Where are the new Alienwares?

The best in my opinion is to have the 15inch formfactor as it is now with some nice upgrades. But the 17 as a different machine to make the most out of that formfactor. Since now the AW17 and AW15 are internally identical.

For me the AW15 is pretty much the perfect laptop so an upgraded version with minimal a 1070 and a HK CPU would be perfect for me.

 

They haven't done anything well since the M18xR2 and M17xR4. The gimping and crippling crap started about mid-point on those two models with firmware updates packing a trojan payload of Secure Flash BIOS viruses and literally everything they have done as a company has driven them further into the ground. They are the epitome of abject failure due to retarded design. I cannot really identify anything good they have done to give them any credit for anything from Haswell forward. And, what makes it even sadder is their filthy way of doing things has not only brought about the birth of AW BGA turdbooks, but it has metastasized and spread to their desktops. Literally everything they sell is a crippled piece of feces in one way or another. There is no longer any reason for their brand to exist.

 

From a Gaming Laptop and DTR perspective, yes.

Dell's best product yet is the new XPS. Explain how to get something like that with a socketed CPU and MXM GPU while keeping it that thin, without cooling and heat issues...it ain't gonna happen. At least not right now.

Then again, the XPS isn't even a dtr, let alone a gaming laptop so I don't understand the logic in it being a turdbook when it clearly has a purpose with a thin design to cater to those who need ultra portability?

Just because everything isn't a DTR with a socketed CPU and MXM GPU doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose.

DTR's are in its own class, not to be compared with ultra portable laptops. That's just silly.

We'll have to see what AW's answer is to MSI, ASUS and alike....it shall be interesting...somewhat predictable. We'll know shortly.



Powered by: Octa Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

For what it is, the XPS notebook product line is OK. My wife absolutely loves her XPS 15 BGA turdbook. It is well made and attractive. From her frame of reference it is powerful, even though I think its performance is poor and unacceptable. The success of the XPS lineup has more to due to quality and functionality than it does performance. I'm OK with what it represents, but I am able to see it for what it truly is. To present it as anything other than a well made consumer product (many ways similar to MacBook) is a shameful misrepresentation by Dell. The same applies to their Inspiron gamer turdbooks. Barely entry level crap, but you'd never be able to guess that from the marketing if you were a noob and knew nothing about specs.

Part of the problem is Dell/Alienware using unfitting words to describe their products in ways that present them to be something they are not. While it may be correct to call a wimpy notebook with a 17 inch screen a DTR in light of the fact there are many extremely pathetic Dell, Lenovo, Acer, HP and Alienware desktops, it can be technically accurate while simultaneously being extremely deceptive. Their marketing strategy sucks and is built on the concept of deception. I began to notice a trend that direction a year or two before I disassociated myself with the Alienware brand. Their reputation was so strong they have been able to ride on their own coat tails for much longer than I thought they would be able to. Bad news travels slowly with an army of Kool-Aid drinking fanboys that are willing to put up with the lies and distortions.

Another problem we have is the perception that everyone wants thin and light. That is far from the truth, but that seems to be their focus and what they value most as a company. As a result of their shortsightedness, lack of vision and understanding, they have no acceptable products for the market segment that values function over form and substance over style. There is a market for both, but they only serve one market. And, most of their competitors have wimped out in the same way. Sad to say, their competitors wimped out first and Dell is going with the flow, following rather than having the balls to lead by example.

 

Took time to read the replies while enjoying my popcorn. This sentence here sums up my feeling about the whole forum now, Alienware forums in particular, I don't even know why since if certain people despise BGA so much they could very well do it in every single forum here spare for Clevo or maybe MSI. I'm new to this forum, joining just few months ago while looking for suggestions on a new laptop, so I'm not aware at all how is the situation few years ago.

This whole situation here reminds me of the "PC Master Race vs Console Peasants" argument. Why can't we just get along? There's a purpose for each machine, catered for different users yet some of you here have to insist your choice is the best and the choice we made are trash and it's due to our lack of intelligence or knowledge? And no just because we stick with our choices doesn't make us BGA fanboys, we just got our own preference and we feel it suits our usage and purposes more.

