much as they can. Some lucky people will get a R2 as replacement but I doubt Dell will officially recall all R1 and swap it with R2.

And I was smart enough to sell my MBP and get a M17x for important things. My MBP was just a toy

 

I have been dealing with these issues since I received my notebook at the beginning of Dec. I have spent countless hours on the phone with tech support and countless hours reinstalling windows and drivers to a point that I haven't put anything on this system because it won't work properly, all I want is a good working notebook.

What will the fix be for this, new motherboard and gpu's?

 

I would be perfectly happy with a PM45 based motherboard for the M17x I think. It is a solid chipset and I liked it in my whitebook (same as the M17)

 

You read me wrong if you think I said they'll replace the laptop with an R2. They surely won't. But you'll get a new mobo if that is what they say the fix is. Or a bios/driver. Whatever form it comes in it will be a fix - thats all I want.

 

LOL me too. I traded my $2200 uMBP for the M17x (straight trade ). Gaming on the 9600m was less fun that's for sure.

I have an iMac for important things like photos and such. The M17x is struictly for gaming. Might be why the stutter is just an inconvenience for me where it is driving other folk crazy.

 

A straight trade is too nice

Stutter is a minor issue for me too.

Do you guys think the new mobo Dell's gonna offer (let's assume that) is compatible with i7 or a mobo that is compatible with both Core 2 and i7 is simply impossible?

 

Unless you used two seperate chipsets and sockets, a single mobo supporting both is impossible, it'd either be an intel based montevina board, or a new I7 based board.

 

to support crossfire and the montevina proc's it would have to be a PM45 based board similar to the one in the M17 (but hopefully with the better power circuitry of the M17x boards out now )

 

That'd be a nice board. Guess it depends on whether this happens, and whether they mean a new c2 board, or just shifting to the new I7 design.

 

Frankly, I will be happy with a PM45 board or an i7 setup (since they would be providing me the i7 cpu as well)

 

This reminds me about a year or so ago, when Dell had to replace all the XPS 700 Desktop user's motherboard with the new XPS 720 motherboard. It took a while, but they did follow through with the plan. You could either install it yourself or a tech would do it for you. If I remember correctly, it was updated throughout on the Direc2Dell blog.

The great thing about the whole deal was that they even included the ones that people bought from the Outlet during a certain time period.

Hoping if something similar goes down, they'll include the outlet purchasers too!

 

No new mobo will be designed.
It's either the current one or the R2'. The question only how Dell will do it in the least expensive way for them. If the R2 has the same design (ports positions) they might just swap the mobo along with a new CPU. If it requires some more work they might just switch us to R2.

 

ya that reminded me of this as well

 

If they gave us all an R2 board though, they have to give us CPUs as well. And that will be alot more cost to them - keeping a new motherboard as a possibility still. Flextronics has made PM45 boards before, they could do it again. And it would probably not need to be too radical of a difference from the R2 board making it cheaper for them to design.

 

It costs a lot of money to produce a new motherboard, designing/testing/manufacturing & time invested. The cheapest solution will be replacing the whole system or mobo&cpu. By far.

 

the i7s are actually cheaper and Dell already has the contracts/orders for R2 mobos/CPUs. They just need to add a few more hundreds of these.
They might get away with it just fine ordering nothing extra if they win some more time by making few more excuses (John will update us a couple more times ) they will just use the broken/returned M17X-R2 machines for parts and thus replace our mobos/CPUs with no additional headaches.
Just one of the possible ways to do business

 

I have wasted so much time on trying to get the notebook working and it still doesn't work properly.

So is there any point in calling tech support to try to get things resolved with the stuttering and locking up?

 

730i is not pin compatible with PM45, so it will have to be a new design - probably based off the M17. This will be cheap - probably a $50 cost (max) part and 3 hours or labor. Nvidia will pay a large portion of the bill.

way cheaper then r2.

 

guys i ve been away for 4 days and i can see many news on dcp latency thread.

first of all what is this M17XR2 on dell website? is it a new M17X or an M17X with replaced deficient parts which people with dpc latency can request from dell?

secondly are there any news for the nvidia driver fix supposed to fix the issue?

