*Official ASUS W90Vp Owners' Lounge*

Which is all the more reason to fill out the form at Asus and tell them of your frustration buying a $2300+ notebook that doesn't perform as advertised -- without going "under the hood" making changes even the tech reps wouldn't suggest you do .
Note * If it's possible to hurt/damage your computer flashing the BIOS to install the new drivers, it's needs to be posted that you will void your warranty in the process.

This forum is excellent, but it should not be the only option for consumers to get their notebooks working up to full performance. Complain to Asus.

Asus Support - Fill out form http://vip.asus.com/eservice/techserv.aspx


I already got a canned response back , from a rep that obviously didn't care what I wrote and they sent me a link to the current drivers installed on my laptop. So I responded with a complaint about the poor response that did not solve my issue. I have the time to do this.. Only takes a minute ;-)

 

ASSUS just better fix these issues before Crysis 2 comes out.
Sux that currently the only system that compares to the W90 costs ~$1000 more when configured similarly. Plus i still dont quite trust that Nvidia has fixed their burnup issues.

 

wonder if your E8435 would work in my m17

 

Strength in numbers, I just submitted my complaint regarding the outdated drivers. (takes two minutes)

 

any advice for packaging with the RMA? i am setting mine up to be shipped out tomorrow...

 

The video cards are marked as linked instead of crossfire. Is this really the intention or are the drivers holding things back? I'm afraid to flash the cards to do something they aren't designed to do.

As a sidenote, this thing is *huge* I've been using a 17" Dell Inspiron 9400 for the last several years, and this thing makes it look small. This is a good thing

 

When I ship a laptop, I use a box withing a box.....

Large box >> Penuts >> box >> Laptop

 

I ended up using the original packaging for my RMA, put the laptop in the backpack, put the ac adapter in the other thin box, and together they fit nicely into the original double box.

Did you request the RMA yet? They'll email you a FedEx shipping label which pays for overnight shipping to them so sending the big box won't cost you anything out-of-pocket.

 

Sure will...

 

hummmmmmmmm wonder how far i could OC

to bad no bios OC

 

I too have submitted several 'Technical Inquiries', regarding this and other issues. Many moons ago, ASUSNOTEBOOKTECH also wrote herein, that ASUS R&D was working on bios and driver support for us..... but NOTHING to date.

Sadly, I fear ASUS does not find us, or the W90, profitable enough to expend further manpower from it's R&D department..... but that is just my opinion. I have been here since the beginning, and though ASUS has been great with it's RMA support, I have seen NOTHING in support of the W90's bios (Quad support) or the HD4870 X2 drivers..... ergo, I see no reason to expect this anytime soon, and it's time for me to look harder at the competition.

I have no interest in AW's new Clevo M17, but the Clevo M980NU/Sager NP9850 will be here soon. If nVidia has managed to keep the newly designed 75w 280M's cool, I may go this route, vise the W90.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Hands-On-Clevo-M980NU-Notebook.14554.0.html

Pending testing and evaluation of this new Clevo/Sager, it's all a matter of, 'Can the M980NU/NP9850 make the grade'? If so, I have already purchased my QX9300, SSD, BR-Writer, etc., so transitioning to the Clevo/Sager will still be an affordable option for me.

Yes, competition can be a wonderful thing. We shall see!

Again, just my opinion....... and it is nice to have other options to consider.

 

I personally understand why & how everybody feels the way they do, but I think there are some simple facts not really being taken into full consideration.

First the QX9300 was never actually an officially supported cpu on the W90, but with great luck it works, on many (most) machines if you try an unsupported cpu it wont function at all. In this case your upset because you cant do a 1.5ghz overclock on it?

Even if it was a supported cpu they would have no reason to supply that kind of support for the cpu, overclocking is very much a DIY and at your own risk thing. We are lucky that they offer things like turbogear to do some minor overclocking for everybody.

Drivers, I have had several notebooks and I have seen with all of them that they come with one set of drivers and thats it. You never get more, I think even the most mass produced and highly supported notebooks like a Dell only get 1 or 2 gpu driver updates before they go EOL. This is why sites like laptopvideo2go exists.

I think nobody really ever made a big fuss as you could just download the drivers from said site and install them just as if they had come from the company your laptop came from, nobody is going to care if it was an offical driver or a 3rd party driver, just that it worked and was easy to use.

