580M SLI throttling Discussion Thread

No power, he is refering to OCing on the GPUs

 

Important! READ CAREFULLY!

If we are to talk to an important Dell guy, we need to be prepared well and talk coherently.

I propose the following.

1) There should be a committee of say +-4 people, so 4 of us.
2) The committee will compose a kind of manifesto (a whishlist) of what problems with the throttle we have and how, we, the community, would like to have it fixed.
3) Then, when created by the 4 people, the 'wishlist' released to the community so everybody can add his/her 2 cent -> a democratic check
4) Then, when we agree what is up (it won't be so hard, I believe), we will in the group of 4 talk to the important Dell guy about how we would like to have the problem fixed.

If our needs are defined well and they will see we are organized well, we can actually have a shot at getting what we want.

I propose the following members for the committee, based on contributions and long-term understanding of this and other problems:

(the 'throttle' group)

1. Xeneize
2. bar-code
3. myself

(the general 'check and balance' group)

4. johnksss
5. skygunner

If other members don't mind and the committee members are willing to spare their time, we could start writing what we want from Dell. I am perfectly flexible. We don't have to rush, though. The point is to get this done with care and well. If we push, we can have it ready by the end of this weekend.

 

I'm so glad I waited to do a clean install until now. I was about to when the new OSD came out, but now im going to flash the vbios first, clean install, and then install the new OSD. hopefully everything will be running flawlessly at that point!

I want to personally thank everyone who put any effort into getting this issue resolved.

I think we can continue to use this thread as a base for discussing any possible issues we might have with the new bios, as well as any new throttling issues that might occur with it.

 

Sounds like a good committee to me. I would also note that his discussion with you might not fit the parameters that you are thinking. If he solely wants to talk about the throttle issue with the 580ms, great. But he might also ask more general input questions. Not sure. It seems like they actually have enough info about the throttle to fix it as is ... so his conversation might want to be about more.

I think either way you guys are more then able to handle it ... I would simply suggest that it might go beyond the scope you are thinking and might also touch on units with other GFX cards.

For instance, if he is asking for the next stage of product dev what you would like ... or about OCing in general what are some of the issues ?

In this case I would also suggest that someone with experience with the 6990s also be present. While we are not throttled, we are Voltage limited, while I understand other OEM 6990s and 6970s are not.

Just floatin that out there. Its a great opportunity and you are dead on 0x29 it should be well organized and a committee approach sounds right

 

I agree with this organized approach. I will also suggest we all send our notes to you or whomever is taking point in this, probably best to consolidate notes.

So in short I'll write it up my experience with the throttling and what I expect as a consumer and send those notes to you, you can then post it to the general community and we can let others chip in as well. Only then we can jump on a conference call with a clear agenda:

- Issue
- What we want
- Next steps

I also suggest that 0x29A creates a new thread so that we update the initial post to keep it clean.

Thoughts?

 

Im in. This is right up my alley!

and first on this list...
start with things that can be implemented across the board. meaning to new and old customers with this unit.
and since this is a "high" end machine...yes, over clocking. (which in reality is a very very easy one) since you got the right idea with the cpu...you just need to get it with the gpu...


and last but not least...this is for Bill.
is there any way we can get on board to represent Alienware?

 

Outstanding! There is no time deadline, folks. You guys just go ahead and take all the time you need to organize. If you want to submit any questions or agenda items in advance, I'm happy to walk them over to Louis. To maybe help you with the agenda, a little background on Louis from my perspective:
When I started as a full time Dell-badged employee in consumer tech support as an L1 phone tech, he was an L3 for Dimension desktops.
He soon thereafter moved to a role in Dell product group as a gaming systems engineer.
He was on the team that launched the legendary Renegade XPS (awesome rig back in the day, and those Engadget comments are priceless).
He is now the lead graphics engineer for Alienware Mobility.

 

Bill, I'd like to know two things:

1) what is the current "throttle formula"? What conditions need to be met for the throttle to kick in? -> talking new *.06 bios
2) Why is there any kind of throttle out there at all? Why, supposedly, does m18x need GPU throttling?

 

I think I'm going to see if Dell-Chris_M will come along as well.

2 excellent questions to throw at Louis.

 

Dell-John_B will be joining us as well. The attendee list is shaping up quite nicely on both sides. I'll PM Batboy and Charles P Jefferies as well.

