Upgrade a G73-jh to 6970?

I talked to the ppl at mxm-upgrade. The picture is JH but the test was on a JW only.

 

I wish you good luck.

 

Actually I'm not sure whether MXM-upgrade really tested the card in the JW... especially since they're only mentioning that their card fits in a JH.

I put their 6970m card in a JW and it easily fits mechanically, but there's no way to fix the card with screws... but duct tape works fine, hahaha, see here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/576937-6970m-g73jw-fail.html

 

Wow, what an impressive thread. It was a great movie (since it took that long to read it ) full of twists and turns, ups and downs. Don't know if I could have watched this as a TV series that started in June, heavy on the stomach achs

Major props to tudordewolf, tijo and I see DH48 is carrying the baton now. Also to svl7 for being a tinker master himself. Many other people involved in helping as is usual and appreciated in an NBR thread.

It was a great read, good luck DH48.

Q

 

This is what i got for a reply from them.

I am gone need all the luck i need lol. I sold my replacement JH heatsink so if i screw this up im out of the game until i get a new heatsink. But luckly i can try to de-solder the R2 heat pipes tomorrow. I dont get it im looking for info on how much do they handle before ...."pop" ..... Some say use a gas burner and cook it untill the solder melts....others say do i quick and do not use a gas burner (might damage the heat pipe) .....so what is it then ....heat fast or slow. I have a heat gun that can go up to 400c and a gas burner also do i need to cool the other end . If i mess up with the R2 no problem but if i kill one of the pipes on the JH.


lol and if it dies in the end...... just happy to take the bullet for the rest of the world

 

The hot air gun will do, I disassembled an Alienware heatsink with one, 400°C should be sufficient. You will have to wait a moment until the solder is melted, and then you have to separate the heatsink from the heatpipes, it won't just fall off due to adhesion or whatever this is called.

 

DH48 just Make sure you have good contact with the heatsink for the dual pipes from the ASUS heatsink assembly.

The heat sink if its sits in place fine, then you are good to go. And it should work just fine.

Good Luck, I am rooting for you to do the job clean, the working of the card is merely academic from there on.

 

I think if the soldering to the heatsink is a success then there is no chance of heat being a problem if it fails this time it must be something relating to the board or the power.

Damn fine work so far to spend that much money and wait that long and not lose hope.

Its not much but +1 from team Dallers.

 

I just hope that this will work then alot of work will pop in like modding bios to make fans work properly then it will encourage others to try AMD HD 6990.

 

It seems i do not know what tools i have. The heat gun was a 700c one. And it had a setting for soldering copper at 650c


And it worked really good less then 10 sec on the pipes and they just came off. But i overdid it as the copper plate that takes heat form the GPU fell off to. Had to solder it back



all the pipes off:
I might solder the 3.rd pipe back and to the JH fins just for extra heat removal:



I put the copper plate back the wrong way so you get the idea were it is
Now have to sand the solder off and get ready to solder the JH pipes to it. I´ll try to do it on Tuesday if not then next weekend ill have the 6970 in the JH If i had not had the trouble with the ordering i would have the new GPU in already. Thats all from me at the moment....now need to study for the two exams

 

Keep up the good work! It will be great if you can get it to work. I'm going to wait for the Radeon HD 7xxx Series and maybe give that a go if it has the potential to work. I wish they would make it easier to upgrade laptops on the whole...more like desktops.

 

+Rep for you DH48. Definetely an interesting read.
Youre really going at this the right way with all the preparations. If you fail it will be pretty safe to assume it just wont work.

 

Ok i went over this thread from the start to analyse all possibilitys.
this is what i get:
1)It works best with Dell vbios. Only thing i did not get is did the fans work OK when @tijo did the test?
The clocks should be OK to from the start?
2)Heat and fitting the new heatsink should not be a problem anymore as its the right heatsink. If im lucky i will be abel to make a rig to fix the JH heatsink and pipes in place to desolder and re-solder the R2 heatsink to it soo it will fit on the first try. Also Will be using IC7 for the core.
3) Will need to make a adapter plate/arm for the right side screw as the JH cards srew is relocated. Should not be a big problem. I got some Al. i can cut to make a arm to reach the cards srew location + have to make a plastik support under it. (want to be able to but the 5870 back if something goes wrong)
4)I am still a bit confused about the MXM-upgrades Clevo swap as they say they needed to cool some parts on the back of the card. Hope i do not have to.