 

The sheer arrogance in this topic of some users in my opinion is quite disgusting to be honest.....

As if it is so hard to understand that some users have totally different needs which need to be catered as well. In my years of being one of the moderators on the biggest tech forum in the Netherlands and biggest subsection (gaming) I have never come across this type of toxicity and unfounded elitism.

 

Close this thread already! What's the point of all this hate and negativity?
I remember the AW forums when the first M15x showed up and the knowledge I've gained in these parts were just mind blowing. Heck, I bought a 2000$ laptop from my 2500$ salary and treated her like my newly wed wife for a week until I discovered this forum and had the courage to open her up for a "repaste" in just two days. In two freaking days! The information that floated around this parts made me an enthusiast and an "expert". The current state of this forum just makes me sad and there is nothing to learn here anymore.

And to end this BGA/LGA crap, let me tell you my two cents. I will buy a new 1070/1080 based laptop very soon and it'll will neither be LGA nor BGA. It'll will be whatever the hell I can afford at that time and a system that suits my needs and justifies the price tag. I don't want to be a part of this "my d**k is bigger than yours" anymore and you know why, because my d**k is exactly what my wife needs and so is yours!

Over and out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

hmmmm, there's a double-entendre in there friend, might wanna edit that for clarity

So, if we took a screen shot of the top 15" & 17" - now while we still can - how do we go about price comparing the new Pascal models. My theory is that to help drum-up $67billion for the largest tech buy-out in history, Mr Dell has had Mr Azor on a tight budget for a while now, where the theory predicts we're likely to see price hikes with simultaneous build-costs going down (ie they'll maximize the skimp to widen the profit margin as is already being done). I guess we all know that online prices can be negotiated, & generally we opt for the cheap included memory & hard drive, then upgrade at home, to save on cost. So what is the best way to compare today's top models relative to whatever we're going to see next week, & still have a good idea if costs went up or down or stayed the same at the listed prices today & next week on Aliens.com, since a screen capture of suggested prices is hard to argue with & the easiest way to compare. I say this now while prices are still available, knowing that revisions are sure to be included & need to be accounted for etc. What will it take to compare old 980m to new 1070 & 1080 for instance, to know if Dell plans to treat the consumer right this go around, or cash in on Pascal fever without apology

______________________
edit Monday 8.29​

Fine, so I go on topic, ask about prices & price hikes, but the BGA lovers don't wanna go there. Right now as I edit this in, we're on page 32, not one post from 'I'm Okay with BGA' World is about prices, not one word

... no one wants to discuss a BGA 1080 price or price hike ...
room went silent, figures ​

 

I agree with a majority of your POV brother Fox, Alienware as a company is extremely deceptive, burns far too much $ on deceptive advertisement instead of investing that $ into much needed quality control. My heart truly goes out to all the consumers who fell into the deceptive web they weaved. Out of the 8 machines I had from them, none worked perfectly or anywhere near desired expectations until I opened some of them up & re-pasted/installed my own upgrades. The maxed out 17R2 & R3 do a good job for occasional gaming, photo & video editing on the go (after a re-paste) and they are excellent for school work. But obviously in no way can they be considered excellent benchmarking/high end gaming machines by any means. They work well for 1080P gaming IF you use an AGA with a good desktop GPU. The only way IMHO Alienware could ever earn my respect back, is if they were to release a killer 18" SLI laptop with a proper fully unlocked easy to use BIOS, no limitations, desktop CPU, 120Hz 4K panel with no issues, water-cooled or air cooled option (so those with a deeper wallet can play harder), and no silly power restrictions. But for them to do that they'd have to hire you and Prema, pay you what you guys deserve... That's me daydreaming about a miraculous Alienware comeback.

From what I've been reading 1080 SLI laptops should be good for the next 2 years or so until new GPU tech catches up to the current tech. I plan to purchase either a 1080SLI water-cooled machine if one is released with a desktop CPU in it, or if someone manages to get the new Titan XP's in SLI working on one of these new laptops (on water or air).. Currently not very interested in 1080SLI on air ATM.. The moment I see either one of the above; I'm selling all of my Alienware machines (might keep just one for school & travel convenience). Patiently enjoying observing interesting forums/threads with popcorn in hand to see what manifests in the very near future.

