*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Remember Conductonaut it's a mix of indium, gallium and tin alloys. After having it sit in the syringe for a couple years gallium content might float to the surface, due to it having a lower density g/m3 than tin and indium. Probably just needs to be stirred and mixed to achieve same consistency again.

 

after many laps I will buy an i9 10900kf and
Gigabyte Z490 AORUS MASTER

apex
apex disappointed me .... just marketing

 

I gave it my normal two finger shake up, but since it was new maybe there wasn’t enough room in the syringe to move about. I’ll give it maximum retraction along with the missing droplets from use Providing room in a few days (might as well let the ihs cure from normal use now in my system.).

 

You need to warm up the liquid metal for the reaction. Pour the contents into a ceramic container, or something that can handle heat and get it above 80c.
Then stir and mix for a few mins, and in the end, when its not burning hot, use the TG syringe to suck it all up.

Clean any tools/containers with rubbing alcohol before all of this, so that you reduce any impurities that might get introduced.

 

Relearning the "joys" of X99 overclocking. The 6950X is a flame throwing molten lava kind of chip. I forgot how unforgiving this platform is.

 

I took the number one spot - https://hwbot.org/submission/4436937_

 

This is what I am using now instead of Conductonaut. It seems really good, like the original Liquid Ultra before Coollaboratory messed it up. I've got it on my turdbook CPU and GPU and on my 7980XE. Good stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S8VK1NL

And, these are awesome for applying liquid metal... way better than cotton swabs (thanks Brother @Falkentyne for steering me onto them)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MEC5084

 

I ordered both of these to try since this last syringe of Conductonaut is bad. I had other syringes from 2017 and this last one from 2017 sat for a few years before use and worked fine. But this singular March 2018 vial is grainy and watery and just runs everywhere. Even if I put a razor thin coating on an IHS, I tilt it even 30 degrees and it starts to pool and run downward. I found a few searches from others who had bad batches, and they had the same problem. Like silver watery fluid with tiny little gritty balls in it. It isn't worth the effort to try and reconstitute it if that's the problem and just order fresh.

9th gen lids: Stock 9900k lid vs Rockit Cool vs BartX. Rockit Cool is taller than the stock lid but not in the BartX's neighborhood.



After Delid before and after clean up (Plastic Razor, Fitz polish):

 

I am pretty sure you're going to be happy with it. I don't know what the deal is with TG, but I have had bad batches of Conductonaut and Kryonaut. Seems their manufacturing is inconsistent.

How did you get your CPU PCB that clean? That looks amazing. No trace of the original sealant. I don't think I have ever been able to get one to look that clean before, even using acetone. No matter how much elbow grease I use, I can always see some sort of evidence where the original sealant used to be.

You also did an excellent job of removing all of the original solder.

 

Here is my exact delid process I've used for sometime (updated for 9th gen STIM):

I usually have everything laid out ready to go and let the CPU heat up (even throw a few benchies at it).

Immediately take it out and pop the lid. I've found even back to 6th gen using this method there is rarely that loud "pop" and just a much softer dismount. This also seems to pick up more of the original sealant on the IHS (Of course if you're keeping the IHS, well....there's more work for you). I used to use a metal razor to delid early on, but I find the Rockitcool (or any other lock and twist tool if you prefer) to really make it much more straight forward.

I use the wooden tool that comes with the Rockitcool kits extensively. Trick is flat side I remove the initial large chunks of sealant pushing inside the perimeter out and work up very large pieces that take a lot with it.

I then usually start to work on the die. Before 9th gen that was an iso wipe and a quick polish with Fitz and then iso again. 9th gen is much more involved.

I swear by this plastic razor: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B073SWDYX9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
NOTE: I notice they've changed the design of the handle since I bought mine years ago which was much thicker and more rugged.

I settled in for some firm (but not overly so) horizontal then vertical (repeat) STIM removal with the plastic razor. Even when you think you're finished, you're usually not. Plastic gives you some peace of mind you most likely won't nick the die.

I use a drop of LM to remove the last film/layers the razor can't get. I applied my last drop of conductonaut from my 2017 bottle: spread, then started agitating it every few minutes over the course of 30 minutes.

Wiped it clean and had that last darkish layer and then used Fitz's polish (NOTE: you only need a TINY drop of this per wipe down) and a drop rag to polish till no longer black and I could see my reflection under light from end to end. You will know the edges are clean because they will actually reflect slightly green as they pick up the color from the PCB as you tilt it under light. Quick wipe with iso.

Then it's back to what's left of the sealant.

