XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread

I am almost certain that's vrm throttling. Graph the EC temp sensors with hwinfo and keep an eye on any sensor that hits a peak around the time the CPU clocks first start.

 

@Eason I know, but we are gonna have to wait for the tweaked review. Here I am already at work parsing random people's data.

 

Can you uncheck "BDprochot" in Throttlestop? The 9560 appeared to hit that limit as well, but was was because the vrm coincidentally hit 77C around that time. Also, the 1050/1050ti will throttle around 79C, keeping temps down.

Edit: sorry I thought it was your data!

 

the BDprochot flag is off in the data that I have.

I wish I had the Dell EC sensor data available!

 

I just saw that Samsung has released 32GB DDR4 SO-DIMMs. Will these work in the 9570? How about the 9560?

Edit: Just checked intel's website and it looks like both the 9560 and 9570's processors support 64GB.

 

What are your experience with delivery time? How long time from order to shipment and delivery?
Where does it ship from?

 

Regarding the "large pad bridge method" that a user on reddit proposed for the 9650.
He is also putting the laptop on a cooling pad with fans... Maybe that's the reason for his results...

 

I wrote that post. Have you read through all of it? The post is kind of a mess, so I can see how things might get lost in it. I outright stated that the cooling pad makes a 2 degree difference. I have no throttling with it off. At all. I made this account to clear up this confusion. I made what I did after reading through each and every post here and elsewhere. After seeing that, when others put pads from the plastic to the case bottom, it caused severe heat issues. That's what led to the idea.

The goal was to move just enough heat to prevent throttling. That's what it does. It clearly impacts the CPU and GPU temperatures, so there is heat being moved. It's not efficient, but it works.

 

If you have time, feel free to post a summary and pictures here as any novel solution that works is well worth documenting.

 

Of course, I'll be glad to share it. It's a bit of a mess, as I said above. It was months of work, and a lot of it is out of date. I mixed in a lot of ideas I saw around here and on a few other sites. I think I made notes on everything important, but if I missed anything, please ask and I will clarify. Sadly, I lost some of my temperature notes I had kept on paper. But I have posted what I can.

Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/7orxcs/how_to_get_your_xps_15_running_cold/

 

@Jff007 thanks for your efforts. I certainly will give your ideas a try.

Regarding the cooling mat, even though it doesn't change the temperature of CPU and GPU that much, it might be sufficient to vent the VRMs which apparently were the source of major throttling for the 9560.

If you have time, Run the Asus Realbench Stress Test with the cooling pad off. Record everything with HWInfo and upload the csv file somewhere. I am getting good at parsing that data. Remember to record also the data from the DELL EC sensor.

 

Ran the tests. I did the first with no pad on. Oddly enough, HWInfo flagged the power limits yet the CPU never downclocked. I had the Windows task manager running updates on the CPU speed just to test, so maybe that's not the most accurate. Also of note is the fact that none of the temperatures got high enough to trigger my Throttlestop profile changes I have for when the GPU or CPU get too hot for comfort.

I ran a second time without logging to verify the CPU speeds and to see what kind of impact the pad had during the heavy multitasking portion. In the middle of it, I flipped the pad on and saw an immediate drop in CPU temperature, yet the VRM sensor stayed consistent until the test was over.

Here's the log: https://ufile.io/nn740

 

@Jff007 First, thank you very much. I am confused by the data. It doesn't look like you ran the stress test. perhaps you ran the benchmark? (they are two different things).

Also, a lot of critical data is missing, there are no frequencies for CPU and no CPU utilization data.
Unfortunately, I can't do much!

If you have time, please rerun the stress test, make sure that all sensors are recorded by HWINFO and keep throttlestop to one profile.

Thanks anyway!

 

That's odd. Maybe I hit the wrong thing, haha. I'll run it again when I'm back at my laptop. I have all the HWInfo sensors on, I believe. I'll look into that.

 

They are on, but sometimes you have to manually adjust which ones are recorded in the file.

 

How would I manually adjust that?

 

You are right, You just have to make sure that they are on in Configuration->layout

 

Ah! Got it. I had turned some of that off for quicker temperature checks during testing. I'll try to upload a log at some point tomorrow.