 

Ah.... and here comes the naysayer crowd flooding the threads with negativity just because of the butt hurt - Predictable as ever.....

@GodlikeRU offering nothing worth of note as always and replying to those who he earlier claimed he'd be ignoring. Not one for consistency I see.

@Mr. Fox spouting his usual tripe about "turdbooks" and BGA "Filth". How is your "AlienKiller" holding up? Noticed you are asking for a staggering $3000+ for that already dated and irrelevant machine now that Pascal is out of it's grasp.
Lets me know how that goes........
(Oh wait, did you just drop the price already?!)

Alienware have made brilliant machines after the M18x R2 Mr. Fox - I know you don't agree but that doesn't change the fact. It's your opinion. That is all.
Solid reviews worldwide and an audience to support it.

It's boring lads. Really.
We are all so utterly sick of your poisonous comments about how you don't like BGA or whatever it is you are complaining about.

I've already tried diverting the conversation back on topic but yet again the naysayers pull it back.

For everyone else who's taking a stand. Well done.
I find this thread having pages of posts submitted every time I return because I'm too busy enjoying gaming.
There's NOTHING wrong with enjoying the latest line up of Alienwares. They are very good machines, especially for gaming....which is what Alienware is aimed for....

Back to topic before the naysayers have another thread closed. God this is tiresome.....

Any idea when the first reviews are coming for the new Pascal equipped Alienwares?

 

Occasional gaming? I finished the witcher with high settings @60fps on it and many other games. With an overclock it performed the same as a desktop 970gtx. For a 2 year old gpu that is pretty damn fine.

So now i wonder what you wish for in a laptop of this size.

 

Lol.....Most likely MXM to allow for upgra.......
Oh Wait........

 

I don't enjoy games unless everything is maxed out at minimum 60FPS.. This laptop cannot max out majority of my games @ 60FPS with all eye candy on even in 1080P, let alone in 4K (kind of a joke to offer a 4K screen with a 980M LoL).. I do fine if I use the AGA, but without it - it is occasional gaming when time permits because ALL the eye candy cannot be enabled with 60FPS+++.

What I expect, is an absolute minimum of 60FPS with all the eye candy maxed out in ALL games @ 1080p. What I want in a new laptop is minimum 60FPS in 4K with all the eye candy turned up... The wait continues.

 

I didn'thave any problems the past 2 years to max out games except for some unreasonable settings and still reach 60fps. But with a 200mhz oc. 4K is still not doable for some thing i am afraid. Only 2x a 1070 or 1080 will do that well. But that means big not so ergonomic machines.

 

I crank up every setting to Ultra when gaming without the AGA, some games stay @ 60FPS in 1080P, others (Witcher 3 with hairworks ON, etc) not so much. My favorite sweet spot is 2K gameplay dialed in with minor compromises on graphical detail settings. The problem is when you go 4K, it's next to impossible to go back to anything less.

 

But even a 1070 has trouble keeping The Witcher 3 at a steady 60fps with hairworks fully enabled. Some games just refuse to go 60fps even with hardware that came much later.

 

What exactly are you talking about?

I have the Alienware 17 R2, 16gb ram, 980M 4gb and the i7-4980HQ (1080p screen not 4k). I can play every single game on at least high, with quite a lot of games on the max graphical settings with AA turned on. Hell right now I'm playing Deus Ex MD on high, all the additional graphics settings turned on but MSAA off. I get on average 48 fps.

Neither my CPU or GPU go above 70 (with the CPU staying in the high 50s, low 60s) while gaming. With the XTU test my CPU will hit 93 degrees but doesn't throttle (no overclocking). Fans set on auto, and repasted with prolimatech pk-3 on both the CPU and GPU.

How much did this laptop cost me? $2000 with a free laptop bag and +1 year warranty extension thrown in since I had to get it replaced. The first unit came with a bunch of dead pixels in the corner of the screen, looked like shipping damage so Dell replaced it and threw in some freebies.

Is it a gaming machine? Yes yes it is. Is it a benchmarking / overclocking beast like the old alienwares were? Not at all.