 

Thanks and to echo Johns comments which I completely agree, M18x is an enthusiast product, 6990 and 580M alike are as well. Alienware has always been successful in this market because of their enthusiast friendly approach, allowing Overclock on the components even allowing the aftermarket upgrades.
The sort of folks that buy these high end rigs will most likely be doing some OC, it's the nature of the beast... so I guess our point is, lets find an acceptable throttling that doesn't kill OC on the 580M (6990 don't have this issue at all).

So from my side of the fence, as long as I'm within temperature/voltage acceptable normal specs, why throttle and kill a $1200 gfx setup. When you think about it it makes sense to revise this policy.

Again, perhaps a model to follow is the Sandy Bridge Intel CPU's where throttling starts at 85c and by 110c the PC shutdown, maybe we can do a full throttle at 90c and override the load factor which is completely redundant in a high performance high end product.

With all this said Bill, I've been an Alienware customer for years now (you can check my customer file) and with all the work you are doing, you are making me a happier Dell/AW customer, this is the kind of things that drives business in today's highly competitive market. Hats off to you sir!

my 2c.

 

@Xeneize Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated, but hey, I just pump the gas, man.

 

That's ok, without that we can never go anywhere.... (I'm from NJ, we cannot pump our own gas by law haha!)

 

When I went to update my cards using the Dell update, I got some bold warning about PCI sub-system IDs not matching between my cards and the new firmware. So I chickened out. Is this normal? GPU-Z says:

GPU: 1211
Revision: A1
BIOS Version: 70.24.2B.00.04
Device ID: 10DE - 1211

So do I update them anyway?

 

Sorry, NEW version of GPU-Z says:

GPU: GF114

Rest is the same.

 

Bill, have to say I am equally impressed with this whole development, your attempts to actually consult the enthusiasts and to improve our systems while also addressing our current concerns is second to none. In fact I will be purchasing a second M18x in the next couple weeks.

I (as a professor and sometime editoral journalist) am also thinking about writing a piece on this whole process, i think it ought to be told and it exemplifies the absolute best in customer service, care, and hopefully product dev.

 

Okay, let's get organized, a new thread here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/616150-dell-580m-throttle-contact-group.html

Could a mod pin it and be kind enough to watch over the order in it? Thank you!

Xeneize, bar-code, johnksss and skygunner, how do you want to organize our work? Let's hear first why there is the throttle in the first place, accordingly to the questions asked.

 

Please at the end of your meeting, if you could tell him to take à look on the m18x R2 thread, this could be very cool.

One more time thank you very much for the great job you doing here !

 

Just flash its normal to say that no problems.

Wow a bonding session has been created (im in)

 

Thanks Bar-Code, I'm updated now!

 

just got my m18x last night and didn't get a chance to play with it until tonight but all updated and good with the new vbios!

thanks guys.

 

I like your idea Shaden. I think they should have a member of the "Red Team" attend the conference call and provide another perspective if general questions arise. Assuming his schedule will allow him to attend the call, skygunner27 is capable of doing that as his experience as an AMD-based M18x owner has been less than wonderful, just as mine has been. The quality control on the AMD products leaves a LOT to be desired and skygunner27 has unique ownership experience to draw from as an owner of multiple M18x with both AMD and NVIDIA display adapters. (He had 580M SLi in one of his systems temporarily a few months ago as well.)

The product quality of the AMD 69X0M family of video cards being used in the M18x is all over the board. Speaking from my own experience, I had cards swapped out and a system exchange and I have not even been an M18x owner for 90 days yet. I had to use a malfunctioning system roughly 6 weeks of that time due to parts availability and when the replacement items were also not functioning correctly, it was frustrating.

If our "Green Team" friends would like an example for their conference call of what should be easily achieved with 580M SLi, here is some information that shows how effective Alienware Engineering was at designing such an incredibly efficient cooling system. There should be no reason similar results cannot be achieved with a pair of properly functioning 580M video cards in any M18x. LINK

 

Ok guys, we aren't going to be tackling more that one issue on that call, I think we should take baby steps, Dell has offered a call to understand/fix Throttling issue which happens with Nvidia, I don't care who joins on the call, I do care that we start jumping all over the place, there should be a moderator and a clear agenda which is what we're working on.

The agenda is simple, we have no issues with how the card performs or with the temperature of it, we care about the throttling included for 580M, lets stick to that issue if not we aren't getting anything done.

