AMD releases HD 7000M - mobile 7700M/7800M/7900M series

Voltage can be down by quite a bit, which power can be decreased exponentially.

 

They almost halved the TDP with a 15% frequency drop, that is some voltage drop to only loose that much. Interesting power/frequency curve this new process has. That or there are golden cores which show the potential it has.

Nvidia are not going to win this with a middle kepler core, half the 680 is just not enough. It will get eaten alive unless they make it more efficient.

 

Remember the race to 1GHz?

 

This 7970M will be a beast. Give it a mild OC and you have a desktop GTX 570 (or is the desktop 7870 even better than that, I don't quite remember) in your laptop this is simply amazing.

Agreed. I made the exact same remark a while back when the rumor about GTX 680M being based on the GK106 (768cc) started to spread.

 

The 7870 bounces between slightly ahead of the 570 to slightly ahead of the 580 (and on par with the 7950) its a scary chip for a notebook.

 

Oh btw, I will get one so long as the price is not extreme

 

It is definitely a beast GPU. I think I had read somewhere that the desktop version was undervolted etc and it reached a really low TDP compared to the recommended, so I am not surprised they somehow managed to make it work for 100w TDP.

I really want to get my hands on one of those

 

I can give good news to you Meaker, dell sells it for 614 dollars, which means it should be < 400 on ebay I am still waiting for 680m though

 

400 dollars? That would be a case of STFU and take my money already. We'll see.

 

There were rumours of a 685m too right? Well we don't have complete specs even for the 680m...

The current rumored ones are way too weak to be the new card.

 

less than 400, I think you may swing at it around 250-300 maybe if you wait some time, but definitely during summer it will be expensive thats for sure..

685m rumors were there sometime ago, but I am not sure if it will happen, I think 680m is already very nice with 4.6k 3dmark11

 

The 7970M won`t be anything near 7870. LOL you guys are crazy.
Although spec wise 7970M is only 150MHz under the 7870, it is undervolted hence why AMD managed to keep it at 100W instead at 144W like 7870 is.
Desktops don`t have any heat limit, notebook GPUs do. They have to take the extra watt from somewhere, in this case from all the cores running 150MHz lower and lower voltage. You guys think the performance is between 7850 and 7870 but AMD got the 7850 drawing 101W to reach that performance. Why should notebooks get better performance/watt than desktops when they are thermal limited?

I`d imagine we see 7850 performance out of this GPU, perhaps a little lower. 7850 scores P5000 GPU score in 3DMark11. I`d imagine 4500-5000 in 3DMark11 for 7970M which is great

 

Because they're binned higher? As long as the card isn't throttling, performance should scale pretty much linearly with frequency.

 

It's called core binning, they will use the leanest chips for these cards, there will likely be a lot of variation in the process at the moment.

I'd expect a 3dmark 11 score of 5300.

 

You forget that the 7870, thanks to it's voltage headroom, can be overclocked way past the Ghz of speed. Such a speed won't be stable with the mobile version if undervolted.

580m is alreay 100w, that doesn't stop overvoltage, overclocking etc which obviously means it has a higher TDP. TDP is dynamic and not a set figure. The number is just for design.

If you undervolt a GPU to be stable at a max speed like 850mhz, it will significantly reduce its TDP, but won't be much more stable at higher clockspeeds.

If we have exact hardware between the mobile and desktop counterparts, then we expect similar performance. How do you think an HD5770 and an HD5870m perform? When overclocked to the same speeds, we get the same performance level.

Why would you have nearly a 35% hit in performance from a 15% downclock? there would have to be many other sacrifices in its hardware to ensure such a huge hit in performance. The HD7850 has other sacrifices besides downclock and voltage change. As Meaker said, it's all about balance.

When the 580m is overclocked near 560ti levels, we get 560ti levels of performance, and that is not a 100w card.

 

Considering the same memory speed between the two, the variation in performance will be 10-15% IMO.

 

Where are you guys getting this information? Link?

 

where? Dell..

 

I'd like to point out the 675M is more expensive.... LOL.