 

The M17XR2 is the new, refreshed model with i-core CPUs, intel mobo, etc...
There are no news regarding the latency/stuttering fix except for the fact that with ATI cards (my 280s were replaced with 4870s yesterday) the latency is close to zero (rare spikes near 5k). That's all.

 

pretty sure the dpc is on many other laptops with nvidia graphics and win 7

its the same on my gateway 7901h and my sold asus g71

 

And people try to blame Alienware as much as they can

 

it is easy to jump on the hate bandwagon

 

Who knows, maybe the service pack 1 will address the issue. W7 is a new hatchling, it's still weak and unstable.
Even though I never had a huge problem with stuttering in games, gotta tell you that 4870s run really smooth! And I will keep the machine unless its mobo is announced defective.

 

It seemed like even my BIOS screen looks sharper with the 4870s lol

 

heck, I noticed that too

 

good, it is not just me lol

 

Anyone knows if this is true, after 3 hours with Costa Rica tech support...he told me that if you use AC power you'll have less stutter sound/video than battery? As soon as I unplug the ac cord...red bars hit the roof? Is that normal...anyone can confirmed this? Tech also say that when testing test it with nothing running...close all programs? is that rite...how do we know that it won't stutter agian...well, after 3 hours it looked promising..with all low greens than I went to youtube DAM!!! agian...at the beginning of a video...then stops..should I respawn the OS???? It's really starting to bugg me!!!

 

Tonight I wanted to re-examine the A03 BIOS and how it was to fix the DPC Latency issue. When it was released by Dell, the first issue I found after flashing was a 10+ degree temp increase on GPU#2. This was a major 'no' in my book so I immediately reverted back to A02 without further testing. I really didn't look at it closely when I had it installed, so tonight I gave it another try.

After flashing BIOS A03 tonight the system was rebooted as part of the flash process. Prior to flashing, I re-enabled Hybrid Graphics and Integrated Graphics in the BIOS since I typically have these two disabled (more on why later).

After the reboot, I allowed the system to idle for a bit. GPU#2 was in-line with GPU#1. I did notice a difference of roughly 5 degrees over BIOS A02 across the board. Not a 'OMG' difference, but enough to catch my eye.

I opened up the DPC Latency Checker. As before during my initial install of BIOS A03, the nice red spikes were missing and all was green. I opened up WMP and proceeded to listen to a bunch of MP3s I have in my library. After a few moments of playback, I noticed the audio popping which so many complain about. What is important to note is I do not have this occur under BIOS A02. I am able to listen to MP3s without issue and have not had any problems whatsoever after implementing the startup/service tweaks which I have posted on my blog. For good measure, I depressed some of the touch strip buttons. As we all know now, depressing the Eject button will spike badly. I also had spikes when depressing the volume buttons and testing but not confirming Stealth Mode. On this note, I can somewhat expect the latency checker to spike given we are implementing instruction. Should it do this? No. Can they fix it? Possible - depending on how the touch strip ties into the OS and the OSD software.

One interesting point I would like to share. I believe the discussion surrounding the NVIDIA MCP79 chipset is valid. It may be a simple chipset driver compatibility issue or worse, an actual hardware issue with this chipset. I say this for the following reason:

I believe why I do not experience the audio popping has heavy ties to the 9400M G being enabled. After flashing back to BIOS A02, I left both Hybrid Graphics and Integrated Graphics enabled. Opening WMP and launching the same set of MP3s resulted in intermittent audio popping/skipping. Not as bad as BIOS A03, but it was present. Another interesting note which I have documented before, under WMP, if you have Visualizations enabled (you know, the nice visual effects to the beat of the music), audio skipping/popping is a given and much more pronounced under A03 vs A02.

So, what does all of this mean? Well, IMO (just my opinion folks - not the word of the Great Alien Controller), disabling Hybrid Graphics and Integrated Graphics as well as killing visualizations in your Media Player App will cut back/eliminate any audio playback issues. BIOS A02 seems a better choice at this time given the better thermal table. I believe with A03, Dell Engineering was more focused on ‘what would eliminate the RED SPIKES in the DPC Latency Checker’ and not concerned about the impact this would have on thermals. Granted, 5 degrees is not a big difference, but we all love the coolness of the M17x.