I think the 580M users will agree with me here. Nothing against anyone or the red team for that matter, but we are the ones with the issue.

 

Information on my throttling fix here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/616264-580m-throttling-fix.html

 

It's your agenda, but I just want to stress that the engineer on the call covers all mobility GPUs for Alienware.

 

the main agenda for this call will be "nvidia 580M gpu throttling" how to completely remove it or change it so it almost matches the cpu throttling solution. (2920xm)
where it kicks in at about 93C and shut off temp is 100C to 110C. and to turn off this 100 percent throttle non sense or change it to 100 percent throttle for 20 minutes/ temps @ 95C...(meaning it has to run 100 percent for 20 minutes plus be in the 95C range for the throttle to kick in)

just throwing things out.

 

Exactly. So some of you can stop PMing me now about how they want the group to function/what other direction the group is supposed to take. (yes Shaden, this refers to you too).

The 'movement' has been created to deal with the problem of throttling Dell 580ms and this is the main focus/agenda. Let's take a single step at the time.

And now let's play some Rage.

 

This approach works. If things go well, hopefully we can have a future call for any other topics/agendas. We'll see. I'm hoping I can make this happen on a regular basis.

 

Let me just add that all the group members confirmed their willingness to help and see no problem with how the things worked so far. Excellent! Lotsa <3

 

Are you guys close to settling on a date yet? Once you know when, I'll post a call for email addresses via PM and send out calendar invites with the dial in information.

 

I am fully flexible, hence this is up to the rest of the group. The best would prolly be to say when you guys can't rather than when you can, so we can find a conses on the date easier.

 

So with the interest from Team Red, how about we start a new committee and thread for a second conference call? I'll PM Shaden and suggest he either put it together or suggest that someone else take the lead.

 

im interested in both teams.

and im flexable with the time

 

Hi!
Did you guyz check this new vBios by our friend widezu69 he removed power throttle completely now only dell needs to do is remove Temps throttle i.e throttle after it reaches 77°C+ temps ... See the post here...
[Guide] 580m GTX throtting fix. No need to modify system Bios

Hope this helps...

Regards!

 

yes thx brother, we been working with them! it's been extra helpful for us since we do not have a BIOS mod to remove it, this has been the first fix for that.

 

I think you or Steviejones133 should be apart of this, both of you have extensive experience with OC/troubleshooting. We need to hold off on a conference call until johnksss has received and had time with his M18x w/580M SLI.

 

I think that would be a wise thing to do. While waiting on John, that would give the rest of the "Green Team" time to organize the talking points.

Do you have yours yet, bro?

 

Nope today I was told 4 more days........

 

makes me wonder if ill get mine on time..probably not..

 

580M SLI must be in demand or the 580M's are on back order again. In the mean time I'm playing Riptide GP on my new 7" Nvidia Tegra 2 based tablet. Riptide GP has amazing graphics & game play for a racing title. Now all I need is my M18x with 580M SLI to use badaboom to convert my video files so I don't have to rely on MX player. I really hope our systems arive this week. This tablet is making me lazy.

UPDATE: My replacement M18x has shipped for a before 12pm delivery tomorrow. Thank you Bill for expediting my order!!!!!

 

congrats man! hope it treats you well!

 

Awesome... very excited for you, man. Looking forward to hearing more about the new machine.

 

Thanks me too I'm really feelin my new tegra 2 tablet.Tegra 2 is amazing.

Thanks, I'm so excited I can't even sleep...lol.

 

You're welcome, but I doubt my expedite request had any impact. I did my due diligence, though.

 

I received it. I swapped 2860QM(ICD24) with 2960XM and 6200 wifi with 6300 and added WirelessHD and 16GB's of 1866 ram. This machine arrived/still is perfect with no cosmetic defects. This machine had a lot of Dell software prompts that my last machine didn't have. The Nvidia software(default) makes the screen look sooooo much better than what the AMD suite does. The screen is waaay brighter and the colors are oversaturated...the way I like it.

 

mine came missing 3 screws out of the bottom cover. and the hard drive just sitting there...i haven't even looked under the keyboard yet.

 

Well the 580M are the zu, clearly superior now that I've seen what these cards can do in the right hands.

 

I figured it out. Mine came with a messed up DPI setting. Now everything's all good, I can't enable SLI on latest beta drivers....only dell drivers.

 

so no sli for you???

 

On dell drivers it works. For some reason on the beta driver I'm not seeing the option to enable SLI.