My experience with Dell/Alienware has been vastly different to yours and I've owned plenty of their laptops. I've never had to argue with them about getting anything replaced or fixed (I've only had a few cases of this so my experience is anecdotal at best), and they've always overnighted the repair parts to me. Beats sending your laptop in and waiting 2 weeks to get it back imo. Yes I know my warranty includes free in home support but I prefer to fix it myself and Dell has never said no to that.

I will say that I do agree with you and Mr Fox about locking down the BIOS. I understand why it was done but still, all they have to do is provide a warning and if people destroy their laptops (which is rare as **** anyways) that's their problem. No reason for them not to do that, it's not like it costs them any more money to ship an unlocked bios vs. a locked bios.

The desktop 1080 SLI can't even hit 60 fps at 4k with max graphics on Deus Ex. Guess by that logic the desktop 1080 cards are just garbage locked down trash.

 

My 17R3 has been able to play every game I threw at it on high settings at minimum 60FPS on 1080p, but I am talking about maxing everything out to Ultra and maintaining a minimum of 60FPS.. That's a BIG difference from high settings. There are maybe 2-3 games max in my library that can do that. I am well aware of the FPS #'s all these machines produce.

Because 1080SLI can't max out games in 4K @ 60FPS I have no interest in it. The new Titan XP's in SLI can in fact maintain above 60FPS 4K. Only that is of interest to me ATM. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

Just a plain simple take -

It's just insane to have people laughing at the socketed hardware with unrestricted firmware access, easy to perform repairs & having upgrades as If It's a negative thing while the previous gen machines every capability which was the selling point for many as one can easily notice the influx of the same consumers flock towards the Clevo /MSI laptops. And the same people trying to get at-least the flagship class machines from the full BGA company while It's futile, Everyone knows how Private corps work. But a glimmer of hope....by at-least making a significant point to let people know that they are being shafted might have some impact.

But Alas ! I can only laugh to the stupidity of this world.

My 2¢ - Signing off permanently to this thread. RIP Alienware

 

I had to click on "Show Ignored Content" link to see what you were talking about.

Considering the source, did you actually expect something intelligent to be posted? Right-click on the user's name and use the link to add them to your ignore list and you won't even see their posts any more. You won't feel compelled to respond to nonsense if you never see it. It will be almost as if those folks do not exist. This works well for me, @Phoenix and others that use an ignore list.

 

No one is laughing at socketed enthuasist hardware, except for a few black sheeps here. What me and most users here who used LGA and BGA machines in the past don't understand is why some of you feel compelled to insist that BGA is all bad and LGA should be the only choice available? LGA and BGA had coexisted for many years in the electronics market and no one is making a big deal out of it, both of them serve different purposes and users in the market. The pros and cons of both had been made very clear throughout the years. Those of us who chose BGA machines already understand the cons, as well as the benefits of LGA and vice versa, it's been made very clear. There is no need for some of you here to call us names and making fun of our choices as if we have zero knowledge in this area.

If you guys really want to make a change, let your voices be heard, trust me doing it in this forum won't be enough. Boycotting companies? That won't work as well as you've realised how small the percentage of enthuasist consist in market. Hell even Clevo who we used to believe was committed to the enthuasist market had shafted many of you by screwing with the MXM format. You know what? Maybe try doing a real protest infront of Intel/Ngreedia HQ and you may have some hope in keeping LGA/MXM alive. Or something substantial like sending a letter or momento to some high brass. Ranting in this forum will never do any good, trying to lecture users about their purchase won't work as most had made up their mind. Many of us come here for troubleshooting, and to gain knowledge in an appropriate way, not to be lectured every single day about our purchases, as if it's our fault LGA/MXM in laptops is dying.

 

Any reason to not use the 6700T for this laptop? 200mhz higher clock than the 6700HQ at base and draws 10less watts ( 35 vs 45 ). Also costs only 303 USD vs 378 USD

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-15-R2-Notebook-Review.153808.0.html

 

you talk about clevo commited to enthusiast but never once they mentioned they are commited. we like clevo as it is one of the last remaining non trashy OEM, as most buys into assisting intels domination, clevo actually gave a crap about high end and uses desktop CPU.

you make it sound like we provide support to clevo yet we were betrayed, yet you are blind to at the fact that yourselves joined the 99.99% of majority to buy trash hardware and forces OEM to go that route. Take a standard deviation graph, people with overlapping traits along with stupidity tend to be in great number in the middle, while extremist likely to be on either end.

with zen might be on par or out performing broadwell E, i'll be waiting for some socket laptop desktop replacement to ditch BGA all together.


