September possible new Alienware launch

Hey true that. I got a 2 liter 250hp Jspec S2000...its fun and I wouldn't trade it for the world but screw all torque - as they say "ain't no replacement for displacement".

 

I always said this in the past but recently found out it is not the case. For example my stock running 6700HQ cpu smokes a 2500K & 2700K overclocked to 5Ghz on water when it comes to floating point performance. Same goes for the Ivy bridge that followed.

 

Wow, That is quite a few generation back. Gen 2's vs gen 6's?

 

You are true BGA horsepower owner mate. Comparing second generation to sixth lol

 

True but the desktop i5-2500K is a very capable CPU that can keep up with modern desktop hardware with enough of an overclock, when it comes to gaming

 

Maybe so. Most games have pretty forgiving minimum system requirements, especially for the CPU. Most games will work fine with a very old and weak CPU and no more than 3.0GHz.

 

**Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 Owner's Lounge!**
courtesy @Phoenix > read it n' weep ... 1080SLI

awesome

__________________
oopsie, is this a new Alien Product Launch thread?
New Alienware Aurora R5 reboots under load​

" Generally the crashes & reboots happen when running games or graphical benchmarks (e.g. 3D Mark)."

low-powa 1080 FE just a lil too much for the latest n' greatest (?)

awp
Aurora R5 Upgradeable? ...not so much.​

"I just got the R5 & I want to use the 2.5 ssd from my old computer. The power cables are there for 2 such drives, but the smaller sata data cables are not there."

Aurora R5 missing SATA wires?​

"Opened her all the way up, still no plug. With places for 2 SSD's, I should be able to find one of them?? Are the cables not supplied?"

Looks like ol' Frank found another way to save two nickels
_______________
#FireFrankAzor​

 

they must be the standerd size mxm cards then, as you couldn't of fitted in two of those large 980 desktop cards + the cooling,

 

To be fair, why are we comparing DTR / Desktop components to Mobile gaming laptops / parts?

Bga is one thing, yea we'd all like a socketed board, but it's a bit out of range to be comparing two things in different weight divisions don't you think?

A more realistic comparison would be actual gaming desktops to DTR's if you want to talk about pound for pound.

Parts are parts and the method in which they are applied is a completely different thing. Smash bga all you want, whatever but to start putting the components in the same ring is a bit SMH.

MSI could knock out AW in taking this home with offering a socketed board. It's like AW is in a daze from a nice upper cut. Wide open opportunity...that goes to say for other manufacturers as well, but who knows...

What @rinneh is pointing out is that just because it's a mobile based cpu, doesn't mean that it's
Inferior to all desktop cpu's in every category. Generations of the cpu is irrelevant as there are older gen cpu's that do a fine job and very powerful. Take what they use in OC competitions for example.

I love car analogies as well:

True, there's no replacement for displacement if you're trying to pull a boat, however, displacement does not determine the speed.

We also have to factor in power to weight ratio. It's not all about just having big hp or tq numbers. There needs to be a balance and even then, you have to make sure all that power can even be put to the ground. (Minimize wheel slippage) or it's just a waste of ponies.

ie ... that wheel slippage for us is heat and thermal issues.

Therefore, a DTR (which I'm all for) is like cramming a LS2 big block into a compact car vs a 4cyl. Turbo into the same compact car.

If you can control the rubber hitting the road (slicks) and minimize wheel slippage, you'll be golden for either scenario.

Then there's practicality and purpose. A dtr is not a practical machine for portability compared to a thinner bga device.

Not everyone needs or prefers to drive around a gutted track car as their daily driver or to always have to have 1000hp and torque always on tap.

The mobile Skylakes found in the AW are no slouches for the class they are in. Keyword: Mobile.

Take the 6820HK for example. It's a "Mobile" chip that can hang with its desktop counterpart. The margin is small. Give credit where it's due. Chip for chip, pound for pound, anytime something in a lighter weight division can hold its own, that's a good thing.