Did i mis anything? Tijo had a issue with windows but that seemed to be related to something else.

Some bad news: I will have to find new plastic washers for the heatsink as i seem to have lost one but that should not be a problem.

The exam on thuesday is with "Matlab" so i need a working comp to study and do some exercises with the program. So im still thinking if i should have a go on tuesday or wait for thursday after the exam to start and work late into the night or just wait for the weekend and start then.


I resurrected a old compaq to update as i go. (need to test if the single core 1,7ghz can handle matlab).

 

No cooling required on the back in the M18Xs. So it is fine as long as the GPU and RAM proper surfaces plus the VRM circuitry get their expected cooling from the standard Dell heatsink.

Will run slower than a faster system but still run. Will also depends on what simulation you are running and the type of math is involved.

 

Don't risk it, do it when you're comfortable.

 

Hi!!! well, im very very exited right now, i dissasembly my msi gx660 and put my 6970m and 940xm to my asus g73jh mb, and guest what it works!!! im so happy right now just looking the way to get the cooler it looks easy, what im worry is aboutthe MASSIVE heat of the vga and cpu, well i will keep you updated guys, some pictures here:

 

Works like it should or works as in you get display but fans go nuts ?

Nice work + rep


If it works ok then the cooling mode will work for me and with the stock heatsink it should work perfectly.

Did you get to test it ? does it run at normal clock or underclocked?. You did not connect the fans ?

 

Tanks DH48, right now working on the vga cooler, the msi was way better than the asus, i think in 2 hours i will have the machine working then ill let you know how the fan works, my 6970m was from clevo/eurocom so to make it work on normal speeds i use the dell bios, well ill be back (right now writing from my msi stock vga+740qm)

 

i7-940XM + AMD Radeon 6970M? It kinda sounds too awesome to be true

 

Lets us know how it turns out then i know if i can to the swap tomorrow or not I just need to grind the heatsink a bit and just solder the heatpipes and im done

 

@Thanatospy It works yes this was proven by Tijo but the main point is can it run as a gaming laptop should.

A 940xm and 6970M running Battlefield 3 for instance will certainly have problems if not from heat, from lack of power. It appeared last time that with the JH heatsink once stressed it became unstable and failed not while it was running at idle, be very careful before considering firing it up with just the JH heatsink on it would be safer to attempt DH48's mod and then you can work on the heat and power supply then.

+1 non the less

 

Well, right now i finish to assembly the machine, and it turns on, the fans working on normal speed, the air coming out feels normal, now i have to work on a heat discipator for the part of the card that don't have heatsink, lot of heat coming from the 3 big regulators, my zalman nb3000 will be a + for that part jojojo

 

Well we will hear soon

Strange is that the R2 heatsink i got is really thin. Thinner then the JH and no fins on it. Lol i might go Frankenstein on the heatsink. I got 3 extra heatpipes now and i might solder 2 of them over the mem. chips and under the rear exhaust fins (pic 1) as there is room there just need to take the notebook apart.

pic.1

 

Are you sure that the lower part heats up ? Good to hear fans work normal. I got the Dell card with dells vbios so should have no problems to

 

Yes the lower part will get hot but your heatsink covers the majority of the modules that generate heat looking at your picture.

 

well, my iddle temps for the cpu are 45/50 celcius and for the vga 60c, i can get it lower but the temp is similar to the ones i get in the msi, the only problem so far is i cant make my resolution work at 1920x1080 :s well im using the original hdd gonna try reinstalling with my ssd and see what happens

 

that is a good news wow!!!
with some work this will be a nice upgrade and the normal fan speed thing makes it possibe to get a fully working hd 69XX on g73.

if that works i will get a 6990 in 15 days.
just have to wait for the salary

 

The amount of power drawn by the 6970M is high enough the 6990M would probably not be possible as it would draw more and produce more heat.

