GDDR5 = GDDR3 4870 CrossFireX confusion...any contact from Dell regarding this?

Yes thanks John! Better than totally ignoring or claiming ignorance. Identifying the issue and addressing it helps people feel like they haven't been cheated. Removing it from people's invoice without communicating it with them was just the wrong thing to do. Thanks for at least coming out with an official statement acknowledging the issue.

 

nagshead said (and everyone accused him of being a Dell Rep):

Now JohnBatDell says:

And the Dell/Alienware official line on this is:

Hmmmmmmmmm, perhaps nagshead did have some insider info!

LOL!

 

This is definitely a card with GDDR3, *not* GDDR5, there are no plans to offer GDDR5 on this card, and the mistake on the website showing this as a GDDR5 card has been corrected. <----told you guys

thanks for the info johnbatdell!

 

100% Agreed!

I think it is great that a Dell representative finally steps forward with an official explanation, but in my experience with this issue, I am glad I opted to cancel my order. To me, this just re-affirms waiting on a customizible ATI X-Fired i7 solution.

 

This sucks guys, obviously GDDR3 4870s are still good, but the performance difference with using GDDR5 would have been phenomenal.

I do know that my 4870, not being the same card the mobile one would be, gets very hot while idling, an extremely powerful cooling system, which wouldn't be easy to do even in a notebook of this size, would be needed to make even the mobile versions be cool.

 

def gonna have to wait now...
i7 /sli or xfire

 

JohnBatDell,

The link you provided states the following:

Can you PLEASE comment more on the " specific design constraints associated with notebooks and the 4870"...... or perhaps look into this a bit further for us?

Thanks!

 

a better overall experience huh?
rotflma!
as much as people debated on why gddr5 was far superior to gddr3 @ gaming....and now they say no?
wow!
buz kill there.....

 

LOL!

We need to know those " specific design contraints"!

 

indeed!
10 char

 

Yeah, "specific design constraints associated with notebooks and the 4870"...... I can't help but wonder if this will provide clues, to the troubles faced with the Asus W90.

 

Lol what a mess..

I think personally i would have rather heard nothing then to hear that DDR3 provides an overall better experience... What does that even mean ?????... If things are said like that then they need to be backed up with some explanation ........

 

Agreed!

Explanation?

LOL, I tried! Waiting on a reply from JohnBatDell!

 

Haha dont hold your breath my friend.... You will be dead waiting for it im afraid...

If he had that info he would have posted it im certain... What he said is all we are going to get ill bet you...

 

While we can't divulge complete design specifics for obvious reasons, what I can say is this:

The card as sold gets very warm. Swap out the GDDR3 for GDDR5, and not only do you increase power consumption, you increase heat production, and the cooling solution on the machine, although phenomenal, wouldn't really be able to keep up.

As I'm sure you all know, heat is the mortal enemy of computer performance...

It was tested with both, as we're all gaming enthusiasts, and wanted to see if GDDR5 was viable. It was determined that it wasn't.

/me sighs about the laws of physics...

 

LOL!

I already PM'ed John(ksss) saying essentially the same thing. History says; no replies, with REAL answers, LOL!

BUT, let try to be optimistic, and give JohnBatDell a crack at being the exception to the rule.



EDIT: HOLD THE PHONE! JohnBatDell replied while I was writing this post, LOL!

 

Well if thats the case of DDR5 in notebooks then the future does not bode well for whats coming down the pipe...

From the sound of it GDDR5 is not a viable solution in notebooks even with the awesome cooling the M17x provides...


And people are waiting for Mobile 5870s etc ... Are those going to be crippled with DDR3 as well ??... Of course die shrinks will happen to lower power consumption but were not even close to what would be needed to have one shoved into a notebook coupled with DDR5..

