*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Yeah, if I pick a 9900k up, it will only be for a z170 mb. I will not buy one otherwise.

I'm waiting on Zen 4 to do the bulk of my upgrades, personally, although I'll have 10Gb networking going soon (line speed on reads from my NAS).

Instead, I'm picking up an old MB and setting up a server rack (27U) for the home. Centralized ftw.

Next year or 2022 is CPUs, then around 2022-23 for TVs with miniLED Q-Dot sets to get tons more zones, while also having the peak brightness OLED cannot reach and the color gamut of Qdots. They will have Q-dot OLEDs around there, too, if people are interested.

Oh, and the likely Nvidia shields coming out next year, which that as a remote desktop to a pc in the rack... yep.

 

I honestly see no benefit for any of these CPU’s. Unless someone needs more cores, and maybe uses rendering software? Or just loves to spend money on new processors lol. I still think a higher frequency is more important. Especially if someone already has a 9900K, no point in getting more. Until we start to benefit beyond 6/12 maybe I will upgrade, but my 5.3Ghz 8086K is still ripping fast for gaming.

I am looking forward to pre-ordering the next gen ampere Ti GPU’s though. That’s a upgrade you can actually see! And feel too!

I am curious to see how my CPU handles these at 1440P

 

10th gen 8 cores do run cooler at higher clocks, and clock rather nicely as well.

 

Yep my 10900K SP103 does 5.3Ghz all 10 cores. It's a great chip. The point of the chips aren't target at 8700K or 9th gen owners, it's targeted at those still rocking quad core chips. And if Intel is slapping on more cores while kicking up the clockspeed, then I certainly see no reason to complain. Games are quickly taking up more and more processing power, and are certainly eating up those threads. When paired with something like a 240Hz or 280Hz monitor you're gonna need all the CPU power you can get to not bottleneck the GPU from delivering the goods. Next gen GPUs are just going to push these CPUs even harder.

 

How is the binning on the 10850K compared to the 10700K? Which one is better on average?

I'm curious because I'm not sure if the 10850K is even worth getting.

 

Obviously the 10850K is better on average. The 10700K doesn't compete with a 10850K as they both clock similary, and the later has 2 additional cores and 4 additional threads. Silicon Lottery finding just 20% of 10700K chips hitting 5.1Ghz bin, with an AVX offset of -1 which means 5Ghz real overclock. I don't understand the use of an AVX offset in 2020 as more and more things, including a lot of games go heavy on AVX instructions. Claiming an overclock but then using an offset is makes no sense.

https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all/products/10700k51g

I would get the 10850K over the 10700K all day. The price is about $50 more from a place like Amazon or Newegg if they ever get them in stock, or possibly around $100 more at something like a Microcenter if they keep that great 10700K price. Since I can't find a single other 10850K sample out there, or review, I can't say for sure how they clock on average. I think it's possible mine was sold/shipped early by accident because it's been removed/backordered since I got mine. 3dmark won't even let me publish my results which I haven't seen before.

My 10850K clocks to max of 5.1Ghz with 1.42v bios LLC6, which drops to around 1.3v load if I remember correctly. The more realistic clock is 5Ghz all 10 cores with a reasonable 1.37v at LLC5. That is 200-300Mhz less than my 10900K, but my 10900K is a highly binned chip. Most 10900K topping out around 5.2Ghz as a realistic daily driver clock, and some bad bins only getting to 5.1Ghz as well. As far as which one I would get, it would all depend on price or desire to overclock to max. If you're into getting max clocks, the 10900K is the clear choice for best silicon quality. If you don't care, and plan to just pop it in and run it the 10850K definitely is a good option if you get it cheap enough as you're not going to notice the difference between 200Mhz either way.

 

Thanks for the detailed information.

You really lucked out on getting your 10850K. You may be the first one or one of the first to even have one in hand as a consumer.