I use the flat side of the wooden tool to really work what's left till no matter what you can't get anymore of it up.

I then give the entire chip surface a firm wipe down with iso for a solid minute

Then I use the pointed side of the tool to gently work up the remaining bits with intermittent wipes of iso

Here's the final step if you want that ultimate clean and knock out two birds with one stone is I then use JB Weld 31314 ( https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ID8IUJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) silicon sealant and purposely cover what is left . Then do an initial LM application, mount the lid, let it seal/dry and and use the CPU for a day or two. This will bind a lot of what's left to the JB Weld for removal while also giving the IHS that good, initial cure of LM. I'm usually fully aware I'm going to redelid the chip in 24-72hrs. JB comes right off much easier than Intel's sealant too.


I know some just want to get the lid popped and go, but I like to know taking the extra time leaves you with a very clean chip. I'm OCD like that (hence the process I worked out above).

 

Sweet. Thanks, bro.

 

Now isn't that ironic? Look at the URL... https://community.hwbot.org/topic/196859-site-broken/

LOL...



Edit: They renamed the thread to something less accurate.

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/196879-weird-login-issue

 

Hmm. Now here's something that seems pointless. 1.6? Isn't that about the same as toothpaste?
Might see better results assembling the parts dry. Maybe it's a typo and should be 16?

https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3053219

 

Think they missed a marketing opportunity, its TWICE the thermal conductivity of concrete!

 

And, it's the same thermal conductivity as ice, so nobody can say it is false advertisement.




Hopefully, it's a typo. Otherwise, they are accepting money in exchange for garbage.

Although, that behavior (accepting money for garbage) seems to be the norm today.

 

I believe even IC Diamond advertise sub 2.0W/mK but it works on most BGA jokebook heatsink and temps seems better than stock paste.
XMG Laptop with 3950x chipset cannot upgrade to 4th gen Ryzen CPUs since it requires new mobo.

 

Since I have no plans to purchase anything with an AMD CPU or GPU that won't affect me, but it would suck if that were not the case.

 

I was planning to buy one with AMD 4900H but on most of the laptops RAM amount is limited by firmware to 32GB/64GB whereas the similar specced Intel can take 64GB+ on select models. Not to mention, some of them use soldered RAM which might mess up Dual Channel speed when using aftermarket RAM sticks.

 

That kinda sucks, but in a way it might be good. Since that 15.6" chassis needs to be a 17.3" with cooling better suited for HCC CPUs.

 

I have all types of EVGA bucks sitting around, so I ordered two (the max allowed atm) vials to give it a try and add them to my Island of Misfit TIM's.

 

My 10900K just got delievered, unfortuantely I have to wait for my motherboard until May 20 so I get to look at my new i9 box. Hoping to have some overclocking fun again soon! Right now I am desktop less technically since I sold off my board and 9900KS for a solid cash deal a couple days before the 10900K was officially launched.

 

Re-Re-Re-delidded w/ Silver King and BartX and now temps are where they should be @ 5.1. I accidentally left AVX = 0 (Since before it required AVX = 1 to pass CB20 and RB2.56 and temps pushed 90 on air), but with the delid, I can do AVX 0 and temps are still lower.

Definitely looking forward to seeing some early results!

 

Silver King came in last night, so re-re-re-delidded my 9900k and switched to BartX IHS since the Rockitcool IHS is saturated with the bad batch of conductonaut as a precaution.

I did a full silicon fixed install prepping for the ultimate move to the P870TM1 since I found before during the bad batch testing, with or without silicon (due to the slight gap with the rockitcool IHS and BartX IHS), temps were the same and the sealant did not interfere with temp results.

Before, temps rose towards 90 and I had to use AVX1 to get CB20 to run @ 5.1 + 1.335.
With BartX and Silver King, I'm able to run AVX0 @ 5.1 1.335, pull 7 more watts and STILL have lower temps than before (and a higher CB20 score).

 

Nice, looking like its running butter smooth with the BartX lid btw is that Joi wallpaper that I see?

 

Yep, it's right where I need it to be so the next step (after I square away a few laptop upgrades and repairs for the family) is to start in on the P870TM install and test.

Oh, yeah, that's definitely Joi.

 

Consider doing @ole!!! s vapor chamber mod, I think you could push P0/KS more than my R0.

 

I think I must have missed that mod by Brother @ole!!! (or I saw it and forgot).

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/p870tm-2nd-cpu-fan-port.812706/page-10#post-10993736

Direct die to vapor chamber, it's honestly the greatest mod for the P870. @ole!!!

 

Click on the links in @jc_denton sig about the extensive mods and work he's done on his TM1 to tame and blast the 9900kf in his unit.

