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    *** XPS 15 7590 Owners Lounge ***

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by Spartan@HIDevolution, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Worth picking up an OLED model with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD for $1,200 out the door?
     
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  2. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    That is a decent price for the i7 on the outlet. But the SSD and RAM are the absolute smallest I would consider to be frank.

    Note there may be some unresolved DPC latency issues that you should research.

    I don't know how this tiny chassis that struggled with 4 core Skylake processors will deal with thermal throttling of the faster higher core count CPUs (actually I do lol).
     
  3. hb720x

    hb720x Notebook Guru

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    That's a good price for sure. I second that more RAM and a larger SSD would be great to have. Odd that gaming laptops like the Razer Blade 15 have 256 GB SSD configs, given how large games are getting nowadays.

    I recently picked up a FHD model with 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB SSD for the equivalent of $1300 USD. It was significantly cheaper than a similarly configured Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 or P1 Gen 2. I was even considering the Apple Macbook Pro 16, but everything being soldered on to the motherboard, being a lifelong Windows user, and double the price for similar specs ultimately turned me away. If I had a specific use case for Mac OS, the calculation would be different, however.

    Maybe the future XPS 15 model follows the Alienware M15R2 and solders the RAM and WiFi card. Dell appears to be going in that direction.

    Has anyone already installed the newly released bios 1.5.0?
     
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  4. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw Big time Idiot

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    I agree, the same for me. Intel drivers from Dell (I have no choice in the matter anyways). Nvidia drivers from Nvidia.


    Intel is backwards, allowing OEMs to control the already poor Intel IGP drivers (always losing my settings, if the settings ever stick). Nvidia forced control away from OEMs starting in 2008 or so, AMD finally stepped up to the plate in 2019. Intel is the odd one out - please keep this in mind when Intel starts pushing their graphics products.
     
  5. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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  6. improwise

    improwise Notebook Deity

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    So, haven't really looked to much into the latest Dell XPS15 problems but decided to start LatencyMon today on my 7590 and it was just red all over. Is the dream of a XP15 without DPC problem now dead again?
     
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  7. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    You tested the new bios and same or even worse problems? If tested... Does Undervolt works?

    You get a new chance with next model which will replace this model probably this year after Intel has pushed out new chips :D
     
  8. improwise

    improwise Notebook Deity

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    No, I decided to wait on installing that based on some posts here :)
     
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  9. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw Big time Idiot

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    It could be worse, mine has been bluescreening over DPC WATCHDOG VIOLATIONs. Looking to make another clean install, in hope of blindly resolving this issue.
     
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  10. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    I used a skeleton nVidia driver install using O&O. And block auto updates. And did a recent clean install.

    Those slightly helped DPC latency on my 9550 (took Dell over a year to sort out most DPC latency issues so the 9550 is pretty good. I read the 9570 has more niggles, unfortunately).
     
  11. Techland

    Techland Notebook Consultant

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    Hi Pressing, yes, the 9550 has an acceptable DPC latency for quite some time. And I even don't use tricks like manual SpeedShift activation anymore. It works ok right as it is.

    But it's getting old so I got me the 7590 with OLED screen half a year ago. My first tests showed a bit worse latency, but no serious problem. That has changed dramatically at an unknown point in time. As improwise said it is now unusable for audio. The biggest offender is ACPI.sys, and most probably it has something do to (as usual) with power supply and battery. Example: when I plug and unplug the Dell power supply, with the 9550 nothing happens, with the 7590 the notebook stalls for up to 14 milliseconds. Typical DPCs are between 2 ms and 6 ms in normal use, with LatMon quickly throwing a warning, which has definitely not been the case when I bought it. Dell fully ruined this notebook for me.

    Of course, all the tricks known to help (sometimes) don't change anything. I bet it's the BIOS that is responsible and needs to be updated.
     
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  12. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw Big time Idiot

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    I thought I was going crazy.

    I've reinstalled Win10 two times now (along with jaunts to see if Manjaro, Arch, or Ubuntu could replace my Windows-heavy work); the latter Win10 attempt with complete isolation from the internet and DDU disabling all driver updates, since Dell + MSFT teamed up to force junk onto my PC via Windows Update (namely, WavesMaxx Audio and Killer extension - even if I never had a Killer card inserted in this PC for this OS install).