 

@Eason I just saw your review (and Lisa's) review of the GS65. I wonder if there is a slim laptop with a 6 core CPU that doesn't throttle out of the box. And you got lucky with that 150mv undervolt!

 

Actually that's derek, not me
He should have dinged the truly dim 250 nit display. Imo not a 4/5 given that screen

 

Hi, All--

long time lurker, first time poster. Finally got my 9570, i7, FHD, 16gb ram yesterday. This is after nearly 10 years of owning Mac laptops.

I haven't had too much time to dive in, but so far I have been pretty happy (coming from a 2013 Air). I started her up and tried running WoW on near-max settings for about an hour and topped my temps around mid 90s, but once the fans kicked in hard it floated around high 80s. Took it down to a -120mv stable and went to high 80s max, with constant temps around mid 70s to low 80s; this is after a few hours of playing. The GPU was relatively cool, around low 70s top, but I think WoW is a more CPU intensive game.

So far, happy with the gaming performance and didn't seem to have any throttling, if any.

I have some minor light bleed, but it's very minor. No coil whine.

The one issue I am having is that the thing can't seem to update to the next Windows update. It can't install this 1709 update, even though I think Windows is on 1803. So, no idea what's going on. Do you guys recomend I install via the ISO? I've heard lots of problems with 1803 and I am wondering if the lockup issues some are having here are due to that (based on other laptops having those problems that are not just Dell).

I've heard people in here say their systems are locking up when gaming, but this to me is most likely an issue unrelated to temperature.

 

What do you mean it can't update? Does it give you any error? If it's not, it will eventually download it.

Regarding the 1803, it had an incompatibility with the toshiba SSD on the 9750. Now it shuold be solved.

 

I'll double-check when I get home, but it tells me to restart to install, I restart, then when I get back into Windows it tells me updates could not be installed. It then will eventually tell me im out of date and need to install updates.

 

Some more information would be helpful. I did a fresh install of 1803 on my 9575 by downloading the windows installation tool and putting it on a usb:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

 

This is the error I am getting:


Last failed install attempt on ‎5/‎31/‎2018 - 0x80070bc2

and it's specifically this update: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4103727/windows-10-update-kb4103727

 

can you try to manually download and install that update?
if you google that error code, you get many answers.
I don't think it's something specific to the xps15

 

Actually tried the suggestion in this article. Not sure what services it wanted to run, but I did the CMD runs and it seemed to work.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...e/24e80681-eb22-4439-8677-638fce437186?page=7

 

@cpaek72 You are the only one here who has 9570 so far.

If you have time, could you please run the Realbench Stress Test (not the benchmark). Record everything with HWInfo and upload the csv file somewhere? It would really be helpful for us.
You can keep throttlestop on.

 

Also, it seems most people were getting Toshibas or Samsungs for the SSD. I have a "LiteON"? Never heard of it.

 

I have only heard of Toshibas and Hynix. No Samsung. You are the first LiteOn. Do you mind posting a quick benchmark with CrystalDiskMark6?

 

Apologies. I meant Hynix.



How is that? I just ran it as it defaulted. Just installed 1803 as well.

 

It is not bad at all. Samsungs SSDs are still the very top (especially the brand new 970). Toshiba and Hynix got closer to 960 EVO level and are very power efficient.

In practice, you'll notice 0 difference.

 

This is data after about 2 hours of playing WoW with a -120mv underclock. Setting in game are at 1080p and Graphics 6 (which is one step above the recommended; locked FPS to 60). This is pretty impressive imo for such a small form factor.

 

@vCanalla,
I don't care about games at all. It seems to be able to handle WoW well. It's hard to tell from these graphs though.

Is -120mv your maximum undervolt or can you push it more?

Note: Your SSD is indeed a liteon ca3.

 

I guess I've seen a lot of people here sometimes implying the machine figuratively blows up within minutes of running a game. WoW may not be the most intensive game, but it's not a pushover, either. Anyway, may test some more games later.