 

let me ask this...

is that the OLD gddr5 memory chips or is that with the NEW gddr5 chips manufactured by samsung? which is said to be cooler/faster/and of course...a reliable source of memory..or would this be ....wishful thinking...
edit:
told you striker. just had to wait a few minutes longer...lol

 

Well i appreciate JohnBatDell chiming back in to try and answer these questions but sadly those are not the answers were looking for ? or what we wanted to hear might be a better term to use..

 

Thanks JohnBatDell!

(Hmmmmm..... time to review my GDDR5 tech'y pages, AGAIN!)

 

While taking the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie:

Engineering is a constant see-saw between problems and solutions. What isn't possible today could well be possible tomorrow.

But yeah... the cooling solution in the M17x is amazing... and it wasn't enough to make GDDR5 viable on this card. :-(

 

exactly quad. no one really wanted to hear that news....

wonder if they would have worked in a d901 series...since the heatsink is made way differently than the 4870

 

Well JohnBatDell since we have you on the line for a few minutes can we ask you what plans Dell/Alienware might have coming down the pipe ? IE i7 M17x or more GPU upgrades for the current M17x ? .. I know its alot to ask but....

 

Yep, and again, I am waiting on my core i7 ATI X-Fired solution, LOL!

 

LOL!

I like my job, thank you very much

Edit:

You do realize that whenever something is being sold, the next great thing is in development, right?

I use the M17x myself... I'm glad to have it.

 

Well i had to try but i do understand ..

 

Well maybe you could answer this question since you have an M17x of your very own..

The screen has a very annoying auto contrasting/dimming feature that you cannot disable at all. Do you know if its something they will ever address or maybe have plans for new screens coming etc.. Currently Samsung is the only panel manufacture for the M17x and in the past with the XPS systems it was usually 3 or 4 companys who would handle the load .. Any rhyme or reason they are just sticking with Samsung ?.

 

Woooooo, a clue......in developement! LOL!

Sure, you like your job, but how long do I have to wait for an i7 ATI X-Fired HD 58XX solution? Hint, clue, anything?

 

Hmmm design constraints.....more so than heat could it maybe be cost? GDDR5 is supposed to be cooler than GDDR3 but is also much more scarce right now

 

My best guess based on the info we just received today is A LONG TIME ..

 

this is a pretty good answer in it's own....

forget about a gpu upgrade. you will need to buy a new machine.

is about what im getting out of all this..

 

No, the information I saw was pretty clear that higher power consumption and its associated heat was the source of the constraints.

I can't really comment on what is "supposed" to happen.

 

Yes but apparently Clevo will be supporting the new Nvidia GPUs in there current i7 mobile line up ?..

Wonder if these will still all be based on G92 Core with just the DX10.1 upgrades or will they be the all new architecture that everyone has been waiting for ?..

With DDR5 causing so many issues im not so certain anymore about the future of mobile GPUs and how far they can go without massive die shrinks... Those dont come fast nor cheap either..

 

Sure, sure, sure..... but I was told by Dell, both verbally, and in writing..... that my M17x would have ATI 4870 X-Fired w/GDDR5. My very purchase was predicated by this. In any event, I cancelled, and it turns out the cards had GDDR3 onboard. BIG disappointment, and now I'd rather wait on the next 'best thing'.

Somehow, I do not think it will be TOOoooo far off........

 

For what your looking for i would say no sooner then Xmas of next year but more then likely feb march is probably a better guess .. So like 2011 not 2010...

 

We shall see, Quad! BTW, what am I looking for?

 

Mobile i7 with Xfire 58xx cards....

The 58xx cards will not use DDR3 you can bet your rear on that one and there for lots of things that need to fall into place for all that to work together...

Massive shrinks on all that tech is the main thing.. And guess what ? thats gonna take atleast another 12 months....

The power requirements for that tech in a mobile platform would be absurd with the way they are currently...

 

UPDATE: Received a 2nd call from Dell Consumer Resolution Center regarding my purchase of the GDDR5 cards. As stated in this forum by JohnBat, GDDR5 cards not available.