    When I clean boot my PC, everything is fine (mostly).

    However, if it is unplugged, put into standby, then woken out of standby, problems with DPC start occurring. At this point, plugging/unplugging power (DC jack and USB-C are affected) will cause any currently playing audio to stutter for 0.5 to 2 seconds. Any application that opens the Nvidia GPU will cause the stutter to go on for several seconds. Sometimes, it will pass the stuttering and life returns to normal (the mouse input is sometimes frozen at this time), but most often, it will bluescreen.

    Wiping WavesMaxx audio from the drivers helped a bit (the stuttering duration is shortened, and it seems BSOD is less frequent). Windows blames either DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION (with no explanation) or or VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE blaming Nvidia nvlddmkm.sys.

    However, I am still unsuccessful in preventing BSODs. Older images of this laptop under WIn10 1809 (factory image - I made a copy the moment I got the laptop) still present this issue. Older versions of Nvidia drivers (from November - when I last remember this laptop being stable; I did leave it alone and brought my reliable Thinkpad X1C6 when visiting family over Christmas/NewYears) are still under testing, but the short audio stuttering is still occurring when plugging/unplugging USB-C power (have not tested DC barrel jack yet) [EDIT: testing done. Crashes still can be reliably triggered under the conditions in listed in "paragraph" 3].

    At this point, the main difference is BIOS. I stupidly updated to the latest BIOS sometime after I got back home in January, so I am going to see if I can revert that and rerun all of the testing again. I also allowed Intel ME to update during this time, and I am reasonably certain the device firmware is not reliably downloadable.

    I am spending more of my work & free time on my X1C6 (oN ArCH, BTw /s). I should note, the MaxxAudio Waves junkware did not cause audio stutters and issues in the past, so something is up. Just like my last two Dells, I am spending more time diagnosing issues than I ever did for my VAIOs and Thinkpads.

    If all this fails to garner positive results, then maybe this is a weird dGPU related failure, so I'll probably try out my TB3 dGPU dock to see if that causes problems (though the dock itself caused a lot of usage problems with my X1C6 - a bit part of why I purchased this laptop to resume my workflow).

    If all that fails, too, I can still use this as a "desktop." Shut down and reboot instead of standby. Basically rendering the "laptop" part mostly useless for me.

    Either way, this laptop, and Dell as an entity, are pretty close to getting a hard no/never from me. I don't know why I thought their good service on my first laptop was worth any amount of loyalty - we on NBR forums had to threaten a class action lawsuit for the busted M11x hinges before Dell actually sent out replacement parts and service. Sure, the technician was great, but I don't know why my silly brain thought that entire relationship was ever a net positive in any way.
     
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  13. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    Lenovo seem to have a serious issue with many laptop Thunderbolt controllers.

    [EDIT- This seems like the controller has a firmware bug per @maffle 's post below]. This can impact USB, HDMI ports, unfortunately. Not sure if the problem gets worse overtime. Potential fixes are firmware patches, flash EEPROM, replace motherboard.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Think...t-s-happening-and-how-to-fix-it.451207.0.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  14. maffle

    maffle Notebook Evangelist

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    @pressing The issue wasnt overheating but a bug in the firmware of all Lenovo laptops causing a permanent write access to the Thunderbolt firmware chip, which has just limited write cycles. After a random high amount of write cycles, the TB firmware chip would fail resulting in TB becoming broken and not working anymore. I hope Dell hasnt a similar bug in their laptops.
     
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  15. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw Big time Idiot

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    Thanks for bringing this up. On the X1C6, the problem is being blamed on the version 43 NVM firmware for the TB3 controller, afaik.
    Mostly out of curiosity, I updated it to NVM 44 sometime in July-October 2019, by using the firmware from another TB3 laptop with the same 15D9 controller. This was a last ditch attempt to see if the TB3 eGPU dock would actually stop causing the TB3 controller to connect/disconnect cycle after being hot unplugged. The cycling would be present across reboots and would prevent the USB-C ports from charging the laptop (and the USB-C ports were the only way to charge the laptop). The only resolution was to pull the battery power and reset the laptop that way. There is a reset hole on the bottom of the Thinkpad X1C6 for this purpose.

