upgraded to 940xm heat issue

hi.. i bought m15x with 740qm processor in it.. as u can see my screaming all over alienware forms. i have big problems after installing 940xm. today i got my new cpu and many stuffs from dell and everything got replaced from them.. if i use 740qm it works really well am able to get abt 36 fps. but with 940xm i am getting only 12 fps.. and vents are very very hot!!!! i think thats the issue with it.. can any one please suggest me what to do?? i tried repasting... anything else?? like installing heatsink that can fix the probs like that... anything that helps me.. i bought it for $600 its an oem product!!!!! other than games it works really great!! no issues!

 

Use hwinfo64 to find out the temps you are hitting and report back. Could be a poor paste job or just a dud processor u received

 

processor cannot be dead bcoz i was using the processor for around 4 days and this problem is only with games!! otherwise the system is running real fast and very smooth.. basicaly i use visual studio and big projects in it... with 940xm all projects are loaded very fast and execution also.. only problem is with games!! may be my heatsinks and vents dont that that much capacity..

i don know how to bring hwinfo in osd mode!! any help?

 

i would repaste again and make sure you screw down that heatsink tightly, also make sure vents and the fan itself is clear of dust and blockages, what thermal paste did you use ? use coretemps to monitor the cpu temps and keep it running with loging whilst you play and report the temps back so we can help further. its deffo sounds as if the cpu is throttling due to overheating.

 

hwinfo64 is not part of the OSD, it is a program you download and install. Then launch app and make sure the sensors only box is checked and click run again. Load up a game and see what your temps peak at.

 

Firstly I think you need to be honest about when the problem started, as I am the person who sold you the 940xm I did ask you before you purchased the cpu as to why you were wanting it, your response word for word " recently i got replacement of my mobo... from that i am facing huge lag in games and getting only 11 fps... " so this issue is the same before you even had the 940xm in your hands, secondly I would like to show those interested in helping you this video which I took the day before I sent the cpu to you, the test laptop was a HP DV7-3008TX with a GT230 with 8GB or memory, not the best laptop for cooling nor the best for gpu performance, it runs perfectly fine. So i think we can all rule out it's an issue with the 940xm being a dud.

EDIT: Oh and it was $500 not $600 for the 940xm

 

Mate.. Thanks a lot for coming and giving me help... yes as he said i had the problem... but after replacing almost everything in my laptop... heatsinks, fans, gpu unit, mobo (twice), and cpu, it worked well (iwth my new 740qm cpu... as i stated previously with my new cpu 740qm it works really well... but with my another cpu which i bought from mazmorbid i have same problem... with 940xm cpu i am able to use my system.... like my normal works.. browsing.. using vs 2010 and ms sql server everything works really good... but the problem comes only when i switch to games!

@mazmorbid: yes i had same issue with my old 740qm.. after replacing everything, and with new 740qm there is no problem.but when i installed ur processor as i stated above it works well in normal environment but with gaming it really lags!

i will change my processor.. take a vid and will post it... i will start hdinfo also and record the logs. thanks...

 

Are you running the games in stealth mode or something?

 

nope. it was first thing to check!

 

So the 940xm lags the same as your original 740qm ? but some how the new 740qm is fine ? I don't get it

EDIT: So you are changing the cpu now ? I thought you had a Dell tech doing it for you ?? Man your story changes every time I blink lol

 

yes new 740qm is fine with new mobo. YES i am changing CPU. dell technician came i saw how he changed cpu and youtube vids helped me.. i took video. i will post it shortly.

 

is the video.. please see the fps continuously... how it drops... and temp of cpu goes around 71...



i added .csv from hdinfo and screenshot!

 

The video quality is too bad to see the numbers, but if it was 71C that is perfectly fine. When it goes above 90C that is hot, but CPUs won't throttle even at a bit over 90C, so I'd say the problem in not the 940XM.

 

Are you using throttlestop?

If not, try it.

 

but i am not having the problem with stock 740qm mobo... do i need to change bios? heatsink high power fans in heatsink??? etc etc?? any inputs guys!!

