*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Looks like their web site is broken because its the same problem trying to add a 5900X. Both have the "new product" banner on them. Adding a product that doesn't have that banner works. It looks like MicroCenter stores in NY and MA has them in stock for MSRP. At least they did when I posted this.

It seems that MicroCenter is the only honest retailer that is not screwing their customers.

Edit: BestBuy is also selling it for the correct price, but they seem to have no stock.

 

MicroCenter inflated the prices of the 11900k when first introduced up to $620/ea which irked me slightly but overall they are as close to Best Buy pricing was as you can get. Best Buy toes the MSRP hardline better than anybody I've seen.

 

Yes, I do give Best Buy credit for that. They deserve it, too. Unfortunately, they often don't have the things I want to buy in stock. Either because it is sold out, or it is too much of an enthusiast product and they seldom carry PC enthusiast components. Their business model is geared more toward mainstream consumers.

 

Speaking of Microcenter....the dream spree:

 

LOL, wearing that damned mask. I keep forgetting that some of the blue states are still requiring them. I'd gladly spring for a plane ticket and wear a mask for an hour or so in exchange for an unlimited gift card like that.

 

This is a good fit in this thread, and just as relevant as it is over here since it is all about performance... or the lack thereof.

Verdict: Click Bait... unfortunately. Lying Micro$oft fanboy media shill at Windows Central busted... again.

StartIsBack is working now after a registry tweak to kill the crappy new menu.

Spoiler: July 2015 Testing (Reference)

OK. Results are in...
10900K @ 5.2GHz
RAM at 4500 CL19-19-19-39 2T
RTX 3090 K|INGP|N XOC BIOS, no OC/offsets
GeFarts 471.11 Drivers on both OSes

Spoiler: Validation Images

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/cpu/49623/cpu/49886

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/21328985/spy/21331287

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/1113389/pr/1113633

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/25856343/fs/25856929

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/sd/6236654/sd/6236686

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/14507203/3dm11/14507483

Windows 11 Pro

Windows 10 LTSC

Windows 11 Pro

Windows 10 Pro LTSC

Windows 11 Pro

Windows 10 LTSC

Windows 11 Pro

Windows 10 LTSC

Windows 11 Pro

Windows 10 LTSC

@Johnksss

July 2015 through July 2021 - No Progress. Just more ugliness, extra bloat, and less functionality.

Great job, Micro$lop!

---

To end it on a positive note, Windows 11 performance is better than 1909 through 21H2 and close to the same as LTSC (essentially identical, with the point of weakness being CPU performance, as usual). So, while it does not fix the aesthetic atrocities, it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

 

Wow that’s a lot of work over the years @Mr. Fox . I’m pretty particular over OS performance, so I enjoy reading charts like this.

People should pay more attention to updates, and newer software in general. (Newer is certainly not always better) I can flip a switch on my X299 Dark mobo and quickly test the newest 1.28 model bios for my PC. And once I do, I immediately notice the 5C hotter CPU. (That’s reasonable, I have some headroom ) only until I notice this 3% performance loss in multithreaded. After windows update installs the latest ME for this awesome new bios, that’s when the big hit comes, an additional 5.0%-5.5% loss.

So in the end 8% slower, and hotter at the same time (How fantastic these updates are lol) Man I just gave up 200Mhz worth of performance on my CPU.

Anyways, I try to stick to what works best. I run an old XOC bios, with an old pre-MS Edge Windows 10 LTSC. (Without the vulnerability updates)

I feel like windows 11 would immediately stick
it to me haha (With this platform anyways). The combination of newer vs older software updates and tuning is endless for us.

 

Yes, if there is one thing we can count on with Micro$lop, it is getting screwed. Their shady character, dishonesty, misguided focus, and mediocrity are also predictable traits.