 

Don't worry, after seeing how boost works with their GPUs with raja (not a fan, but he does get modern GPU design), and how AMD uses a multi- factor headroom algorithm, along with them trying out if the heat is low enough, boost 100mhz more, Intel will not have the AVX offset much longer.

Then again, that also means you are using boost and cooling and binning will be king for minor performance increases moving forward.

In other words, AMD's boost will spread to an Intel boost. Less is left on the table. And hobbies will end. But, you can always build pretty e-peen...

 

I just got a 7980XE! I paid $300 bucks from a crackhead. Yes sir!!

Shopping for a cheap X299 motherboard right now.

 

For you bro makina.

How to Stress-Test CPUs and PCs (Like We Do) tomshardware.com | Today


Bro Fox have you checked out the thilmera 7 - display system information utility?

 

Reminds me of procstats terminal/cmd line version on linux.

 

Comes and get it brother, before someone else snags it. FS: EVGA X299 Dark Motherboard

 

Hmm, no. I have never seen it before. Thank you. I will check it out.

 

Happy Birthday Brother @Papusan

 

Thanks bro Fox Have now passed halfway to 110


--------------------------------------------------

LOOL.

Intel 10th Gen Core KA Marvel's Avengers SKUs Don't Include the Game
techpowerup.com | Today

Intel recently announced its 10th Gen Core KA line of Socket LGA1200 desktop processors that are co-branded by Marvel's Avengers, complete with fancy retail channel packaging that's sure to attract collectors from the Marvel fanbase. Turns out, that the box doesn't actually include the game by Square Enix, as discovered by momomo_us. A fine-print on the bottom left corner of the front face of the retail box reads "Game Not Included." All you really do get is a fancy box that's been designed by artist Tristan Eaton. Some retailers may include plushies such as the one pictured below, which obviously cost less than a copy of the game. Marvel's Avengers (the game) releases on September 4, 2020, and is up for pre-order on Steam for $59.99.

 

If this were not so disgusting it would be comical. If there are real customers that are actually excited about something like this that makes me very scared about the future. This is extremely juvenile and pathetic. It feels more like a commercial for a sugar-heavy breakfast cereal than something geared toward gamers and PC enthusiasts. But, maybe I am just an old crusty guy that is out of touch with where this goofball culture of ours is headed.

I have to admit that the concept is not out of alignment with the plethora of ridiculous thin and light BGA turdbooks that have flooded the market, and the gamer-kids are gobbling up that crap like cotton-candy. It's so cute, and it has an RGB rainbow keyboard! OMG, I need one! Now! Please mommy, please.

 

Pokemon/PUBG edition will be selling like hotcakes for Intel i9 PUBG/Pokemon edition that can boost to theoretical 6GHz.
Their naming scheme is confusing now. I lose track of numbers every time.

 

I am having to re-learn everything. Comet Lake is very different. The CPU voltage management seems kind of wonky. Either way too low or too high. Haven't figured out how to get it to actually be at the value I want it to stay at. This is my Viper DDR-4000 RAM with the timings left on "Auto" and only the clock ratio and voltage set. I've got the delid and bare die kit, but I am going to continue testing a little longer before I move to bare die.


@Papusan @jc_denton @Talon

 

Well, you got a new toy to play with, makes sense even if it is less cores than your other CPU.....it's fun to learn a new architecture and see what it can do! 5.3Ghz is the max stock frequency for any of the cores with short term boosts, are you hoping to be at least at 5.3Ghz on all cores? I dunno, you'd kinda think you might be able to do 5.5Ghz all core with the right cooling?? What are you going for cooling wise because I know you've sold some stuff?

 

Yeah, just something to play with that wasn't too expensive. I am starting to figure out the differences in the voltage and what-not. The new BIOS for Comet has a ton of new stuff in it with no documentation to speak of. I will have to make a video showing what I am finding through trial and error to help others that might run into similar challenges. Using conventional wisdom I was seeing really weird stuff. Like setting the core voltage to 1.350V was causing it to go to 1.650V. There are built-in offsets that have to be disabled.

