XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread

Screen color change on 1.7 like 1.6 did? If so guess I am sticking with 1.5 for now. Working fine for me

 

Thanks for installing and checking that for me. I just responded to the Dell rep, my guess is they will not be fixing this issue in a reasonable amount of time. I had just purchased 3 more XPS laptops for a business but I may return them just on principle (even though they will never use the 1050ti to any reasonable level).

 

BIOS update is still not available on fwupd, however it should be released in the coming days. I would've hoped they fixed the latency issue or the 75C issue, but still, something is something.

 

Dell never said they would "fix" aka revert the 74°C throttle change from 78°C. You are misinterpreting this. The promised fix with 1.7.0 was all about the 48°C bug, and so far as I can see, it is fixed with 1.7.0. I am 99% sure, the 74°C throttle will stay and they wont revert it.

Colors still broken with 1.7.0 on 4k display (the option is still gone in the Intel settings, therefore colors are oversaturated).

I have to make more testings, but I am certain there is a change to fan control again, to the worse. It seems Dell changed the fans even more annoying, that if the dGPU has any activity, the fans start to spin. It wasnt so aggressively before 1.7.0 as I see it. This is at least for me, a very unfortunate change again to the worst. Because I was able to play some old / low games before where the fans stayed 100% off even with dGPU in use. Opening Windows task manager literally starts the fans now with 99% chance for a few seconds and then it goes off again, even all temps are around 38°C. This is also the "1 second spin" bug I reported before several times.

Did a Cinebench and no change there, got 1249 points.

@ therock003 You seem to be very lucky with your 8750H and have very good silicon. Even with a -144mV undervolt, mine never goes under 0.64xxV, and yours is in the 0.58xxV region with a -125mV undervolt.

I noticed a 25% stuck c0% activity which didnt go away anymore on one core after a gaming test and it just got away after rebooting, have to look into this if it happens again.

 

The Dell engineer I was talking to assured me it would fix both bugs, I can forward you the email if you don't believe me.

 

The Dell "engineer" (he actually told me he is one, so not just customer service person) I spoke to via email told me he is beta testing the bios (that was in December) and he works on the low temperature throttle bug and he doesnt know about a 74°C change. He also told me btw he never heard about a "DPC latency" bug. It seems one hand just doesnt know what the other is doing at Dell, which is really annoying and leads all these issues, delay in fixes or even fixes wont ever come.

 

Emailed the Dell engineer again, asked him about the 74°C issue not being fixed with 1.7.0 and he wrote back just a moment ago, quote, that "I should contact the Dell customer support if I have any questions or problems" (-:

 

LOL, don't worry I emailed the Dell "engineer" I've been talking to. Thankfully my issue has been "escalated" as it had oh so many times before...

 

I can confirm, at least on my 9570 with 1.7.0 under Windows, that the fans are now coupled to the dGPU 1:1. It wasnt like this before 1.7.0. Anything, which activates the dGPU, even if it just for a brief moment like doing a 1-second poll (like GPUz, or even Windows Task manager), regardless of its temps, activates the fans now for 2-5 seconds. Opening Steam, fans run for 5 seconds, go off. Even better: If I have Steam running in the back, or anything which can poll the dGPU, then go modern standby, wake up, it triggers the fans every single time for 5 seconds. Opening HwInfo... fans kick in for 5 seconds. CLOSING HWINFO... fans kick in for 5 seconds. Opening Nvidia panel... fans kick in for 5 seconds. Closing it... fans run. Just GREAT... JUST GREAT.

 

Having the same behavior but wondering if it could be latest Windows updates?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

No. It started today after 1.7.0. There was no Windows update today or yesterday. And the issue was not present like this, not earlier his morning not the day before. It was already annoying but it is like... The last Windows update was on Tuesday this week and I had rebooted that day obviously.

 

Man am I glad I returned mine lol. The fan cycling was already annoying enough

 

1.7 here, turned on HWINFO64 and then Steam, no fan.
The curve does seem more aggressive in general but I don't see the symptom you are experiencing on mine.

 

Did you do it with AC connected or battery? It just does it for me on AC, not battery I just noticed. Do it with Task Manager + AC, please. Steam does it only if oyu have SteamVR installed maybe, HwInfo only if you have GPU polling on mostly. Or just start GPUz, which does a dGPU poll one time obviously for frequency measurement. Anything, which talks to the dGPU, even for just 1 second, kicks in the fans, and they then just run for 5 seconds.

 

@maffle I tried to replicate your problem and I realized that you should be happy, not upset.
In a sense, they did what you wanted.
Do you remember when you were complaining that the fans do not turn off when the computer is on AC and idle?
Well, now they DO turn off.