Remember the 6970M is still being tested people dont go rushing out spending hundreds of $'s £'s until its proven to work successfully under load.

 

Right click on the desktop, screen resolution. Then choose Display "1 Mobile PC Display" and "Show desktop only on 1", should do the trick.

 

well as i said if it works
and about the power draw part you may be right but the different is about 25w between the 5870 and the 6990m i guess if thats right in theory it will work just fine if combined with the 720qm , 740qm, 840qm, also its been reported that it consume about 135-145w with the 920xm in msi forum and alienware m15x section.

and not going to rush anyway just exited and if things go well it will be a nice upgrade.

as svI7 reported

Power consumption:

The power draw of the card is probably about 75-100W. I run this card together with an i7 920xm in my M15x and it works fine. Nevertheless you need to be careful, as the PSU of the M15x is only rated 150W. When doing some 3dM11 runs with both GPU and CPU overclocked I measured about 160-170W current draw from my system during the combined test. You really need to be careful when running this card, especially when you have an extreme processor (920/940xm). Pushing both GPU and CPU can (and will) bring the PSU to its limits (and above).

Some numbers about the power draw when playing games, everything on stocks:

Black Ops Zombies (everything on max): ~ 130-140W
Portal 2 (everything on max): ~110-125W
Medal of Honor (everything on max) ~140-150W

The device I use for measuring the power draw has an accuracy of about ± 10W.

I'll update some more numbers later, also with OC.

he really did a nice job there m15x owners are praying for you.
now its thanatospy and DH48 turn to be the G73JH heros

 

The 5870M is 50 watts the 6970M depending on load is 75-100 watts. Considering the G73JH is a 150 watt laptop with a 150 watt stock adaptor that card alone can consume 2/3 of the overall power supply this has been the discussion all along it may work but will you get the full performance of the card? with a 180 watt adaptor maybe.

In your calculation you are not taking into consideration that the 135-145watt you quote relates to the GPU + CPU only they may be the two biggest draws but what about every other hardware component on the laptop? think about it. Also you mention the 920XM consumes 45 watts that is wrong at full load with stock clocks it draws 50-60watts and that is if its not unlocked which is the whole purpose of the CPU.

I mentioned a few pages back in response to what people are saying about even if it works what is the point if it cannot perform because of lack of power or too much heat but this is about will it work and if so how well, without adjustments I just cannot see it reaching full performance with stock cooling and power supply. The Alienware bricks are 240 watts for one of these cards with a QM CPU.

 

Once the cooling is under control you can mod an alineware 240 watt PSU to work with the G73JH.

 

I'll Believe it when I see the JH board draw more than 180watts

 

i got the alienware 240w psu moded for work on my g73 , so im not worry about the power (writeng to you from it!) i think i got under control the thermal problem, but still testing it, so when i get concrete info ill post guys, right now working amazing, also looking for some info for get the fans working 100% all the time, so gonna take longer to get really hot any info that can help?

EDIT: after runing some tests never get more than 80c cpu/gpu (about 10 mins) i must say here in my country we have 34c right now so we are going fine!

 

Not sure whats there to believe in it, its pure electronics if you know what to mod you can make a PSU from another vendor work with the ASUS or any other vendor.

Thanatospy above reports he has already done it.

 

I don't know if HWiNFO32/64 fan fan control for the G73JH.

But a shortcut is to cut the sense wire from the fan so it doesn't look for voltage feed-sense from motherboard and the fan will run at full 5 Volt draw all the time.

 

You are mistaking what I said you can plug a 1000watt PSU into the JH board if you like but can the JH board draw more than 180watts? You seem to be thinking on the basis that you are feeding power into the laptop and that is not the case the motherboard will draw the juice it requires.

I will believe it when I see if because my board will not draw above 176watts before cutting out for me with my Targus which can handle 180watts and probably more so mod away and I will be interested to see how this works as you say yes electronics is not my strong point, Im sure Tijo would have mentioned this if it were possible.