 

Microsoft's original mission was to create an OS and pack it with enough new features and technology to merit a purchasable upgrade. Now? It's all about services and soon Google type mining. They are this close -><- to being like Apple
and making their OS near impossible to use without a M$ account. Before it was one OEM/single user license per machine, but now you can tie the licenses to your M$ account and basically transfer them to any new hardware you have and
decommission the old hardware. They aren't doing that out of the kindness of their hearts. They continue to embrace overly heavy handed OEM secure procedures walking hand in hand with BIOS makers making it harder and harder to have full reign
on your systems all for the sake of "security."

 

Indeed. If we could all give them what they deserve we would either go to jail, go to hell, or both. It wouldn't be nice or kind. It would be vicious and brutal, but they'd be very deserving of it and it would result in their death as a company.

 

Since gigabyte has already tested shortening the memory traces in the past, why aren't they more common now? Their latest 2 dimm board ( Tachyon ) has the standard square ILM instead of narrow/rectangular ILM.


A gamer usually aren't going to use more than 2 slots ( 128GB+ ) and it saves on the plastic waste.

 

If I had to guess, possibly some of the same issues that turdbook owners deal with. Namely, form over function and a preoccupation with aesthetics more than performance. The Dark mobos are putting the DIMM slots horizontally across the top of the mobo to help get the traces shorter, but we do not see as much innovation and focus on results that one might hope.

 

LOL, just got my notification on the Hydro Copper block for the KP card but the card will likely be on its way to @tps3443 by the weekend or Monday. My prediction was correct in multiple ways. I didn't say it up here, but I said to myself I would likely get the notification when the card was either sold or about to be sold.

 

It looks the cpu was also shifted by 90 degrees in addition to the ram so they're in the same position afterwards or was there some other adjustments on the Z590 Dark?


One of them is a square ILM but the dimms are closer to the socket than the R6A board.

 

Darn, that is a bummer. I wonder if @tps3443 wants you to snag it for him while it is available? He might not get a chance otherwise.

Yes, that is correct. And, there is only about 0.25 inch of clearance between the water block and RAM slots, so they are as close as they can get them without having interference problems with water block/heat sink installation.

 

That is what we are going to do. I am happy (and a little sad). The good thing is that this card is going to find a home where the person is going to push it.

Truth be told I have been, little by little, getting back into enterprise grade hardware. I am doing a complete rebuild of my homelab plus completing the wiring of my home for 10/25gb. Then I still have to get a really good 3D printer AND something else.....hehehehe.

If all goes according to plan, perhaps one day I won't need to wait for an organization to produce a block for me.

 

That is great that you are able to help him out on the GPU and the Hydro Copper block. I am excited for him. And, I am right there with you in terms of shifting focus. There are too many undesirable issues with technology, not the least of which are poor availability, extreme overpricing and not that great performance in terms of value. Having to pay 300% more for something that brings a performance increase of less than 50% isn't very smart and I think I am going to be done for a while. At least until things return to how they were before (if they ever do).

Oh man, now I am too curious and excited to find out what kind of tricks you have up your sleeve.

 

Lol I did also and went ahead and ordered it this afternoon. I have 5 people interested in the kingpin card but have been to busy with family emergency to deal with the sale. I’ll either sell the block alone of with the card or send it back to evga.

 

If you don't sell it with the GPU you can probably sell it as new-not opened for close to double what you'll pay EVGA for it. The fact that it is the only block available for it and not many are offered for sale, and then only to EVGA Elite members initially makes it valuable.

 

@tps3443 is going to have a field day with the KPE 3090 and block..... can't wait to see him push it to the wall (and then some).

 

While this board ( engineering sample ) doesn't have the 4 mounting holes for a cooler, it still requires 3 holes for the socket itself. The adapter is made 2 years after by some people from Poland.
And with this adapter, they can put an LN2 pot on it rather than rely on the weight to apply pressure. Couldn't an adapter+a waterblock get designed together by the same vendors for something similar? Now you get the benefit of shorter traces and 24/7 usage.