@cookies981 and no, i got 3940xm for just $280, though i did get lucky with a better binned chip for mobile segment, even at high clock I can still feel the need to go higher as the things i do are very intensive and i easily feels lag/delay/stutter at this level of cpu performance. the so called gaming is like taking a stroll in the park of what i do on my laptop and 3D CAD is just a small portion of it.

 

@ZeneticX Very good post buddy.

Unfortunately the naysayers feel this compelling urge to voice their unwanted rants about how Alienware have ignored their pleas and that we are somehow responsible...

Several times were Alienware representatives interacting with these members, including General Manager Frank Azor.
You ought to have seen that disaster. Going in that no personal attacks or flaming were to take place the arrogant spoilt man-childs many are had that quickly devolved into mindless lambasting because Alienware were heading in a new direction. These forum members and their delusional mindset pretty much had the attitude that the company somehow owed their views unparalleled consideration.

And now to the present day, when challenged, they ignore users or threads altogether because no one is listening to their tantrums.
They're not nice people and really come across as putting forth it's either their way or no way...
These are the same people that will tout their views that a brand or machine in general is unbelievably amazing and worth ever penny only later to try and sell it the following week.

 

Your post shows that you clearly do not understand what most are saying. No one is laughing at socketed hardware. The problem is that you and many others don't understand that they dont want to sacrifice portability (because it is a laptop) for a little bit more power. Most people dont care about unrestricted firmware access because it doesnt at a lot for most. It is a bit funny htough how MXM was promoted for quite a while and they changed the standard again rendering a lot of upgrade paths useless thus overstating the longevity. Laptops are laptops, they simply dont have the options that desktops have.

Also I think that you heavily overstate that "influx" all these business are here for more than a decade, surviving in a fairly difficult market. Dont underestimate their insights in the market. If it was truly as popular as your portray than Asus, Dell, MSI etc would cater more heavily towards the market that you describe. MSI indeed started to offer some desktop hardware laptops but even in their marketing materials it is hardly mentioned. They are just trying to see if they can catch some of the Clevo buyers. In fact if you have followed the Taiwanese tech news it isnt really going very well with Clevo nor is MSI going well and thus lagging behind Asus in terms of laptop sales. The market of which you are part of is pretty much the reason why Clevo still has some foothold in the market. They don't do it out of charity they do it to survive. They cannot compete with the bigger brands in other markets. But I can tell you this, when there is no money for them in it anymore they will stop offering those machines as well. Than you can rant how they shafted you as a "loyal consumer".

All these brands are businesses not charity.

Oh and you can stick that arrogance up yours. The lack of insight into what other consumers want is clearly showing that you aren't at the other end of the spectrum.

For someone with your status I am disappointed with how arrogant you can come across and quite narrowminded. Not ment offensive merely as feedback. Not that you would care.

 

i think thats just like you though, your own view trying to shove it down our throat, agree to disagree. the rest tl;dr i simply caught that part so i'll make it red.

for someone who seems very civil shares your personal opinions with us, I am disappointed you can't realize a simple fact there are just things people can't accept =/

 

Mr Fox has a long relationship with this forum as a mod but during the end of his mod days and after his mod days he is part of the toxicity in these subforums. I dont get why that was condoned by the rest of the NBR crew.

Everyone is allowed to have their opinion ofcouse. But constantly bashing the others with stuff like "kool-aid drinking unintelligent whatever users" does not show any respect. You reap what you sow.

 

@ole!!! I've not been trying to shove any opinion down anyone's throat.

My stance has always been that I don't care that MXM is being replaced because of its unreliability and in continued recent cases, complete failure, concerning upgrades (Which is it's sole purpose).

It's been - Buy what you want and enjoy it. End of.