The W90 using this very unique hybrid crossfire setup though with a master/slave bios has no such option, a driver update on it is impossible currently without a work around that we discovered. The situation is the same as it is for all other laptops, you should expect the drivers you had upon release and that is all. But we were lucky to find a way around it for newer drivers. Just this time around its no simple driver download that has been modified, you have to modify the bios of the cards too.

This is actually not hard, its easy just take the time and read the instructions I had put together and its over before you know it, however it does carry a risk and should not be done unless you have reason to. I am going to produce a new guide that is even easier to follow and safer to use (id call it 99.9999999999999% fail safe) but I cant just produce it out of thin air right away I need to find the time to put it together and currently all my free time is occupied by work and family.

I really like the W90 its the best laptop I have ever owned and plan to keep it for a long time, nobody has anything even close to this for even close to this price range. If you want to spend $1000 more for the Clevo or something in hopes that it performs as good or better with none of the hassles I only hope it does as you expect, but as with any new tech there is a risk for issues/problems and the first ones to adopt that new tech are taking a risk.

 

no offense to yall but its like your notebooks
and the whitebooks in a way. Every laptop has issues

 

Well, guys it has been fun, but I have exhausted all my patience on this machine. Incase you havent seen my prior posts: I got a W90 on 4/18 and unfortunately had to RMA for graphics issues. I am in Iraq atm so I had to pay $150.00 shipping both ways with insurance. I finally got it back last week, yes shipping is that slow to here. It wouldnt even boot. So instead of paying another $150.00 and waiting another month which I do not have atm to get this thing back working I decided to put faith that they fixed the GPU issue and opened the thing up and found and fixed a short. Of course to get to it I had to void my warretny anyway. Well after this it was working well with m/m setup, then out of the blue I started up a game and had glitches even worse than before. It wasnt just 2D gliches it was texture flickers all over the place. So I turned A.I. off and bam worked fine. So yet again I have this stupid crossfire issue! I am done with this laptop. I am pulling out the second card and selling it to a friend for 1800 as a non crossfire setup. A couple of thoughts about this computer. I cant stand ATI, this was my first ATI computer and there isnt any driver support whereas NVIDIA now puts out their own mobile drivers at the same time as Desktop drivers. The NVIDIA Control panel is way easier to use than the CCC. Who designs a GPU solution with this amount of power on this resolution and then chokes it to death with 512MB VRAM? I prefer using my 1100 dollar FX and getting 10 FPS less but not having texture delays all over the place. I will admit that this is a nice looking computer and that Asus support is good, but there is no excuse for releasing a laptop that doesnt work. Can you honsetly tell me that Asus didnt test this thing out and realize the GPU issues? Im just venting. Im totaly done with this thing. It was nice chatting with you all and good luck

 

Its not ATIs fault that THEIR drivers dont work on the ASUS because how Asus has the system set up. How the hell can you blame ATI for that ? Since it cam out Cat 9.0-9.6 has came out and none have worked. Now when Asus has to make Custom driver to make it work i blame Asus.

To get any driver to work you have to mod it to go around Asus retarded design or what ever. Yes i do understand you have to mob mod which does suck but at least they work. ATI is not bad they offer great cards at a great price. What you got was a notebook with known GPU defects and driver issues. ATI did not make these cards Asus did on its own. Ati's plan for the 4870's was alwayds to have ddr5 and higher clocks

 

not yet... but i will tomorrow.. interesting poll though, how many of you use ie?? i'm wondering if this white screen of death is ie related??

and thanks, i was planning on doing that too... i was just making sure putting it in the bag and all that crap wasn't over kill when i could just ship them the lappy.. also, what do i tell asus via tele? do i just tell them i have a problem and they inspect? or should i tell them i think the video cards are suspect, and they should prolly be replaced??

 

I can blame ATI for not having good software and allowing Asus to buid these cards. Asus cant just make whatever the hell they want and call it a 4870 they have to get a design approved. AIT should have been aware of the oddness of this design and if they werent up to the task of releasing drivers for it then they souldnt let it be built. Yes I can hold them to this standard since thier competition now releases notebook and desktop drivers at the same time and every notebook Ive used nvidias drivers on have worked excelently. I made a mistake in my ignorance. I wasnt aware that advertising 1GB or VRAM was really 512MB and I cant blame them for me buying it but I can blame them for letting it get branded that way.

 

fair enough ....