    I eventually abandoned the eGPU idea altogether, and moved onto my current XPS 7590.

    Other than TB3, which I never used outside of the dock), the X1C6 has been pretty good to me. I suppose that is a consideration to be had - is my frustration with the XPS 15 causing me to view my X1C6 overly favorably?

    Reverting the XPS 15 7590 BIOS to 1.4.0 (December 2019) and 1.3.3 (October 2019) did not resolve anything, even across Nvidia driver versions. Restoring the original Dell OS configuration and software has not helped, either.

    At the moment, it appears VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE could also be indicative of a failing dGPU.

    I'll try the eGPU sometime later. Hopefully the Dell TB3 port is a bit less annoying than the Thinkpad TB3 ports.
     
  16. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw Big time Idiot

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    EDIT: TL;DR update. dGPU is most likely dying.
    EDIT2: after running Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery two times with different wifi cards, I've found Intel's AX200 is supported by the SA OS Recovery tool, but the Killer AX1650 isn't. Great, Dell. More reasons to dislike the Killer junk.


    Terms:
    eGPU: external GPU, inside of TB3 dock. Lenovo Graphics Dock (TB3, GTX 1050).
    dGPU: dedicated GPU. inside of laptop. GTX 1650.



    eGPU is not exhibiting either crash symptom under the conditions I could test it in:
    Power plugged into eGPU dock. Cold boot. Standby cycle (closest I could do, since the eGPU dock was preventing the laptop from actually entering standby - I had to unplug the dock before putting the system into standby).



    No more audio stuttering, either (this is with WavesMaxx audio installed, since I am now on a nearly-stock Dell XPS 15 7590 OS image, the major change being WU forced driver updates and the latest Nvidia GPU driver).

    I think one of a few remaining options is a dying dGPU.

    I'll continue testing with the dGPU disabled (in Device Manager) and no eGPU, to see if the symptoms present themselves again, or if the symptoms do not return.

    I have noticed the eGPU is better behaved on this system than my X1C6 (back when it was running Win 10 1804, 1809, then 1904) - the drivers don't disappear and fully reinstall themselves everytime I unplug-->plug in the dock.

    Barring any further information, I will have to ask for my second motherboard replacement from Dell, for this laptop.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  17. surfict

    surfict Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hello,

    I'am hesitating to the screen I should choose on this Dell between the UHD OLED, the UHD LDC, and the UHD tactile.

    My two majors concerns are the eyestrain that could happen with the OLED panel (Do you guys fell a difference compare to your previous laptop without OLED) ? and the reflections as I will often work outside, with the sun. Would you have some input about the reflections on each panel ?
     
  18. improwise

    improwise Notebook Deity

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    So, is the new BIOS still a no go? Don't really do that much undervolting etc but the thought of crippling the laptop itself has me hesitating. And of course Dells trackrecord with BIOS updates...
     
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  19. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    I just got a Dell XPS 15 7590 (specs in sig) and I was wondering, is this 4K touch screen the OLED screen? it says IPS in the specs so I'm not sure
     
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  20. guho

    guho Notebook Consultant

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    The OLED is non-touch on this laptop.

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  21. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    Nice catch, mine is not OLED as you mentioned after checking the available panels on Dell's site:

    • 15.6-inch, 4K UHD (3840 X 2160) OLED, Anti-Reflective, InfinityEdge, Non-Touch, 100% DCI-P3, 350 nits brightness, 100,000:1 contrast ratio
    • 15.6-inch, UltraSharp 4K UHD (3840 X 2160), Anti-Reflective, InfinityEdge, Touch, 100 % minimum AdobeRGB, 500 nits brightness, 1500:1 contrast ratio
    • 15.6-inch FHD (1920 x 1080) Anti-Glare, InfinityEdge, Non-Touch, 100% sRGB, 500 nits brightness, 1200:1 contrast ratio
     
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  22. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Your old thread :)
    How does anyone in his right mind buy a 4K screen laptop?
    upload_2020-2-20_7-38-58.png
     
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  23. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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  24. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    About to receive an outlet sourced 7590 - so despite all the kerfluffle early in this thread - sounds like the 7590 is decent overall upgrade with VRM cooling, and better BIOS to make it actually able to play some modern games at medium? I also see it may have a PCM thermal pad by default?