 

yeah I think that's a mistake, dell is famous for doing this kinda stuff..

 

Oh cool.

What confuses me about that chart is the 660M being 75W compared to the 650M's 45W. Bumping up the clock from the 650 cost it 30 watts?!?

If the 660M really is 75W I might as well just pull the trigger on a 670M, or go for the 650M if I want less heat/noise. 660M seems pointless.

 

Also note the memory clocks are going from 1000mhz to 1250mhz:

Help Me Choose: Video Cards | Dell

That's a big difference.

 

their loss our gain

 

They still refuse to give the AMD cards a 120hz screen :/

 

Still, 66% more power for this clock bump over the 650M seems like it's pushing the GK107 core well beyond it's sweet spot into diminished returns territory. Think how much better a 570M core process shrunk to 28nm would be. I'm sorta disappointed. Now I see why so many announced gaming laptops have the 670M.

 

The 7970M being +$200 from the 660M places its price right around where the 6970M launched; in the P170HM, the latter was a +$245 upgrade over the 460M.

Thus it should slot in around $550, aftermarket.

 

So let me get this straight:

You guys are suggesting this about the 7970M:
7970M 3DMark GPU score of 5300
6990M got a 3DMark11 GPU score of 3238.
Benchmarks score increase: 63.6%

6870 got a 3DMark11 GPU score of 4423.
7870 got a 3DMark11 GPU score of 6125
Benchmark score increase: 38.5%

For real?

 

Why do you even care about benchmarks of an unreleased card that can't be proven legit.
Although the 7870M is clocked 19% faster (core) than the 6990M while the 7870 is clocked just 11% higher than the 6870. That could explain part of the difference.

Whatever. As others previously explained there should be no difference between a 1ghz 7870M and a 7870 if it doesn't throttle. It's one thing that it sounds crazy to you, but I believe you're just bitter that it might be real, for some obscure reason.

 

And where did you get the 3DMark scores from? If Dell's info about the 7970m and your 7870 3Dmark score is correct, then yeah, it should score around 5200.

You have to realize that the 6990m was downclocked more than the 7970m and that the 6990m had its memory downclocked while the 7970m has the same memory frequency as the 7870 as well.

So given that the 7970m has a 85% of the core speed than the 7870, it should perform 85% as well as the 7870, worst case scenario, and .85*6125=~5200. In a better case, the 7870 is memory constrained so the 7970m performs even closer.

 

Cloudfire, 28nm and 40nm will have different power/voltage curves.

 

Bitter? Nah, I think you people are only pawing a way to disappointments the way you guys are dreaming about this GPU. I would love to be wrong though

I don`t think the 150MHz core difference is the only thing separating 7970M and 7870. You`ll still lose performance due to the undervolting required to keep the 7970M inside the thermal envelope AMD is struggling for.

My point was, should there really be so totally different curves between mobile vs mobile and desktop vs desktop? Shouldn`t they behave almost the same? There are 25% difference between the two

 

The GDDR5 will also be underclocked, most likely. But if you got the 7970M to the same clocks as a 7870, it would perform identically in theory. A 1GHz 7870 at stock voltage and an undervolted 7870 at 1GHz perform exactly the same, and in that principle, a 7970M at 7870 clocks will be the same as a 7870, regardless of voltages.

 

Where are you getting these numbers? I'm see the 6870 at stock gets closer to 4100 while the stock 7870 gets around 6600. Also, the 6990M was unclocked 20% while the 7970M is only 15%.

 

Voltage doesn't affect performance, just stability. Since there's no Nvida-esque turbo boost, how would the thermal envelope affect performance..?

Actually, the memory clocks are the same, according to the Dell specs anyway. The 6970m and 6870 both have 256-bit DDR5 at 1200mhz, so the only difference will be the core clocks..