The point is Asus manufactured these card them self and ATI did let them but it was always from the beginning that the 4870's were going to be ddr5. These cards are 4850's with over clocks( sorry Asus owners).

its a mistake on both parts but its no worse then Nvidia and their jacking the price up and Overheating GPU's. ATI driver support has been getting better, When you don't need a full mod to install a driver you would know. My Whitebooks game performance is like 20% better since i bought it.

 

Yeah it's definitely not IE to blame. I had the same problem with Opera on the same pages that would cause me to bomb. ><

I didn't hear from Asus today.... :cry:

 

I will agree with you the NVIDIA is very "Intel" like with their prices, if you know what I mean. I have heard about overheating GPU's but I have never experienced them myslef so can you blame me for trusting Nvidia? I really like ATI because they keep Nvidia "honest" and hope they get better. But I have just had too many issues all at once with this machine and cannot take anymore.

 

Given my above post to defend the case of the QX9300 & Drivers, I have nothing to defend when it comes to the 2D graphics issues.

This is a case of bad design, or bad cards.

I do think a properly working computer should pass that 2D burn-in test and have asked Ken to see if he can pull any strings with Asus to do two things.

1.) Start shipping the units with Master/Master bios, we have confirmed it works fine, exactly as it does with Master/Slave but it allows use of new drivers. This will really make life better for those who want new drivers but do not want to mess with the card bios.

2.) Make them aware of the 2D test and ask them to run it, if it crashes they know the unit is not working right and they need to find a solution.

Everybody here that wants to send complaints/suggestions should probably try to send the same two things.

 

exactly its not ATI's fault

Asus made the cards
Asus made the drivers
Asus made the notebook

Asus has been your problem. I am not knocking Asus they are still # 2 in my book. I am just saying your blame on ATI is a little off.


I am not trying to troll here guys sorry

 

Im confused then, did you just agree with me and then change your mind? Well, I dont want to eat up the forum with arguing. Im just at my end with this thing. Ill probably be back in every once and again to see how things are develpoing. Good luck all/

 

ahhh my mind is crazy its Asus's fault for the issues on the notebook thats my verdict

 

I am going to be getting the w90 soon, is there something I should do? or just use until I find a problem (if an older game deosnt' run etc). I would rather not flash the bios of the cards, but if it's just a switch like slave to master setting, that is not too hard/won't runa risk at hurtign the computer.

 

You dont have to do anything on the hardware level its all software and just takes a few minutes.

You may have no reason to do it, most games max out fine, the only game I know of currently that got better fps was world of warcraft and I still have not tested myself to confirm.

quadzilla had a few games he said were much better with the new drivers.

flashing the cards is going to be so easy and fail proof soon, i have a few more tests to run then when all is said and done I will have directions on how to do it with ATI Flash with a usb, or Ken is going to make me a bootable cd/dvd .iso also for those that do not have a usb flash drive.

 

Yeah, Ken helped roll back the vbios today... The bootable disc is a huge +++, and is very simple..

I'm going to request an RMA from Asus tomorrow... is there any special requests that I should ask for Vicious?

Also, I was wondering... have you had any issues with 2d graphics since you got your RMA back Vic?


EDIT: I was also wondering, isn't Asus potentially losing a lot of profit due to all these RMAs?? It seems like some people have had their unit RMA'd a few times, and if parts were replaced each time... that seriously adds up, big time.. I feel sort of beta tested by Asus, but I suppose they are kicking themselves in the butt for not discovering these issues sooner. I wonder what they would've done if they knew about all these issues prior to releaase? I wonder if they would've set back the release date, or not released it at all...

 

they would of fixed it

or pulled a AW and kept replaceing them instead or a slight redesign

 

I'm just saying, those video cards aren't cheap!! Lol, I'm just suprised Asus conducts business like this... I mean, they probably fired the dude who engineered this thing, haaha.

But in all seriousness, I am very happy with my w90.. I will probably stick with it 100%... It just sucks that there are these setbacks..

Also, on a side note.. does Asus do replacement upgrades? For instance, say they cancel production of the w90 in a year, and my lappy has a problem, so I RMA it - does Asus just fix the old unit, or give a new model with similar specs/value?

 

depends on the unit

...

if they have parts ...etc

 

Well no issues for me yet, I cant pass that 2D test but the flicker I had before in game menus is not there anymore.

