New Dell Studio 17 announced (Studio 1745/47)

The throttling is is one of available POWER, the system throttles back, to protect against undervoltage.. NOT overheating!!!! While computer components have a rather high tolerance for heat, they are easily damaged by undervoltage.

Dell KNOWS the PS is inadequate, this is why the throttling is there, as a safety measure.

If you run the throttlestop software WITH the stock 90w PS, you WILL damage your LT.. not might... WILL.

However, increase the PS.. and the system will be able to draw the extra power it NEEDS in the first place, hence the 130w PS solution.

 

dynamically or constantly... when more power is consumed, more heat is produced. and if this happens only when you play a big game, then it is, but you produce more heat while you do this and this might be dangerous for the machine...
i did not say it actually IS dangerous but more poser consuming means more heat, thats the way it is...

absolutely right!

 

believe it or not, some people choose to use the power of the sytem they buy, which is why i opted to upgrade. Not just srufing the web. Thanks for coming out.

 

I can't see how the extra power the system draws under full gpu/cpu load will harm the computer. It will draw more then 90 watts on battery power, right?

 

I don't know any of this to be FACT. but here is my logic: the system I have ordered, with the upgrades I have included have been documented to be able to pull up to 140-145 watss on a 150 watt adapter and with throttling disabled

145/90=160% of the power which this laptop was tested for. WILL it damage the computer? maybe not. It could run great with no problems. but it definately will run hotter then the laptop was disgned for. the cooling system dell has implemented could be inadequate when dealing with the extra heat.

I don't expect things to just suddenly fail. Intel has a very good chip which will shut itself down when too hot ( I believe anything over 100 C). The fact is heat is a computers major enemy and long term exposure to higher temperatures than the system is designed for could very well result in a much shorter life span of your components.

Dell reps themselves have suggested to users that use throttlestop and a higher wattage adapter to use a cooling mat. Why would they do that if there was zero risk?

Vidguy may spend all day using his computer for surfing the web, reading email etc. great, then maybe you should have saved yourself some money and bought a netbook or lowend computer which would have done those things at a fraction of a cost instead of buying an i7 because it was new and cool.

Me? I plan on running multiple VMs, heavy video encoding, mild photo editing with large image files and yes, some mild gaming too. All these things, when done for any significant length of time will result in increased temperature.

And Vidguy, as to why I am not canceling rather then "threatening" to return it. Not that is really your business, but I have preorderd the Asus g73. Seeing as how it is not yet released, and shouldn't be until february, I am going to use this crippled laptop for the 30day period I am entitled to here in canada, document all the problems, file a BB complaint and then return it at the latest available time just because I can. Who knows Maybe dell will pull a miracle out of their and actually do something about this problem and I won't have to, but I am doubtful.

 

Not sure, but the combined with new ati graphics (more than 20 watts less than before...) the throttling issue should not be a problem.
Read my recent post about it (post #976).

Second, reviews show that the i5 arrandale consume significantly less power than the i7 clarksfield in notebooks.

 

hey guys, I'm interested in buying on of these 1745 now that they are in the outlet to replace my ooold desktop .

How does this config sounds for ~$800 refurb.? (Want a future proof laptop that I can uses for photography/photoshop,light gaming,and all the other everyday stuff)

Is this config overkill?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Memory
4 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz (2 DIMMs)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard Disk Drive
500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Video
512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Color
Black Chainlink
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laptop Screen
17.3 inch HD+ (900p) Bright LED Display with TrueLife
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Base
Studio 17 - 1745 Laptop
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Camera
Integrated 2.0 MP webcam with dual digital array microphone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hardware Upgrade
6 Cell, 56WHr Lithium-Ion Primary Battery
90W Adapter
Standard Keyboard
125V Power Cord
No WWAN Option
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Media Bay
6X Slot Load Bluray (BD) Combo Drive (BD Read Only)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Network Interface Card
Dell 1397 802.11B/G Wireless Mini Card
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Upgrade
Windows Live
Microsoft Works 9.0
64BIT Operating System DVD
64BIT Operating System CD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Processor
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8700 (2.53GHz, 3MB L2 Cache, 1066MHz FSB)

 

No, your old machine is not superior. Problem is very well known right now and basically consists of 2 issues (neither has to do with thermal management): 1)90W PSU is just not enough for demanding apps and 2)BIOS is set not to draw more then 90W. it recognizes 130W PSU but won't draw appropriate power and starts throttling. Throw in the $20-30 PSU and ThrottleStop and it's a great laptop. I really don't see the problem here, especially now that the more serious issue with the "7 beeps of death" has been resolved.