    A lot of early reviews seem to basically say “it’s the same as last year” - but it does seem refined and operating more consistently. I get that the CPU throttles - I’m basically seeing this in every damn “thin and light” I’ve tried, including gaming focused machines. I’m not worried about max performance - I’ve got a 9700K beast desktop, but am moving soon and will need a portable machine that can still handle mixed use well enough. My budget was limited to 1K, so I grabbed an i7 FHD model off the outlet with the 14% off coupon. I really don’t want to spend more than 1K and I didn’t see anything else remotely close to the XPS15 form, fit, function with a high end bright screen at this price point. Closest would be the ugly Helios 300, which is an awesome performance focused machine, but it is not in any way lean light and nice looking.

    Is there any other $1K machine that can match the XPS15 for performance with a side of medium-setting games?
     
  25. guho

    guho Notebook Consultant

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    What makes this machine special is the availability of OLED 4k (still not many notebooks offer this and Apple has no OLED notebooks at all still ), as well as the thin bezels. The performance is good and the fingerprint reader is great addition in this generation.

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
     
  26. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Phew, a response! Pretty quiet in this owner’s forum.

    At 1.5K, the competition is pretty stiff now-a-days. Aero 15 OLED at 1499+tax would probably be a tough choice - and still could probably get the OLED XPS15 refurb for way less (or UHD touch).

    Closest option would be refurb Alienware, but tradeoffs exist. You gain a significantly more powerful GPU, but lose size, portability, and form (I.e., uglier gamer design). I also like the USB-C charging option, even if that forces the XPS15 to power throttle to some degree. I’m also not a fan of RGB keyboards - while fun in short stints to mess with the lights, I ultimately want the lights to come on when I type, and shut off when I’m not typing.

    So at $1K (after tax), I don’t think anything can touch an XPS15 for performance, especially with a 50W 1650 GPU in it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  27. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    I think $1k for the i7 newest model is pretty good deal.

    The 7590 is not appropriate for my usage (principally pro audio work). This chassis is at the end of 4 generations so is getting long on the tooth, there are some DPC/ driver issues, and so-so thermals/power delivery. For just basic daily tasks it can be a nice laptop.
     
  28. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Basic daily tasks? That’s a helluva simplification for this machine. Plenty of sub 700 dollar machines out there can handle that - this is quite a bit more capable and with a decent GPU to boot.

    I can appreciate it does NOT provide a great latency environment for pro audio work though. But this machine is going to be fairly capable for some more demanding work if needed. I’ll probably use it for the basics, productivity, 3d print work, and may get into some solidworks in the future. That and of course playing some of the backlog game library.
     
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  29. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    The challenge is that the tiny chassis just doesn't provide much cooling capacity or power delivery.

    It struggled with the 4 core 6th gen Skylake CPU, particularly when GPU kicked in.

    For more intensive tasks, it just can't run the fast 6 core 9th gen CPU and CPU at full "specs" and needs to throttle. Just because the CPU can hit 4.5GHz does not mean that it will run near there for more than a few seconds. A lot of the laptops play the same marketing game.

    In some countries you can return a refurb laptop after a short period of time; if so, you could try the XPS for your tasks, and it might work great.

    Some of us saw good performance boost with a repaste of the CPU and GPU.

    Intel is locking out undervolting for "security". Undervolting gave me a huge performance boost on my XPS laptops. Going forward we likely will lose undervolting so assume that when you do your testing.

    Good luck!
     
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  30. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Interesting - can I run an older BIOS and still undervolt? As far as I saw, 1.2.3, was the only update necessary to ensure the GPU doesn’t throttle to 300Mhz for more consistent game performance?

    Also interesting that Intel is doing this, so are they going to discontinue developing XTU software?!