I was also fighting my previous Windows installations. Something just wasn't playing nice, maybe due to old X299 drivers and ME, etc. Finally had to give up and do a clean install to get it stable. I guess the changes in architecture were too major for Windows to deal with on the old OS installations.

I think you will like these memory results. Can't run this high with 4 sticks. I wish now that I had 2x16 instead of 2x8. These are the same DDR4-4000 sticks I was using with X299.


Stock CPU... Default XMP profile

Nice little overclock...

@Papusan @jc_denton

 

Everyone says that 10900K/KF is too hot, but it's actually not all that hot-running IMHO. I am going to delid and move to bare die tomorrow.

Thermal Velocity Boost degrades performance a bit, clipping the voltage and clock speeds a little bit but the CPU runs cooler when it does that (as expected). Example below with TVB enabled.

 

From my older post...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...m-owners-lounge.831618/page-116#post-11029037

 

That's the easy part of coming from 7960X and 7980XE back to a K-class CPU. This one consumes less than half as much power, uses substantially lower voltage, and produces a lot less heat. The temps at the end of a 5.3GHz CBR20 run are just barely starting to creep high enough that you could breach the thermal throttling realm running on unchilled water. With 7980XE, and just a little less challenge with 7960X, a 5.2GHz run in CBR20 with water temps between 0-5°C is flirting with 100°C core temps within like 1 second and having water that is on the verge of freeze is the only thing separating you from an impressive benchmark and a thermal shutdown. And, it's pulling 1100W+ from the wall, LOL. My perception of too hot has been forever impacted by poorly engineered laptops and these monstrous CPUs. I'll most likely end up being far more forgiving than I should be because of that.

 

Well, the 10900KF loves Windows 7 like all of the CPUs that came before it... in spite of the driver terrorists not "supporting" Windows 7 with 10th Gen. I'm faking it with a USB WiFi that has Windows 7 driver support. Screw 'em. (Also one of the reasons I chose KF is no iGFX since now Intel only supports Windoze OS X DCH trash.)

The only person that beat me is running sub-zero cooling at 6.6GHz (versus 5.3GHz for me) and just barely beat me with his Windoze OS X barf bucket. This proves what an inferior pile of crap Windoze 10 is. They can't even make it work better on the latest hardware. Losers!

his... https://hwbot.org/submission/4502462_achill3us_wprime___32m_core_i9_10900kf_1sec_599ms/
mine... https://hwbot.org/submission/4531367_mr._fox_wprime___32m_core_i9_10900kf_1sec_887ms/

Windows 7 FTW! Never surrender to the Master of Filth. Yeah, I know... eventually won't have any choice, but it won't be something I do with a happy heart when I'm stuck drinking from their urinal. Windows 10 is such a messed up pile of [insert vulgar term for feces]. For now, I will have satisfaction in the knowledge that I am contributing to the statistics that show Windows 10 adoption isn't anywhere near 100%. Every example like mine helps deprive them of the success they crave, but do not deserve.

 

It looks like a fun system to learn and bench As for the voltage being weird, did you keep TVB on?

 

No. Still testing, so the verdict is still out. But, that was one of the first things I disabled. I ended up working part of the weekend so my testing was abbreviated and I did not have time for the delid yet. Temps in posts above are with Phobya NanoGrease Extreme.

 

OK, got the delid and bare die setup done and man... what a difference. Load temps are about 15-20°C less. Check it out.
Here are some photos of the parts

Spoiler: Delid and Bare Die Photos

And, here are some nice runs with some info on max temps. Load voltage at 5.4GHz is roughly 1.350V

No chiller... just plain water.

@Papusan @jc_denton

 

The boot logo for the BIOS was kind of plain, so I added my own.

 

Ooops. Forgot to disable AVX offset.

Power and temps...

