XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread

hahaha. Similar issues for 3 generations of XPS laptops.

Finally, the XPS is due for a full redesign, although that may be delayed by Intel's shenanigans. Maybe Dell will sort DPC latency, sleep, thermal, and power throttling issues with the redesign.

 

Stop using ThrottleStop for a few days and see if errors stop. Either way, you will have a better idea of root cause.

Excessive undervolt is classic cause of crashes. But maybe some of your other settings are a problem. After your test, you can post images of all your ThrottleStop settings on the ThrottleStop thread for more help.

 

You XPS owners ain't alone

 

Same with my old Latitude E5450.

I am almost tempted to buy a "gaming" laptop next time around, to see if the grass really is as green as I remember it. Probably not.

 

I don't think gaming specs guarantee good DPC latency. You either need to try before you buy or buy a computer from one of the "performance" vendors (e.g. company that configures and sells computers for professional musicians).

Those vendors don't sell all the pretty laptops (e.g. Dell XPS). They typically charge a premium of a several hundred dollars. But you get guaranteed performance and don't have the hassle of trying to DIY. Check the pro audio or pro video forums for recommended vendors in the US, Canada and Europe.

 

This is what's happening, right infront of our eyes.
Dell: This is not how you treat your customers.
This is the same hardware affected by the connected standby scam they're trying to cover up too.
I wonder how they're faring in the corporate world...I mean, there have to be companies buying these machines in bulk...somewhere.

Look, if Dell won't listen to us, on this forum or elsewhere (Reddit, in particular is very telling), perhaps they will listen to their corporate customers.
Imagine the nightmare of dealing with THOUSANDS of these machines in (a single or multiple) deployment(s).
The maintenance overhead is just nuts.

 

The XPS15 isn't an Enterprise model though.

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While the XPS15 sure has its amount of DPC problems, do we know if other simiösr devices are actually better? Recall the ThinkPad P52 was wastly superior though.

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Oh. My. God. This is a nightmare. A truly Kafkaesque one.

 

I'd been eyeing the XPS 9750 for awhile, and a deal popped up a few days ago that I just couldn't pass on. Refurbished XPS 15 with an i7, 1TB SSD, 32GB RAM, FHD screen, W10 Pro license.... for $1220 USD (bfeore tax). That's... stupidly cheap.

Well, I'm glad I ordered it BEFORE checking this owner's thread, because the issues you guys are talking about here would have scared me off from the purchase, even at that ridiculous price. Heck, I almost canceled the order in-transit after realizing what a sh*tshow we're dealing with. Perhaps it is priced appropriately after all.

But, it's still enroute and should arrive by this weekend, so I have < 21 days to determine if I like the device enough to "just deal with" these known issues. I'm not going to hold my breath hoping that Dell will resolve any of them, so the keep/return decision will be based upon my direct experience over the next couple of weeks.

So, to that end, I'm compiling a list of the major known issues to be on the lookout for. Here's what I have so far:

-No S3 support, and Modern Standby fails miserably
-BIOS >= 1.7 have constant fan spooling with any dGPU access, and now throttles at 74*C
-BIOS < 1.7 has the dGPU throttling when below 48*C
-Excessive/bugged DPC, resulting in audio issues (crackling/distortion?) and high latency
-Intermittent WiFi (no surprise from the Killer NIC... I already have an Intel 9260 ready to swap in if I keep the thing)
-Some QC issues resulting in high backlight bleed, coil whine, and creaky/squeaky keyboards.

Please let me know if I missed something. Thank you!

 

Personally, for my use case, I don't care much about the DPC issues.
I would really love to have a working S3.

Actually, I haven't had audio crackling in the headphones since some driver updates last month. Are you guys still experiencing cracklings?

I never had a problem with the Killer NIC. Haven't quite understood why everybody suggests to swap it ASAP.

 

So i deactivated Throttlestop. But the hang ups still occour. Just waited around 1 Minute until my fingerprint was recognized at login. Any suggestions?