I clicked on it the first time a few days ago and just went, "Whoa...."

 

Best part about the VC mod is that it's quite easy to implement, since there is no soldering or cutting involved. As the chassis already has a cutout for where the VC needs to be. Coincidence?

Most of the work lies in preparation and treatment of copper for LM. There is stuff like alignment, protection of the socket and replacing thermalpads for VRMs due to different z-height. And there is some sanding involved. The amount depends on how flat the base of your TM1 heatsink is, since this varies from unit to unit. And is required, since LM is used between the vapor chamber and TM1 base for thermal transfer.

Basically, you remove the ILM and c-clips from the heatsink, use some kapton tape to hold CPU down and protect socket. Then place the VC/TM1 combo on top of die and carefully tighten everything down.
Mounting pressure keeps everything in place and has enough clamp down force for the CPU to run without a direct die frame.

There are steps in between, but this is the sort of work involved in my version of the mod. @ole!!! original version is less janky, since the VC is soldered in place and is paired with a direct die frame. But solder has a limited thermal transfer compared to the LM.

 

Yes, that is very awesome stuff. After I went and looked I remember seeing it. I must have been extra tired yesterday. But, I am definitely impressed with the mods.

 

New consoles help design the PCs of the future, says Tim Sweeney, the CEO of Epic guru3d.com
By Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 05/15/2020 08:43 AM

Earlier this week Epic Games showed us a very impressive demo of Unreal Engine 5, which was recorded in real-time on a PlayStation 5, Tim Sweeney, the CEO of the company, praised the console. Among his sayings, he assured that the Sony platform is not only advanced in terms of storage management but that "it will help design the PCs of the future ".

 

I think what they actually meant was "design the PCs of the future for idiots" LOL. There is nothing impressive about the performance any console unless you're using very low-performance computers. The latest and greatest won't hold a candle to a healthy gaming PC, even if it is a turdbook.

 

So they won't keep doing downgrades due to consoles and finally stop with the 30hz games?

 

Hey, that's pretty impressive though that PS5 demo, the level of detail and shear number of triangles in the scenes...I'm not sure if PC can do that currently. I think it's due to the integrated storage of SSD and shared GDDR6, which is the main difference in comparison to PC.

 

very good to all I hope you are all very well ..... I wanted to ask you a question about the capacitors that the motherboards carry around the socket ......


it turns out that the hero xii had twice as many capacitors as the msi meg ace z490 ... what i don't know what quality they are ... is the big question i have before buying

 

I suspect the capacitors are of very high quality on all high-end enthusiast motherboards, but I do not know the technical details or part numbers.

 

msi ace meg z490 12 capacitors ????

hero xii 22 capacitors Japan made 10K metallic black solid polymer capacitors

 

Sounds like the better option to me. More and high quality. And, you know what you're going to get before you get it.

If MSI doesn't make the information available, it makes me wonder what they are trying to hide. I've never been a huge fan of MSI. They haven't given me any reason to be.

 

First, don't be absurd. The Unreal engine 5 is built for also designing PC games. The way they got around things is in the engine. So of course PCs can do it.

The real issue is GPU memory and size of the files to be pulled in. When discussing scene loading, pc can get nowhere near that ATM. But there are a couple techs that will help out with it after PCIe 5.0 and CXL become available (couple years off) related to cache coherence across items, Nvidia working on pulling directly from storage rather than cpu to storage to CPU (incorporating memory as needed) to GPU.

What makes it fast is the controller and speed and size of the NAND as well as the branch prediction to move needed elements from the nand to the ram, etc.

So it is amazing tech, but the ability to do so many triangles or level of detail is NOT beyond a PC, that is the engine. Being able to load into memory quickly for seamless transitions, that is beyond a PC.

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Well I don't think "absurd" really comes into it, it doesn't really add anything to your post. Well you acknowledge that PC can't do the quick loading into memory that PS5 will be able to do....which is was the fundamental difference in 'architecture' of the system that I was pointing out. Yes, I'm not totally sure if PC could render that many triangles, I'm not a software developer, but with my more than average knowledge of all things gaming & PC I found the number of triangles being rendered and the detail of the scenes being displayed very impressive, which made me suspect that PC would have trouble with that given I don't think I've seen such detail from PC. But anyway, enough litigation , there's stuff there that PC can learn from at least in terms of gaming, but I'm not sure there's a big enough driving force from the gaming side to make those changes happen, and any changes that do happen would have to be compatible with the other conventional uses of PC because afterall PC is not just gaming.