 

Wow... thats almost the same power draw as my 3990X 3.7GHz... I only draw 320W at 3.7GHz in Cinebench

 

That is a beast CPU. Did you actually have a real business need for it, or just bought it simply because it is a beast CPU?

 

I'm an enthusiast unfortunately I bought it for the sake of owning it however I run Folding@Home on it 24/7 so at least it gets some use...

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

 

I had a difficult time deciding what to do. Probably the toughest I can remember when it came down to deciding what to buy. The item first and foremost on my list of "must-have" characteristics is excellent overclocking abilities. I love most of what I am seeing from Ryzen, but the unfortunate thing is that it doesn't tick the first and most important box on my list. Stock results are great and if I planned to run everything stock then Ryzen would be the way to go.

Everything in CPUs is grossly overpriced now and availability is poor. I initially thought of buying a 10980XE to drop into my X299 Dark. I decided against it for several reasons, but availability is nearly non-existent. I thought about moving to 3950X, but that is also grossly overpriced and I literally could not find one for sale over the course of about a month. I did eventually find a few on eBay selling for twice MSRP and I was like "oh hell no" and there's still the poor CPU and RAM overclocking capacity. I finally landed where I am now. CPU and motherboard combined were under $1,000. Yeah, it's still 14nm, but it seemed like the best bang for the buck for something that overclocks well enough for me to derive some pleasure from it.

I am finding pleasure is getting harder to come by and I am not optimistic about the future. I guess we will see what happens. As beastly as it may be, it is very unlikely I will ever be willing to spend as much on a CPU as the 3990X costs. It would need to handle at least a 50% overclock and run the RAM at least 4000MHz with tight timings, but that is what I would expect from a CPU that costs ~$500 so the expectations playing field is level in that respect.

 

10980XE is useless upgrade over a direct die 7980XE... I find overclocking competition a waste of time... Not trying to bash on ur hobby just my opinion why do I care about be a few points higher than someone else... 3950X lacks alot of PCIE Bandwidth which I like to have even if I don't use it, just like ram better to have and not need than need and not have. I get most of my parts used I live in a high tech area got the 3990X for 2900 CAD was a no brainer... I don't mind running around 4GHz anything 3.5 and over is fine with me. New tech is so overpriced I would have bought a 2080ti but they launched at double the price of the 1080 Ti here in Canada for a 30% performance boost no thanks.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

 

If a person is happy running stock clocks or using it for business purposes, then yes. the 10980XE adds no value over 7980XE. But, it overclocks higher, uses lower voltage, and produces better benchmark scores. I base all of my decisions on that because it is my hobby. If I can't enjoy my hobby, I will get something cheap like the turdbook in my signature. Overclocking is like any other passion. It is important if you care, and not important if you don't. The list could be endless... football, baseball, chess, drag racing, motocross, skateboarding, hunting, fishing, etc. If you're not into it then you don't care. I totally get it that some people don't care. I am totally disinterested in all but a couple of things I mentioned in that list of passions. A couple of them I used to do and used to be passionate about them, but none of them are things I am interested in doing today.

 

Nice! So an increase in power consumption because overclocked more AND a decrease in temperature too whilst doing it due to bare die. Did you say 20 degC lower temp when running the same load & CPU settings?

 

Yes, 15-20°C improvement. Before the delid and bare die it was over 90°C at 5.2GHz. It's like a totally different CPU. I haven't even turned on the chiller yet, LOL. Should be interesting to see how much higher I can go on cold water. It looks like 5.3GHz on all cores with 1.375V is going to be a nice daily driver. Temps are fantastic. Idles at 32°C and you've already seen the load temps. There are very few things that are going to place as much demand on the CPU as CBR20. Overall, I am pretty happy with this downgrade. CPU and mobo and delid/bare die kit came in right at $1,000 and I sold the old parts for enough to cover the cost, give or take $100.

 

+- $100 bucks to keep its hobby up is cheap. A lot other hobbies cost a lot more.

