M17x DPC Latency

NO! the red spikes i am talking about are until 5800μs the most and under certain occasions. most spikes are like yours or even yellow. how did you get this red spike? I rarely get 999000 spikes that may or may not occur once per hour or so even on idle which is actually my main point about motherboard power issues but i have to do something like listening to music to notice it as it lasts 1 sec, or just leave the dpc latency checker recording while on idle.

Except the above i get nice green bars with the ATIs.

 

that's exactly my point... by switching to ATI cards you got rid of problems #2 and 3, but you're still stuck with problem #1. Call it a motherboard issue or a chipset issue it seems to be a common problem with all nvidia chipset users. Also I believe I read somewhere, either on this thread or a similar one, that nvidia had acknowledged an important problem with their chipset...

Of course if you moved to the R2 version you would have an intel chipset and be 100% stutter-free.

 

My netbook (Nvidia chipset) just had a 5 million DPC spike.

 

So, you scored an R2 replacement. . . nice one.

 

Lost all hope m8, but an unexpected phone call from Dell changed everything. Apparently someone heard my scream for help eventually and decided to put an end to it.

 

So after I did all the stuff the tech told me to do to fix this issue (without fixing it). He says that I will have to wait for a fix from nvida he said It could "take weeks". sigh

 

Ring them back and tell them that's not good enough and ask for it to be escalated. As it stands you consider the laptop unusable ( ) as it's not even suitable for basic use, and thus it is unfit for purpose.
You either want it fixed or replaced.

You may have to fight a little, but getting it escalated so you can claim a refund is the very least you may be able to do
Try that

 

Thanks for the advice alex but my system is a replacement so I don't think a refund applies.

 

At least ask for 4870's then. That will fix your stutter.

 

You're right Zath... my apologies. Its been so long since I had the M1730 I was blending this issue.

For those of you unfamiliar with the XPS M1730, Dell has a software component (QuickSet) similar to AlienFX which included a module (LightFX) to control the System LEDs. This component could be used with WMP as a Visualization. When active, the system LEDs would pulsate to the beat of the music. This was producing the spikes and audio interrupts. When it was disabled, the audio interrupts were eliminated.

Thanks Zath and Kade for the refresher

BTW, this has nothing to do with our issue on the M17x - so anyone thinking of killing AlienFX... lol.

Perhaps the Intel based owners reporting the issue on NVDIA's forum have a similar component. Hard to say. I feel like walking into BestBuy with a USB Thumb Drive and testing each lappie using GPUz and the DPC checker. lol?

 

Hello all, New M17x owner and new poster here. Been following this thread for a few weeks as I've been experiencing periodic random spikes in the 65k range while at idle and clusters of spikes while browsing the net or performing other routine tasks. This post caught my attention because last night I loaded up Game Booster and tried it out for the first time with Microsoft FSX. When I started the program, it informed me of 2 unnecessary applications that I could shut down. 1 was the java updater, and the other was AlienFX. I simmed for about 3 hours then after shutting down the sim, I decided to run the DPC Latency checker just for kicks. I let it run for about 15 minutes and only saw one spike (it spiked when I opened the program). Don't know if it's related or not but it's the first time I've ever shutdown AlienFX and the first time I haven't seen significant spiking.

Duo Core 2.8GHz, Single Nvidia 260M, 4GB RAM

 

Regarding Java Update Scheduler, it really doesnt need to run @ startup. My personal preference is to always disable these little items. With AlienFX, I've had it disabled @ startup since receiving my M17x. I found disabling it actually improved startup time slightly. AlienFX tends to load last (slow loading startup item). When disabled, you can still access the AlienFX functions - you have to first launch the AlienFXController manually to get to them. I have a little shortcut in the quicklaunch bar just for this purpose

From what I have seen, both of these items have no impact and generate no DPC Latency spikes resulting in audio interrupts.

Good observation though - thanks for sharing it.

 

Well, we do get the 40+ spikes, BatBoy, so perhaps it is related, but different on grounds of extent.

 

just to remind you we shouldnt also forget the red spikes when pressing any of the quick launch buttons, which still persists no matter nvidias or ATIs. It is only slightly reduced with ATIs but important on a audio stuttering level. why? because i got 65000 spikes with nvidias and now i get 42000 with ATIs. 42000 red spikes not able to cause audio stuttering. I dont know which is the limit to hear an audio stuttering but its somewhere between 42000 and 65000.#


thus for those who have serious stuttering issues even with ATIs can you please check this info on cpuz? is it the same for all of you?

 

are you talking about the touchstrip? when you say 'quick launch'?

 

i mean the touch buttons above the keyboard (eject , volume buttons etc). they were called quick launch buttons on my old hp which is dead now. i guess i still call them like that. lool

 

Well, other than the eject button which I feel is a non-issue as you are generating an actual hardware interrupt with that button, the rest of them are ok. I just now fired up the checker and turned the volume all the way up. I depressed and held, depressed once, depressed and held the volume down button until the level was zero - no spikes.