    I am also aware about the situation with having an H class CPU reach into it’s turbo for sustained loads - I’ve seen some mixed stuff, principally Jarrod’s Tech review, that for a an unrealistic stress test (AIDA64 plus Heaven) - the CPU throttles to the low 2 Ghz? I previously had an Alienware M15, and the most effective thing for it was undervolt and lifting the back edge up. Repasting provided no value - but I could watch the temps fall with every click of 10 mV in ThrottleStop. The m15, with these two tweaks, in this extremely unrealistic stress test (something you never encounter IRL) was able to sustain approx 3.2-3.6Ghz on 6 cores at about 90C (with the back edge lifted up).

    So the comparison here is the XPS15 seems to constrain the CPU in this unrealistic test, but I am hoping that it will be much closer to sustaining 3Ghz during game sessions, which aren’t as dramatic as this unrealistic stress test. I get that is not great - but still provides, in context, pretty damn good performance when you put it into more realistic use cases. My main concern, is I used an XPS15 2-in-1 previously, and it suffered horribly from GPU throttling. Sounds like with the XPS15 7590, they now choose to power throttle the CPU and let the GPU sit in the mid 40 watts, at around 1200 Mhz though - which is the right choice in my use case.
     
  31. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    The new Dell G3 was just "fixed" this week so users are reporting that the undervolting option was removed.

    https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-undervolting-isnt-changing-anything.264262/

    The ThrottleStop guide has more detailed information relating to plundervolt (Intel SA00289) to get you started.

    I think undervolt is disabled by resetting a register in the BIOS. For example:

    - Manually updating to a newer BIOS (the version notes might mention SA00289 but might not lol)

    - Windows updates could also automatically update the BIOS; presumably they could also reset that bit. You do have the ability to prevent some Windows updates.

    - I don't know if updating Intel drivers will reset that register. It is possible Intel could force the update via a driver or the secret IME. I'm not sure Dell or M$ could do that.

    I read that Intel is no longer supporting XTU. I don't know what register controls undervolting on the XPS or if the user can reset manually.

    With some basic games you might be right at the XPS' limit but there is only one way to know. There are plenty of posts complaining about the XPS' gaming performance and a dearth of posts praising its gaming performance.

    The VRM is undersized and uncooled so just can't produce much power. If you cut a big hole in the case bottom and blow cool air at the VRM, you might get slightly better performance.

    That varies by model and your individual chip.

    For my XPS 9550 and 9560, repaste provided significant improvement in thermals. The 9550 Skylake CPU was extremely undervoltable so that was a big help. The 9560 Kaby Lake CPU does not undervolt much so that is not much help. IIRC on the 9550, the undervolt and repaste each offered about 7*C improved CPU thermals under benchmarking (total 14*C which basically eliminated all thermal throttling for my use).
     
  32. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Thanks for all this info - like you said, only one way to find out - and I get the laptop today anyways. Thankfully with 30 day return window. I don’t expect the moon from it - as stated, my 9700K powered desktop with an 2060 will annihilate it; but I expect that. As I get older with more kids - I’m realizing that I need to lower my standards for a lot of things in some ways (I.e., always running a game at max settings at 1440P; or hell, even running any new game in general since I don’t have any time left to learn new games and would rather go back to old faithful titles that are several years old at this point). I know I’ve focused on games in this assessment - but I ultimately would either game-stream to the XPS15 from my desktop, or maybe even give a shot at Geforce NOW performance, and the only thing I would expect the XPS15 to do is run some strategy games when disconnected from networks on the go - or obviously can find any number of less intensive titles to play when traveling.
     
  33. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    The GeForce GTX 1650 won't be able to play Need For Speed Heat at a decent framerate right?

    Edit: Nevermind, I got the answer, it will run but only at lower resolutions if I want it to be playable
     
  34. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    This laptop's cooling sucks. Even with a -120mV undervolt it reaches 99C instantly when I run CINEBENCH then drops to 91-95C after the fans spin up.

    Here's my CINEBENCH R20 score:


    CINEBENCH.png

    @Papusan
     
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  35. JackShepard

    JackShepard Newbie

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    Hi there!