 

From Frank on twitter, seven hours ago.

"We found a few more opportunities to improve/virtually eliminate the DPC latency so we took the time to implement them. We are completing our final validation of the BIOS solution. First week of May is the revised schedule for release. #worthit"

From here: https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/1113053967179747328

This is a weird game.

 

I would disable all of your startup items in task manager and then see what happens. If you don't have hangups then start enabling things one or two at a time and test that.

 

Do you have Intel XTU loaded by chance? If so reset all parameters (especially undervolt to zero). Then uninstall XTU. Then restart your laptop.

 

They have not idea. This Laptop is just an expensive toy ( ... and an abandoned ship.) For now “Do Not Buy”.

 

It depends on what you do with the laptop. For office related tasks it's great (aside from not having S3).

 

I got, again for the 4th time or so, another feedback from Dell about the fan issue since bios 1.7.0

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/akngpy/incompetent_dell_devs_answer_to_bios_170_fan/

The Dell person told me, they, again, cant reproduce it, and also got no other reports about it. Here are some awesome quotes:

I gave them all the info, all links, posts from other people who claimed having the same issue. I even gave them a video showing the issue, explaining everything, how to reproduce it ect, how it manifest itself.

"I see that all articles are regarding the fan issues with BIOS update 1.7. Currently, are you facing fan issues on your system with reference to the BIOS update 1.7 ?"

"I'm so sorry for the inconvenience caused. Currently do you have the fan/ temp readings from your system when it was on BIOS 1.7. I can get this escalated to engineering and get back to you with an update on this"

"We are awaiting an update from the engineering team on this. While they are working on it, I would like some information on this. Currently the latest BIOS available is 1.8.1. Have you come across these Fan related issues on this version of BIOS too?"

I told them before, that I spoke to people who have 1.8.1 ( https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/...-On-Off-Issue-on-Idle-dGPU/m-p/7190997#M23703 ) and it happens there too.

And another one, weird, Dell says there is no issue.


Dell forced me to update to 1.8.1 for no reason then:

"Hope you're doing well! We have an update from Engineering team. They have suggested completing the update to 1.8.1 and check if the issues persists on your system. If it does, do share the readings here. We will get this checked with engineering and also as per engineering BIOS downgrade is available till 1.5 Do get back to us if you have any queries on this"

I did so, fan problems still happend obviously with 1.8.1.

"Got it and thank you for the readings. I will share this with engineering stating it is seen in 1.8.1 Certainly, you revert to 1.6"

"I appreciate you for taking the time in working with us on this. We will let engineering know on the fan activity issues on dGPU with BIOS 1.8.1"

Then after some more days, I got this...

"Good day to you! I have got an update from the Product Engineering team. They have suggested to perform a few additional troubleshooting steps. Please let me know when I can take access to your computer and perform it."

I told them to... (bleep) because I wont give remote access to my PC. And that I also dont need help and that I am really angry at this moment, because I literally had enough with the cat and mouse play, and letting me show as a fool.

"I know this has been going on for a while now and your callout is justified. However, in order to fix this without any further ado, we'll need to troubleshoot further. Trust me we're doing our best to fix this and do not want to cause any inconvenience. Request you to give us one chance to work on this."

then after my outrage... and explaining again, that it is not an issue with my PC but with the bios, and how to reprocue it:

"Every feedback that is shared is very important for us as it helps us determine how best we can improve our products and services. We're working on this concern as well and this is why it was escalated to the Product team. I agree that this has been a difficult situation and I wish I could change it. But right now, the best I can do is troubleshoot this further. The team did work on this and have suggested a couple of steps that can fix the issue or will at least help us understand it better. I will not take more time. Please give me a chance."

... .... I said FINE, give me the "steps to fix this", "I am happy to listen " ... (yeah, sure, fixes...):

"Sure. Give me a few minutes."