So now...honest question:

Don't you think it's more practical to be comparing a desktop vs dtr, since many of you are focusing on the power instead of practicality/function and form?

To me it's just silly to be wasting energy on comparing two chaps from different weight divisions and feeling all puffy about the obvious. That's called ego polishing that's constantly needing to get petted.

So to stay in topic if...a big IF AW, MSI, Asus etc...comes out with a dtr variant, which would you likely go with? A bit subjective I know, but just curious.

Also, CPU upgrades once you're at the 6700K level on a dtr is minimal wouldn't you say? Do any of you have the need to upgrade your 6700K? If so, for what purpose?

Even with my 6820HK and redering HD content for work, I never once sat there thinking, gosh I need a faster CPU. This is why I'm curious what some of you do that may require a CPU upgrade in respect to real world differences that well...would actually make a difference, whether it be rendering time etc...








Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

Forgot to add, "A mobile chip vs a desktop chip."

That's the point being made I think. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Also, there's nothing wrong with older gen desktop chips. I still like the 4790K a lot...it's a classic beast.

Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

@iunlock - to be fair, this is not a thread reserved only for discussion and focus on BGA/thin and light notebooks. I think we should compare all of them. If the desktop parts fit in a laptop and it works like it is supposed to, it's still a laptop. The desktop CPUs are only being used because Intel crapped out on us and left us stranded with low-TDP BGA and no such thing as a socketed mobile Extreme CPU with unlimited TDP. I've got overclocked benchmarks with 3920XM and 4930MX laptops that rival overclocked 4790K performance.

 

Fair enough. However, I'm just emphasizing that it's getting a bit *rolling eyes* when the obvious is getting beat to the ground over and over again regarding a desktop chip > mobile chip, generally. It's obvious and we all know that.

Also, a DTR is in a different class than a Gaming laptop. Two different categories. A truck and a car are both vehicles, but they are not of the same. Therefore to compare the two would not be a practical or realistic comparison.

We can agree to disagree. That's okay


Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

By the way, speaking of CPU'S and power and everything else lol...

@Mr. Fox, I'm getting some pretty hefty Voltage numbers on my Cores when OC'ed at 4.0x with no OV applied. (1.339V) This is all stock. Just a simple OC via BIOS...(240W PSU) I wouldn't want to fry my bga now would I? j/k

It just seems a bit high...



Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

As long at the temps are OK it probably won't hurt anything. But, that does seem high for only 4.0GHz. I use similar voltage for 4.7GHz. But, I should ask if that idle or load voltage? Skylake has high voltage at idle and goes down under load. My 6700K does that even with static voltage. I think it is designed that way. My 6700K idle voltage at 4.7GHz is more like 1.400V and it goes down to like 1.325V under load.

 

The 1.339V is under load. As far as the temps they are very good. CPU stays in the mid 60's and GPU at 58C Max when gaming and 61C when benching.

Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

Well, in that case I would not lose any sleep over the 1.339V. Should be fine with those low temps.

 

I'm sorry guys but this Alienware veteran is too lazy to read 22 pages. Is there hope for Alienware, yet?

 

Depends what you mean by that. If you're hoping for a big beast with a socketed CPU and MXM, we've got no information to suggest anything of the sort. All speculation and wish lists at this point.

 

Oh for sure Also, another curiosity of mine with the battery...

Since my last repaste, I forgot to plug in my battery cable so I've just left it unplugged because...

This particular R3 (I have two) remains at my desk 99% of the time, is plugged into my UPS battery back up / surge protector and because I had figured that I may doing the batteries a favor by leaving them unplugged?

It is to my understanding that batteries are best stored with ~50-60% full, hence why when we buy phones for example they are always about half full etc...

Should I plug them back in? Or just leave it be?

I guess it boils down to:

Risk of the cable accidently getting pulled out of the computer (very unlikely on my desk) and possibly jeopardizing data VS accelerated aging of the
battery?

Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

In that case, I expect nothing less than disappointment from Delienware, again. <Sigh>

 

There's a desktop charging mode built into the system. Right click your battery icon and you will see it. It will charge your battery up to around 75% and leave it there. If your battery is at 100% then it will perform a discharge down to 75% and remain so.

 

These prices are obtained on the same setup, but in the Netherlands. Aw 17R3 cost € 2,953.78
And Aw 15R2 costs € 2.603,79 even with the more crippled 6700Hq!!
Maybe you and I can get a better price from DELLIENWARE... But so Can I also on Multicom SHOP!!! I know becouse I have used Multicom several times.... THIS IS APPLE to APPLE COMPARISON @rinneh !!! AW IS A MORE COSTY MACHINE IF I OR ANY OTHER here at home WANTED TO BUY!!
You say you would not paid more than € 2,000 for a laptop!! There is not much gaming laptop with thise not so high specifications... For what you are willing to pay bro!! And with pascal? NO NO NO!!

Dell Netherland. AW 17R3 ~ 6820Hk, 980M, 1TB Hdd, 2x8GB Ram, 512GB ssd and 2 years warranty!! Not maxed!!
AW 15R2 ~ 6700Hq, 980M, 1TB Hdd, 2x8GB Ram, 512GB ssd and 2 years warranty!! Not maxed!!
http://ecomm.euro.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?c=nl&l=nl&s=dhs&cs=nldhs1


Clevo P870 at home with exactly the same setup as AW machines and same 2 years warranty costs € 2385.60 or 22995 NOK http://www.multicom.no/multicom-kunshan-p870-killer-edition-173/cat-p/c/p10632048

6700K, Gtx980 DT, 2x8GB ram, 1TB Hdd, 2x8GB Ram, 512GB ssd and 2 years warranty!! Not maxed!!


http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...alienware-launch.794388/page-16#post-10306435

 

I'm not sure. I have never used any of the special charging features or taken my batteries out. I've never been OCD about that on any of my computers. I figure if the battery wears out I will either not care or just buy a new one. I always let them charge to 100% and leave them that way all the time. My M18xR2 battery was three years old when I sold it and it still ran for 5+ hours on a full charge with IGFX and lights turned off and my M18xR1 battery was 4 years old and ran for like 4.5 hours on a full charge.

 

Indeed, which I do/did use, but I was just curious about leaving it unplugged. I guess it's just one of those things eh? In the near future I'll likely hand this down to a family member, so for what it's worth I was thinking of the best way to preserve the battery.

Very well. I do have to remind myself of this and just think of one of my older MBP's that still last a very long time on battery after all these years.

I'm just being a bit OCD...okay I am

Plugging it back in...

 

The battery in my AW17 purchased early 2013 have battery wear level of 0.1 % (Hwinfo64). Of course the battery is ok... This AW model haven't Hybrid bios who kill the battery as all should know after the famos 180w psu Gate!!

And haven't fry my motherboard components because of my use of 330w psu duo benching as the new models will be.

 

Same goes comparing the desktop 2500k or 2600k with a 4th gen mobile BGA. Or a desktop Ivy bridge with a 4th or 6th gen CPU.

It is just something that a lot of users and me also stated in the past. That Intel didnt show enough progression the past years. Which is true to some extend but the FPU performance did change a lot, so much that a 5Ghz running 2700K cannot compete with a Haswell or Skylake mobile CPU.

And this is even with a fairly extreme overclock at 5ghz. At stock the desktop SB and IB gets smoked compared to a low power haswell and skylale mobile cpu when it comes to floating point operations

Its enough but it is a bottleneck as well. There are some benchmarks around that show a 10 to 20 fps and especially minimum fps gains on a 970GTX running on a skylake CPU compared to a SB and IB cpu.

Ok lets compare Apple to apples from my perspective.