Could be due to Vista as I believe you are on 7 so --- not sure what to tell you. Sorry.

 

Wow, that's a dream latency for 280s! Do you have the acpi disabled right now?

 

Nope. BIOS A03 (A03 corrected the ACPI issue with A00-A02) and Vista. Just sitting here working on a few emails and IE is open. HWMonitor running. 9400 currently disabled (although I have tested with it enabled and disabled and it changes nothing in terms of the 65k+ spike, not a factor).

EDIT:

Here's a cap of DPC - been listening to some MP3s in WMP for the last 15 mins or so while working and of course no problems (no, I dont know where that one red spike came from but it didnt cause an audio interrupt so Im not worried about it). This is norm for my M17x - has been since August when I first started tweaking and disabled Visualizations.

Again, because I know someone is going to mention it - NO, this is not a fix, nor does it negate the severity of the DPC issue on the M17x. It does seem to work though.

 

I have the exact same info on CPU-Z.

 

Just so I am clear, this is with the integrated OFF and you are using the two 280's? Not the hybrid setup you were using in an earlier post? Am I getting you confused with someone else??

 

That is correct. I have both discrete GPUs active and the 9400 is currently disabled via the BIOS (remember, both Hybrid and Integrated need to be set to disabled). I am running Vista. Also, from my observations, I found that having the 9400 enabled did not impact or change any spikes - so having it enabled is fine.

Also, I might as well confirm this here although I should post it in the BIOS A03 thread... from my testing I was able to determine what Dell changed in A03 to eliminate all of the sub 8k spikes we saw under the previous BIOS versions.

A03 corrected the ACPI issue. The ACPI issue we observed using ProcessHacker is completely resolved. The ACPI calls to the CPU thermal sensor were reduced from roughly 13 million calls to around 300k. Under W7's ACPI code, the change is further reduced.

Just wanted to clear up what the BIOS A03 release notes meant when stating:

Attached are two caps showing the before and after.

A further note regarding the 9400 - while I would love to have it enabled 24x7, I choose to disable it when on AC power. Mainly due to some primitive fear of mine concerning excess heat being generated. I remember Aikimox conducting some fairly in-depth testing into determining if it actually pumped up temps... Kudos again on those tests Aikimox! Nice work there.

 

The rare spikes you get may be caused from your system falling into a suspend or hybernation mode after being idle for that much time and the latency you observe, if that's the case, is more than normal since your laptop tries to recover from its previous state.

If the motherboard had power leaking issues you should notice them while under stress and not vice-versa.

My question remains, why do people with intel chipsets experience stuttering? Clevo, Toshiba etc etc (check the NVidia forum about that issue, you will see different chipsets but only NVidia GPUs )

LOL mine too even though I have an Asus 1101ha with an Intel GPU, but after so many months of abuse, I never had a blue screen or never had to do a hard reset. It is the most reliable computer I ever had.

I had PMed you about that issue but since it was in Greek I will translate it and make it shorter

The touch stripe has a controller underneath it which is responsible for sending signals through motherboard every time you press a button. Every signal is an interrupt with a unique code that is received by the OS and translated either in ejecting the CD or volume up/down, etc, etc. Those interrupts are handled by the OS and it takes some time for it to process it. For the controller to work we need either the BIOS to define those features or the drivers. When you boot your laptop, only the BIOS is loaded so you can't volume up or down or have a fully functioning touch stripe because they are not defined, some users even experience problems trying to eject the CD, that's because the BIOS is not that correctly implemented. When you boot to windows, BIOS seize to exist and the OS takes control of everything. If the drivers were poorly coded, they will cause conflicts within the OS kernel and you will experience them as latency. It is the time it takes for the kernel to give a solution to the conflict. If that amount of time exceeds 50k+ μs, it is long enough to be noticed by humans while listening to music for instance. but 50K are also indicative and should not be taken literally because they do not always create problems (see my netbook section). Processes run according to specific criteria and every time you press the eject button or any other button on the touch strip you ask from the OS to stop what is doing and handle your request.

To prove my point about poorly written code I told you to do an experiment. Keep the DPC latency on, press the eject button and notice the latency, now go to "computer --> DVD --> right click and press eject" notice the latency now and tell me the difference. As you can see no red spike but we have the same result. Why? Because the OS has a native way to send that "eject" request, different from that of the BIOS or the drivers.

 

No it wasnt even on hybernate or suspend because i have them disabled.

whatever the reason for the red spikes of the touch buttons (not including volume control and music buttons as those dont cause red spikes at all) its still anoying. shows system instability as you said. I am not such an expert to say if this normal or not. The technician pulled the trigger for power issues as eject button actually concentrates power to transfer to the optical drive ejected.

 

Then some process,driver or service is causing conflict while idling

 

What about the random lock-ups for those with ATIs?
I know there's a driver-related issue when the system freezes when unplugged/re-plugged from a PSU.
Any success in dealing with it?