 

Talk to unclewebb on XPS forums, he may give you some help to get the program running in Linux (not sure here).

 

been reading this thread...now I understand why there are so many 1745 in the outlet

 

I want that video card with the quad-core i7 (I believe the i7 here is dual-core).

 

Yes, it absolutely draws more then that on battery, there are no throttling issues playing on battery, and the issue is with the BIOS and PSU. I have taken heat measurement of the system after running SuperPi and furmark at the same time (and after round of DA) and haven't seen any high temps, everything seems well within the norm of CPU/GPU specs.

 

Umm... no they won't result in temperatures beyond well in spec on the CPU and GPU. I measured temperature while gaming and while running SuperPi/Prime95/FurMark/FutureMark06 ( one cpu and one graphics marks at same time). Basically, you are absolutely wrong here. Go read the XPS thread, if laptop is drawing appropriate power from battery, how the heck do you expect it to suddenly blow up drawing same power from a PSU? That's complete BS.

Would I have preferred Dell to resolve the issue with BIOS update and send people free PSUs? Yes. Is the issue completely manageable? Yes. Does it prevent people from running apps as needed? No.

 

All i7's are quads.

 

Anyone know if a pa-15 (150 watt dell ac adapter) will work with the Studio 17?

 

Actually the newest i7 620 is a dual core which can run 4 threads. It is not a true quad core.

 

No, this is not correct for mobile platform. Arrandale i7 are dual-core.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_i7

Unfortunately there is no quad-core 32nm chip out at this time. I suspect we'll see one in the summer/fall time-period.

 

It will if it's 19v.

 

Great. I'll let everyone know how it works when I get the laptop with and load up throttlestop.

 

Cool. Are you just getting 150W or 130W as well? The reason I like PA-4E is that it's fairly compact for a 130W brick. I am thinking 130W PSU should be enough, but I may get 150W down the road if that proves to be the way to go.

 

I was under the impression it was still throttling while on battery, just a lot less. Also, I do not believe the battery is able to put out the full 130-140 watts that it has been reported to draw while unthrottled via Throttlestop?

edit: Also, never once did I imply it would suddenly blow up. I specifically said that the long term exposure to higher temperatures then dell has tested for could result in lower life expectancy. We all know dell tries to use the cheapest solution possible in most cases. I am sure they designed the cooling system to just adequately cool their throttled systems, nothing further. But if my original assumption about temps is wrong, then that is not relevant

This is one case I would be very please to be wrong....

 

From the XPS thread, it does not appear it's throttling on battery. That said, I may have missed that, but only saw issues with throttling on PSU (without throttlestop).

Btw, if you are thinking about buying, checkout the new HP Envy 15 config. HP dropped the price $500 and with new Arrandale i5-540 with ATI 5830 (probably 30% performance over 4650), you could get fully loaded Envy for under $1500 (1080p screen, i5-540, 4GB RAM, 500GB drive, dual batteries, etc...). The bonus is that with switchable graphics and battery slice, it will probably last 6-7 hours on batteries or maybe even a bit more.

Plus, without the slice it's under 6 lbs and 1" thick. This or the biggie Asus G73j Super Stealth Bomber P) would be very very tempting for me if I did not buy the Studio (beyond 30 day return now).

 

It doesn't look much larger. Here is a post concerning the 150W size vs the PA-4e.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5722499&postcount=278

 

I don't get it. the Montveniea Core 2 Duo, ships with a 90 Watt PS, techincally the GM 45 PM 45 Chipset DDR2 RAM, All over in total, use more watts, and run hotter than the 1747. But they have No throttling problems.

Here comes the Core i7 brand new 55 Intel chipset DDR3 RAM which uses 1.5 volts DDR2 uses 1.8v, In total the 1747 Core i7 runs cooler, and uses less Watts. But for some reason which DELL is ignoring/ covering up. These machines with the 90 Watt PS have Throttling problems. Lack of Voltage etc. Which is very dangerous.

Its not logical, for the 1737 uses more watts, running hotter, is just fine with 90 watt PS. But the 1747 using less watts, running a little cooler, has problems with the 90 watt PS. And now DELL is giving 1747 owners a hard time getting 130 watt or 150 watt power supplies.

somethings off.