No, I haven't tried further. Been playing on the -120 to get a sense. May try for -130 next?

 

Go for it. Some people have reported even a stable -150 on these i7.

 

Thank you for the real world gaming tests. Could you do more gaming tests on it? I'm interested how the 1050ti maxq is comapred to the regular one.
With repasting the temperatures should go down even more, I hope any more mods won't be necessary for gaming and programming work.

 

Beyond a simple crash, are there any other concerns? I've heard that undervolting stresses the VRMs more? But, I have no idea how true that is.

I am actually contemplating re-pasting soon. I do plan to try some more games on it, but not sure what yet. I mostly game on console, so I don't have too large of a library. Maybe I'll try beating Metro, which I recall being a pretty intense game.

 

You can either get some software error notification or system crash. Undervolting does not stresses the VRMs, if anything it reduces the stress because they need to pump less power.

 

Somewhat true. That being said, there is a reason for that story. Dropping to an even lower voltage does actually add a bit more stress on the VRMs (compared to normal operation) by the very nature of how buck converters work. However, as you noted, the CPU will draw less current when it's driven at a lower voltage (therefore drawing less overall power). I think more than balance each other out, since the VRM temps decrease when undervolting the CPU, which is a good indicator that the VRMs are wasting less power.

 

It's complicated.

One wildcard is that the 9550 and 9560 had a significantly underspecced VRM to fit everything in the small case.

Consequence of VRM design (and lack of cooling) was that it got hot fast and the mosfets get increasingly inefficient so keep getting hotter spiraling into thermal hell. Dell resolved that with a simple logic that throttles system once the local VRM ambient temp sensor hits about 77C; it reads power limit flag. There are hundreds of posts of people trying to snake around Dell's VRM flag.

We don't have enough data on the 9570 to know if Dell has the same scheme. But the basic chipset, VRM, motherboard, case, etc. are essentially similar for all three generations.

 

And that is why I am still not sure wether to order the 9570 or not.

I would also love a better GPU but it seema none of the competitors with similiar sizr and better GPU are able to handle the heat without throttling.

Would also hope for a Thinkpad with same cpu/gpu and size because Dell customer support/service just simply sucks too much.

 

I also love thinkpads, my laptop is a X1 yoga oled, but it cannot handle video or photo edit nicely.... and there are no other options as good as dell XPS in thinkpad line... :-((((

 

If money is not an issue, thin gaming laptops like the aero 15x, msi gs65, and the razer blade 15 have same CPU and a better GPU. They all still have some thermal limitation but MAYBE not as severe as XPS15.
It's hard to tell at this point because all these machines are pretty new.

 

MSI screen is limited to 1080p, which is a limitation for video/photo editing..... The Aero 15x seems to be good option but the problem is that I dont know how good is gigabyte support, power supply is much bulkier, no i9 cpu, it's heavier and the price is the same...

 

So when we get a new 9570 and do the mandatory throw away of the Killer NIC crap, what should we replace it with? Intel 9560, Intel 9260 or something else? As I understand it, 9560 and 9260 is the same card, just with different connector?

 

I've seen quite a few people complain about DELL support. I have had quite a few of their laptops and no problems with their technical support, which I have used quite a few times. I understand that a bad opinion is more widely spread than a good one, but speaking from experience, DELL and Lenovo are quite similar high quality regarding the on-site support. I have never used the mail-in warranty though.

 

Has anybody tried using 9570 with TB16 or any other docking station? I'm considering purchase, I can live with thermal issues, but having a reliable dock is a must for me, and it's hard to find any info on that.

 

My own bad experience with Dell:
Bought my max spec XPS 9530 for ~2200€. 1 month after the standard warranty ran out I get a red thin line on my screen. Called Dell and they told me that they do not have any replacement displays anymore although the device was only 1-2 years old. I should **** off and buy a new laptop instead. So I threatend them that by law they have to offer replacement parts for a certain amount of time after an article has been released. Some Dell guy calls me and tells me they have a replacement. But with the display+repairing costs around 1000€.

 

Question has been raised numerous times and I guess there is nothing new to say unless it works differently with the 9570 which I doubt.