If I would buy the minimum specced P870 (no double SSD's etc and 16GB ram) in the Netherlands from the cheapest Dutch dealer stocking those without upgrades except for the 970M to 980 upgrade which comes with a 4K panel automatically it costs 3305 euro. A desktop system with more performance costs sub 1200 euro including a screen. See attached picture for details. The shop you pointed out has indeed a low price in Euro's but that is due to the exchange rate. If you take a look at the German XMG site the prices are also higher for a similar system without any upgrades, so no SSD's etc. See pictures for proof. Both with 2 years carry in.

While a 17 inch alienware with the HK CPU comes for 2149 euro with 1y NBD support and 2 years carry in (Which is mandatory in the netherlands for all PC's sold).

For all 3 laptops you can add about 400 euro if you want to upgrade the SSD's and memory. Because buying them from Dell or BTO directly is more pricey than a component shop such as you used yourself.

So no Alienware is not more costly. Even the cheapest variant of your laptop with a dual 970M in slide costs 2200+ euro and comes with an core i5.

WIth the ALienware you get portability, with the P870 you can upgradability at the cost of portability since even a normal backpack cant carry it.

For the price that you paid I have 1 good Alienware configuration for on the road and 1 very well tricked out PC with a Geforce 1080, true enthusiast 6core CPU in a very small Ncase chassis (smaller than an AGA by the way). This is the reason why I buy what I buy. In the end the amount of money you spend for a laptop it becomes TOO big for me to carry around everyday AND it does not perform up to the level I want to be it for the price I paid.

I am actually building such a system now. Small enough to put in my cabin suitcase for when I travel for many months away from home and spend at my girlfriends house in Japan.

Ncase chassis https://www.ncases.com/
Core I7 6700K
Geforce 1080
16gb of ram,
1x 512TB ssd
1x 4tb hdd

Will cost me 1200 euro.

 

Only the 2600K and 2700K have HT enabled
The 2500K is a quadcore without HT

Haswell has AVX2 whereas the Sandy/Ivy don't and so Haswell can get better than 1.2x in non gaming scenarios. AVX2 uses more power than 100% gaming load.

In gaming performance, a highly clocked Sandy/Ivy with HT can still manage to perform as good as a lower clocked Skylake processor with HT.

You can pick up a Acer 17x for 2.8k and likely that price for the 17x V2 with the 1080 ( it's likely they only shipped out a few like Aorus did and used the same layout for their V2 edition ). No other reason to release in June only for the next gen to come out in 3 months. Plus internal 1080 won't lose performance due to the direct connection between the motherboard and graphics.

 

It cant and benchmarks showed it. I named the 2500K and 2700K both specifically. Both with a hefty overclock still under perform now for their clockspeeds compared to modern CPU's.

Differences between the CPU's at stock


With overclock


It depends the game and how much it relies on the CPU but YOu do lose some frames nowadays with an old CPU and modern GPU.

Hypierthreading is nothing for gaming by the way.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...rks-core-i7-6700k-hyperthreading-test.219417/

 

That has a higher stock clock compared to the older one, but they can both OC to the same frequency, just the IPC is higher on the newer one = higher performance.

Aren't you referring to higher clocked older processor vs a newer and lower clocked processor ( HQ/HK ). I mean, why compare the newer one at higher clocks vs the older one at equal or lower clocks? The former will obviously beat the latter in that comparison. The 6700K at 4.0ghz will beat a 2600K at 3.5ghz. It's also got +30% IPC and higher clocked. Even at 4.4ghz vs 4.4ghz in cpu bound scenarios it will beat it.

5.0ghz is kinda high even for the 2920XM (HT/8MB cache) on air cooling/laptop heatsink.

Something like the 2920XM at 4.6ghz vs the 6920HQ ( 3.4ghz max in quadcore mode ) and both have HT and 8MB cache
3.4x1.3 is almost like the 2920XM at 4.42ghz and sure it should match or possibly beat it if the 6920HQ is paired up with faster ram.

