ATI 5000HD details leak -UPDATED

GTX 295 and HD 4870X2 are already ahead of all of today's generation's games, it's only Crysis that's the last holdout (To some degree S.T.A.L.K.E.R. also), everything else runs 1920x1200 with max AA/AF. GT300 and the 5870X2 will be way beyond what next generation games will stress. Factor in what i7 and Phenom II are doing and hardware is outpacing software at this point, at least in the gaming sector.

 

Thats very good. At least we won't have to go out and spend big $$$ on the best, just to run an average game at a decent fps.

Also, I just read the tweaktown review for the new 9.9 drivers, they had a mention of the HD5800 series

 

Nvidia allegedly blocked some of the features that were supposed to be in DX10 by telling Microsoft that their cards wouldn't support them....so DX11 isn't just a streamlined version of DX10.1 it's the full reintroduction of those features that were cut from DX10.


ATI's GPUs have had dedicated hardware on their GPU ready to support the features in DX11 since back when they were originally planned in DX10....while it looks like (from what little info there is on the G300 architecture) Nvidia plans to use software to run those features through their card's general purpose cores.

 

Supposedly, NVIDIA's 300 series will support DX11 too, how, I cant tell...I honestly dont know. But I am certain that DX11 in ATI has been for quite some time. I remember checking a video on youtube of DX11 back in March, and it was fully functional.

5000HD series will be DX11 standard, DX10.1 and DX10 capable and DX9 capable too (I think so..). To answer the question above DX11, it is completely new coding. It is not as DX10.1 which gave some minor tweaks to DX10, DX11 is different, as in it uses the graphic cores for more stuff, helping unload the CPU, and some other techniques on graphic, but I cant recall how they were called, my apologies.

 

43 FPS in Crysis at 1920 x 1200 with 4x AA and 16x AF on just one 5870? Not too shabby.

 

Do you have Crysis?
Max it out on your Sager, with 4AA and 16AF in WUXGA. How many FPS do you get?

 

10-15 I'm sure. If the mobile 5870 can manage 30, it would be a big success in my book.

 

According to where I got the info, the mobile architecture is the same as the desktop architecture, with a slight downclock, to get lower temps and less consumption, but basicaly the same (not like the GTX280 and the GTX280, or I should call it 8800M GTX??? )
It is impressive really how fast GPUs are going nowadays, and how games are getting behind lol

Oh something else, note how important mobile world has become, to the point that the same GPUs are being used, and they are most likely to launch together (I even heard the mobile versions were coming before the desktop ones)

 

The mere fact the 5870 is still 256 bit makes evident that the mobile segment is taking priority over desktops. AMD wouldn't waste the R&D like Nvidia had with GT200 only to produce desktop GPU's.

 

One thing is certain, mobile hardware is getting more prevalence than desktops, after all, we all want to carry around a computer...lol

I heard something that made me curious the other day, NVIDIA codes their GPUs to get higher benchmarks, while ATI focuses on performance, and that is why in benchmarks the mobile 4870HD is below the GTX260M, but in real life performance the 4870HD is on par with GTX280M. I wonder if this stands true or not.

 

The main reason for AMD going with 256 bit over 512 bit memory interface is to keep the die size small, resulting in lower production cost and being able to get more dies from a sheet.

 

256bit+GDDR5=roughly 512bit
512bit+GDDR5 seems useless and too expensive, and no software would stress the GPU that much so that you use the full bandwidth.

 

Exactly. AMD has already proven with the HD 4800 series that 256 bit + GDDR5 can compete with 512 bit + GDDR3. In the end, it's the total bandwidth that counts.

 

Not really true, it's usually the other way around. The GTX 280 performs better than the 4870 in most cases, but it's more because of nVidia's dominance in general. They have more to put in R & D and have their TWIMTBP program that influences developers to optimize their games for nVidia cards.

However in more recent games, the average difference in performance between a GTX 280 and the 4870 is decreasing, due to ATi doing something similar.

 

The 5870 will legitimize mobile gaming in a way I never imagined. If the desktop version can compete with the GTX 295, the mobile version should at least compete with the desktop GTX 280. At 60w, it could end up in a 15" Clevo notebook, seeing as how my current GTX 260M takes up 65w.

 

Interesting how low the power is and how high the performance. I wonder where this will be most used, and if we are likely to finally see thin and light and powerful laptops!!!

 

the question is to known when it's going to be released. we all known that mobile versions of the GPU's take at least 6months (and I'm being optimist) after the desktop ones.

so it will not legitimize mobile gaming. it will be just like the previous 3xxx and 4xxx series.