"You can try the steps given below and share your findings: a. Update BIOS to the latest version 1.8.1: https://dell.to/2UlGbmX b. Set the power plan to balanced. To do the same, go to Power and sleep settings>Additional power settings>Balanced Ensure the AC adapter is connected and other external peripherals are disconnected. c. Perform a clean boot and here's the link for the instructions, https://dell.to/2UmFMAJ You can try these and drop me a message. Depending on the outcome, I will suggest the remaining steps."

... ... ... SERIOUSLY!? .... that were the fixes he/she spoke about? power plan to balance? ( : you cant even CHANGE the damn power plan if the laptop uses modern standby!!!

I did him the favor, deactivating all non MS services and programs with a "clean boot"... fan issue still persists, what a SURPRISE (because it is the bios behavior).

"Thank you for the performing the steps. I now recommend trying the step given below to see if that makes a difference: Reset both Nvidia & Intel graphics to defaults using the respective application and check (For eg: For Nividia there is master reset which is available in the Nvidia application) If you need any help with this step, I can remotely access you system and perform it."

..............

" We are expecting these steps to fix the issue as the Product team already tested this system with 1.8.1 BIOS in our labs and the issue was not observed."

........ !!!!!!!!!!!!

"Hi there! The previous agent has completed her shift and I will be taking over. My name is Ronnie. Do give me a few minutes to review the recent conversations and case notes. I shall get back to you." ........... : D

"Still reviewing your case. I'd need some more time here. Bear with me in the interim."

"I am here to help you. Should it need to be escalated to the engineering team or if it already has, their input would be considered the next course of action. Our intent would be to resolve issues called out by the end user and if there is no immediate fix, it would be rolled out in the forthcoming driver updates."

"I rely on their expertise. I appreciate your knowledge in this field as well. As mentioned by the previous agent, the P.E team have tried this on a Lab system (BIOS 1.8 with the latest windows) & was not able to replicate the issue. The next suggested step is to re-install the Operating System as a clean image, with no partitions ( if any ). Let me know if you need the steps for this. Also, please have your system data backed up before you proceed. Also, once re-imaged do not update any drivers or install Windows updates. Let me know your observations with a "bare O.S " ."

"I am not denying or neglecting your analysis from other customers here. I'd want you to run the suggested steps for me to take your observations back to the engineering teams. They may need to escalate it further to the Product Group team to confirm on the next set of action. This is a lengthy process, I understand. Our intent stays the same to provide you with a suitable resolution."

... I just have enough. I feel so damn tired, broken, angry, upset and powerless. I just dont want to try anymore.

Everytime the same. And letting me stay there as a fool, who doesnt know how a computer works. And then always the same answer, "we couldnt reproduce it", where every onwer of the 9570 I spoke to with bios >= 1.7.0 was able to reproduce it in minutes.

And the worst? If there really will come out a DPC fix with an upcoming bios... that would be useless, because I dont want those damn fans always toggle on/off all the time, for nothing.

It is clear at this point, they know about it, because they obviously implemented it, and wont want to revert it, and their dev team just lies to their customer support team. which is really a shame and sad btw.

There is a simple proof, that this is bios related, because with >= 1.7.0 the moment you turn on the laptop from off state, the fans spin on. This is not happening with <= 1.6.0. Why? Because the dGPU is polled too when you turn on the laptop.

I just have enough of this.

 

For office related tasks you don't need a Premium Laptop and when you buy a Premium Laptop and pay a Premium Price you should receive a "bug free" system and not a Laptop with Premium Bugs. That is only my opinion and for now and for me it is only an expensive toy.

They have a Super XPS-9570 because they don't see any bug...
Maybe we could ask if they sell us their Lab laptops

 

You said the laptop is a toy when it does quite a few things very well. I don't know if you've seen the business class laptops, but the XPS is no more premium than any of them (including the cost). Sadly there is not a perfect laptop out there in my opinion. Every laptop has some sort of issue, including the XPS...

 

Yes, as I said in my opinion it is an expensive toy and full of bugs. Other my laptops work very good, the best until today was The MacBook Pro 15 2015 and the MBP 15 2016-2017-2018 was another expensive toy. I stop here because for me it is enough.