 

Yes. The heat sink on the Clevo X170 uses stand-off screws on the CPU ILM for attaching the heat sink. And, and earlier beta version of the Ncore was a bare die water block that used the ILM. I am not confident that it was effective using the ILM to hold down the water block versus the screws attaching the ILM. (That was a cool project that has taken forever to get into production. I was initially interested and they have taken way too long to launch, so I lost interest.)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/341758082/ncore-v1-naked-die-cooling-waterblock-designed-by

 

This direct die block probably does more or less the same thing or maybe better? The fins look smaller than the ncore renders and it is available.

 

It’s pretty crazy that it worked out like this.

This sacrifice is very very very much appreciated though. (Like, this is all a dream come true for me)

So I absolutely very much appreciate this!

 

I am very happy about all of this. I was already checking ebay prior to this for the hydro copper KP waterblocks. And they are all being scalped of course.

I am very fortunate, and it’s amazing that we have such kind people on here to help us when needed!!!

I never even considered a Kingpin(Due to availability) So I am very excited about this card, and the hydro copper just makes it insane.. It really does. My birthday is in 4 days. And it just doesn’t get any better than this.

 

How is yours by the way? I imagine it has to be a lot better than that air cooled 3090FE for daily gaming usage.

Are you going to leave the factory cooler on that KP?

 

Running like a champ, no coil whine, much cooler, quieter than the 3090FE and logging too many hours of WoW @ 4k Ultra 10 settings than I care to admit.

I'm probably one of the few who likes the all black hybrid look of the KPE 3090 and will leave it alone for now.

The only way the 3090 would leave my possession is if I find a killer deal on a X170KM to slot this SP94 11900k I cherry picked for ridiculously low leakage and temps specifically for this use.
It's next on my radar.

I know you're going to be a kid in a candy store with yours!

 

That is a very intriguing product. It is not clear how to order the Mark 6 block that is in the video. The web site is rather confusing. It looks like you buy everything in pieces and there is not much to explain the process. It looks like the components can be used in variations that include conventional mounting with the IHS and bare die configuration. I wish the web site had a better explanation. I am not sure why they would not simply sell the Mark 6 bare die configuration as a fully complete kit versus components.

http://www.supercoolcomputer.com/product/26/water-block-mark

The main drawback to the Mark 6 seems to be the removal process is messy and unnecessarily complicated because you have to disassemble everything and take extra steps to avoid getting water spilled all over the motherboard.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/supercool-computer-waterblock.1773994/

I think the best (most convenient and perhaps the safest) approach to bare die is probably to remove the ILM completely and use a die frame with a high end water block like the Optimus Signature block like what @tps3443 and I am using. Using the die frame also likely minimizes the risk of fracturing the CPU core or bending the PCB.

But, judging from the video it seems that the Mark 6 is highly effective at cooling. I do not speak Thai and cannot understand anything being said, but watching the video showed some really excellent temps running Cinebench clocked at 5.3GHz.

 

Yay!!! I finally got the money together guys. And I paid off the 3090 KP! (It’s expensive, even at MSRP+tax lol)

I am beyond excited right now!! And I can’t wait to get it!!

Thank you! @Rage Set

 

Wow, more guys have 3090 Kingpin’s on this forum than the Evga warehouse lol.

Anyways, I have never owned a Kingpin card before. But I always wanted a 2080Ti Kingpin ever since was struggling with all (6 or 7) reference 2080Ti’s i’ve owned over the past couple years. So, I’m absolutely happy about the 3090 KP. I feel blessed to have purchased a $2,200 dollar gpu with taxes, shipping all included etc. It’s kinda silly because, years ago we would be like, ((are you insane??)) But it’s actually an amazing deal right now in 2021! I mean even the very cheapest air cooled AIB 3080Ti’s are like $1,600-$1,700 with taxes through most retailers with only 12GB vram. Or if we compare it to the prior gen Titan RTX 24GB that was $2,500 before taxes.