So take this with a grain of salt of course. This is just one opinion/observation. I am now back on A02 and enjoying my system as always. I still see the red spikes as all of us do under A02, it’s just not impacting my system (media playback or any other area).

What I would like to see from Dell is a definitive response as to what the engineering team found. John-B specifically stated in his blog post:

If we knew what these ‘causes’ were, we – the community, most likely could contribute to the ‘fix’ process by testing. I am (as all of you are) eager to find out if what Denver posted is in fact valid. A Support Rep can say anything to a customer if they want to end the call. Let's all keep this in mind and give Dell a chance to respond.

In closing, the fps stuttering issue is a non-issue for me. I have also had no lockups. I can't give you a definitive reason why - I just count myself lucky I guess. Perhaps it is a combination of the tweaks I mentioned in addition to other factors (not OCing the GPUs or CPU, 9400M disabled, Power Profile tweaks, etc.) - I don't know. Believe me, I am not happy that I have to kill AlienFX or any other service/startup item or the 9400M G. Its what seems to work though. I want this system to function correctly without having to tweak it like this.

Note:
The attached screenshot is during audio playback with BIOS A03 using WMP (WMP was minimized and running in the tasktray - no other apps running except for HWMonitor and the Checker). The first 4 spikes are the audio pops/skips. The grouping of spikes are the touch strip button presses.

 

Batboy,

Thanks for the post. I would like to add one thing you probably know already. I bet all of those red spikes(the ones that hit the roof) are caused by the change of clock speed of the GPUs. I also think that this Bios is suited more for Windows 7 than Windows Vista.

 

Wow! What a post

With either IGP and Hybrid SLI disable or Hybrid SLI enabled in Performance mode I have audio stutter issue. In other words, when my dual GPUs running I have audio issue.

But the DPC Latency Checker will stay green all the time with no popping sound at all if I just leave my system alone playing media and do nothing else.

If I disable dual GPUs everything is perfect no matter what.

I have no lock up nor FPS dropping with both BIOS version. No diffrence in temp of each GPU either.

 

Yeah Rotsu... the only issue I have with that is during the time I captured the screenshot, clocks were at low default since I was at the desktop (200/100). There was no change in clock speeds since the GPUs were not under load. WMP was minimzed. This is why I am really looking at that MCP79 being a prime suspect . There are many reasons other than just clock speed changes which can produce those spikes. This was determined with the 'Eject' button fiassco.

Hopefully, Dell will clarify this - not going to hold my breath though.

 

Please any body with Nvidia GPU's physically take one out and then run it .... No spikes = chipset problem like i was saying.

All i can tell you is my single GPU and dual core did not EVER stutter or lock up or anything .... i listened to pandora and WMP all the time. I spent time talking to some one who tested this whole thing and they confirmed with me that a single card did not stutter but dual cards did. Also the stuttering was FAR less when they had a dual core instead of a qx9300.

Like i said before if they declare it defective you will get R2 mobo swaps you will not get a PM45 board. That makes absolutely no sense and would cost Dell more then if they just swapped out the mobo. It would also take alot longer to design then test then produce then inventory then get out procedure for tech support then schedule techs then you finally get the swap ....


Its obvious its the chipset .... you normally never have this issue with a chipset.... If it was the cards then the M17 or Asus W90p wouild have issues.

Do you not think its strange the only other high end laptop with this chipset stutters?

OR

The fact Clevo delayed the laptop for 1.5 months due to stuttering on the system. Then at released quickly said they had disabled the 9400 at a bios level so you could not use it ? They did it for a reason and i do not buy the " GPU's were stuttering and so we placed foam under them".

The system has a crappy chipset that was not properly tested ... Clevo tried to copy Dell and it bit them in the rectum... This model was not the best design and now its bitting Dell back.

I am thinking here but trust me ....

 

The XPS M1730 suffered from the same exact issues with DPC Latency/audio stuttering during playback. The XPS M1730 uses an Intel based chipset. The Inspiron 1525 also suffers from DPC Latency/Audio issues. It uses the Intel 965 chipset as well. The Studio XPS 1640 also has reports of DPC Latency issues. It uses an Intel PM45 chipset.