 

Look, the amount of memory on the consoles does not exceed what is on high end gaming rigs. So unless a texture file is so large that it is time dependent on moving it to memory, that isn't what is going on. As for GPU processing, a 2080 TI is very capable and the upcoming RDNA2 and 3000 Nvidia series will have more computational horsepower.

What was being shown off is an entirely new game engine, designed for PCs as well as consoles. That means this is coming to PCs as well. When have you ever seen Unreal engine solely on a console?

In fact, what they said is you are able to pull in photo- realistic images to be handled by "nanite," while the lighting engine is called lumen (hence lumen in the land of nanite).

This is about how it handles cad modeling, changes needs for texture mapping, etc. Nothing in it suggested Unreal Engine 5 is a PS5 exclusive. In fact, Unreal has the licensing so that you don't pay royalties until you get your first million, which with an engine like this, i can see many AAA software companies adopting it. If it were locked to consoles only, that cuts your revenue and likely you would not use that pricing structure for the game engine.

My point is, do not conflate the software engine as only being able to perform on the console. It was unveiled with the console, but not exclusive to it.

Edit: for example, fortnite will use Unreal engine 5 in 2021.

Edit 2: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/a-first-look-at-unreal-engine-5

Clearly states it will be out in full in 2021 for next gen and current gen consoles, pc, Mac, ios, and Android.

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What would be absurd is the notion that consoles are as powerful as decent computers. That's just ludicrous. They don't need to be and they cost a fraction to build. They're getting a lot better by console standards, but they're not on the same level as a respectable PC. It's all in the software and how it is able to access the available hardware, not that the hardware itself is particularly amazing compared to a PC. A console and all of its parts (hardware and software) serve a severely limited purpose, having no encumbrances with extra overhead, bloat, services, background processes, variety of applications, etc. to perform, and even multi-task, a myriad of purposes.

 

Yeah, I think I'd expect that Unreal engine on PC too. I am looking forward to the 3xxx release from NVidia, I wanna see what they can do. I'm also now interested in seeing what the new Unreal engine can do on PC, and to me it will be interesting how it will perform on PC relative to PS5. 3xxx to be released before end of year right?

 

Exactly. Not only that, these consoles use 8 core smt enabled zen 2 apus with the GPU being RDNA2 that is around the size of, or bigger than (depending on the console) a 5700 XT, IIRC. Now, GDDR6 is running both CPU and GPU as far as the memory goes, which is awesome. Also, it likely doesn't have an I/O chip, so faster with less latency (so performance would be more like Intel at the high end of gaming).

So it isn't like it is a slouch. The interface for the SSD crushes desktops, but that is because it uses like 12 or 16 PCIe 4.0 lanes without needing raid, IIRC. It's a beast on storage speeds, something PCs cannot do at the moment.

But other than storage, how it interacts with memory, and how the GPU calls for assets from the SSD, everything else comes down to what you said, which is overhead being gone on consoles and specific console hardware optimizations...

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Yes, Nvidia and AMD are waiting to see who unveils first, but both around October or November is the rumor mill (less cited rumor is 3070 and 3080 out in July or August, then 3080 Ti in October/ November).

I look forward to seeing what it can do also. It will have more loading scenes on PC, but roughly the same game play and easier to port to PC for Xbox because of DX12, DXR, and x86-64 cpu being used. AMD might even get actually optimized games in the future. Lmao!

But, in all seriousness, it is the SSD on consoles that is cool, which is because of like 12-16 gen 4 pcie lanes without raid

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So its an Asus Maximus 12 Extreme and a i9 10900k ES, with final stepping Q0.

Voltages needed at full load for non AVX prime95:
4.7 ghz: 1.012v
4.8 ghz: 1.048v
4.9 ghz: 1.073v
5.0 ghz: 1.128v
5.1 ghz: 1.178v
5.2 ghz: 1.235v
5.3 ghz: 100C or video games only (1.320v load voltage after vdroop or higher or BSOD. Prime95 is impossible)

Overclocking guide and review here
https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...-i9-10900k-overclocking-guide-tech-sheet.html

Thanks to Asus for supplying the system for review and evaluation! And to Asus Shamino especially. And Shamino and Elmor for their 7.8 ghz liquid helium overclock!

 

Great write up brother! +reps

 

Nice! Messing around with my 10900K and Asus Maximus Hero XII right now. I got it build into a new Lian Li case yesterday, was a couple days of lack of sleep trying to make sure I was going to be getting my motherboard on time.

This BIOS has so many new overclocking options that it's going to take me some time to figure it out. So far very happy, I got a great chip I think.