Probably the "trigger point/threshold" to turn them on is very low (too low, IMO), so just opening the task manager is enough to make them start spinning.

 

@abujafar Erm no... I dont remember, because I never said that. I think you're mistaken what I once said, that was something totally different, (PCH) temperature curve related. THIS is something new, dGPU activity, regardless what the temps are, every single talk to the dGPU triggers the fans now, even closing apps. dGPU on => fans turn on, after 5 seconds, realize the temps are too low to spin on, turn off.

Modern standby + one of the mentioned apps opened, wake up => fans turn on, 5 sec, fans off, press power, wake up, fans on => infinite cycle.
Open task manager, fans turn on, 5 sec, fans off, close task manager fans turn on 5 sec, fans off. Repeat.
Open Nvidia settings, fans turn on, 5 sec, fans turn off, close Nvidia settings fans turn on 5 sec, fans off. Repeat.

=> NOT INTENDED. BUG. ANNOYING. Dell is incompetent. Not a single event activity has to trigger the fans, temperature sensors have to trigger the fans.

 

I remember back when I had an XPS 13, when I upgraded my windows 10 home to pro, it basically removed my ability to restore the pc using the recovery partition.

Now I have the XPS 15 9570 i9/4k/32GB /2TB ssd/ windows 10 home.
Any way I can upgrade to pro without affecting the recovery partition and my ability to restore from that partition?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

Yes AC, and I just tested again with HWInfo (made sure I opened the sensors and could see dGPU statistics), and GPU-Z, nothing. So its something specific to your device or specific setup.

Dell power manager is optimised, WIndows slider is better performance and like everyone else I'm running Throttlestop with 3.8 (Core 1+2) / 3.6 (Core 3-6) limit and -135mv undervolt. Nothing modded on dGPU - found the bug with afterburner and HW monitoring.

 

My laptop is still broken, capped to 12.5W. It is a nightmare dealing with Swedish Dell customer service. I have been calling them nonstop, one guy answered and promised to solve it, he said he made a new case and so on, promised me on his bare knees to call me on monday. No one called, a week passed. I called Dell for the hundred time, a new girl answered and said, previous guy I spoke to quit hahahah and never made a new case for me.

This new girl promises to deal with, make a case and promises a response within 2 weeks. A few days goes and I cannot wait anymore....! I cannot play a 4K or 1080P X265 Hvec movie as it is right now.

I call and ask to speak with the same girl from last week, I say this doesn't work, I want to get rid of this piece of crap. She says "we cannot give you your money back or a new laptop, as you have to go through 3 repairs to do so. You have only changed motherboard's 2 times." -wow

Waiting for her to talk to her manager now.....

 

That sounds dreadful. It really shouldn't have to be that way, I would call back and ask for the manager. If that manager can't help you than ask for his/her boss. Let them know you've done more than anyone could have expected in terms of troubleshooting. Good luck.

 

Opening/closing Edge triggers the fans now too, even it is set to use internal gpu in the nvidia settings. Same as opening Explorer for first time, then right click on an exe file.Right clicking agin does not trigger the dGPU. Closing Explorer, doing it again, and it triggers fans.

It is not, others confirmed it too on Reddit with 1.7.0.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9eouyny81ctd9h/dgputriggersfans.mp4?dl=0

Fans/dGPU are off.
Opening Task manager (or other apps who access dGPU).
dGPU is on for half a second.
Fans go on for 7-9 seconds
Closing Task Manager.
dGPU is on for half a second.
Fans go on for 7-9 seconds.

 

Might remembering all wrong here but didn't you post a similar problem on a Swedish forum a few months ago?

 

So, what the latest on 1.7.0, is it even worse than previous BIOS versions or should we install it?

 

Yes, not similar, but the same problem Although then I had issues with blue screens every 5 minute due to a faulty realtek driver.

Sweclockers is great, but not close to as many experts, or in particular laptop experts as in this forum

 

Dell Support in Sweden has recently changed providers which seem to have lead to LOTS of confusion. Just had to deal with them to have a keyboard and a touchpad and it was kind of a nightmare, several people from them contacted me about the same ticket, apparently without knowing about each others existence. And they had absurd demands like that I was obligated to answer when their technician called, but could not in advance say when they would call. So basically told me to put my life on hold. Email was apparently unheard of. Fortunately, the technician had heard of email and finally sent me an email and we worked it out.

 

It has been pretty good for me. I don't think that this is a locked bios. You can downgrade to 1.6.0 if necessary.