 

So if you were to push to escalate the issue, what would be the equivalent exchange to ask for for the Dual GTX 260's? A single 4870? I understand two 4870's would work for the 280's yet there's no way to get that as a replacement for mine. This problem really has become a bother and to rid myself of the audio stutter at minimum would make me a lot happier with this -gaming computer-. I doubt they'd agree to it. I do have a warranty through SquareTrade that lasts 3 years, yet I bought the M17x through Best Buy back in August so I'm not sure what to do about it. Best buy said it's too far out of the 30 day warranty period (obviously) and that they could do nothing unless i purchased the extended warranty through them. The last tech I talked to blamed all of the issues on windows 7 and told me to wait for updates such as service pack 1 as well as the update from alienware. Should I wait or attempt to get the cards replaced? >.<

~b0nk

 

bonk, if you feel strongly about the issue, which is perfectly fine and reasonable, then contact support and then follow up with John via the Dell site. If you still are unhappy with the response then escalate it.

Remember this in your dealings... x2 GPUs = x2 GPUs. Enough said and there is no argument in the world which can be presented to tell you otherwise. "Equal to or better"... where replacements are concerned.

If you end up escalating the case via Unresolved Issues, feel free to post HERE as it would be the proper thread for escalation related issues.

 

Is it with all the drivers from ATI? even those from the DELL website?
I don't experience that kind of problem so I don't know about that. Sorry

 

yes and it decides to conflict once every 2 hours when in idle. lool

 

as for the ATIs driver and the the system freezes when unplugged/re-plugged from a PSU , the Dell driver switches to intergrated graphics when on battery but no other driver 9.12 or whatever does. if someone could use some files of the dell driver maybe to modify the 9.12 so there is not this issue?...

 

The only solution I see, is from Dell, to modify the BIOS and prevent the system with ATIs from switching to stealth mode when the integrated and hybrid are disabled on BIOS in case someone wants to operate the laptop on battery with the dedicated GPUs only.

 

I dont want to spin off on a different topic here - but very briefly, has anyone with the R1 and ATIs contacted support asking about this scenario? If so, what was the response? If this is something which needs to be examined more, one of you create a thread "M17xR1 ATI GPUs+9400M locking up on AC Disconnect" and we can get some exposure to the problem.

 

I wonder how many BIOS versions we will have to install...

 

LOL - hey bud, if you want to test properly, all of them. However with this issue, I would say just A01-A03 as A00 did not offer support for the ATI cards.

 

you got ati's for your m17x?

 

just as many as it takes to make sure our guarantee becomes outdated

 

LOL, I am more concerned if we end up to A07 or more with a time frame of 3 months between every new release average...

 

To get around the lockup problem, when disconnecting power, I just put my computer to sleep unplug the power and then resume, everything works fine if you do this. Its kind of a pain, but it works.

 

read my signature mate.i have them since previous week. by the way whats this new ATI 10.2 driver on your signature? its for M17X as well or only for desktops?

i dont think they will spend their time for so many bioses.

 

i thought you were kade storm for some reason. of course i know you have 4870's. lol.

you have to use the have disk method. it will work for you i am re-uploading it for 3series and other 4 series.

 

yes i did it. initial impressions are great for ATI 10.2 but this is for drivers section and much more testing needed

 

Don, please stop sniffing paint-thinner whilst posting; it's not good for your health, despite what the cool kids think.

Anyway, I see that a lot of people are now getting R2 replacements. I think that can be interpreted as Dellienware throwing in the towel.

 

i like paint thinner. lol.

just kidding.

yeah everyone is getting replacements except for me.

 

I would not worry about that, Don. Remember, you didn't think you'd get the ATi cards either, but then you ended up with the replacement. Annoy them enough, and they'll eventually give you the R2.

I don't know about my own position at the moment. Holding out for a sure-shot solution seems a bit pointless at this time, because Dell haven't shown me a track record of support for older laptops. The moment they vomit-up the new hot gadget in town, their attitude--normally--towards older models, grinds to a junk-pile of useless excuses and pleas for patience. I hope John B's working on something, even if it pertains to full system replacements. However, a system replacement won't be a solution for the OLD R1, which can then be deemed redundant - obsolete - history - dead - END OF LIFE!

Edit:
I'd rather have a solution to the R1, since I am still content with the system and its potential.

 

I am not interested in an R2 unless they can figure out how to get them working properly. They are amazing in CPU power but are not able to compete in 3D because of these flicker problems

I will however pair my QX9300 to some 5870s if dell will think those would fix the problem

 

Well, this is awkward but, I actually was trying to get a refund and buy a different machine in a few months, as the lack of integrated card in the R2 is one of the deal breakers for me...

 

Here's to hoping for a speedy solution.

 

Lol, BatBoy, why are you banned?

 

I was just wondering the same thing.....how often do Mods get banned? lol