Anyways, I feel fortunate to have found one that’s for sure lol. And I am gonna run it for a long long time!

 

Direct die and Optimus sig V2 are really just about the best option for ambient or sub-ambient water cooling, and it’s easy for the most part! Direct die is that good.

It’s nice to have nearly close and even core to core temps. You can go from idle load to immediate full power load, and the CPU doesn’t immediately jump to these super high temperatures (It goes up some and then slowly heats up to equilibrium)(Direct-Die can effectively and instantly transfer that heat very quickly) And it also cools down really quickly too. When the load is stopped, it will return to idle temperature almost immediately minus the difference in a higher water temp. If your trying to squeeze the maximum, while being reliable it’s a great option!

I am not so sure how effective that waterblock would be with an integrated IHS.

 

I have some of this really cool Fuji pressure film paper. I think the kingpin 3090 would benefit most with liquid metal on the die with the Hydro copper kingpin water block of course.

Once I have the card and block together, I plan to do a test fit and see how well the contact is. I am going to lay a single piece of this super thin pressure paper on the die, and install the block and tighten everything down (as normal) Then immediately remove the block to see precisely how die is contacting the block (I imagine minor thermal pad adjustment is required). If it has good contact with bare die and bare block with just this thin pressure paper. It should be good for liquid metal.

I’m also curious just to see how well all of the thermal pads contact the components on the 3090 board.

I’ve heard that LM with proper setup can provide some pretty good temps on these 3090 kingpins.


This is the pressure paper I am referring to. I can get you guys some free sample, if anyone is interested. The gentleman at the company will mail
it to you for free, and I can give you his email address.

 

Someone needs to make a water block for the backside of the KP 3090. The backside runs very hot.

 

The Hydro Copper block dramatically lowered the temps on the back side for me. Like 15-20°C improvement. But, I do agree. Having an active cooling block on both sides would definitely be ideal. From what I understand, even the OptimusPC block is not going to have that. Perhaps the design effort would be so complex that EVGA and OptimusPC are concerned that the price it might require charging for it would be unacceptable to most people and it would be difficult to sell enough to cover the R&D and production costs.

 

How is the quality of the included thermalpads on the Kingpin hydro copper waterblock? And, who designed this waterblock Evga?

Are you using LM or paste?

I was reading about some people using LM, saying they can hold a 38C and 2,130-2,175 with some fine tuning.

 

They are excellent thermal pads. There is a special type of putty that is required in one place that is included with the kit. You cannot use thermal pads in that location. I am just using the thermal compound that came with it. I have not found it necessary to use liquid metal on my desktop GPUs. But, I do my benching with chilled water and that has something to do with that decision. I don't need the extra help from liquid metal as much as I would without the chiller.

I was going to do a YouTube video and never made it a priority. Here are some photos of the teardown for the Hydro Copper installation and included components.

EVGA RTX 3090 K|NGP|N Teardown Photo Album

Spoiler: EVGA RTX 3090 K|NGP|N Photo Album

 

Just managed to get a 5950X at MSRP on AMD.com. Now I just need the Dark....

 

I'm going to wait for the last chip to drop for am4 and pick that up, would make for a meaningful upgrade over my 2700x

 

This is actually very helpful. Yeah I might just use some good standard paste. My goal is to get it right at 40C or if possible sub 40C while gaming would be excellent. My ambient temperatures are usually 23.5C-24.5C while my water temps under load usually sit around 28-29C. The kingpin 3090 would have to maintain a pretty good delta over the water temp. Hopefully 10C delta or less would be good great for me. (So i’m gonna take as much care with block install, for this to be as good as possible)

No water chiller yet, but that’s certainly coming in the near future!

I’m mostly excited to try something different. I have gotten so burned out with 2080Ti’s. I will order another D5 and probably separate the GPU, and CPU to their own loop.

I am gonna flush out this whole loop though, and I will run clear basic coolant and back to black tubing and be done with it.