Also do not get me wrong high fives all around if it works but the real way to see how it is performing is to show working benchmark scores and stress tests as well to not give people false hope as the previous 2 failed attempts happened when the card was put under load for a short period of time, which is the biggest factor here that something on the board was not being cooled and hence why DH48 bought a specific heatsink, be careful not to burn your card.

 

All the mbs out there (laptop and desktop) can draw as much of power their components need, same as desktops, better psus to handle better components

 

Ok I am gonna leave you to it, just make sure you are grounded before attempting anything going on what you just said please.

​

 

Ah I See

No idea what your system draws but my G73JH draws 156watts on furmark and on normal loads on intensive scenes like Crysis series, around 136 watts. No overclocks to CPU but graphics card to the clocks as mentioned in my signature.

This is all without an overclocked XM series CPU, so that is already running close to the rated limits of the PSU, the PSU is good for another 30 watts before you take too much life out of them.

With a 6970/6990M (both draw the same amount of power at the same clocks because the extra 160 clusters are not really power gated) and a XM CPU you don't even need furmark to pass 150 watts. And if you want to push the the card you need a more robust PSU plus overclocking the XM CPU mean even more.

The M17X R3 comes with 210/240 watts for this reason.

If you don't overclock the card and overclock the CPU alone you are still taking life out of your 150 watt PSU, but by running a higher rated PSU you are keeping the PSU cooler and the life of the PSU is not unduly taken out.

Its always good practice to over estimate the PSU power to make it run cooler and last longer.

You might be able to overclock and the CPU and the card and run it stable for the first few months but I can guarantee after that first 1-2 months (maybe even less) your system will start shutting off or freezing during heavy loads because that the first tell tale sign your PSU is letting go.

Without an XM CPU just the card alone should be ok with the current PSU but even then on overclocks making your PSU go through plus 160 watts for extended periods is not at all advisable.

 

To get fans on full blast use program called RWeverything. If you search for it and g73 it will come up With thread explaining how to get fans on full.

Also as for motherboard limit I think there is none, at least it is not 180 wats. As my 5870m With 920xm draws at max 196 wats from standard 150w psu. Both overclocked of course

 

Your missing everything I am saying here so for about the 5th time my situation does not matter I am running a Targus 180 watt adaptor and I know I can run it upto about 176-179 watts before my laptop will automatically shut off if I try to push it any further heat is not an issue unless its the PSU causing it to cut out.

What I am trying to get across to you both you seem to think if you attach a bigger PSU the board will draw an unlimited amount of power depending on what it needs but thus far from what I have seen this is not the case every motherboard does have a limit before ''pop'' even if its a lot higher than what it is said to be able to handle.

I will be happily proven wrong but I think what you are attempting will only end in tears, at the same time heat will get you long before the JH can handle over 180watts stable over a period of time so a 240watt adaptor is a waste of time.

However we are moving away from this thread it is about implementing a 6970M successfully into a JH and being able to use it to its full potential so we wait eagerly for benchmark results and stability before people start charging their credit cards.

If it works I will happily limit my 920XM from its peak to allow the extra draw for the 6970M and all its glory!

 

I understood perfectly but your assumptions may only explain that your mobo has a problem or the targus PSU itself isn't living up to the marketed specs.

MXM 3.0b is peaked at 150 watts while PCI express 2.0 alone has 300 watts as the limit. The card will never touch those limits because its cheap VRMs will give way before you even touch the MXM's max limits. Officially they sport 100 watts as the normal limit but the red line is at 150 watts peak.

There could however be limits on CPU power draw just for the CPU rail (ASUS cutting corners to save money), meaning to say one doesn't need the GPU to be pushed to see the laptop shut off, just need to push the CPU as high possible to trigger this, but this I don't know you will have to experiment, I don't have an XM CPU. If this theory turns out to be false, you have some sort of problem with your Mobo, some components making flaking out. Sometimes perfectly working boards when pushed might not be as good as what others have around with the exact same specs. Too many components to factor in that could hold back full potential if they happen to be a little bit below the usual standards.