    Today I noticed that the upload speed of the Killer AX1650 of my XPS seems to be limited to around 1 mb/s for local and external network connections somehow. If I use my old notebook with Intel wifi ac-card from the same location I get transfer speeds of over 10 mb/s. Therefore my network setup is ok and it must be a problem related to the Killer wifi card.

    Does somebody have the same problem? Maybe I have to activate / deactive a certain option in the device settings like special pakets or Killer control center?

    Maybe I should switch to a Intel wifi card ;-)

    BR,

    JackShepard
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  36. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Sharing the attached 75 minute stress test - combined AIDA64 and Heaven on loop. I also saw similar behavior last night in a shorter test, and I think this is consistent with some online reviewers, although the GPU seems to be maintaining higher clocks and closer to 50W power than what I saw when doing a little research. Unfortunately, CPU drops down to 15W after about 20 minutes, which means ~2GHz clocks on 6 cores - this isn't the greatest, but still might meet my needs. I need to run some sort of realistic game test though - one that isn't quite this intensive as I think this kind of environment is incredibly unrealistic.

    I should add my XPS15 had it's back end lifted off the desk about 1" - no other undervolt, repaste, etc.

    XPS15 Stress Test-75mins.jpg

    i can't find the performance profile adjustment thing I've seen in a lot of reviews - how do I access that. I.e., it lets you set "quiet" "cool" "ultra performance" "balanced" modes for the system? I can't find it anywhere or do not know what to search for to open the utility.

    The 50W 1650 is capable of 60FPS@1080P at Medium to High settings in a lot of titles from what I've seen. Some more demanding might require Low settings, but it can even run Control at low at 60FPS which is impressive and from what I've seen still holds up well enough. I think the issue is reliable performance across long runs - you might see a period where the system decides to dump some heat and really lower clocks. It will eventually ramp back up though, but this isn't ideal.

    I don't get the complaint - sounds like it is performing pretty well on that spectrum (i.e., better than a desktop 8 core processor?) Don't sweat temps too much - it's an overblown concern - I realize that throttling can be dramatic if implemented poorly though (i.e., sudden pauses of the system, or major clock oscillations). What I'm seeing so far is there is a weird behavior after about 20 minutes where the system will dramatically lower CPU package power - but this is only in an unrealistic AIDA64/Heaven stability test. IRL use, it's more dynamic and seems to adjust GPU and CPU power dependent on load and need.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2020
  37. pandation

    pandation Notebook Enthusiast

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    So I saw these 7590 with i9 for ~1500 at dell outlet several times this week.

    I wonder if these 9980hk can actually hit that 5 ghz max speed, if I were only to use a single or two cores at most.

    At the moment, im mostly coding/watching youtube with my old i5-9560, and my simulations runs several hours on a single core (python). I wonder if upgrading to i9 would be worth it for my purpose, can it actually hit 5ghz? My old xps with 7300hq always hit that 3.2ghz and barely got up to 60C in ubuntu.

    I wonder if it can cut my 5 hours simulations into 3 hours if i get that i9 xps?
     
  38. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    It will hit 4.8 GH briefly while you're in Windows. The moment you give it any real load it dips to 3.6 GHz and will thermal throttle eventally to 2.6 GHz. I returned mine today because of that and got an MSI GT75 Titan 9SG instead for the same price
     
  39. pandation

    pandation Notebook Enthusiast

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    Wow that's rather disappointing. My core i5-xps9560 is capable to run one of the core at max clock 3.1ghz all day long, while the other cores do menial tasks like browsing/youtube/email without cpu temp goes beyond 60-70C.

    Oh damn, i put in my order let see if i can cancel it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  40. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    That is Dell Command I Power Manager

    I run v2.2.1 but I think there is a newer version for your laptop.
     
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  41. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that was with a -120mV undervolt. Any higher undervolt will result in a BSOD and reboot.

    Since you've ordered it already might as well wait a bit and see if it is better as each CPU is different. Worst case scenario you can refund it.
     