 

@maffle I am able to reproduce what you describe. Not sure about the fan activation but definitely the fact that the dgpu is pooled when starting and closing task manager, edge, and also right clicking on a program icon for the first time. I believe this might be a problem of Nvidia Optimus Tech (or a combination of nvidia/windows/dell).

Especially the right click on a program icon for the first time makes me believe this. This is due to the fact that an nvidia dll is loaded to show the "Run with graphic processor" submenu.
I will try to reinstall nvidia drivers from scratch and see if it helps

 

Yes. BUT: Since bios 1.7.0 it seems the fans are triggered with a 100% chance if the dGPU has activity (regardless of its temperature), even for a millisecond, causing the fans to spin. This wasnt the case before. There might be some Optimus bugs still in Windows (though you have to poll the dGPU 1 time to getting its infos, so task manager needs to do that, same as GPUz, ect), but now in combination with bios 1.7.0, it causes the fans to spin up for no reason every single time. Why Edge asks the dGPU too I dont know mostly a bug. The Nvidia dll of the right click menu also asks the dGPU one time, for whatever reason. So these (different poll dGPU) "problems" were there already in Windows here and there, but now it manifests with bios 1.7.0.

I already tried to reinstall via DDU and do a fresh Nvidia driver install. Didnt fix it. The problem is not the brief dGPU poll here and there under Windows, the problem is the new Dell bios, spinning the fans with a 100% chance if dGPU has activity (ignoring temperature), even just for a brief moment. And they then run for at least 7-9 seconds, then go off again. Next poll, and they do it again. It seems if some process polled and then this process is closed, it triggers again a short access to dGPU and triggers fans...

 

@maffle one step forward and one step back. It's almost comical at times. :facepalm:

 

I am not on bios 1.7.0 and experience the same behaviour

 

Hello.
Plese help me with some questions.

Yesterday i bought a new XPS.
My machine is 9570, 8750, 16+512+4K. Bios 1.7.

1) How can i install nvidia drivers for 1050ti maxq from nvidia web site?
I have an error while instalation.
Also problem i have with intel uhd driver with *exe package, zip did not find on intel web site.

2) the question about throtttling. Stock notebook, i undervolt up to -0.150(cpu ang cache) and run prime95 smallFFT test. The temp runs to 80, 86, 92, 94, then wattge drops from 73 to 55, and then to 22. After 5-10sec wattage grows to 72. After 5 minutes of tests i see a jumps bettwen 22w, 70w and 55w. But the cpu temp is 65-80C. It is normal for undervilting machine with stock paste?
I also test a second prime95 test Large FFT test, and cpu always Runs at 3.5ghz with 77-80C with 55-57W.

3) At which test (smallFFT or LargeFFT) i need to tests my machine?

4) Is anyone who undervolt iGPU? What voltage are you reach?

Thank you.

 

@J99 I noticed this already randomly before 1.7.0, but with a way lower chance, not 100. Maybe it was 1 try out of 5 before or even lower (with task manager test runs), now it is 5 out of 5.

@Cooler-master you have to remove the custom Dell GPU drivers first before you can install native Intel/Nvidia drivers ( https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html ). You have to disable auto driver update via Windows update too otherwise Windows will roll back Dell drivers ( https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...iver-updates-windows-update-windows-10-a.html step 2/3(you need pro)/4 ).

Your values seem fine, I have to repaste mine by time, mine reaches 97°C on 2 cores even with -150mV undervolt.

I dont recommend undervolting the iGPU/unslice it causes more problems than it helps, for me at least randomly. You can try something around -50mV to -70mV.

 

It's not happening randomly for me. It is every time the dGPU is activated (polled)

 

Small FFT is the most demanding AFAIK, so this makes sense.
Do you see CPU thermal throttling (in HWinfo64 Sensors), or is it PL throttling?
By default, first PL throttling is after short turbo time expires after half a minute of Prime95 (but not Cinebench) (with ThrottleStop one can change power limits lately). Then it may get PL throttled due to ambient temperatures, some mention DIMM (Temp7?) under Dell EC at 63. Problem is VRM mosfets have no cooling and tend to get very hot under load. Workaround for this is padding the VRMs (google up...), a proper solution isn't easy. One should be able to make the CPU run unthrottled with the simple fixes, but when the CPU and the GPU are under long-term load together it is better to restrict the CPU.

 

Which again and again raises the question if there is a better alternative than the XPS15? If not, thats actually really bad for the current state of PC laptops considering all the problems we actually have with our XPS15s...