 

For anyone whose interested, i found a source of 1747 second hard drive caddy:

http://newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_3&products_id=270

They dont seem to have much stock though.

 

According to the support pages of Dell, the new ati 5000 gpu's should not be available with the clarksfield i7 (=quadcore). But only time will tell if it's true and in which parts of the world this will apply.

Last time I want to repeat it, but there are i7 who are quadcore's and i7 who are dualcore's. I know it's some bad labeling of Intel, but here's a list to keep it somewhat simple.

Quadcore (clarksfield)
i7-7xxQM
i7-8xxQM
i7-9xxQM (Extreme edition)

Dualcore (Arrandale)
i7-6xxUM
i7-6xxLM
i7-6xxM

Basically, evere i7 with the following number equal to 6 or lower are dualcore, the rest is quadcore.

 

Nice find (added some rep for that! )

 

I think this will stay a mystery, sadly enough. But this little beast was not the ideal plan for a laptop. Intel and OEM companies just wanted to be the first with mobile quadcore laptops (with 8 threads) before they launched arrandale. I think it was meant as a big show off (against AMD). It definitely worked, but who the hell puts such a power beast in a laptop? Okay it's more power efficient than processors before, but it still has to draw a lot of power to give everything it has (which is enormous).
If you really want mobile quadcore's like this, then I'm afraid you'll have to wait for Sandy Bridge to come out. Which will be at least early 2011 (and don't forget to add the usual delays of Intel to that...).

If you don't need the maximum power of the quadcore i7's why choose for it when there's the arrandales (i5 and i7-6xx) now? The i5-540 gives almost the same power as the i7, but consumes much less because of it's smaller die (32 vs 45 nm). I'm definitely sure about it, that almost everyone doesn't need the i7 quadcore's. The world does not only consists of heavy programmers and video-editors... Still for them I hope they find a proper solution though.
Golden rule: don"t spend money on specs you probably don't need. Except if you're the kind who likes to brag and has too much money to spend...

 

One small question, I'm thinking about ordering a Studio 17 1745, but this thread makes me a bit worried.

My order will be with a P7450 processor, not i7. Is there still a chance that I will get the issues mentioned in this thread?

 

It would surprise me. There has not been any complaint (similar to those with the i7) with the core 2 duo processors. You should be fine.

 

http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/12/02/dell-on-laptops-and-throttling.aspx

In this link there is mentioned similar problems with other dell series with "old" processors. Doesn't this mean that it is a general Dell issue?

Personally, I have never had any problems with Dell laptops, thats why I'm looking at a studio 17.

 

I would doubt that. Than almost al laptops would have problems
The studio 17 only has those issues under extreme use ( both cpu and gpu) with the i7 processors.
And throttling is not a new phenomon. It has always been there to avoid the laptop to overheat. But is should only be limited and not as extreme like with the i7 studio 17's.

On that post it looks like it are mostly people with high-end lattitude's and so on which can be very powerhungry under extreme use. Some people overrate the throttling issue. As previously said it is only a problem in extreme conditions, which is only the case for few (programmers and video-editors for example).

I'm sure you'll be more than happy with the studio 17. If you're not comfortable buying it, there are plenty other 17" core 2 duo laptops...

 

A BIOS revision (A04)for the 1747 has been put out today:
http://support.euro.dell.com/suppor...temID=STUDIO1747&os=W732&osl=en&catid=&impid=

I have not received mine yet to try it. Does anyone know what it will do?

 

Out of stock. Sent them an email asking when they are expecting to get more!

 

Wait and get i5 when discrete graphics are available with it!

 

Does anyone know when this will be available?
The discrete graphics will be a step down from ATI HD4650, or will it perform better? Lower power consumption?

 

Performance will be a bit better (more transistors and pipelines). But the lower power consumption is definitely the big improvement. And it will have dx11 off course.

Ati 4650 (55nm)
TDP = 35 watt
514 million transistors
Core speed 550 Mhz
128-bit memory
320 pipelines
3dMark06 (average) = 6370
3dmark vantage (average) = 2456

Ati 5650 (40nm)
TDP = 15-19 watt (according to a review by notebookjournal) and 10-15 watt (according to rumors) but it will also depend if it gets underclocked or not...
627 million transistors
Core speed 450-650 Mhz
128-bit memory
400 pipelines
3dMark06 (average) = 7343
3dmark vantage (average) = 3445

According to notebookcheck it will have about the same performance as the ati 4670 and Nvidia GTS 250M.