Do we have slanderous remarks in signatures? No.
Do we constantly call others uneducated? No.

Like many we are fed up of the negativity and threads being hijacked or just closed down entirely because the naysayer camp think it's their prerogative to come in and insult other users because they bought something else.

 

So what are you going to do about that? What if few months ago I bought a P870DM-G instead of my BGA crapbook? What if I sell my BGA crapbook at this instance and buy a P870DM-G? Does it change the market? Does it put a dent into the sales and creation of BGA turdbooks? No and no. Again some of you and putting the blame and pointing fingers at us. You yourself stated that 99.99% of the consumer market goes for BGA, so as I said, ranting for a change in this forum won't do any good, even if 100% of the users in this forum converted to LGA it still won't change the market. Unless there's a revolution in the market, BGA is not going away and never will, this is a fact that some of you have to accept. And no, before you start to misunderstand me, I'm not hoping for the death of LGA and upgradable hardware. I've said before that both of them should coexist. As stated we as consumers should not be fully blamed in the current state of market, if companies want to support LGA, they could very well do it alongside with providing BGA.

And regarding Clevo, they did promote about the MXM format prior to changing it when Pascal was released no? That to me was sort of an assurance to enthuasist. And I believed, although I don't have the data to back this up, buyers who bought the P870DM-G, 90% of them if not 100% are from the enthuasist market, they know very well what this laptop is capable of and what they are spending money on. Because come on lets face it, a normal consumer won't spend more than £1800/$2500 on a laptop, let alone a laptop brand that they never heard of (When I first heard about Clevo few years ago I was like WTF is this China brand?). Clevo was very aware what sort of market they are serving with the laptops they are selling.

Same goes to MSI, infact I was very close in getting a GT72 (thanks to their MXM upgrade promise) but alas I found a better deal. Wonder what would've happened if I got the MSI instead, since I'm not in the USA and won't be part of the trade in program. Damm....

 

Those advocating tolerance are often the most intolerant. BGA became filth when it became the only option. People become butt-kissers and Kool-Aid drinkers the moment they are OK with the lack of options and expect everyone else to be just because they are. Why silly people take criticism of filth as a personal attack is beyond me. It's a very sad statement about them and the way too many people in the world think. It's not enough to have their way. They want to drag the rest of us down with them. If we resist or refuse to accept their views then we're the intolerant people with a problem. Well, I call BS on that screwed up way of thinking.

I never had anything to say about BGA until that filth started affecting me. Those of us that are pissed off about it have every right to be and I think most of will stay that way indefinitely because it's one of those things that will never be acceptable in what should be an enthusiast product. I'm really disappointed that so many people are willing to put up with it. I have to constantly remind myself that they are consumers, not enthusiasts.

 

This reminds me of Trump speeches. Turning tables, bending realities and refusing to see the views of others.

 

AH yes because you know people like us are responsible for Alienware, MSI, Clevo etc going more towards BGA.

Oh right I'm sorry I forgot that I cannot buy a laptop that suits MY needs and has what I CARE about. Not like it's my own money. How silly of me, I should have considered Mr. Fox's needs when buying my laptop and bought one accordingly because you know when I'm spending my money I should care about other people's needs.

I don't care what you think of BGA, but you go far further than that. I fully accept and respect your choice in LGA laptops over BGA, I draw the line when enthusiasts (not necessarily you) seem to feel that everyone else is idiotic because they bought a laptop that matches their needs better instead of one with a desktop PC and MXM SLI cards because if we don't then that market is going to die.

Also "butt kissers" and "kool aid drinkers" yeah because me researching and choosing a laptop that fits what I want makes me a kool aid drinker.

Holy **** you guys have become so delusional over the years that you refuse to accept the reality even though it's right in front of your faces. But hey keep blaming everyone else be it consumers, Nvidia, intel, AMD, MSI, Clevo, Alienware, Dell etc etc etc.

All that proves to me is you're so ****ing insecure with yourself and your purchases that you feel the need to rant on about it on every single forum post and prove how superior your laptop is to everyone else. The rest of us? We're perfectly happy using our machines for what they were made for and we don't have to go around shoving that down other peoples throats.