 

Sounds like you got an excellent chip! Mine does 5.3Ghz all cores on my pretty cherry 10900K. I also bought a 10850K before they were even on the street just for ****s and it's exactly what you would expect, a 10900K dud. Still it's fun to play with, I did some overclocking and beat on it a bit. Right now I'm just waiting on the new cards to drop. I sold off my 2080 Ti FTW3 for a decent price so out of pocket should only be around $500 for a 3090 or whatever the top card is.

 

Thank you. It does seem like a nice sample. Check this out. Still learning how to use the voltage controls. 5.5GHz at 1.297V under load, LOL.

https://hwbot.org/submission/4533008_mr._fox_cpu_frequency_core_i9_10900kf_5510.73_mhz

https://valid.x86.fr/fcdfbz

 

Actually needs about 1.370V for that in Cinebench R20, but still not too shabby.
https://hwbot.org/submission/4533016_mr._fox_cinebench___r20_core_i9_10900kf_7178_marks/

 

Little by little...

 

I contradict my self all the time. I’ve traded in the 8086K for a 7980XE big dog. It has warranty until late 2022. So I’m not delidding it. It is very very tempting though.

 

Am I seeing this right? @Mr. Fox went from X299 to Z490??

 

Honestly if you don't need 18 cores, and don't need the PCIE lanes, X299 makes no sense. Z490 will support PCIE 4.0 with RKL and the latency and speed you can get on a fast 10 core chip will more than step all over x299 in games. Really comes down to needs and Z490 is fun to tweak and overclock.

 

I always found HEDT to be more "fun" personally. Mainly because of the Xeon CPUs that are available.

In my X99 I am running E5-1660 v3 @ 4.3Ghz (8-core unlocked Xeon).

I just got a X79 to play with. It has 4820k, I want to stuff a Xeon E5-1680 v2 in there (also 8-core unlocked CPU, 4960x at the time was a 6 core extreme).

I guess those things can't be done anymore with v4+ CPUs and core counts have gone up since then.

Is Z490 supporting PCIe 4.0 with RKL confirmed though?

 

Depends on the MB. Hybrid solutions.
The Intel Z490 Overview: 44+ Motherboards Examined

This is but one example, but depending on memory support, power support, graphics support - all of these mean that motherboard manufacturers can take Z490 in one of two ways. The one that most vendors seem to be doing is to make their boards hybrids - suitable for both Comet and Rocket, but not really mastering one. For users intending to upgrade mid-cycle without a motherboard change, these hybrid designs are probably best. The second option is to make specific boards for the specific chips, despite technically supporting both: making the Z490 the best board it can be for Comet Lake, and then some future board (Z590?) being the best board for Rocket Lake. Personally, I prefer the latter, because I'd like the best out of my processor. However, prices of the best motherboards are matching (or even surpassing) that of the processor, which makes the quandary a little more complex than on first glance.

Nvidia is up with PCIe-4. Even on their cheapest BGA Junk.
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-mx450-turing-discrete-notebook-gpu-gddr6-pcie-4/

And Intel themself is readying own PCIE-4.0 ssds. They need to add in this support. If not, they will continue go backwards into the future.

 

cool setup. I would highly recommend a Xeon 1681 V3 which is 10/20 and unlocked too. I did have one back in 2016 although, I never ran it. They also make a 12 core and 14 core part I think. All of them are unlocked. So there is some future growth. These are OEM only chips, and are quite RARE!

1660V3/ 1680V3/ 1681V3/ 1686V3/ 1691 V3
CPU’s from 8 core to 14 cores!

I always loved the old high core count system. I myself have just move to X299 for this. Something about a 7980XE is so much more exciting than a Z490 and a 10900K. I could’ve purchased whatever really. But something about the 3 year old (18) core is really speaking to me.

 

Actually those are the CPUs I was looking for originally, but could not find them anywhere. If you or anyone else ever sees them for sale, let me know. I would love a 14 core unlocked CPU in my X99 system.