In comparison the Nvidia GT 330M, which you can find on a lot of new laptops, scores around the speed of the 4650, but has more power needs than the ati 5000 series (even being produced on 40nm like the new 5650).

Note: according to Intel the arrandale (which have their own integrated gpu) will be able to switch off the dedicated graphics when needed and turn on the integrated Intel graphics as a standard feature. This should reduce power consumption even more when not using graphic-intensive programs. The new intel gpu has the same strenght as the ati 4200 or Geforce 8400 with extreme low power consumption.

 

According to a German forum it reduced the temperatures from 60°C to around 45°C and he has been able to play games without noticeable throttling.
So the new bios is an improvement it seems...

 

ASUS is claiming, 12 hour battery life soon. Apple already delivers 8 hours. Why? Because of, having dedicated or discret graphics, PLUS, a Intel internal GPU which is in use most of the time.

DELL needs something like this.

32nm Core i7 using only 35 watts
an ATI 5650 using 19 watts (for gaming purposes)
and a Internal Intel GPU, in use most of the time to save battery life.

Invisible to the user, just like Intel's Core 2 Duo and Speed Step, 80% of teh time your 2.5Ghz CPU is running at 800mhz or 1.6Ghz.

There no need for 100% full GPU power usage at all times.

 

Hmm... What the heck, will try it tonight.

 

Very interested in what you find with the new Bios

 

Wow. I had my claim escalated, and they still could not tell me when I would get my computer. I had someone from the resolution department tell me that the parts for my computer are still back ordered and they have not heard back from the manufacturer. But assured my my order would be put on highest priority.

My intentions when the machine gets here aside, this is ridiculous. I mean, I am pretty sure I could have sourced the parts out, had them delivered and built the darn thing myself at this rate.

What really grings my gears is that people are still being given the standard EDDs when Dell knows darn well they are not going to make those dates. If they cannot fill my order, placed 6 weeks ago, why would they just issue standard EDD's knowing full well they are NEVER going to make them. There should be some sort of consumer lawy protecting people from this type of manipulation.

 

They already have their long-lasting laptops (the new inspiron 17 for example, said to get more than 8 hours). Soon every manufacturer will have those, I mean you only need the arrandale + ati video combination, or even skip the ati dedicated video en they'll promise you longer battery life!
Wait a month and they will al say how they managed to make the ultimate laptop with long-lasting battery. But they did nothing at all, Intel and Ati did the work, did just put in in their laptops with a higher capacity battery to make even a stronger impression.

 

Wow, that's sad. I ordered around the same time as well. I've gotten 3 push backs on my estimated delivery date so far. I've got an EDD of 1/20. I expect that one to get pushed back as well too.

 

Just thought I'd chime in. A coworker just received his 1745 last week with the i7 820 processor. It died after about 3 days of use, just beeps a couple times on startup. Luckly Dell support is pretty good and they should be fixing it this week.

 

The fix for this is to take out CMOS batteries (supposedly new BIOS update fixes the issue, maybe even the just released A04). There are some posts along with a link to a workaround on Dell forums earlier in the thread.

 

So I just wanted to confirm, in the US - went to the accessories part of the website and placed an order for this part number. Everything shipped yesterday, and I received it today... interposer was correct and bracket was correct, however, it did not have the proper screws. Just got off the phone with dell and they are shipping 7 of the proper screws for another $15.00... so if you need the 2nd hard drive caddy this is the one (minus screws)

 

Do you happen to have the part number for the screws?

Also, the only thing I can pull up with that part number is "Refurbished Hard Disk Drive Bracket":

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...ctdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=J7P67

 

That's what I ordered and I got the correct bracket and interposer... no dice on the screws, I just have to trust that the rep knows what he is talking about... I should have them Thursday - I'll post what I get. He claimed that there was no part number, but I'll let you know what on the pack list.

 

just updated and... it looks like the new bios version didn't change anything for me...

run 3dmark06 right before updating it and got 6112 3DMarks
(6125 3DMarks without PS with power-settings all up to max performance, just btw)
temps were around 75-80° at its peaks

after updating the bios to version A4 i also ran 3dmark06 and got 6127 3DMarks with around 80° peak temp

seems like it didn't change anything about the trottle bug, but hopefully at least the 7 beep bug (didn't encounter it myself so can't tell)