The only people who are to blame for the decline of the enthusiast market is enthusiasts themselves. Nobody else is expected to keep your hobby alive and well. Not Intel, Not AMD, Not Nvidia, Not Alienware, Not MSI, Not Clevo etc etc etc. They don't owe you anything, it's upto you to prove it to them that investing in products designed for that market is a worthwhile endeavor. Nobody else.

 

He'll be wanting to build a wall next to keep the "consumers" out... good lord......

They sure put the @ss in enthusiast...

Just reading over his name calling comments shows how far he's fallen...

But I do agree on one point.
More options is never a bad thing - This is correct.

...provided those options can actually be fully used as they were intended.

 

Rofl.

Like I have said repeatedly. I do not want the enthusiast market to completely disappear, neither do I want LGA / MXM to completely disappear. The more options people have the better things become for everyone else. BUT it's not my responsibility to buy products from that market just to keep it alive, I'm going to buy whatever suits me the best.

So holding us responsible and criticizing our choices for doing what we think is best for ourselves isn't going to get you anywhere. It's like saying "**** guys we can't let AMD go out of business, better start buying their products even though there are better choices for your needs." That's just never going to happen and pretty delusional at the end of the day.

 

I'm not hijacking this thread or anything, I bet @rinneh and others who needs a best of both worlds, I mean a laptop that can single handedly do all the office work by day and at night, a beast that can handle games at high or ultra settings and somewhat easier to carry.
Coming to BGA turd and other turds, we need to let go off it. I'm just voicing my opinion here.
What Mr.Fox and other enthusiasts are saying, since they have more or less owned every gaming hardware and they are asking for gaming performance that reigned supreme in their yesteryears.
But from Dell POV, not everyone buys lappies targeted specifically for gaming purposes and now there are users who want to be more productive and needs some kind of portability factor added to it, so there comes BGA to satisfy some %age of users with downside of lesser future upgrades.

 

In the end i could give a rats ass about if it is BGA or not (BGA is only a mounting method anyway).

I have a certain expectations and wishes for a certain formfactor. I buy any laptop that meets those specifications (relatively powerful, portable and long batterylife, reliability). The past generation the AW15 was the only laptop that could offer me this. If someone creates that with a socket CPU and MXM GPU than I would buy that. But that is pretty much impossible at this point. There is always a sacrifice and those factors I just named are the sacrifices I dont want to make.

In b4 you cannot upgrade. Well I see AW15 and AW17 motherboards for around 600 euro new. If I had an R1 I could upgrade it to an R2 with ease for 600 euro's. This is a board with CPU and GPU obviously mounted. 1 MXM 980M upgrade already costs that much. So for the ability to upgrade was never the dealmaker or breaker. Who knows what will happen when the R3 comes. If I can buy a motherboard then and it fits I might upgrade.

The machines that Mr Fox and Papusan for example promote are so big and expensive I rather buy a really really good desktop which outperforms any laptop for a lot cheaper price while being guaranteerd of the ability to upgrade which has been proven again is still a guess with upgrade-able laptops..

 

General Observation: I find it odd how one can conclude that another is "insecure" just because they enjoy their hobby and take the time to voice their opinion on what is needed to improve the current state of miserable failure. That is anything but insecurity, which begs the question; who is the delusional one?

It is because of those that truly push the limitations of available hardware that better configurations are offered in the very near future. Discernment isn't something the good Lord blessed everyone with equally, but hey-as long as it sounds like a punch that could land a knock-out; let it be thrown so a weaker mind can prevail.

 

I've already said this several times. There's a difference between voicing your opinion and insulting others for the purchase choices they made.

Calling them Kool-Aid drinkers and butt kissers goes beyond voicing your opinion and moves into insulting. That's when you come off sounding like an insecure child who cannot accept that other people have different needs to your own. I disagree with your choices of laptop because they don't suit my needs, but you I'm not calling you stupid for buying a laptop that suits your needs or buying 2x Titan XPs because you enjoy gaming at 4k with everything maxed out.