 

That’s awesome!

A few years back we’d strive to save as much as possible on msrp with pc hardware. (Like Microcenter usually selling high end intel CPU’s chips like the i7 5960X 8/16 intel extreme in store only for $749)

Now we are fortunate to even get items at msrp. Especially a 5950X at msrp. It’s crazy how our mindset can be conditioned just because of low availability, or silicon supply.

Or my mind has been conditioned at least.

 

The paste and pads included in the kit are excellent. No need for anything else.

Congratulations. I am very excited to see how it performs in the hands of a talented overclocker in this community.

I am starting to think that I might want one too if running 5.0GHz or higher as a daily driver clock speed on all cores with a fixed clock ratio is a reasonable expectation with the Dark mobo. Otherwise, I am not interested. I don't want to waste money on any other motherboard in the meanwhile. So, I will wait until the Dark is available for purchase, see what it will end up setting me back financially and then decide what I want to do. I am worried it is going to end up costing more than what I am willing to spend.

 

Yep, that’s all i’m gonna use. It’s actually pretty convenient too. (preapplied thermal pads)

 

I know I am going to get a new case very soon. I feel as if I can’t do what I want with my current case. I’d like to vertical mount this 3090KP with the KP Hydro-copper waterblock. My current case is too tight. (It was never meant to hold (3) 360’s

The corsair 7000D is awesome looking though! I like the cable management on the back of it, and it holds (3) 360mm radiators at once. It’s a little expensive at $260. But it’s not too busy looking like the Crystal corsair series cases are.

I really think this might be the perfect case. (in black of course) The white looks nice, but I had a white case before, and I hated it lol. It would be tough to try white again. I will say that the white looks like it’s done really well. I owned a cheap white case prior.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811139170

 

I think white looks awesome on a brand new build. I am confident I would end up with regrets going with white in a very short time. I just love having everyting black. White is more of a novelty that is nice to look at when it belongs to someone else. The 7000D looks like a great case. I like the 5000D quite a lot in spite of it being smaller than I would prefer.

I really love how both of my systems look now. The Neo Qube looks amazing in spite of it being so small that it is agitating, But, I also keep staring at the Praxis WetBench sitting on the floor in the corner of my office and wondering what in the hell I was thinking by downgrading to an enclosed case. The open bench is just about a million times better in almost every way. Then I look at the dust that makes everything look absolutely filthy less than 24 hours after cleaning my office and I remember what I was thinking, LOL. I still haven't decided if I am glad or regret doing it. There is no question that the decision was a good one in terms of the dust problem. It was a huge sacrifice and a major compromise downgrading to an enclosed case. I also hate the dust more than words can say.

 

I know the feeling, I spent all this money on these really good (high pressure) radiator fans. And I just can’t love them for some reason lol. It’s too much yellow. But they work! I had no idea I would see such an improvement, I can run them at the lowest speed with a high pump speed, and the performance isn’t much worse than maximum speed. My system is hideous looking right now lol. That’s why I am going back with just ekwb commercial black tubing, and standard clear coolant for now. I will do a full tear down and flush before running the KP Hydro copper block.

Oh well. At least it’ll be fast, once I fill that empty space in the bottom. lol. I hope all black tubing and the yellow fans looks decent. It should be better. I have considered going black tubing and
nickel fittings. I’m not good with matching colors.

 

I really like yellow and think they look nice. It should look great with the black tubing. The yellow and black remind me of Stryper... one of my favorite 80's hair bands.

 

Finally some more points than the usual 2-4 from the old

https://hwbot.org/submission/4781443_papusan_3dmark03_hd_graphics_520_(mobile)_21201_marks

 

I love how you're setting records and stressing the hell out of these old garbage chips, I don't know why, but it just makes me smile

 

Ditto, I enjoy Pap pulling out these old systems and running them through the stress mill.

 

Do you have multiple laptops? or desktops that you use for testing?