 

The differences ar ebigger when it comes to pure FPU performance.

My point was, that som eusers here stated in the past that XM CPU's are still ebtter than current day BGA cpu's with a hefty OC. That might be the case for clockspeed but not FPU performance which becomes more apparent in videogames. BUt, one big sidenote. If the GPU is the bottleneck it doesnt matter. It only matters when in a heavy CPU bound game the CPU will be a bottleneck earlier than the GPU.

 

hahaha yeah sounds like they are already screwed up... can't even make launch now..

they must have heard " what , lunch time ?" and left.

No, CPU is the bottle neck. Let me explain what happens more often then GPU being the cause of slow downs.
More often then naught - a CPU will throttle and then either drop fps or crash the system. Most people run thier CPU's able to handle nothing but 20-25% load, and if you game and it's at 70+ % load for awhile, there usually is simply no room for that kind of cooling on most laptops and the CPU throttles the GPU first.
Now if your simply running a GPU nintensive program, then yeah ignore all this, if your CPU is fine the entire time, then the GPU only needs to be as fast as the CPU can keep up with, frame rate wise. Might be hard getting 4K at 60 FPS on a weak CPU even if the GPU can do it easily for that program.

 

You clearly didnt see the movies i posted. Even on desktops this is present. When the GPU is not the bottleneck but the cpu is for feeding the GPU you get lower framerates. The Witcher, GTA5, Hitman all have this on SB & IB cpu't to some extend when they have a 970GTX or higher CPU. Especially with something like the 1080GTX. The latter is really a card that not all CPU's can fully utilize, The newest Titan X is said of that no current consumer CPU can get the most out of it.

 

While I have no input on this CPU and GPU discussion, I did find something that relates with the main topic at hand.

(If image doesn't show, it's a retweet of TweakTown's tweet of their article on the mobile GTX 1070 almost as powerful as a GTX 980 ti.)
You can find this on Alienware's Twitter. And given the rumors (or facts) that MSI and Clevo are changing (slightly or not) their laptops' chassis to accommodate Pascal GPUs, that Alienware 17" laptop announcement for next month may be a Pascal revision for it.

 

@|Gamese7en: your company's in the dumpster
+ you're dumpster divers, as an afterthought
**** those new laptops, they'll get not one penny from me

All AM models are non-80, hence no 80Plus logo

Spoiler: Non-Compliance Sheet

.9727 Power Factor, gimme a break. Dell's too embarrassed to publish the 20% 50% load figures which helped deny the AM models even a base 80Plus rating typical E-suffix Eco 80Bronze from Dell do display the logo. Bronze is the minimum you want, & Aurora buyers have every right to receive E models, but as you just saw, they're getting non-80 A models, as a cost-cut

​

PSA: they're shipping non-80Plus certified 460w power supplies in Aurora R5. At my behest, owner yanked his suspect chassis, only to get the ugly news: D460AM-03. Polluter of dubious qwality. I shudder to think that is hooked up to a GTX 1080 which it is, it's worse for the person now owning it. This is the same chassis that re-booted under load with 3DMark, ya think. This is what they've been reduced to. Dumpster Diving. I can't even think right now

Dellware. It's Dellware
_______________
​

edit

This was posted for prominent public display on Arena, for the Wall of Shame, I just linked to it. Other pics are from my AlienClub forum posts / blogs usually

Not even!