 

ATI is planning on releasing them very closely together.
I hope at the same time, but mobile chips are coming as fast as desktop's.
I would say by the end of the year to have some equipped with these babies inside.

 

ATI stated that they would release the 3xxx series very closely together too... ofc it didn't happened... and don't forget that the 4xxx series were released a few time ago...
but I have some hopes... it would be awesome

 

Seems like ATI is giving Nvidia a run for their money. I love competition

 

5 series would be for me the right moment to upgrade my dell..looking forward to it!

 

If they turn out to come out together but the end of September/beginning October, they will ship somewhere near Jan 2010 (on time for ThinkPad refresh...drool).

Oh please ATI, dont screw it! I want a 5650HD as a minimum.

On a side note, has anyone heard of mobile professional versions of these ones?

 

I am <strike>bumping</strike> bringing this thread back, so that more people can read about these great news.
ATI 5000HD series coming out in a matter of a month, in theory.

 

Mobility 4830 and 4860 were announced in March. Still hasn't been released, looks like the first laptop with 4830 will be the upcoming HP thing with i7. 4860 is nowhere to be seen.

Don't hold your breath waiting for 5000 series cards in laptops, especially the high-end ones. They will come for sure, but probably not for quite a while.

 

No. Only 10 models coming out according to those news.
In order of performance:
5870 (256bw GDDR5)
5850 (256bw GDDR5)
5830 (256bw GDDR3)
5770 (128bw GDDR5)
5750 (128bw GDDR3)
5730 (128bw GDDR3)
5650 (128bw GDDR3)
5470 (64bw GDDR3)
5450 (64bw GDDR3)
5430 (64bw GDDR3/DDR2)
That is IIRC.

Indeed the HP E15 is getting a 4830HD as leaks everywhere suggest. And the 5000 series are due to October/November...

 

The Dell Precision M6400 is the only laptop that I know that has the HD 4860 (workstation variant, FirePro M7740) in it. The 5xxx series probably won't surface in notebooks until mid 2010 (revised Calpella laptops).

 

Professional variants of the 4000HD series are very limited.
The M7740 is one, but I thought it was based on the 4770HD, due to the 128bit bandwidth and the 1GB DDR5...

 

HD 4770 is a desktop card and it is what the Mobility HD 4860 and FirePro M7740 are based on.

 

Seems like ATI is turning the tide again.
I wonder what would be the specs for ATI's professional graphic cards (Radeon counterparts)

 

HBQ, have you heard anything on upcoming FireGL or FirePro GPUs based on 5000HD?

This could be interesting, and considering there were very few with the 4000HD, it should be time for an update.

 

Well, supposedly the high-end mobile DX11 Broadway chips start shipping in November and should start appearing in notebooks soon after.

 

Looks like ATI surely can pack some powerful punches, bad for Nvidia, good for us.

 

http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/9/198_87341.html

some pics about the hd5870 desktop.

 

Usually ATi's mobile chips are around 20% slower than its desktop derivative. If this remains the case, there would be pretty much no need for multi-GPU scaling for notebooks anymore (other than benchmarking) as it would probably be faster than a desktop GTX 285.

That said, it's probably going to bring up the prices of notebooks again now that ATi will further dominate the market. They're already planning to add a $100 premium to the desktop 5870 (normally in competitive conditions, it would sell for $299 rather than $399) and nVidia isn't going to offer anything competitive in the highend anytime soon. They could counter ATi's performance range though (HD 56xx) with a revamped DX11 compliant G92b core shrunk to 40nm that uses GDDR5 memory.

 

What is the ATI notebook driver suport like ? nVidia provide laptop drivers and we have customised laptopvideo2go drivers. Is there anything similar for ATI ?

 

ATI is now providing fully "mobilized" drivers for Windows 7 which I've been installing since January without any flaws. If you're still on XP or Vista, you'll still need to use the Mobility Modder.

 

You won't see these until 2010, as ATI will focus on the desktop blitzkrieg through the holiday season.

Maybe mid-range or two will slip out, but the high-end is mos def on for next year.

 

I especially liked this part of the post. Are they biased? lol

But ATI mobile architecture is the same as desktop, just slightly downclocked, on the other hand NVIDIA is revamping their old 8 series over and over again, and charging as new technology...lol

DX11 is a win by itself, 20% better performance and 40% less consumption (or 40-20%) is another win, and so on...

 

Don't being a parrot. This is no longer the case.