 

As DaCM has said 71 deg is no where near where the 940xm will start to throttle down, so I would say there is no issue with fan/heatsink, if your were running at 71 deg at idle then you would have something to seriously look at.

First thing is update your BIOS to the latest, then start from scratch, delete all your drivers and download the latest from Dell or Intel/Nvidia, do not use any drivers that you are using now (note I have had issues with the 2 latest Nvidia drivers on my laptop so give 301.42 a try first, although this could have been more of an issue the Intel HD). I would recommend a clean install of Windows 7, if you do not want to do this then un-install your chipset drivers and gpu drivers, run Driver Cleaner or Driver Sweeper which ever you prefer and then install the new drivers, chipset being the first.

 

You want to isolate and test each component independently.

Make sure you're running A09 BIOS.

If you really want to make sure to start properly, I would recommend a proper clean install.

CPU:

Download: Throttlestop, Wprime, HWmonitor (albeit Throttlestop will monitor temps too)

Install Throttlestop to make sure you're not throttling You're not really worried about overclocking at this point.

The objective is to make sure the CPU at stock is not throttling due to power consumption issues and/or temperatures

Run Wprime 1024 8 threads and report your temperatures / score along with Throttlestop results.

GPU:

Download: GPU-Z, Vantage, FurMark

Set GPU-Z to record a log file to check for any throttling

RUN Vantage first and report your score, then FurMark (which has built in temp monitoring too)

After testing each system independently and making sure temps are within norm for each component along with no throttling, then run:

CPU+GPU:

GPU-Z (Make sure to capture a log file)
Throttlestop
FurMark + Wprime 1024 simultaneously

With a 460M and a 940XM, your PSU will be pulling ~175+ watts. It is a good way to test your PSU too which is rated at 150w.

The last scenario stands a high degree of probability of producing throttling due to power consumption.

 

This is a very good point, always a good idea if you are upgrading your cpu or gpu to upgrade your power supply to a 240 watt one, something like this one.

 

thanks a lot for ur help...

just to correct u... my lap was running for around 10 hours without games.. just normal usage and it reached 75c.. i am not having same issue with my 740QM I AM NOT HAVING SAME ISSUE WITH MY NEW 740QM i am not blaming that 940xm is an issue. i am just telling that it is causing an issue... if ur trying to sell me a dead processor, u wont be replying to my emails or coming here in public and participating in my thread. its clear there is no issue, but its causing an issue with my laptop and before buying i asked u very clearly that will it support m15x or not...

i have everything that u said before screaming out here

 

i have 240 watt psu...

here are specs..

Input 100-240v (2.5A) 50~60hz
output 19.5v--7.7.A

if its not clear i will show u screenshots also... even i was thinking of same thing.. bcoz its not possible for dell to provide different sinks for different processor in same model.. then problem will surely be with supply unit (one time i had this problemw ith my desktop... )

 

Please try everything electrosoft has suggested, that is your best option right now.

 

I am pretty sure with the m17x they have different cooling configurations/pipes for lower end cpu's compared to higher end, it's possible the m15x is the same, never had an Alienware laptop so my experience there is very limited.

 

i am on it now. i will restart my pc.. give a 10 mins break and will restart.

 

Your PSU is not 240 watts. The specs you mentioned would reflect a 150 instead. My 90W PSU puts out 4.62A, so if you double that it would become a 180W and 9.24A, and we're not even up to the 240W yet, but managed to pass your 7.7A. Another example would me my 330W PSU for my M18x and that puts out a whomping 16.9A.

The 240 your reading is for the voltage which makes it world wide use...

I'm thinking it may be a power draw issue, as your also went from a 45W chip to a 55W chip...

 

yeah i do think that bcoz 940xm have no issues at all when i use visual studio 2010 and load big projects and execute them ( its a .net ide) it goes blazing fast!! thats reason y i dont want to ask a refund as there is no point in asking when the product is good.... currently doing

 

is it 3dmark vantage or pc mark vantage??