 

There aren't any better alternatives that I know about. Everything has a compromise sadly. If you want better cooling you gotta go thicker/less portable. If this X1 had Dell's screen and battery life it would be just about perfect for me. It is a little bigger than the XPS but at least I don't have the nose webcam. If this OP15 got near the battery life of the X1, I would sell the X1 in a heartbeat though, lol.

 

Gigabyte Aero 15x V8 - the perfect laptop it has a 94w/h battery, better graphics card, better cooling. Slightly more expensive. Sadly not available in Sweden. But damn I would buy one if I could.


The Asus Zenbook UX580GE isn't too bad. Razer laptops are incredible but much more expensive.

MSI have some nice laptops but build quality sucks. The new MSI GS75 is REALLY cool, but probably very flexy screen, as far as I know, the first 17" with 4-5mm thick bezels.

 

Dell gave me my money back after a firm telephone call that it wasn't acceptable as it was and I wasn't happy keeping it. I'd return it Eucalyptus as there is clearly something wrong with that device and they should either offer you a full refund or replacement at your choice.

Stay on their case, calm but firm, letting them know that it is simply not acceptable. I hope you get a good result as you've been messed around enough in my opinion.

Dell MUST address these issues before bringing out the next model, surely? It's a car crash just bringing out new BIOS updates and throttling these machines as they aren't able to run properly in a 'vanilla' state.

 

It's far from perfect lol

 

Yeah sadly they all have their issues.

 

Yes, thats the thing and the reason why I kind of blame the "state of the market" here, we really should not have all these problems considering what we are paying for the products. The Razers are quite nice but they have made some strange design decisions that rules it out as a "work laptop", no finger print scanner, weird keyboard backligt etc. And if you factor in things like onsite support etc, many "non boring" brands are excluded from the list. Still a bit interested in the ZBook Studio G5 but have never seen one being used IRL.

 

Yes the lack of fingerprint is possible a deal-breaker sadly. MSI have one, but it sucks hahaha Had no idea I would use it SO MUCH! Especially love how it is fitted to the power button.
Especially using it for Dashlane login with Windows Hello. Have no other passwords or anything to login to the computer to reduce boot time hahah

 

Thank you for the reply.
Hwinfo says about powerlimit throttling.
I start SmallFFP test. Power package is 70+-wt. Fan works slow. After cpu heats up to 90-92C the power package is 22wt and the fan works at max speed. Then cpu cool down to 60-65C, and package grows up to 70wt and fan works slow. The power package is constantly change from 70wt to 22wt.
I cannot understang, why macnhine cannot work at 45-50wt constantly?
Temp7 is around 50-52C.

 

In device manager - system devices, what driver do you have installed for intel (r) dynamic platform and thermal framework manager?

what bios version are you?

do you have dell power manager installed? what thermal management profile are you using?

I agree this is a badly managed power optimization.

 

Thats probably the main reason I have not yet shelled out money and given the MBP a new chance, the lack of Windows Hello. Also using Dashlane BTW

 

Because this is what comes out when computer programmers do control engineering, electric iron tech hehe

 

@ Cooler-master the jumps between 70 to 22 to 50 to 22 to 70 ect is normal and how the intel cpu works with short turbo boosts. Chose high performance in dell power tool to get a desired stable ~45W.

 

Can you tell me more about what dell power manager thermal management profiles change specifically and individually?

 

@ J99 is mostly just configures some of the MS energy policies or values for the Intel thermals, you cant see them because of modern standby.

After testing 1.7.0 now for several days, it is not just the dGPU poll which triggers the fans now, the fans got also more annoying, and now run for 2-4 seconds all the time randomly while doing something, even all temps are 38-41°C. They can stay off for a while, but then out of nowhere, start to spin for 2-4 seconds for no reason. This is just a terrible joke. I kinda want to open it and unplug these damn fans which have NO meaningful function forever...

 

I havent tested 1.7 but used 1.5 since it came as I am stuck.

Fan haven't worked on a single bios.... The fan curve, yeah excactly, fan curve do they even have one?!???????!! It seems they make it more and more extreme, fragile for every bios update.
As you said, easier to trigg and temps to trigger it just falls to idle temps.


Anyone who have built custom pc's with fans knows how a real fan curve should look like... Could just as well be dead silent, turned off up to 75-80 degrees and under heavy load be turned on to deal with potential heat.

This laptop is lacking a fan curve and makes them spin all the time.
I watched a 1080P X264 movie yesterday (yes that's all my laptop can take for the moment) temps was 53 degrees C and fans very spinning like crazy, like a jet plane for 2-4 seconds, then to medium speed 2-4 seconds and then back-up all the time for the entire movie. WHY DO YOU NEED FANS AT 50 DEGREES DELL? Srsly.


I get your frustration