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  42. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    I didn't notice this low of a dip on a CPU only stress test (AIDA64) - seemed to stay at 3.6 Ghz for a 30 minute run. It's only when combined CPU/GPU load that CPU dips to 15W, and it only brings the CPU down after about 20 minutes of sustained use in games or a stress test. I played Witcher 3 today (well, I had it on in the background for over an hour, occasionally changing scenes) - CPU basically parked at 15W as well, so it's not just during the AIDA/Heaven combined stress test. GPU will largely stay at 50W though, occasionally dipping down below 40W. See attached screen shot.

    This lines up 100% with Jarrod's Tech review of the device...I notice he did a great Prestige 15 comparison - seems the Prestige 15 is better for you than this device if you really need better sustained CPU performance. He verified that because the Prestige 15 uses a Max-Q GPU, it tends to lag the XPS15 for gaming or GPU heavy tasks. So far my use case - this XPS15, at this price point especially ($1K w/1 year warranty AFTER tax!); still wins the day compared to nearly 1500 after tax for a Prestige 15. But I'm comparing refurb to NEW, so I know most here will point that out.

    So bottom line - they've really constrained the CPU on the XPS15 when in combined loads. I'll try an AIDA only stress test later today to see if the CPU still ends up at 15W regardless. It's odd, as the thermal system seems to have a bit more room - CPU is ending up in the upper 70Cs; so Dell is just choosing to power throttle this thing, and not worry about maximum potential of it's cooling solution.

    I will say, having temporarily owned 4K OLED Alienware M15, that the FHD screen on the XPS15 - is actually quite excellent. Especially used during daytime - the matte finish, and overall brightness, just makes for a really pleasing screen to use during everyday tasks. Glossy 4K screens really suffer in the typical brightly lit environment. Overall color and contrast is excellent as well, but obviously OLED's prefect black will always win the day for most media content (at night); I did find the "cinema color" toggle to be pretty nice to really boost color/contrast during media viewing as well.

    So after just a couple days of use - while keeping in mind the 15W CPU power limit - I still really like the device. Mainly because it appears to sustain decent FPS targets when gaming compared to previous XPS15 experience (I owned the OG 4 years ago, and have tried the 2-in-1 variant twice). Still much more to test over the next 28 days though!
     

    Attached Files:

  43. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    FHD is an excellent screen.

    ThrottleStop will allow you to disable many of the throttling schemes (FIVR screen check "disable and lock turbo power limits). That might get you with a CPU that is not stuck at 15W. That said, your clocks might not rise.

    My 9550 CPU seems to tap out at 15W frequently but it is running at max Intel clocks for all cores all day (2.8 ghz on 6300hq per Intel) so the 15w does not hurt from a performance perspective.

    EDIT - glad this works well for your use case
     
  44. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    So I upgraded the SSD, which means I am leaning towards keeping it (I had a 1TB laying around). After using Macrium Relfect to clone the 256GB to the bigger drive - things seemed pretty smooth and immediately booted into windows. However I got a BSOD within 10 minutes, and then the XPS15 started telling me "no hard disk found" on subsequent boots. I tried a lot of different BIOS tweaks - but nothing would result in detecting the drive until I literally opened it up, removed, and the reseated the drive. After several more BSODs, I finally tried disabled Bitlocker on the cloned drive, and then also switched to AHCI. So far, things seem stable after these two steps, but anyone with experience know why this may have happened?
     
  45. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    Maybe search some of the posts by @GoNz0 as he used Macrium on his 9570 and had some tips.

    I just do a clean install of Windows but that takes time.

    Also, the gold contacts at the end of the SSD and RAM are extremely sensitive to fingerprints and other contamination (my buddy ran thousands of computers in a "farm" so has good stats, albeit they are trade secrets). Cleaning the contacts and reseating the card might help.
     
  46. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    THanks pressing - you've been incredibly helpful in this process. SO far my tweaks appear to have stabilized the system. Perhaps I did have a messy set of contacts and subsequent re-seating of the M.2 card corrected some dirty contacts. However, switching to AHCI and turning off bitlocker may have been the ticket. If I couldn't get the clone to work - I would have done the clean-install as well.
     