My theory is that my new cards/system are more stable than the last, meaning it can handle the 2d load I put on it while under normal use, but the fact it cant pass that test means its not "fully stable"

This is the same way as how I can overclock my cpu to 2.9ghz and it would run all day, but if I tried to encode a video that maxes out all 4 cores for 15 minutes it would crash.

In the overclocking world we are familiar with what "stable" means. So to that extent I thin the W90 cards (atleast the two I have had) are not fully stable and why there are times that something can trip up the cards and cause a crash. Its obviously in the 2d or low3d clocks. I actully thing its low 3d not 2d. As the game menu flicker and stuff is low3d, also in Vista we should be using low 3d due to the Aero being on, if you turn it OFF you should be in 2d mode. If somebody is having crash issues infact I recommend trying this, it may just fix it for you.

I think internet is the place most crashes happen due to things like flash animations.

As for your RMA, send it out as a DoA so you get a new unit and see if you can tell them specifically "please test my unit with this 2d test and if it cant pass then find me one that can"

Id say more but I fell behind at work some tonight I probably wont have any more time to talk tonight.

 

So if you are right, that means that the w90 could always have an issue, right?

Did Asus end up replacing your whole unit, or just some parts...? I'm interested into how more stable it would be, as my lappy was apart of the newer batches..

What is DoA? I'm sorry, i'm not familiar with that term...

Should I try turning Vista into 2d mode, or is it just a lost cause?

I'm interested into what more you have to say about the matter... As I take what Ken and you have to say under serious consideration... but I understand your workload, so would it be possible, when you have the time to send me a PM about it?

 

I feel I am taking into consideration some things I am not being given credit for here..... like a new notebook, with new technologies not seen in any other notebook, here to date. A notebook with cutting edge ATI HD4870 cards, and a first time ever, X38 desktop chipset motherboard and socket that clearly supports the QX9300 processor...... and just two days prior to it's release, was promoted by ASUS Marketing with said processor. As a matter of fact, ASUS still takes pride in this, as they recently demonstrated in the following announcement:

(Interestly enough, I linked this official ASUS News on Page#1, and now the ASUS link does not work.... but it can still be found in a web search.)

The release of the W90 was undoubted hurried, and irregardless of a bad production of video cards, ASUS has provided poor drivers for these new cards from the beginning. This has been the #1 complaint in this thread, and one would think giving the debut of the 4870 cards, ASUS would want to get this right. But no, the original drivers appear just as hurried, and to date ASUS has done nothing, in spite of all the complaints.

Also, regarding the QX9300, this processor is in fact 'officially' on ASUS's list for support of the W90..... they just simply are not providing that support. At the time of the W90 release, ASUS R&D had not developed a safe voltage threshold for the QX9300. I believe ASUSNOTEBOOKTECH also alluded that their R&D was looking into this. Also, the A1 was announced with a QX9300 option from the beginning. One would think by now, months later, that ASUS's R&D would have developed a safe voltage threshold for the QX9300, and that this would be reflected in a bios and TurboGear update. I do not desire nor expect to OC to unsafe limits, but I do expect to gain significantly in performance, when opting for a QX9300 processor...... ESPECIALLY, given how ASUS has marketed and hyped the product. To me, a 5% OC in TurboGear is laughable, and barely begins to stress the SAFE limits of this processor.

Futhermore. I am not into spending thousands of dollars, only buying into problems. I have already been through two W90's which had to be RMA'ed, and my third, I sold. I have been here all along, observing, and still seeing the same issues, over and over again. Forgive my reluctance to jump into the fire again. I simply feel it wise to step back for a moment, and look at the alternatives here.

Funny, given that ASUS has been so much about OC'ing..... and they now tout the 'Guinness World Records' Fastest Notebook', as a QX9300 W90 owner, I would not feel so lucky right now..... I'd be a little miffed.

Funny again, you mention laptopvideo2go..... which is primarily nVidia support, and nVidia releases monthly Unified drivers. Somehow, I bet mobility driver updates for the 280M cards will be more forthcoming, and I also bet for the QX9300, the Clevo/Sager bios will not be limited in the same way, as ASUS has done.

Sorry to make such a fuss here, and normally I would agree with you on this point..... but given this was a new release with new technologies, I feel ASUS dropped the ball here. The drivers were immature from the beginning, like a hurried project. Sorry, but I expected ASUS to deliver as advertised, and I was abundantly patient awaiting a fix...... and it never came!