- Initially offered a $50 coupon for a future dell.com purchae. Turned that down
- Discussed that I would have purchased the dual 280s had I known... would have saved $100 onthe purchase
- I suggested a $150 refund

- In the end, I accepted a split $100 coupon to purchase off of the dell.com. Since I want one of the new Alienware backpacks, this seems to work for me. (yes, I know they're cheaper on e-bay)

Not necessarily the 'best' solution. But, in the end, I'm pretty pleased with the laptop and don't really want to reconfigure it as it works quite well.

In the end, it took an e-mail to Michael Dell to get any movement on this issue. Polite e-mail with the day,time, action, etc. I'm sure was key to this.

 

As with every product cycle, the next product cycle is just around the corner. My experience with laptop product cycles has shown me that when one product is "cutting edge" in laptops, the next "cutting edge" development in laptops is hinted by the current desktop product cycle.

It just naturally follows that when that "next big thing" in laptops hits the market, you'll be salivating over the latest in desktop technology and waiting for it to appear in laptop form...

Me? I'm happy with the M17x. I triple window client EVE-Online and play AION at the same time with little framerate reduction, everything cranked to the max. I just don't see a problem with that

 

Nope, I inquired when we could expect to see that (and no specific response), but an i7 M17x refresh (or the like) would suffice for now..... and this, I do not see that far off. Everything I have seen of Dell is highly competitive, and of course, they have to be...... so it only stands to reason, they will do the same with the i7, and I think that will be sooner, than later.

As far as the 58xx cards, everything I have been reading tends to point sooner than your projections, but who knows really?

We Shall See!

I totally understand, and agree with you John..... but could you guys please rush an i7 M17x refresh (or the like)? Just gimme my i7..... LOL!

 

SOooooo, nagshead (Alienware Quality Engineer) DID have some insider info, LOL! I just wish we could have been in on that little secret, sooner.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5488546&postcount=14

 

Still think he's talking out his backside. Theres no reason not to implement gddr5 on the ati cards other than price. Been proven time and again that alienwares so called "quality" care reps are probably just an average jo on the assembly line. They show up here on the forums than slither off when people start asking the hard questions.

 

Speaking of price. No one has come out and said why the ATIs cost more than the nVidia cards. History tells us nVidia is more expensive.

 

YES, I would like to know the answer to this too. Now that we know they are GDDR3, seems like there should be a significant price adjustment.

 

So, first off, forgive me for not identifying myself sooner. I did (and still) have no good way to validate my identity on this forum, but John can vouch for me I am a quality engineer with many years experience here in Austin.

Like any tech company, we have NDA's or non disclosure agreements with our suppliers. We cannot share technical details without their consent. Everything John mentioned is true - we tested GDDR5. It wasn't pretty. That's all we can share.

The point for coming to this thread was to help clear up the confusion on the error that was made. It's an unfortunate distraction for what is an awesome card on a notebook that has won many awards.

 

nagshead,

I for one, am appreciative you have come forward with this. It now lends a more 'honest' feel to the atmosphere. I think most here can understand the limitations and restrictions brought on by NDA's. It is just very difficult when the hard questions go unanswered.

I DO hope you and John will continue to participate in these forums, and assist us in which ways you can. I feel your contributions here, can be invaluble to all.

Thank you!

 

Everyone was quick to jump on you with " you have no clue what your talking about " well i guess you do and more so then anyone on these boards ..

Thanks for the info Nags .. Always nice to hear stuff from the horses mouth so to speak..

 

Appreciate the info Nagshead.

 

Thanks nagshead! I knew it all along. LINK

 

hey, i made that call as well mandrake.lol

so...it's just like the whitebook (putting 4870's in)..so to speak... to much heat for the heatsink they chose to use(pretty accurate speculations)...

still wonder if it would have worked using the 280m's heat sink design & the newer g5 chips....
any clues to this nagshead?