 

Yeah, A "Nightmare" whitch never STOP
How Dell cripple performance explained by....

 

No, i don't have Intel XTU installed.
I am still on bios Version 1.2. Should i upgrade to 1.6?

 

FYI: Windows( or Dell) is pushing the 1.8.1 firmware through windows update.

 

@ abujafar I have deactivated that of course, otherwise I would throw the laptop in the trash. You can deactivate bios updates through Windows in the bios under security or how its named, but I also have deactivated driver updates via Gpedit.

 

Maybe they are confusing Frank's ThinkPad with the XPS15?

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I also noticed this but not sure what it actually does as no actual update seemed to take place

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Will this be the last *glimmer of hope*? Aka half-baked working? At least they haven't cut the cable Half-Baked, can mean so much


Dell pledges a new date for fixing the XPS 15 9570's DPC latency issues

 

I don't think...

 

If you dont have any issues I would stay on 1.2, because it had no dGPU throttle. For your freezing issue, did you try the Toshiba SSD firmware updates Dell provided? Did you update Intel RST drivers? Clean Windows 10 install?

@ abujafar Here, I had disabled this long time ago in the bios, to block bios updates through Windows updates. It is on per default.

 

Well they sure know how to half bake hehe...
With sth like DPC latency I would assume there may be several causes not just one (inappropriately written low-level pieces of code that run for too long without taking a break).
And perhaps now and then they do test a little bit before releasing after all

 

But have we actually seen WiFi and good DPC on any laptop besides the workstation ones?

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I installed the Intel RST Driver and did the FW update for the Toshiba drive. Only thing I havent done is a clean install of Windows 10. Is it best to do a clean install?

 

@Venom12 I just bought a 9750 and was shocked how much crud came on it. A lot of that is windows 10's fault, too, not just Dell's, but it's pretty ridiculous. FWIW, I intend on doing a clean install (assuming I keep the device). I've also read several other 9750 owners say they saw positive results after doing a clean install too.

 

Folks, I have this odd electronic interference noise coming from the 9750 whenever I plug-in the AC adapter.

It's not coil whine. Edit: or is it? It sounds like a dot matrix printer going bananas, and slightly higher pitched.

Has anyone heard of this issue? I am thinking it could be a bad voltage regulator or something.


edit: it's really hard to tell where it's coming from, but I'm thinking it's near the top center of the base of the unit, behind the function keys. Here's a video of the sound -- no video, just audio. Note, I unplug the AC adapter mid-way, then re-plug it in, you can hear the sound goes away when unplugged

 

@bfishman That is coil whine. Coil whine isnt just one high linear tone, it can be several frequencies also in a period pattern loop, or "static noise". Mine does it too.

 

@maffle Thanks for your response. I had assumed coil whine was the high pitched continuous tone directly associated with fan speed. This 'static' noise happens regardless of the fans being on or off (though, who am I kidding, the fans on this thing practically never turn off ). How confident are you this is the same phenomena you describe?

Additional observation: the static noise becomes nearly continuous - as opposed to the semi periodic morse code pattern - whenever I am actively two-finger scrolling on the touchpad.

Either way, I think I can deal with it, as it's only noticeable in a quiet environment... My concern is more that there is a faulty component that could lead to cascading failures down the line. I only have a one year warranty on this model.

 

@bfishman No, coil whine has nothing to do with fans. It is produced by coils (inductors) so it is always connected to current draw and therfor CPU/RAM/GPU/SSD state (idle, working, ect). So of course it is repeating then, to hold the voltage, especially in idle state it is more of a "slow" repeating pattern then continuous. Again the touchpad scenario changes the CPU state so the tone changes of course. The 9570 actually has a more annoying frequencies when it is in pure idle state, than in work state. I was able to reduce the static noise by putting thermal pads over the coils, that absorbed the noise a lot. I dont hear it anymore, other if I put my ear on the chassis.