Vicious, I think everyone here, can applaud your efforts, and those of Quadzilla, and E-Wrecked..... but I disagree with you here on a couple of points:

1.) Again, if I am spending thousands of dollars here, I DO NOT expect to have to fix it..... strait out of the box, to get it to work as advertised. Quite simply, I expect those 15K marks, I expect it to game, and I expect it to do so without issues. If I have issues, I expect ASUS to FIX it, and do so in a timely manner. I should not have to fix it, or rely on the enthusiast community to develop a 'work-around'.

(Though I realize this is common practice, and perhaps the enthusiast community has create this monster, allowing the OEM's to be lazy.)

2. Also, the 'work-around' that has been devised here, I am still uncertain this is the correct course of action. Though several of you have 'jumped me' here, I am still reluctant to flash the slave card to Master, because I do not feel this within ASUS's design intention for the ATI HD4870 X2. I have seen a myriad of speculation here, 'why' the two cards should be flashed Master/Master, but I have seen NOTHING official providing credence to this premise..... NOTHING! All I have seen is the presumptions that ASUS R&D, and their partner ATI, know nothing of what they are doing. Sorry folks, but this is hard to swallow here, and I would like to see what ASUS says of this. Just because positive benchmarks have resulted, I am unconvinced this makes flashing the cards RIGHT!

3. I totally disagree that " a driver update on it is impossible currently without a work around that we discovered". Yes, ASUS provided the cards as Master and Slave, and they also provided an antiquated, but somewhat working driver..... and I believe ASUS CAN and SHOULD update this driver. This is not 'impossible', and ASUS should have at least provided a current driver on the W90's release..... and under the current climate, they should provide an immediate update.

I am happy you have found the best laptop for you..... I am just hoping not to inherit continued issues or disappointments, before laying down my hard earned dollars again.

No one can disagree that the W90 is great value for the technology. Perhaps this is part of the problem..... in the issues we've seen here.... perhaps TOO slim of a profit margin.

We can banter the 'Pros & Cons' of each notebook till the cows come home..... but, I am an ASUS customer..... have been for many years, and in this instance, ASUS has failed me miserably in the whole W90 experience.

And YES, the problems and risk of being an 'early adopter'..... Hmmmm, now I wouldn't know anything of this, would I? I can promise you this..... been there, done that..... not gonna do it again! Yes, I expect to pay more for the Clevo/Sager, and if the Clevo/Sager evaluates & test well, I'd rather spend the money on something that meets my expectations, and performs as advertised. At least the Clevo will be more customizable, and will be available in a 'bare-bones' option. Without a doubt, the M980NU/NP9850 is going to give the W90 a REAL performance challenge.... and with an unlocked bios, perhaps another 'Guinness World Record'.

Edit: LOL, just had another thought to add..... I'll bet AW goes for the next Guinness Record.... makes it, but then locks their new M17's bios too!

Again, just my thoughts, and WE SHALL SEE!

 

Oddly enough, Ken agrees that ASUS had a design intention or reason for the Master/Slave configuration.

 

D.O.A.= Dead On Arrival

When you call ASUS requesting an RMA, it will be at the discretion of the Tech, if it will be a repair, or a DOA Replacement.

Yes, I would discuss the matter with Ken first.

 

So I tell them my unit was DOA? meaning the cards always acted like that, right?

 

I think Vicious was telling you to seek a DOA Replacement from ASUS. What I was telling you, is it will be up to the ASUS technician's discretion, whether your case be handled as a RMA Repair, or an RMA DOA Replacement. This decision is determined on a case-by-case basis.

 

I agree too, but the only reason I can think of is to create a "mobile 4870X2" rather than if it was master/master then it would have been "two 4870's in crossfire"

Somewhere somehow somebody made the decision that a 4870X2 sounded better and the ball rolled from there is my guess.

 

Well, I think i'm going to request it.. I've gotten a few BSOD, too.. so I am going to tell them that, too.

Anything I could say that would sway them for a replacement vs. a repair??

 

Again, I would discuss it again with Ken, prior to calling ASUS for the RMA. By all means, DEMAND a DOA Replacement..... I just felt you should know, it will be up to the technician's discretion, how your case is handled.

Good Luck Bro, and sorry to see these RMA's continuing! Keep us posted!

 

Is it possible easily to remove the processor from the motherboard and just put another (faster) one there in place? In case it is, which processor (CPU) is than the most suitable one?
Can somebody give me some feedback, please? I do not enough experience/knowledge about that. Thanks in advance!