But a MXM power over draw related shut down it out of the question the MXM specifications have been followed by ASUS on the G73JH atleast so there is no question of altered power limits.

Also I like to know how many people/reviewers have pushed the Targus past the 180 watt mark through any means, not just by the laptop, you can connect it to power draw devices to simulate power draw to really test when the PSU cuts off. The standard 150 watt PSU that comes with ASUS laptops does go beyond the 150 watts rating, this I know from my own findings. I don't know anything about the targus or how good it really is.

To put it short nothing is going to end up in tears, if your system is unable to draw the extra power available its not going to get fried the powerful PSU ends up being redundant for the purpose. If it can draw it will sit well with the PSU's life span.

A shut down triggered by over power draw from the GPU is not going to happen simply because it is upto spec as expected. Its more costly to deviate from MXM specs than most realize.

 

You can mod the PSU to work with the system, but this doesn't mean that it will help with power issues.

That's simply not true... for several reasons. The design of the circuit, but also the rating of the components. True, most components come with a nice tolerance margin, bu if you almost double the current which which passes through a component there's a big chance that it simply fries.

Also if you look at the M15x mobo you can see that a bigger PSU doesn't simply allow to draw more power. I've tested it thoroughly: The CPU can be overvolted like crazy and draw up to 120W and more easily when you use a 240W PSU, but that's not true for the GPU. The voltage supply simply isn't sufficient and you can't clock it as crazy as the CPU, even if the CPU is at stock.
In addition to this, when you overvolt and heavily overclock the CPU, the GPU can't clock up to 3d speeds anymore, the CPU simply seems to leech its power.

Just using a higher rated PSU normally won't allow all the parts to draw more power. All components (GPU, HDD, CPU, RAM ...) get their power from the mobo, it's not the same as in a desktop where you can separately plug in cables for voltage supply to each GPU.

Yes, a higher rated PSU will work clearly below it's limits and thus work more energy efficient, which can easily be verified if you look at the temp. The power loss of a 240W PSU working at 150W is nowhere as big as with a 150W PSU at the same operating point.

 

+1

@DH48 ignore your exams they dont matter...I mean good luck with your exams

 

This post is wrong on several areas

You seem to be under of lot misconceptions about power.

Feeding a device with a higher rated wattage doesn't mean more power is going into those devices. The power can only be used if the device can draw it.

Voltage is the same if its 19.5V its 19.5V at 100 watts or 19.5V at 200 watts. The change is Amps.

Those devices that can draw the extra available power will draw that power.

If you want an example. The LCD Inverter is the perfect example, you are dealing with high amps but low voltages enough amps to even kill you.

 

No they can't.
Your physical arguments are totally correct, and yes, I might not have been very accurate, but just plugging in a higher rated PSU does in no way solve the issues I just described...

No matter what, I can't make the GPU use more power with my board, but the CPU can be pushed like crazy... that's due to the circuit design of the mobo, a higher rated PSU won't help.


If you know how to solve this issue on my board I'll gladly buy you a couple of beers!

 

well, my g73jh right now benchmarking with the 940xm and the 6970m are having peaks of 215w (i got the tester for that), hows that posible if it is not designed for that? let me let you know these components (laptops etc etc) are made to work with specification that have to handle "upgrades" like these, many years before that was true, was imposible to make upgrades to laptops, thats not the true today with the sistems we have in our hands, but everyonebelieve what you want, we should open a new thread about that here we have to talk about the mods to the g73jh ok? btw fans@100% is a must, right now im really tired, just finished to install the new os with the ssd and all the drivers on it, tomorrow i will try the game we all wanna see working:bf3, good night guys, pictures tomorrow

 

Hi could you possibly post these benchmark results tonight?

We can hear a lot of talking but not a lot of information and that is what most of us have been waiting for nearly a year for if you really have a 940XM and 6970M running stable at 215watts as you claim and completing a benchmark test in a G73JH please show us the benchmark result and if possible HWINFO and Throttlestop of this to prove it works and the performance does not suffer.