  47. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Does anyone know the max USB-C PD charging rate of the XPS15? I have a 100W USB-C adapter; and I expected for it to say it was "slow USB charger" when plugged in, but still a bit confusing that you get battery drain under load. I ran the Heaven benchmark on loop and noticed I was losing battery percentage. I know the OEM charger is 130 watts - but I figured a 100W charger would still be able to hold it's own. I noticed that HWINFO states the battery charging at 38W under idle - and 0W when at load. Just curious - it may make perfect sense, but not sure since I am using a new Kickstarter backed charger, so it may be that it's not sending 100W to my XPS15.

    EDIT: Might be the cable I'm using not reaching the watts necessary - it's an older 3A cable focused on QuickCharge capability (3A/5V) - I probably need a cable that can reach 5A required. Hard to tell exactly, but may only be reaching 45W with this cable, maybe up to 60W if I look at both specs for cable and my charger. Need to find an alternate cable to test!

    UPDATE: Got a 100W cable - but largely doesn’t change the charge rate - maybe it went up to 45W charging when at idle, but still not able to run a mixed GPU and CPU load without battery discharge. The system wants that full fat 130W charger!
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
  48. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Ran AIDA only on my system for over 60 minutes - basically it eventually parks at 45W on the CPU and about 3.4-3.5Ghz on the CPU. CPU sits at about 94-95C, or around 90C if I lift the back end up an inch.

    I think this is great - essentially means this unit is parking right at the TDP for the CPU as rated. It will hold a higher boost for about 10-20 minutes - upwards of 60W, then slowly back down to 45W.

    This is CPU only load, but it’s clear in these thin and lights, the dual heat pipe, dual fan design is about 70-80W thermal dissipation. In a system with a Max-Q 1650, this means it can let the CPU run at higher W in mixed load (like the Prestige 15) and may be more balanced overall. Dell has chosen to let it’s 1650 run at 50W in mixed load and therefore constrains the CPU down to 20W. Not sure which one is ultimately “better” - but for GPU limited games - and that use case, XPS15 is better, but probably for most users, they would prefer a bit more CPU power under mixed CPU/GPU.

    I’m finding because of the CPU limit, running at consistent 60+ FPS can be hard, even at medium settings (even though the 1650 is capable of that in a lot of titles that aren’t CPU bound). For example, NBC says the 1650 should achieve about 60 FPS in AC:Odyssey on medium settings, but the XPS15 I have averages 51FPS. The Division 2 runs similarly about 5FPS less than what a reference 1650 should achieve.

    UPDATE: Above FPS discrepancy might be due to my 8GB ram - I've seen some mixed reports on how going to 16GB improves these titles I've tested (since they are narrowly Ubisoft titles). Might buy that 5-10FPS back.

    BUT - if I change perspectives - as someone who also plays a lot of console games - this 4.5lb system can easily drive a ton of games at high or ultra and 30FPS and remains pretty consistent. This is heresy in the PC gaming crowd - but again, perspectives! This machine isn’t a gamer’s dream, but as a secondary function, is pretty impressive if you keep expectations in check.

    Again, I evaluate this as having paid $1K after tax - if I paid full price - the argument might change drastically - although I can still see many reasons to pick the XPS15 over more performant notebooks (say Eluktronics MAX-15, or the Prestige 15). Those advantages: brighter screen, thinner design, smaller power brick, optional USB-C charging, better form factor and design, better trackpad, no whacky RGB keyboards, quieter fan noise. Of course, if you are gamer first - this is NOT the machine you want.

    This is a wall of text - but ultimately I feel the XPS15 is still legendary and I wanted to report that I think this thing performs to spec quite well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
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  49. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    I wouldn’t let this case deter you - pick one up and see if it’s performance holds up. I just tested CPU only AIDA for well north of 75 minutes. See my previous post - it does not throttle into mid 2GHZ as this user reported. Mine stayed at 3.5GHZ at 45W and performs exactly to spec.
     
  50. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Sooooooooooooo....this modern standby drama - sounds like if I don't use hibernation, I should expect this 7590 to eat through battery, even with the lid closed? I've had two instances of burning through about 20% battery in 6 hours with the lid closed
     
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