 

Sigh, the 6870 score is wrong. I posted the P score, not the PGPU. Sorry. It is 4138.
7870 score is correct. You must be looking at P score.
AMD Radeon HD 7870 2GB and HD 7850 2GB Pitcairn Review | 3DMark11

That makes the difference between 6870 and 7870, 48%. That makes the desktop/mobile difference 15%. Still too much

I will look in to the undervolting and performance. I remember that it do affect performance. Maybe I remember wrong. We`ll see

 

Well your line of reasoning is flawed to begin with, so it doesn't matter what the difference between performances are. The mobile cards are not downclocked by the same %, as many have explained.

The 6990m has 80% of the core clock of the 6870 (715mhz vs 900mhz). So 4100*.80=~3200, which works out with the 3dmark scores that you provided. (4138 vs 3238)

The 7970m has 85% of the core clock of the 7870 (850mhz vs 1000mhz). So 6100*.85 = ~5200. Which is what people were expecting.

I don't see why it's so unreasonable?

 

I understand what you are saying and spec wise comparison seems solid, I just can`t fathom such an increase over the 6990M. Thats why. Call me stubborn

 

Well, that's assuming the the specs are correct. So there's still room to be a skeptic.

 

Is there a chance Dell have quoted wrong specs?
The great Clevo reseller from Asia is stuck with his 70W prediction of 7970M. He get to test the GPU in May. He is not an unkown. He have basicly tested all 600 series GPUs before anyone else.
I think its strange that AMD jump right on 100W and doesn`t leave any room for 7990M...

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I think that's quite possible. It seems too good to be true that it's so cheap with that kind of performance.

But then again, it would be extremely stupid of Dell to be offering the 7970M with wrong specs.

 

In what way is it "cheap"?

How much more should AMD charge, when a rough estimate can say that they're charging a ~$250 premium per card, over what the reference 7870 retails for currently? Desktop users pay less than $350 for this performance.

I think we've grown too used to Nvidia pricing schemes, if this seems too low. It only looks cheap because it's priced next to the GTX 675M (the GTX 580M from Dell retails for over $800 USD, does it not?). Even at a rebranded price drop, it's ridiculous.

 

That's what I mean. I know it's much more expensive than the desktop parts, but we always pay a lot more for the same performance in laptops, and I don't think that's ever going to change.

To see a (what looks to be) significantly more powerful GPU being priced significantly less than the competition is surprising. It could be priced the same or even a little more than the 675M, and I would buy it just the same.

 

That's what Kevin means. AMD has recently had cheaper GPU prices for similar performance. HD4000-6000 series were a testament of this.

675m being a rebrand of a 580m, and being so expensive is not "normal". AMD can price according to their own products too. Their previous high end card was cheaper than Nvidias while performing similarly. Maybe the new 7970m is going to try and make the market of "high end" much more interesting.

In the end cheaper prices and competition is good.

 

Amd dont have the same luxary on mobile vs desktop, they need design wins so that forces their price down even with good performance.

 

6970M vs GTX 480M

One of these is $940, and the other is $490. Or remember 5870M vs GTX 280M? The former was $350, the latter over $600.

Point being, AMD's top GPU of new generation has almost always blown away Nvidia's previous flagship, at a much lower price.

This is just the pattern repeating, on an even more absurd level.

 

The parts will debut on April 24, and will be a part of onslaught with NVIDIA Kepler GPUs to win as much notebook discrete design wins as possible. AMD has an advantage over NVIDIA with a record number of Trinity APU and Trinity APU+Lombok GPU design wins. However, NVIDIA won over a large number of Ivy Bridge+Kepler design wins, meaning that the battle will be as tough in 2012 as it was in 2011.

Read more: AMD Radeon HD 7970M to Launch on April 24 by VR-Zone.com

 

Pitcairn (HD 7800 on desktop) is becoming HD 7900M Series, codenamed Thames. Cape Verde (HD 7700) got renamed as Lombok (HD 7800M). Naturally, the Trinity APU will cause a lot of changes, occupying the Radeon 7600M and 7700M series.

Read more: AMD Radeon HD 7970M to Launch on April 24 by VR-Zone.com

 

That's nice. Might as well make the 7870M a full-blown translation of the 7770.

 

what are the 77xxms gonna be based on then

 

Downclocked HD7750 I suppose.