The most obvious example of this is why so many company reps no longer visit / post here as often as they used to. A lot of threads went far beyond voicing your opinion and well into nothing but hatred and vitriol towards that rep / their job / their families / their morals etc. Guess what good that did? Did those companies start releasing laptops that the enthusiasts wanted? Hardly, instead they just started ignoring them and coming here significantly less often which hasn't benefited anyone in anyway.

 

What I don't understand is how the non-upgradable laptops are OK to have/buy.

Certainly it would not be a disadvantage to have an upgrade option to those who want to pursue it, or you can still sell the machine and buy new as usual.


The problem with the Echo machines, they only cater to the lowest common denominator. Unlike the previous products which caters to the enthusiasts and all the other audience.

 

And I agree with that. I don't upgrade my laptops because I use them to the point where it would cost me more to upgrade it than it would to just buy a new one and get a new laptop. Like after the 3-4 years that my laptops normally get used, the keys are all shiny (if I haven't already replaced the keyboard once or twice), the touchpad has a shiny spot, the palm rests are worn etc. Buying a new GPU + palm rest/touchpad + battery already puts me at like 70-80% the cost of a new laptop. I might as well just spend a little bit extra and buy a new one and get all new parts + a better CPU.

My laptop is in use roughly 10+ hours most days of the week. I use it for work, classes, gaming daily and it travels with me to work / class too. So having one that's lighter but still powerful enough to do what I want from it is important as well.

But like I said, it's sad that there isn't many options left anymore so I do 100% agree with you that the lack of competition / choices isn't a good thing by any means.

 

Upgrade options come with size disadvantages. You simply cant have both. It has nothing to do with being an enthusiast or not. Pretty much all laptops are too dinky to compare with high end desktop hardware to begin with. Laptops always have some sort of compromise. The comlromise you accept defines the laptop you buy.

 

The P7xxxM series don't seem to be much heavier than the Alienware, though the battery life is bad because of not being able to turn off the dGPU.

 

They are compared to the 15inch ofcourse. The AW15 has quite a small footprint. It looks larger than it is because the higher feet.

I must admit though the AW17 is a bit weird in the lineup. At least it doesnt use the chassis to its fullest potential. Its just a AW15 with a bigger screen.

 

You get subwoofer, if that counts as something significant.

Bigger battery maybe? I could get close to 5 hours with the 4K model with custom undervolt and power profile.

 

Larger screen, a full size keyboard with more macro keys, a subwoofer, better battery life and slightly better cooling, that's about it

They could've did more with the larger chasis eg more ports (I often ran out of USB ports to use, 3 is too little IMO), or a SLI option for those who can pay for it

 

except you all lined up acting like trump, it goes both way. thats why theres supporters and non supporters. however when reality hits, majority of people are proven not to be the smartest by a simple standard deviation graph. i laugh because you're all the same.

brain washed consumers spending money helping intel build a wall to keep spending more yet buying trash, have gone delusion and can't separate between facts anymore all i gotta say.


normally in these type of arguments, there will always be one type of comment "if you dont like it then dont buy it" LOL we havent bought any bga trash since haswell and thats 2.5 yrs ago.

 

Keep living in your alternate reality where everything is a conspiracy theory and everyone is out to completely screw you over.

 

welp in red.

you are delusional sir

 

Yet you refrain from coming with a proper argument while I brought arguments to the table.

 

The pros and cons between BGA and LGA have already been debated and mentioned several billion times, we don't need another post describing LGAs benefits and BGAs drawbacks.

That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that WE (as in people on this forum) have very little influence in what the OEMs do. Every single person on this forum could go buy a Clevo LGA laptop right now and they will head towards BGA. Has nothing to do with the pros and cons of LGA vs BGA and absolutely nothing to do with AMD.

You really believe that lol? People have known for the past 6 months at least that the 1080 chips are no longer going to have a separate M model. People have known for over a year now that the 980 GTX MXM can fit inside Clevos top of the line laptop and work.

No you're right I'm sure Nvidia called up Clevo in August 2016 and were like "yo guess what? No M chips"

I also like how you say "oh to get this you only need to upgrade the chassis, heatsink and motherboard + buy 2 new gpus" "only"...

Brb to upgrade my car to a Ferrari I ONLY need to buy a new engine, fuel tank, transmission + gearbox. Piece of cake man.