 

When the 40-nm GPUs were announced ASUS already had a notebook planned to utilize the 4860 but because of production problems and all the working RV740 GPUs went into making the desktop 4770 instead.

TSMC may very well screw up the 5000 series as well but they're claiming that they've worked out the kinks in the 40-nm process...HP using the 4830 in the Envy 15 may be a sign that it has been worked out.

 

Has Nvidia confirmed that the mobile 300m parts will be using the new 300 architecture? I haven't seen anything to say for sure that they won't be rebranding old tech for mobile cards again....this time the refined 40-nm G200 GPUs.

The 300m parts listed in the latest Nvidia drivers use model numbers that are very similar to their recently released 40-nm 200m GPUs. The highest model listed is a GTS 360m and there's no match up for the GTX 260m or GTX 280m.

 

Yes this is accurate that model was the Asus K series. Which is out now but doesn't have anything near the 4860

 

I really like to see ATI HD5XXX hi-end mobile products in Christmas shopping season. I replace my MBP twice because of the poor nVIDIA chips.

I'm thinking about buying Alianware with ATI Graphics.

 

I'd be surprised if 300M isn't based off of 40nm G200 cores.

These are the unaccounted for chips, via the latest NV inf:

NVIDIA_DEV.0CA9.01 = "NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250M"
NVIDIA_DEV.0CA8.01 = "NVIDIA GeForce GTS 260M"
NVIDIA_DEV.0A2B.01 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M "
NVIDIA_DEV.0CAF.01 = "NVIDIA GeForce GT 335M"
NVIDIA_DEV.0CB0.01 = "NVIDIA GeForce GTS 350M"
NVIDIA_DEV.0CB1.01 = "NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M"

The Device IDs are very similar.

 

But wasnt the 300 series completely new technology??!?!?!?!?
They are (again) rebranding something that already exists! Most likely GT200s with DX11 capability and prices as new ones...

ATI is claiming new architecture and that the 5000HD desktop=5000HD notebook-slight downclock

 

300 series will be new architecture but there's nothing to say whether or not that new tech will be used on mobile GPUs right away. Nvidia's track record has shown that they do not use their same desktop tech in their notebook GPUs and that they like to get as much use out of their existing tech as possible. That tends to lead to the idea that the mobile 300 parts will be based off the older G200 architecture that has just recently made it into notebook computers after being shrunk to 40-nm.


ATI on the other hand has used their desktop GPUs in their mobile parts since the 3000 series cards and are continuing that trend in the 5000 series, The 5000 series isn't however new tech. It is still based on the 4000 series architecture but the die shrink has allowed them to nearly double the shaders and pump more power into the GPU to increase performance.

ATI didn't need to come out with new architecture because their GPUs were designed well enough to take the die shrink to 40-nm and were already setup with dedicated hardware to handle DX11 since back in 2006.

Nvidia had to come out with the G300 GPUs because there G200 cards didn't take well to the die shrink to 40-nm (they barely made the shrink from 65-nm to 55-nm). Attempts to shrink the two best versions of the G200 architecture were even scrapped entirely because it couldn't be done. If Nvidia had better luck shrinking their G200 dies then it's a good bet you wouldn't be seeing G300 architecture being developed for at least another year.


There are still reports that Nvidia is working on another "refined" 40-nm G200 part, the G215 which I'd guess will be the 300 series replacement for the GTX 260m and GTX 280m.

 

Nice post. I agree completely.

 

jaredpace at xtremesystems is keeping a raw dump of the AMD HD5000 hearsay and rumors he collects at
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3967152&postcount=174
Here is an excerpt:
"
Manhattan (mobile version of Evergreen Family) line-up:
Broadway XT -> HD5870 GDDR5 45W-60W
Broadway Pro -> HD5850 GDDR5 30W-40W
Broadway LP -> HD5830 (G) DDR3 29W 128bit
Madison Pro (or XT .. not sure) -> HD5750 GDDR5 20-30W
Madison XT (or Pro .... not sure) -> HD5730 (G) DDR3/GDDR5 20-25W
Madison LP / Pro -> HD5650 (G) DDR3 15-20W 128-bit
Park XT -> HD5470 GDDR5 12-15W
Park Pro -> HD5450 (G) DDR3 10-12W
Park LP -> HD5430 (G) DDR3 <8W
"


The chip packages are supposed to have the same pin-out as the the 4000 series.

 

32nm intel + HD5850 40w = My next laptop (provided the price isn't outrageous)

 

big assumption dude. if ati really starts to dominate the gpu market, you can be sure they'll up the prices. remember what nvidia did with the 8800gtx.