 

Yes, it is a very simple process, and easily researched regarding procedure, but do carefully evaluate your needs, expectations, and warranty. You can upgrade to the QX9300, but it is costly, and will void your ASUS warranty (there is a warranty void sticker on the processor). If you have this done by an authorized ASUS reseller, they will provide you warranty for the processor, and ASUS will cover the rest of the machine.

Also, ASUS currently has the bios locked limiting voltage to the QX9300. This has me miffed at present, so I now question the value in this choice for the W90. TurboGear will only allow a 5% OC, and if you desire to go further, this has to be done with SetFSB.

 

Best advice...DONT get the W90...yes I am a W90 owner and advising you NOT to get this. ASUS has basically told us to fsck off and well as for the resellers, I have my opinion and others have theirs.

 

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/332/oddz.jpg

very odd.. the keyboard all of a sudden stopped working, and everytime i try to move, chinese letters pop off.

 

Hmmm, the O'l Chinese characters again..... LOL! I think the last user experiencing this problem, did an F9 restore and this resolved the issue.

 

Hey there, I've been out a while, I see you got your W90 and already going for a services ? May I ask you, Is it just because of 2D test not running? thanks. Mine is coming on Monday and I was expecting no problems. I means serious problems, I wouldn't RMA just because of tests not running but because of games not running, or a card not working.

 

I've been following all along and I never bought one, waiting for a few projects I'm spending $ on to be finished, and hoping that the W90 issues would clear up. I think I'm bailing altogether on this unit now though. Even though I'm tech savvy and have built plenty of desktop and small form factor systems, I don't think I should have to "jimmy" a $2300 system and still be left with glitches and inadequate drivers... words from a popular game I play might apply like "its nerfed", and perhaps even "your class is broken".

I hope all the owners get their issues "patched".. and worked out in the long run. Its not looking like any time soon to me unfortunately.

I enjoy following this thread and everyone has been very cool in this little "community". I'll still keep tabs on this thread, and if I haven't bought some other model/brand before then, perhaps I'll revisit the W90 or other "flagship" asus gaming DTR by xmas.

 

I'm also getting mine on monday I already got a avermedia nano express HDTV turner. I wish it would come with a TV turner inside already sinse it has the internal antenna port.

 

Im in a very similar position as striker with the qx9300. If asus is going to advertise the 20000 3dmark06 score then they should let the enthusiast achieve that to. The qx9300 is support by this chipset and motherboard after all its a desktop board crammed into a laptop case with mobile gpus (which are TERRIBLY bottle necked by the 512vram - i still regret my purchase because of that). Theres no reason why it should have taken this long to get a bios with the proper quadcore voltage. At this point i dont even care for moddable voltage, just get me the same voltage as my STOCK dual core cpu did.

For now this notebook serves me alright and plays what i want to play. However i say alright because this notebook is gimped by the 512 vram, the stuttering gets unbearable when im trying to play a game and even though im getting 40-60 fps its unacceptable that everytime i move 3 feet i get a dip in fps while textures load.

A friend brought over his np8662 with 260m and 1gb of ram blew my w90 out of the water when playing crysis on high (mind you the screen res is only 1680x1050). No stuttering when he played, just smooth and silky how it should be. Really really puts a downer on the w90.

When i get back from overseas i will probably put an attempt in to sell this notebook and find something that can take advantage of the qx9300 because i just feel so cheated by the lack of overclocking and the poor gpu design choice.

 

hummm, i tried pointing all this stuff out about 150 pages ago (50 post per page)
and asus is not the only one.. this happen with the ocz whitebook as well...
(just pointing out the obvious)

so far, both attempts at making a dual card ati solution have presented it's users with a lot of hassles and problems. sure..they do perform decent, but come on now...not everyone is in to working on brand new machines then having to rma them...me..i don't mind, because i have lots of other machines to keep me busy and all...but to those that scraped up 2500 bucks for a laptop only to see it more in rma than in the users hands is really not to promising...
although i like the fact that they (4870's) are showing promise now, but to what expense to the end user? and of course there are some good working units out there, but there are for more partial working ones.(just stating what has been seen here and every where else other than in the advertising adds)

it leads one to believe that maybe coding the bios for ati support is a bit more difficult than they all anticipated... but then on the desktop platform..they are running like champs!(really don't understand that)

did yours stutter when running at 1680x1050?