 

Those big projects are fine as it's only the CPU your loading and the GPU would be idle...gaming your going to be loading both at the same time.

 

can u please clariy what electrosoft said... is it 3dmark or pc vantage?

 

Use 3Dmark Vantage.

 

only cpu test.. attached screenshots.. running 3 applications..



only GPU test:

3dmark vantage score NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-940 Processor,Alienware score: P7296 3DMarks

gpu sensor log while doing 3dmark vantage score View attachment GPU-Z Sensor Log (only GPU Test).zip

furmark (i clicked on benchmark user setting..)




gonna post cpu + gpu shortly

 

CPU:

Your CPU temps looks fine, and even at stock settings Throttlestop improved your CPU performance by ~24%.

GPU:

I see some throttling and/or natural downclocking due to non-GPU intensive use in your log.

Your top temp of 64 is fine.

Here are your Idle/low/no load speeds:

2012-10-18 17:18:03 , 50.6 , 67.5 , 101.0 , 52.0 , 468 , 1 , 5 , 0 , 0.8300 ,

Here are your peak/expected speeds:

2012-10-18 17:18:59 , 569.5 , 625.0 , 1140.0 , 52.0 , 502 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0.9500 ,

Here is some potential throttling during your run:

2012-10-18 17:24:52 , 202.5 , 162.0 , 405.0 , 60.0 , 314 , 7 , 6 , 0 , 0.8300 ,


The only concern is that run on its own Furmark usually doesn't invoke throttling (not to say that it can't), so it may just be your P states shifting as the GPU load changes/lessens.

To make sure your GPU isn't throttling:

#1. Delete the old GPU-Z log
#1. Start Furmark (Burn-In test) in a Window.
#2. With Window open and Furmark running, start GPU-Z and start logging for 2 minutes
#3. Stop logging/exit GPU-Z
#4. Shut down Furmark

So we have a complete GPU-Z log only started/stopped with Furmark running.

For the last test of CPU+GPU, do the same thing but throw Wprime 1024 in there and have Throttlestop log the CPU performance too.

My guess is, at this point, it is your GPU throttling during gaming due to CPU+GPU, but to be absolutely sure, a clean install rules out any OS level issues or bugs and really isolates it further to the tests recommended above.

I know with a 260M (similar power draw to a 460M), and a 920XM we early owners in 2009 were throttling left and right and had a thread going about it and a work around was created (before the BIOS updates helped so make sure you're running A09). With the work around, I was pulling 190w+ under max load (Prime95 + Furmark), so you could also order a 240w PSU. It won't help nor supply your M15x with more power, but it will rule out the PSU as a potential problem along with your PSU running much cooler under load

If you really want to lower your power draw envelope and really push the 940xm for all it is worth along with realizing similar 460M level performance, a 5850M is the way to go if the GPU+XM CPU combo ends up
being too much for your system.

 

I have did a clean install before these tests..

i ran furmark burn test and for around 10 mins and it went upto 78.. till 64 it raised quickly and it slowly increased one by one..

I have latest bios.. A09. I think it is due to 150watt adapter. i have no idea about 5850m and i really hate ati.. thats y i went with gtx 460m.. even in my desk i have 9800gtx and i had normal smps.. performance was very low.. then i bought 650 watts smps from coolermaster and it really helped.. getting 240w psu in big pain in a** (here in india) but if its the solution then i have to get it from us or uk and wait for 10-15 days for it..

now exactly what i have to do??

running furmark burn test + log with gpuz and do i need to turn on throttle stop or not?

 

In the log file attached for GPU-Z the max temp shown is 64.

Yes, run Furmark + Wprime1024 simultaneously while using Throttlestop (turn it on) and GPU-Z logging features to create log files for both so we can see
during the entire run what throttles and where when both the GPU and CPU are stressed.

 

give me 5 mins. i will start logging with gpu z.. start logging. then start burn test and simultaneously prime with 8 threads and 1024. and throttle on.. i can see the log file option but don know where it will save

 

View attachment cpu+ GPU gpuz and throttle stop logs (burn with th on).zip


throttle on with turbo mode.prime 1024 with 8 threads and burn test!... burn test lagged very much!!