 

Oh! thank you for the clear explanation.

Assuming I keep this thing (leaning more and more towards keeping it despite the as of yet unresolved issues from Dell... It really is a nice laptop), I am absolutely planning to repaste it, so I'll see if I can identify the inductors that are making the noise and put some pads on them. Did you turn the machine on with the motherboard exposed in order to determine which coils were making the noise?

 

Youll find these type of coils in a laptop:


Here is one for example in the 9570 next to the RAM, I havent taped that one:


Other side:

The most noise mostly comes of this area:

But also lots of SSDs have coil whine
This is mine right now

 

Holy smokes you went to town with those pads! Thanks for taking the time to post those pictures, I will refer to them when it's time to do the job on mine. I was planning on padding up the VRM area but was concerned about restricting air flow... Did you mod your fan heatsink fins as well?

Also, aside from reducing cpu/gpu temps under load, what noticeable effects did all of this thermal modding have? You mentioned you reduced coil whine, assumedly through basic acoustic dampening with the pads... But did padding the VRM, SSD, and SODIMMs actually seem to help with the idle temps and seemingly incessant idle fan spin ups?

I ask because I don't think I'm going to do the modding until I decide to keep the laptop, but part of my decision to keep the laptop is based on whether or not I can affect some of these noise issues with modding. Kind of a chicken and the egg scenario.

Thanks for the help and pics.

 

Yes, both. The pads seem to absorb the frequencies really well, but more important too, padding the PCH (right side of the last photo) and also the SSD (left side) will reduce fans going on/off/on/off while doing mild work like Chrome, watching a video ect. Dell is just retartded, because the fan logic calculates in the SSD and also the PCH temperatures, into if fans go on and off. The irony here is, there is no air flow to the SSD and PCH, basically there is no air flow anywhere inside. The fans just transport the heat of the heat pipes away for the CPU and GPU. The pads for SSD and PCH basically are to connect them to the chassis and therefor transport away heat.

 

Thank you good sir, that is just music to my ears. It's a shame that Dell produced such a beautiful laptop and then dropped the ball on QC and something as user-facing (and un-affectable, for most normal consumers) as the fan behavior. I'm just glad their mistakes can be largely ameliorated by the savvy owner.

Once I make the modifications, I will come back and report on the results to further validate your findings. Thank you again.

 

The internal speaker was no longer recognized as a sound device, I had to uninstall the audio driver for it to come back. Weird.

 

WTF! this is way too much. (thanks for warning btw). They make it harder to stay on 1.2.2 .. I hope windows cant update bios with password set, even dell bios update utility asks for bios password to perform update.

 

The new XPS-15 (9580) is around the corner. The DPC latency issue will be solved on the new one... Is it true?!?

https://twitter.com/Andrius27122010/status/1120809922755813377
https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/1120769128636256257

So do I need to buy the new one? No because as promised I will no buy a Dell anymore.

 

Hi... Is there a big difference with the 9570 and 9550? I have the 9550 and I need some good reasons why I should upgrade to the 9570... Thanks

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/23/...placement-fixed-pricing-features-release-date


Well, this was bound to happen. Personally, I am not interested in buying a new laptop until the industry moves to 7nm for "45W" parts (H series).
This is even more important if Dell, and also everybody else, don't redesign their cooling solution. Almost all are inadequate because the chips aren't really "45W" parts anymore.
We should really thank AMD for the progress in the past two years. Without AMD we would still be with quad-core chips.

 

You won't get better cooling as long notebook manufacturers continue shrink on chassis size. You can't get better and better cooling solution the thinner the notbook chassis being. You simply can't beat the laws of physics. + Increase some important numbers won't make it any better.

 

Maffle is our last chance for a working BIOS. I only come here to see when he will finally beat them into resolving the issues

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I agree with you. In fact, I believe that the "solution" to thermal problems will most likely come over time from the adoption of the 7nm process, not from improvements in the cooling department (ala razer blade 15 vapor chamber).

I also believe in the power of maffle's wrath.