PSA: these are the 'same' 460s in the AGA Alien Graphics Amplifier: Frank Azor wants all Titans 1080s 1070s 980Tis & 980s hooked up in a death-grip to non-80Plus p/o/s Corporate 460s, since it's a profit windfall & he figures we're all too stupid to lift the lid & notice ... cha-ching. This is how they wish to celebrate their 20th Anniversary ... spoil & pamper & get liberal with the 'good' (*cough*) parts bin in 2016 as a thankyou. How about just for the 1st wave of buyers to make a good 1st impression. Not even. With 80+ E models sitting on a shelf somewhere, selling & continuing to sell non-80 A models to AGA & Aurora buyers is a sin against the Gaming Enthusiast Community

ewwwwww ... just .... ewwwwww

Booooooo
Go home Alienware. You're drunk
______________
#FireFrankAzor​

 

Where do you get these wonderful pictures anyways?

Not even 80 plus!

 

AC460EM-00 is printed on the PSU but the chart you linked shows AC460EM-01?

The AC460EM-00 seems to have passed everything though

They seem to be 80 plus according to those pdfs and not 80plus bronze you mean?

edit:
Oh you might've posted the wrong pic but I found the alienware club full post though

 

how long do we think till Alienware start using these


http://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu...unces_their_new_nvme_bga_ssd_with_bics_nand/1

 

Goodness...what a nightmare lol... phone chips into gaming laptops...nooooo

Those would be great in a smart phone. That's it.

 

YOu know that a flash memory chip on your msata, m2, stick is jsut a BGA chip as well right?

 

They could really use those in 2.5mm drives to get 10TB+

Soldered onto the motherboard? One dead board means the cpu, gpu, and ssd goes with it.

 

"well suited for ultrathin mobile PCs" well people do keep complaining how difficult it is to carry around a laptop with an adequate cooling solution, I'm sure that would save a fair build on build cost & weight. Will be great for when dell will try & push out a model akin to a razor blade or would that mean deviating too much from being able to homogenize the XPS & F.alienware eventually I expect it just to be a cosmetic difference, that is how I feel it's going to end up looking at the new desktop they have put out

 

yes well done, "is designed to be directly soldered onto the motherboard of a product"
"this SSD comes in a 16mm x 20mm BGA package, but also comes as an M.2 Type 2230 (Short M.2) form factor."

is this forum running really slow again for other people or is it just me

 

They could put full single chip SSD solutions on your motherboard already for ages. But they didnt. This is nothing new.

 

That was what I was referring to in that if they did start getting really-really retarded and solder these things onto the mobo as the primary SSD...that would be dooms day.

 

just because it not happening now doesn't mean they wont

this is how we socketed laptop owners/biassed feel about the current gen Alienware models & 90% of the laptop market

I'm sure if you asked most of us if we ever thought F.alienware would move away from socket & mxm we would have thought it would never happen just a few years ago

 

On the bright side as mainstream companies get more and more retarded (literally) that opens up a wide door for other companies to capitalize...I hope we always have those companies to suit our wants and needs...

 

Is it possible to replace the power supply with a choice of our own in this case?

First thing I'll do if i ever get a AGA is to swap out the power supply, if it's possible...

 

That shouldn't be too much of a stretch and very possible. It'd be great to see some successful swaps in action...

 

take a look at the laptop market at the now & see how it's changed to take advantage of the demand for a replacement of what Alienware laptops used to offer

only one other company offers such a product & its the same other that was always there no one new has apeared to offer a competitor

yes but as ever I would recommend building you own if you can

 

Right, not sure what the hell Dell is thinking here. Even an amateur know not to power a GPU with a cheap ass oem PSU. 3 years of premium service won't matter if a user fry their GPU in the end, since it's not covered by Dell. In fact they are literally screwed.

The desktop or eGPU?

I'll definitely build my own desktop, no questions about that. But for eGPU so far I've only seen the AGA providing the best performance compared to the rest. Not sure how are the DIY solutions doing.

 

the GPU is not covered under dells warranty!?

when brought from dell

 

As in the case of AGA, users buy their own gc to be used, so imagine if a user gc is fried by the cheap PSU. Of course Dell won't take responsibility on that, would they? Since the gc is not from Dell. And IINM, most gc brands aren't friendly when it comes to warranty claims because of a PSU fault.