 

Yep, your GPU is throttling. When you see those patches of it downclocking from:

2012-10-19 01:31:32 , 569.5 , 625.0 , 1140.0 , 56.0 , 229 , 76 , 19 , 0 , 0.9500 ,

To:

2012-10-19 01:32:41 , 202.5 , 162.0 , 405.0 , 54.0 , 254 , 99 , 54 , 0 , 0.8300 ,

That is your system exceeding its power envelope and the system responding in kind. That is why your CPU only tasks run fine and your GPU only tasks for the most part are fine.

Here is an old video I posted of my M15x drawing ~193w with a 940xm and a 260m (same 75w rating as your 460m) running on the A08 BIOS (A09 is the most recent): Alienware M15x i7 drawing 190+ watts under heavy load - YouTube

The scenario I presented was the most extreme (Prime95 8-thread max + Furmark), so your scenarios would draw probably around 170w+

There is a very (very) slight chance it is your PSU as the culprit. As noted before, you can order a 240w PSU relatively cheap now and while it won't provide your
system with more power (the power envelope is fixed on a hardware level with your system @ 150w even with A09), it will give you headroom for when your
GPU+CPU are being taxed, run much cooler and remove it as a potential issue now or down the road. I know when I switched to a 240w PSU on my M15x, it
ran cool to the touch no matter what I was running versus the 150w PSU which got rather toasty playing WoW.

SOLUTIONS:

#1.

You can use throttlestop to stop CPU throttling and rivatuner to stop GPU throttling.

To fix your problem visit this thread: Alienware M15x With nVidia 260M Throttling Investigation and Solution

This was the original thread created by 5150Joker we all participated in back in 2009 here when the M15x was all shiny and new, but it has since moved to techinferno.

With the RivaTuner/Throttlestop fixes, your PSU can and will get warm under GPU+CPU load scenarios and will routinely exceed it's rating of 150w.

One fun thing we did at the time was run the FFXI benchmark app because it had an active graphing agent that would show your system performance while it ran.
With the nvidia cards throttling, you will see the graph dip up and down as your GPU would throttle. Once we ran RivaTuner/Throttlestop, the line flattened out as it should
have with a properly behaving GPU.


#2.

Switch from the 460M to a 5850M. Instant problem fix

#3.

Return to using your 740qm CPU, as the extra 10w+ draw seems to potentially be pushing you over the edge, albeit users with quad cores + nvidia cards have been having throttling issues
for years now regardless of the quad core CPU. The XM just makes it that much more suspect to failure. This will stem the flow, but you will still most likely experience situational throttling.

I hope this helps.

 

Great advice there mate :thumbsup:

How about a 2GB 7970M ? How would that go for power draw in his system with the 940XM ? I have seen people put them in the m15x ?? I have one here I could sell him at a reasonable price, that's if he can get over his hate for ATI lol ..

 

if i buy a new psu of 240watt will it resolve problem?? as u said that its fixed on hardware level and gives additional watt when needed, can it supply during those clocking time?? i have spent $600 and really dont prefer option 3

 

GeForce GTX 460 (OEM) vs Radeon HD 7970 – Performance Comparison Benchmarks @ Hardware Compare shows that it needs more watts... but my system is locked with 150 watts in hardware level as electrosoft mentioned!

 

That's for desktop GPU's lol .. but I should imagine they would be similar just on a lower power draw.

 

ooops.. seriously i am looking for some workarounds mate. i am waiting for electrosofts reply... if psu fixes problem i will get it immediately. i cant afford more money now man already $600 + hampering of my projects for around 5-6 days too much loss man.

 

3. Finally, go to the Main tab, under the driver settings, click the half arrow next to "customize", click on "system settings", go to the overclocking tab, enable driver level overclocking, set it to performance 3D and set your default GPU clocks. Towards the bottom, you will see, "force constant performance level", set that to performance 3D as well and click apply.


i am not able to see this option in riva tuner... any help?