As to the stuttering issue related to the CPU, I had audio stuttering when the T9800 was in the system. It was only after tweaking the system that the audio stuttering issue was resolved - both with the T9800 and the QX9300.

Not arguing with you Moo, just pointing out a few background points along the DPC Latency Trail. DPC Latency has been a factor on several notebook models and manufacturers. There are many factors here and I believe they vary with each model.

As to how Dell will address this issue, we can only wait for their next response. Speculation as to how it will be addressed or if its in fact defective is just that, speculation and nothing more.

 

True enough Moo and good reasoning

Personally, PM45 or PM55, I will still gladly accept whatever solution they come up with (given I should have an M11x by then so will no longer need the prolonged battery life of the 9400m)

 

M17 had issues as well

I know lots of systems have it... But less dont have it then do

I know no chipset is perfect... but i am saying the 9400m in here has the issue and it clearly seen from the M98nu and the M17x BOTH having the issue. Even the M98nu has it withe the 9400 turned off at a bios level.

I know loads of laptops have the issue and some are just bad designs but you cannot merely look past 2 totally different laptops that have the same chipset and the same issues and call it coincidence

They could eventually find a way to calm it down .... but i dont see them doing that .... IMO the amount of money they have they will just replace them with i7 and then move on....

 

the M17 had no sound issues and the 3d stutter was directly shown to be due to power issues in the motherboard. zFactor was able to fix this by addressing the power tables in the BIOS

Also Moo, the 17" MBP is a 9400m + 9600m GT, it obviously does not have these issues as Mac users would not accept it in a notebook that is supposed to be good for AV work (not that we are accepting it)

 

Refer to my part where it was not meant as a high end chipset and i had no spikes with a single card

The M17 did have high DPC rates but it never affected it much ... I know mine did and my brothers.... But it was fixed last i remembered

I know it is in the MBP i have one here now

Under load this thing drops its bowels simple as that .....

 

If that is the case then I doubt any will argue with Dell. However, given the # of units sold and knowing Dell's response to recall type issues (other than batteries), just look at the XPS M1530 and XPS M1330 for an idea - well, that's why I said I wont hold my breath. I am all for it though.

 

MBP has DPC Latency issue?

 

what did they do for those 2 models BatBoy? I am new to the in-depth world of laptops. Before June 2009 I just hoped they worked lol (look how far I have come!)

 

Better yet, this one you should know first hand is the M1730 ha what recall ?

 

Well, not wanting to move way OT here, but with the M1530 and the M1330 they both suffered from failing GPUs whicvh were caused at the manufacturing level @ NV. Dell's solution was to extend the warranty - not replace the issue or recall the units. Obviously, we are dealing with a different issue here entirely since its not failing hardware. In addition to the warranty extension, Dell also released a BIOS patch to "correct" the issue which was nothing more than having the BIOS kick the fans on constantly while the unit was powered up. This resulted in less heat up-cool down/heat up-cool down 'rinse and repeat' type cycles. More on this can be found here:
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/...ate-limited-warranty-enhancement-details.aspx

What was even worse about that situation was that Dell continued to sell the M1330. Crazy.

EDIT:
The XPS M1730 was never recalled. It was killed as it was end-of-life in the Dell Production Cycle. There was never any acceptance on Dell's part the XPS M1730 suffered from the same issue. IMO, the M1730 suffered from the 'rinse and repeat' cycle due to a non-functioning PowerMizer. For those interested in that aspect, you can find several posts by myself as well as Kade Storm and others in the XPS M1730 OL.

 

Note Scook that the defective units had 8xxx Nvidia chips ... you know the sentenced to death at birth ones?

This is on Dell's hands this time NOT Nvidia so time will tell...but it is nvidias chipset..... So who do you point the finger at?

I point it at Nvidia .... since both the M98nu and M17x have issues,,,,

 

Bios A03 has helped me:

 

Well, i'm skeptical to Dells response regarding a recall....but i DO hope i get a replacement mobo.