Mucho Gracious!

 

They can.

I take it you are not in the EE or CE fields. That is fine.

There are so many misconceptions and pseudo science bring thrown about about power and what it really is. Doesn't help those who wish to understand the subject with so many varying takes on the subject when one doesn't know the subject properly.

I will keep it simple as possible.

Power is a fancy word that draws awe and scare for many. But they don't really know what it means.

Its just a energy conversion rate, a metric.

Instantaneous Power= I x V

I = Current in Amps
V = Voltage in Volts

Time variant ones are a little bit different. Mostly for resistors. P= I^2 x V

Its the I and V that mattes and how they play about in the device's functionality.

You are saying putting a higher rated PSU is not going to help a device draw more power if they can? That argument is already self contradictory.

If a device can draw the extra power, what is stopping it from drawing it? Only one thing, only the supply is stopping it, hence the need for higher rated PSU.

Next is the unexplainable fear that "putting a higher rated PSU is going to fry the device(s)."

The PSU is going to supply the say 19.5V, the PSU is rated for say 240 watts. So every device is going to get 19.5V at 240 watts and 11.67Amps? Nope, but going by your statement that just concludes this incorrect statement.

The motherboard also has break down lines along the way to various components, since the main feed is say 19.5V it has to be stepped down to 5V, 3.3V or 12V depending on the need.

You need to understand that logic devices don't control the Voltage supply once fed, they control the current 'I' based on the power conversion rates, So a device can be pulling 19.5V but if its only drawing 0.5amps is the power now at 240 watts? No absolutely not.

The same way the GPU if its on-board voltage controller is put at 1.2V the Current draw will change based on load, this means power is a function of the Amp its pulling. Not the Voltage.

So lets take the 6970M a single card. At stock clocks (680/900) at 1.1V is giving me a draw of 125 watts along with a highly power efficient sandy bridge. Overclock the card 800/1100) and the GPU voltage is still at 1.1V but the current draw just increased because it can pull that current. Now look at the formula, power went up. Power draw is at 163watts, remember the sandy bridge is an order of considerable magnitudes better than the XM CPUs at similar clocks.

In short devices that can pull the current will cause the higher rated PSU to be put to good use should your older one prove to be rated lower.

Now what will not help is if you are voltage limited on the GPU, say you are at 750/1000 best clocks on the GPU at 1.1V and power draw is 80 watts say for just the card. Putting a high watt PSU is not going to increase your clocks stability beyond 750mhz because you are limited on the GPU's set voltage at 1.1V. Totally unrelated to the need for the PSU in the first place. The needs comes from the fact that your older PSU is flaking out at the slightest overclocks on the GPU at its stock voltages.

When we are not even reaching the limits of the clocks at stock voltages thats when you need a higher PSU, because the card is ready to draw the extra amps but the PSU cant supply. Once you have reached your's card worth at that voltage any amount of extra PSU capability is pointless until you raise that 1.1V to 1.2 or whatever value you wish. This is even more true when you have tested your card on another system and know it can do much better clocks.

And look a few posts above I have already detailed MXM power limits. So putting in a better PSU for and overclocked XM CPU plus overclocked 6970M/6990M is infact a necessity.

Stock usage maybe be just a touch and go but no guarantees unless its well below 140 watts on total power conversion at the wall outlet.

So now you know you can not fry a device that's rated to pull only 1 amp at 2 volts, even if you had a supply that does 11Amps, 240 watts, it will only pull what it needs that is 1amp. Which is current while voltage stays the same 2 volts. Unless of course you force it to go to like 4 volts that may well fry it. But we are not doing that with this PSU mod in question. We are only giving the system the option to draw more amps should any of its components demand it.

But tales of frying of GPUs and CPUs when cooled properly is not due to the high voltage that you modded it to per-se, its due to electron migration, A totally different subject for another post

As long as you make sure your new PSU supplies the same voltage as the original one, everything is absolutely fine and safe. Leave the 'I' and 'P' factors to controlled by the motherboard's VRMs