 

First thing I would do to confirm the issue is follow the steps for #1 which is a software solution of Throttlestop + RivaTuner. Follow the instructions as outlined and see if that fixes your problem

Assuming it does, you will notice your PSU can and will get toasty now that your system is no longer being throttled. It will also show if your PSU is suspect, but I don't think it is (but you never know!).

If your PSU is failing/faulty or not up to the task of holding down the required power draw, you will know when your system still throttles or the PSU shuts down. You will notice it getting rather warm.

As for the 7970M, many users have experienced success with it, but that is really pushing the M15x.

6970M/6990M here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...u-need-know-upgrading-problems-solutions.html

7970M here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m15x/658295-7970m-m15x-why-yes.html

To me, personally, the optimal pairing both power consumptive wise and heat/noise is the 5850M, but if you want the best performance, the 69XX and 79XX are very compelling, especially @ 1920x1080.

 

riva tuner doesnt support latest nvidia drivers.. so i just used after burner and able to pull fps upto 23.. and its not playable. i turned throttle on and set multipler to 15 (just to keep stuffs under control) and checked the both options modulation and clock mod... then after burner with default config.. 570mhx and 1250 mhz. it worked but was barely playable. (but still it is.. its like playing with low end graphic card)

i din check heat of power brick.. i am checking and let u know.. so u think my psu is problem??

 

You're not using Riva Tuner for overclocking but to lock in the appropriate state so it doesn't throttle and effectively overrides the hardware's reaction to a higher power envelope. I am not sure if MSI AfterBurner achieves the same desired functionality to prevent throttling. I'll have to check.

Capture a GPU-Z log with afterburner running to see if it addresses the throttling situation at all.

If I had to guess, I would say the PSU is not the problem. There is a chance it IS the problem, but it still looks like the classic Nvidia+Quad Core = Throttling issue, but you never know. It is a good investment for a cooler running
PSU and removes the PSU as a potential issue from the equation.

 

it automatically underclocks to 203 mhz and 405 mhz suddenly no idea!! riva tuner is not compatible with my drivers!! for psu i cant get it in india.. and to get from outside it will cost me around $190.... if thats the solution i would get it

 

190 ??? There is one on eBay from here in Australia for $69, shipping shouldn't cost that much.

 

Every time your system exceeds the designated power threshold, it will throttle the GPU, CPU or both if instructed to even if the system doesn't need to. This is the most likely culprit.
The chance it is your PSU is remote but can not be completely ruled out (while it is possible, it is improbable). You COULD try a new PSU, but I am almost 100% sure it is not the problem at this juncture.

The CPU throttling can be addressed with Throttlestop (and then you can use Throttlestop to really get your 940XM performing at 3ghz+ speeds), but if the newest Nvidia drivers are not compatible with Rivatuner (specifically the need to force a peak powerstate for performance), then you are effectively stuck at this point unless there is another GPU utility to mimic the required functionality of Rivaturner.

If you go back to the 740qm, it will help alleviate the throttling issues. (45w)

If you switch to a dual core (640M, 620M, etc...) it will alleviate all throttling issues (35w)

Alternatively, you could go with a 5850M which will do the same thing since ATI cards do not suffer as much from throttling issues and the 5850M is a ~40w card versus 75w for Nvidia for similar performance and you can run the 5850M + 940XM together no problem with no software hack and overclock your CPU.

 

what about performance of 5850m? i heard gtx 460m is good and really better when compared to 5850m thats y i don want to change??? is there any kind of solution otherthan changing gpu or cpu???? i want high graphics in my system and thats the point of buying alienware

 

Both the 460m and 5850m are close in performance. I have the latter, and believe me when i say this, that it is still no slouch. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the 5850m would outperform the 460m and the 5850m also overclocks a lot further. I've never had any throttling issues with it. I saw one for sale on australian ebay site for like 80-90 bucks (not sure if its still currently listed).